Where Are The Before And Afters In This , Peat World"?

[corvetteseeker]

Thanks, Jib, for all that insight. I'll be tinkering according to your suggestions.

 

[corvetteseeker]

I use an oral thermometer. It seems to be a pretty good gauge of my metabolism.

Roger that, I'll give that a shot, thanks.

 

[CLASH]

I think waking pulse and temps may be good indicators of metabolism if assessed properly but who here has attained these ideal pulses and temps? If you are overweight with a gut (not subcutaneous stores) or severely overweight in general I would venture to guess you have a metabolic issue. I don't think any amount of rationalization is going to solve the problem. I think only experimentation will solve the problem and I think its helpful to divorce experimentation from dogmatic beliefs. I also think making blanket statements is a bad idea, especially if there are no real world results behind those blanket statements.

@corvetteseeker
glad to hear you lost some weight man. Any other changes? what has your diet been like?

 

[EIRE24]

I think waking pulse and temps may be good indicators of metabolism if assessed properly but who here has attained these ideal pulses and temps? If you are overweight with a gut (not subcutaneous stores) or severely overweight in general I would venture to guess you have a metabolic issue. I don't think any amount of rationalization is going to solve the problem. I think only experimentation will solve the problem and I think its helpful to divorce experimentation from dogmatic beliefs. I also think making blanket statements is a bad idea, especially if there are no real world results behind those blanket statements.

@corvetteseeker
glad to hear you lost some weight man. Any other changes? what has your diet been like?

Hi Clash,

Do you take thyroid supplementation?

 

[CLASH]

@EIRE24
No sir I do not. I only take vitamins and minerals, and some aspirin, progesterone (1mg at most) and some DHEA with the progesterone (1mg at most) on a weekly basis. Maybe 1-2x per week. Aspirin I use more sparingly.

 

[EIRE24]

@EIRE24
No sir I do not. I only take vitamins and minerals, and some aspirin, progesterone (1mg at most) and some DHEA with the progesterone (1mg at most) on a weekly basis. Maybe 1-2x per week. Aspirin I use more sparingly.

Thanks for the reply. I am guessing you've never taken thyroid at all then?

 

[CLASH]

@EIRE24
I have. I have used T3 and glandular, well i should say I tried them. T3 made me hyper, and if I took too much it would put me to sleep (i’d sleep like a baby tho lol). Glandular was less pronounced, overtime made me too hyper. I felt like i had too much energy and didnt know what to do with myself.

 

[corvetteseeker]

@corvetteseeker
glad to hear you lost some weight man. Any other changes? what has your diet been like?

Thanks so much for checking in on me, man.

I've been mostly eating beef, gelatin or cottage cheese (was trying it out, I think I do ok with it; the cost is the biggest issue).
Fruit and fruit juice mainly from carbs. But just to cut back on cost (and for convenience), I have been gravitating more
to juice, and some coconut milk and a sugar soda just about every day.

For the longest time, I've had frequent urination and this had made it worse so now I am rethinking these drinks.

The last couple of days I have loaded my coffee with maple syrup and coconut milk as a spin off of what @Runenight201
was mentioning in a different thread and I have experienced the greatest energy and decreased anxiety of any protocol when doing this.

For fat, I rely mainly on MCT oil w/ occasional coconut oil, cacao butter and a few eggs/week.
The fat often ends up at 100 grams/day, sometimes more, so it's not a small amount.

I've even had beer (gasp, I know) three nights in the last week without weight gain. And these are high calorie craft beers, too.
I do realize this is not optimal.

Anyhow, in the last week and a half since dropping all dairy fat not from cottage cheese or occasional feta
and since adding coconut/MCT oil, I have ** SMALL SAMPLE SIZE ALERT ** dropped from 183 to 179.4.

I am 5' 8" and sedentary and traditionally have maintained calories on 2500, many times even less.

Since adopting this WOE, I have been losing weight on about 3,600 cals/day. This is all very promising so far
and thank you so much for all your advice. The main things that I need to come around still are my sleep
(urination from all the fluids has a big effect) and libido.

To be continued ...

 

[CLASH]

@corvetteseeker
No worries.

How much of each of the fats have you been eating in grams? How many grams cocoa butter?

Before I drank juice, i used to drink sodas as well. When I was doing that I was peeing a ton. I only drink about 48-64oz of fluids a day not, all from juice. I do urinate but not quite that much.

 

[corvetteseeker]

42 grams of MCT or coconut oil usually (3 tbsp) is the baseline.

I made some homemade chocolate with cocoa, cacao butter and maple syrup which was amazing.
On the two days I ate this, I was having 52 grams of cacao butter/day plys probably about 30 grams of the coconut oil.

I want to have this chocolate around more consistently otherwise I find it tough choking down these butter pellets, haha

I didn't seem to have any issues with the chocolate from a weight perspective.

Just to add, another big change I made just before the weight started coming off was to cut out the bananas. (seratonin)

 

[Cirion]

I think waking pulse and temps may be good indicators of metabolism if assessed properly but who here has attained these ideal pulses and temps? If you are overweight with a gut (not subcutaneous stores) or severely overweight in general I would venture to guess you have a metabolic issue. I don't think any amount of rationalization is going to solve the problem. I think only experimentation will solve the problem and I think its helpful to divorce experimentation from dogmatic beliefs. I also think making blanket statements is a bad idea, especially if there are no real world results behind those blanket statements.

Actually, you're saying precisely what I'm saying. But the increased fats absolutely aren't helpful, for example last night I had a pound of beef and today have one of the worst waking temps i have had in a while (97.7F) whereas going vegan frequently can get me 98.3F+ waking temps. But, that's just me. If eating a ton of fats gets someone to 98.6F temps, I certainly am not going to stop them, as that is my ultimate suggestion. Really, no skin off my back how someone achieves the ideal temps and pulses as that's actually what my recommendation ultimately is.

 

[thomas00]

I only see complex theories here...
It goes super deep...
But does it work in practice?

The results are just more and more endless theories, more complex ,,individual problems" and people getting fatter, staying the same, or whatever... long years of talking and supplementing...

People who have some succes, are having if because of some super individual way that worked for them and not because of anything that could be ,, a peat way" or a general rule (like on keto, dont eat carbs and 95% of people have results (good or bad) but something happends and you have nowdays milions before and after photos from them, and it starts working fast... I asked this before, this forum takes so much of my energy and nothing trully works... and what works is not at all from this forum or peat... like NO COFFEE, taking iron, taking whey, not eating dairy, skiping meals, not to much salt and so on... all of that fixed me somewhat, but i cant say its from a peat diet or even a peat principle... this forum has not one general way at all, i get nothing here, always just 5 ,,oposite" advices... thats like no advice at all... and the peaty ones never work... many claim a lot of things and after a few months they swear different things... and so on... where is your proof that this is trully working?

I know its not everything about weightloss, but getting fater is 100% NOT IT! No before and after here, no proves, just high end bla bla

Sorry 4 the rant, i like many of you... :) its not like youre bad people, its the oposite, super smart and nice people, but i think the forum is to much bla bla and its not that helpful in practice/in real life, but nice theories

Certainly some valid criticisms there Dino. There are people who have gotten better however.


From what I can tell many people don't focus on the fundamental idea Ray has advanced for treating disease: raising the metabolic rate. The thyroid forums are the most bare yet it's basically the cornerstone to Ray's approach.

Some of the reasons for this inattention are, as far as I can tell, fear of taking hormones, not really understanding how to raise the metabolism or measure it, Ray having lots of writings about thyroid spread out all over the place and not one concise article about it (I don't even know if that would be possible to do), a forum with far too many subforums in it which leads to a loss of context and health symptoms being treated as their own problems rather than the product of a more central malfunction.

Ray's ideas can be heavy going and it is not easy when you are very unwell. I've had to learn through making mistakes, for the most part. It's also hard to break out of certain thinking and go against the grain when you've had many doctors tell you that your bloodwork says your thyroid is fine, so I understand the reluctance.

Learning to measure the metabolic rate and increasing it through diet and thyroid if it is low seems to me like it should be the first thing to do yet it doesn't seem the approach most people take. People seem to get very caught up in diet composition or taking amino acids etc. Some even drift into foolishness like Chinese folk medicine. I can't help but wonder if the influence of people with dietitian jobs who spruik Peat have played a role in that. Their job means they can't recommend pharmaceuticals and hormones without getting into trouble so they just focus on foods and give a totally false impression that people's health problems can be fixed with diet. Not good.

And I just read a thread on here about people drinking their own urine.......

 

[kyle]

Why would you eat a pound of beef before bed, bro,?

 

[kyle]

I think op is going through the realization he has to use his own brain.

People like the instagram models who sell some lame fitness plan and some wonked out diet bcuz its easy.

Yeah its one part authoritarian, "give me a protocol, please." One part being lazy.

Well, its all make up, plastic surgery, camera angles and steroid abuse and a big heaping pile of narcissism.

Realize this forum is not your freind. I sometimes wonder if anypoe actually reads or listens to Peat. Its a morbid fascination for me to see people rubbing hormones on their ballsack and eating straight up sugar and a fistfull of pills and then wondering whats wrong when they crash.

On the other hand, great information can be found here. Stuff is often wrong here but even then its often LESS wrong than the usual.

But in that sense its just like real life. People come to the table with their own set of ideas and beliefs. Its just american culture and the internet dragoons people into little islands of madness.

But God is merciful so you can always learn something new.

So maybe the problem isnt this forum, but your own attitude. Its deeper than this forum, this is just true of life.

Or let me be more specific. This is true of real science - as soon as you take something here as true, you cease to be a scientist and become an adherent. You stop asking questions.

All this is more or less just perspective on the internet, science and people in general. Sorry if it isnt comforting but this is really what is going on here.

But the problem is possibly you. In fact, as much as any system tries to establish doctrines, the cracks form. Peat is at least conscious of that and so, at least in theory, is more valuable.

 

[Gone Peating]

My quality of mental and physical well being has improved enormously since implementing a Peat inspired diet a year ago

 

[PurpleHeart]

Personally i think That Ray peat is a brilliant doctor with lots of knowledge but i think that he fell in the trap of absolution
We live in a dual universe that relies on balance you cannot expect to lean on one side only and be able to survive even if it works in theory our bodies adapted to practice not theory.

My personal opinion is that eating refined sugar is the worst advice because it doesnt's contain any nutrition and you need minerals and vitamins to metabolise it
so by eating refined sources of energy you cause nutritional deficiencies
eating a couple of teaspoons is not likely to cause a problem but i wouldn't go crazy with the stuff.


Also the problem here is that many people misinterpret what Ray peat says for example when Ray says that sugar and coca cola is not bad he uses it as an example
for you to understand the mechanism of glucose oxidation and avoid the naturalistic fallacy of eating seeds for example because they are "natural"
He never said that sugar and cola are optimal he just said that they are not as bad as people think they are just because they are not "natural"

But you see idiots over here drinking liters and liters of cola and adding a shitload of refined sugar to anything they eat and expect it to work even though this doesn't make any sense and Ray peat himself never said it would work.

Also many People here drink lots of full fat milk which is another thing that Ray never suggested.

Ray will say eat some coconut oil because saturated fats are protective and help metabolism and some idiot on this forum will start eating 30 coconuts a day and harm himself and then blame ray peat for it.

Also to my knowledge ray peat never advised anyone to take ANY supplement except some vitamin E and you see people on this forum taking 20 different supplements every single ******* day.

Ray advises against isolated amino acids and people on this forum take them.

Ray says look at foods as a whole picture and people obsess about specific aspects.

Ray says avoid authoritarian mindsets and think for yourself and some people on this forum are fanatic zealots.

I can go on and on but i think you get the point

There is no such thing as a Ray peat diet Ray peat is a scientist not a diet guru

Also we are not here to prove anything to anyone if the knowledge of this forum doesn't help you personally then just don't use it.

And don't take everything anyone on this forum says for granted most people on this forum are lunatic biohackers not that this is a bad thing at all.

Do your own reasearch and decide for yourself.

 

[Cirion]

From what I can tell many people don't focus on the fundamental idea Ray has advanced for treating disease: raising the metabolic rate.

not really understanding how to raise the metabolism or measure it,


Learning to measure the metabolic rate and increasing it through diet and thyroid if it is low seems to me like it should be the first thing to do yet it doesn't seem the approach most people take.

This +1000

I started tracking Temp, Pulse, Mood, Weight change etc... I have a separate thread where I have posted some findings. I never would have fleshed out some of my discoveries otherwise.

ex: Today I just took a bunch of 7-day rolling average of Pulse, Temp, Weight loss, Protein/Carb/Fats intake and found that with average of 123 gram protein, 1000 gram carb and 28 gram fat had an average (7 days in a row, so not a one-off "lucky" thing) 98.3F waking temp, 83 bpm pulse, -0.37 lb a day. I've not yet got 98.6F , 85 bpm for 7 days average but I'm very close. That's just 0.3F and 2 bpm off.

Why would you eat a pound of beef before bed, bro,?

Sigh, because I keep thinking I am hungry and that I "need" meat. But my above realization proves to me that more than 125 gram protein makes me fat and lethargic. Yesterday had like 188 gram. Way too much.

 

[MatheusPN]

Personally i think That Ray peat is a brilliant doctor with lots of knowledge but i think that he fell in the trap of absolution
We live in a dual universe that relies on balance you cannot expect to lean on one side only and be able to survive even if it works in theory our bodies adapted to practice not theory.

My personal opinion is that eating refined sugar is the worst advice because it doesnt's contain any nutrition and you need minerals and vitamins to metabolise it
so by eating refined sources of energy you cause nutritional deficiencies
eating a couple of teaspoons is not likely to cause a problem but i wouldn't go crazy with the stuff.


Also the problem here is that many people misinterpret what Ray peat says for example when Ray says that sugar and coca cola is not bad he uses it as an example
for you to understand the mechanism of glucose oxidation and avoid the naturalistic fallacy of eating seeds for example because they are "natural"
He never said that sugar and cola are optimal he just said that they are not as bad as people think they are just because they are not "natural"

But you see idiots over here drinking liters and liters of cola and adding a shitload of refined sugar to anything they eat and expect it to work even though this doesn't make any sense and Ray peat himself never said it would work.

Also many People here drink lots of full fat milk which is another thing that Ray never suggested.

Ray will say eat some coconut oil because saturated fats are protective and help metabolism and some idiot on this forum will start eating 30 coconuts a day and harm himself and then blame ray peat for it.

Also to my knowledge ray peat never advised anyone to take ANY supplement except some vitamin E and you see people on this forum taking 20 different supplements every single ******* day.

Ray advises against isolated amino acids and people on this forum take them.

Ray says look at foods as a whole picture and people obsess about specific aspects.

Ray says avoid authoritarian mindsets and think for yourself and some people on this forum are fanatic zealots.

I can go on and on but i think you get the point

There is no such thing as a Ray peat diet Ray peat is a scientist not a diet guru

Also we are not here to prove anything to anyone if the knowledge of this forum doesn't help you personally then just don't use it.

And don't take everything anyone on this forum says for granted most people on this forum are lunatic biohackers not that this is a bad thing at all.

Do your own reasearch and decide for yourself.

Are you saying that Peat don't aspire the optimal, that Peat just lean to one side? That he relies only in theory, not also in practice? Why you think he fell in the trap of, absolution (probably you mean absolutism)?
Eating refined sugar is a very good advice, if you know how to use it, even better he explain! Also sometimes he says sugar but mean fruit. Refined sugar contain nutrition
Ray uses/ used supplements and hormones. And already said that supplementation of hormones or vitamins can be a good thing

 

[PurpleHeart]

Are you saying that Peat don't aspire the optimal, that Peat just lean to one side? That he relies only in theory, not also in practice? Why you think he fell in the trap of absolution?
Eating refined sugar is a very good advice, if you know how to use it, also sometimes he says sugar but mean fruit
Ray uses/ used supplements and hormones. And already said that supplementation of hormones or vitamins can be a good thing

What i am saying is that most people do not really follow or fully understand what Ray says like you said eating refined sugar is a good advice IF you know how to use it most people here don't.

Supplemental hormones and vitamins CAN be a good thing which means that under certain conditions it can be usefull but you see people on this forum slamming pregnenolone and progesterone like its candy for no apparent reason whatsoever.

Also Ray peat is not an all knowing god he is just a man like all of us and he can just be wrong about some things which is something that most people on this forum never consider.

Another problem with this forum is some people deify people like haidut but haidut despite all his knowledge is neither Ray peat nor a doctor.

And yes i do believe that Ray's logic about boosting metabolism indefinitely is false nature doesn't work like that in my opinion nature is a balanced ecosystem of unity.

If nature worked in an indefinite improvement manner we would all have skin made from steel and shoot lasers from our eyes and regrow limbs and be immortal.

 

[Vinny]

but i think the forum is to much bla bla and its not that helpful in practice/in real life, but nice theories

I have to totally disagree with you.
Yes, from one perspective, diamonds are rare and hard to get.... but if you did, you become rich for life.
This (this forum) is the only hope we have, unless you`re married for a doctor or a scientist with 20 years of experience and extremely open minded. I doubt, however...
Here you can see how folks experiment and what works, or not.
Here you are given, for free, digested scientific research (I, for example, don`t have the brains, neither the energy, to dive into it) and I`ll be eternally grateful to those who sacrifice their time and stamina for people who live 10 000 miles away and they never met.
There are many experienced members, who, at least, will try to get into your problem and offer (sometimes working) solution.
There is, also, a lot of compassion and friendliness.
I wish this place existed 25 years ago...