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Vitamin B1 and/or biotin may treat Huntington Disease (HD)

haidut

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As some of my own studies with cancer recently demonstrated, vitamins are no laughing matter when it comes to their ability to treat very serious conditions. This seems to be especially true in regards to the B vitamins, which are required co-factors for most of the metabolic reactions inside our organisms. The study below adds more to that line of evidence by demonstrating that conditions such as HD may be little more than organ-specific symptoms of intracellular deficiency of one or more of the B vitamins. I emphasized the word "intracellular", because doctors have tested blood levels of those vitamins in patients with various conditions (including HD) and the levels have invariable came back normal. However, as is often the case (and mainstream medicine refuses to admit), normal blood levels of a substance does not imply normal intracellular levels as well. Aware of this discrepancy, the study authors checked thiamine (vitamin B1) and biotin (vitamin B7) levels in brains of animals with the equivalent of HD, as well as in autopsy samples of people who died with HD, and confirmed intracellular deficiency in both of these vitamins. So, the authors surmised that giving pharmacological doses of those vitamins may be able to reverse that intracellular deficiency, and indeed that's exactly what happened, with the end result being great amelioration of HD symptoms. I can't get access to the full study so I can get the actual doses, but human studies with Crohn's disease(CD) and Multiple Sclerosis (MS) have also confirmed intracellular deficiency of those vitamins and has successfully treated the deficiencies (as well as the actual pathology, at least in regards to MS) with about 600mg thiamine (for CD) and 300mg biotin (for MS) daily. The mechanism of action for the therapeutic benefit of those vitamins in both conditions has already been confirmed to be improvement of oxidative metabolism, with consequent increase in ATP and CO2 synthesis.

AAAS
Two vitamins found in meat may help treat an incurable brain disease

"...In a study published Wednesday in the journal Science Translational Medicine, researchers discover people with Huntington’s disease don’t take up the nutrient thiamine from their diet into their brain cells. At the same time, this issue may present a new treatment strategy for a disease with no known treatment. Typically, people get thiamine by eating proteins like pork and fish, or legumes like peas or soybeans. “Blood levels of thiamine are normal in people with Huntington’s,” José Lucas tells Inverse. Lucas is a professor at Centro de Biología Molecular-Severo Ochoa in Spain and an author of the new study. “Therefore, eating a diet rich in thiamine and biotin will not solve the problem of inefficient uptake by brain cells,” he adds. So Lucas and his team posed another question: Could supplementing meals with the nutrients thiamine and biotin — vitamin B1 and vitamin B7— make a difference to the disease’s core symptoms? By testing this hypothesis in mice, they found the vitamin supplements improved both motor symptoms and slow brain-cell damage."
 

lampofred

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I think supplementing b-vitamins, especially B1, might be dangerous. It seems like it inappropriately raises metabolic rate, similar to iodine which Peat dislikes. The body is intelligent, there is a reason why it is preventing B1 uptake from foods, and I think it's risky for humans to forcibly override that by supplementing large doses of it.
 

Toria

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Whilst I would typically agree with you, in the case of diseases like HD, there is clearly a ‘faulty gene’ which is causing vitamin uptake to be restricted to such a high degree that it causes deficiency. There is HD in my family and it has long been my thought process that the disease is metabolic in nature and the gene that has been stated to cause HD actually causes metabolic disregulation, and the side effect of this is the symptoms associated with the illness.
 

cgh4444

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I think supplementing b-vitamins, especially B1, might be dangerous. It seems like it inappropriately raises metabolic rate, similar to iodine which Peat dislikes. The body is intelligent, there is a reason why it is preventing B1 uptake from foods, and I think it's risky for humans to forcibly override that by supplementing large doses of it.

supplementing b vitamins is dangerous? Wouldn’t it be more dangerous to let a long standing deficiency continue until there is irreversible damage? I can’t say I really get this type of thinking, that’s like saying If someone hypothyroid they just ignore it because there’s “a reason the body’s doing it”, all the while the body continues to degenerate to the point of disability,
 

lampofred

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supplementing b vitamins is dangerous? Wouldn’t it be more dangerous to let a long standing deficiency continue until there is irreversible damage? I can’t say I really get this type of thinking, that’s like saying If someone hypothyroid they just ignore it because there’s “a reason the body’s doing it”, all the while the body continues to degenerate to the point of disability,

I think this is different from thyroid because thyroid works systemically whereas B1 is more isolated in its effects. That's why vitamin D isn't dangerous to supplement either, because it's so broad in its effects. So you can't really mess up homeostasis in radical and unpredictable ways with thyroid and vitamin D the way that something narrower like B1 can. (This is completely a guess but supplementing isolated amino acids interferes with protein synthesis in the long-run, B1 might have a similar effect.)

But to be honest even thyroid and vitamin D need to be supplemented with caution, since if someone doesn't know to greatly increase nutrition in order to support thyroid (especially milk, also eggs & small fish/shellfish, maybe potatoes), it will completely burn them out over time. I think that's part of the reason why the T4 doctors prescribe doesn't work for so many people, they don't know that thyroid has to supported with above-average nutrition. And too much vitamin D without enough calcium can increase serotonin.

@Toria I do not mean to speak as if I have any in-depth knowledge about HD, but I think it's very possible that the problem is epigenetic, due to environmental imprinting, and not genetic in the sense that the issue is encoded into who you are and there's nothing you can do about it. But admittedly, reversing epigenetic imprinting is definitely not simple and requires prolonged excellent nutrition, especially calcium & vitamin D, progesterone, niacinamide (to deplete methionine, which is the cause of methylation, which is the way epigenetic imprinting occurs), coffee/caffeine, baking soda, maybe nicotine, possibly lidocaine. Olive oil, salt, orange juice, white button mushrooms, aspirin, vit E and capsaicin can help to keep CO2 high although I don't know if they have epigenetic effects. Peat says that anything that can substantially raise CO2 can reverse imprinting (maybe DNP can reverse imprinting? but definitely not recommending anyone to try it).

I don't know if anyone will believe me but I think a specific prayer reversed an epigenetic imprinting for me when nothing else would work.
 
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lampofred

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What does that even mean?

I think it causes energy to be wasted in unproductive ways. As opposed to thyroid which raises metabolic rate in a productive, anabolic way.
 
Last edited:

cgh4444

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Don’t take vitamins when you’re severely deficient, just pray. Got it. Or use nicotine. Some of the stuff you read on this forum… hahaha.
 

lampofred

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What was the specific prayer?

I repeated the names of a Hindu God with focus, the names are known as the Maha-Mantra (Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare). It's a type of meditation known in Hinduism as bhakti-yoga. Krishna might be the Hindu equivalent of Christ (or Christ might be the Hindu equivalent of Krishna) since the names are so similar, but I don't know. I only feel the effects on days when I keep my serotonin is very low (by keeping fat intake very low and getting a lot of calcium and coffee).

I'm pretty skeptical about things like this but I tried it because I read an article about someone who recorded his brain while doing it and the effect on the brain was the same as taking progesterone, which seemed too strong to have just been placebo (Neurologist’s Study Shows Maha-Mantra Could Help Anxiety, Schizophrenia). It stimulates the cerebellum, and once a malfunctioning cerebellum is stimulated enough, it regenerates on its own (which makes me think the cerebellum malfunctions due to epigenetic limitations on that region).

I understand why people would be skeptical and I'm not pushing anything on anyone. But if anyone doesn't believe me, either offer scientific, non-mystical explanations as to the prayer's effects, which I am more than happy to discuss, or just keep your thoughts to yourself, as I'm not interested in reading idiotic sarcastic remarks like the one above that discount my personal experience.
 
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cgh4444

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I repeated the names of a Hindu God with focus, the names are known as the Maha-Mantra (Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare). It's a type of meditation known in Hinduism as bhakti-yoga. Krishna might be the Hindu equivalent of Christ (or Christ might be the Hindu equivalent of Krishna) since the names are so similar, but I don't know. I only feel the effects on days when I keep my serotonin is very low (by keeping fat intake very low and getting a lot of calcium and coffee).

I'm pretty skeptical about things like this but I tried it because I read an article about someone who recorded his brain while doing it and the effect on the brain was the same as taking progesterone, which seemed too strong to have just been placebo (Neurologist’s Study Shows Maha-Mantra Could Help Anxiety, Schizophrenia). It stimulates the cerebellum, and once a malfunctioning cerebellum is stimulated enough, it regenerates on its own (which makes me think the cerebellum malfunctions due to epigenetic limitations on that region).

I understand why people would be skeptical and I'm not pushing anything on anyone. But if anyone doesn't believe me, either offer scientific, non-mystical explanations as to the prayer's effects, which I am more than happy to discuss, or just keep your thoughts to yourself, as I'm not interested in reading idiotic sarcastic remarks like the one above that discount my personal experience.
I have nothing against prayer but when you say vitamin dosing is dangerous and then offer nicotine and prayer as alternate solutions I think maybe you need to re evaluate your position, that’s all.
 

lampofred

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I have nothing against prayer but when you say vitamin dosing is dangerous and then offer nicotine and prayer as alternate solutions I think maybe you need to re evaluate your position, that’s all.

My point wasn't that you shouldn't take a vitamin as a one-off thing if you're severely deficient, but that you shouldn't chronically forcibly supplement an isolated vitamin when your body is clearly purposefully keeping it low. Because then the root problem isn't the vitamin deficiency, the root problem is the epigenetic deregulation which is causing the body to not properly use the vitamin. And there are multiple ways to tackle epigenetic imprinting even though it is difficult: prolonged good nutrition and high CO2 as Peat mentions, and also perhaps some methods that science cannot explain yet, as what happened in my experience.
 

pied

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@lampofred Do you think there is a 'resonance' or something similar to that specific prayer that would make it work for everyone? The article you linked mentions that the experiment was done on the author, who has an Indian name and probably holds that prayer close to his heart. My guess is that it depends on the cultural context, i.e: that the Krishna mantra is useful to those who believe it, the Lord's prayer to Christians etc (I also think one can pray without reference to any God.)
 

lampofred

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@lampofred Do you think there is a 'resonance' or something similar to that specific prayer that would make it work for everyone? The article you linked mentions that the experiment was done on the author, who has an Indian name and probably holds that prayer close to his heart. My guess is that it depends on the cultural context, i.e: that the Krishna mantra is useful to those who believe it, the Lord's prayer to Christians etc (I also think one can pray without reference to any God.)

I would have to say there is some sort of resonance involved with that particular name because I wasn't particularly religious before this experience. Even though I always believed in God, I believed in some universal formless entity; it didn't make sense to me that God could go by particular names, so I was pretty surprised when a specific name had such noticeable effects on me. But I think the name of every religion's God has a resonance to it because the propounder of the Hare Krishna movement would tell people to repeat the name of the God of their own religions, not specifically the "Krishna" name, as all holy names would have a powerful effect. But I think it would have to be a name that transcends language (for example, no matter what language a Hindu speaks, Krishna would be called Krishna, no matter what language a Muslim speaks, Allah would be called Allah), I don't know if it would have the same effect if someone repeats a sentence of praise he/she individually came up with in his/her own language, which would be pronounced completely differently if translated to another language.

But of course this is complete conjecture as I have no idea how this actually worked, it's way over my head.
 

Mr.Bollox

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I think supplementing b-vitamins, especially B1, might be dangerous. It seems like it inappropriately raises metabolic rate, similar to iodine which Peat dislikes. The body is intelligent, there is a reason why it is preventing B1 uptake from foods, and I think it's risky for humans to forcibly override that by supplementing large doses of it.
why especially b1? i heard it absorbs only 1% of supplements
iodine stimulates the immune system, can potentially lower glutathione, boost hydrogen peroxide levels and cause organ and tissue damage
does b1 have involvement in the same sort of things?
I asked Peat about using thiamine, he likes regular thiamine hcl, i asked him about 500mg a day, he said 100mg 3x a day is usually enough
in some videos hes said even 10mg b1 or b6 can provide immediate noticeable benefit
he seems much more open to using bs than iodine
hes wary of riboflavin due to sourcing problems, its sourced from toxic things i think. and he doesnt like supplementing folate, b12, choline due to the pro methylation activities, maybe pro cancer too

what do you think could happen if using large doses of thiamine hcl
 

Mr.Bollox

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I think it causes energy to be wasted in unproductive ways. As opposed to thyroid which raises metabolic rate in a productive, anabolic way.
thats like glycolysis isnt it, i think berberine can do something like that?
 

lampofred

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why especially b1? i heard it absorbs only 1% of supplements
iodine stimulates the immune system, can potentially lower glutathione, boost hydrogen peroxide levels and cause organ and tissue damage
does b1 have involvement in the same sort of things?
I asked Peat about using thiamine, he likes regular thiamine hcl, i asked him about 500mg a day, he said 100mg 3x a day is usually enough
in some videos hes said even 10mg b1 or b6 can provide immediate noticeable benefit
he seems much more open to using bs than iodine
hes wary of riboflavin due to sourcing problems, its sourced from toxic things i think. and he doesnt like supplementing folate, b12, choline due to the pro methylation activities, maybe pro cancer too

what do you think could happen if using large doses of thiamine hcl

I don't think it would be harmful to supplement it just once to get out of a brain fog or something, but in the long-run I think it has effects that are opposite to that of vitamin D. In high doses over a chronic period of time I think it can redirect too much energy towards the brain and not enough energy towards the heart. That might not make much sense but I don't know how to word it better. I got this from just putting together various things I've read about B1, so I can't support it with any specific studies that show clear-cut evidence against chronic, high-dose B1 supplementation.
 

lampofred

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thats like glycolysis isnt it, i think berberine can do something like that?

Yeah, it's like glycolysis but in sort of a convoluted way. It lowers glycolysis in the short-run (because it lowers lactate and increases CO2) but increases glycolysis in the long-run by acting in a way opposite to vitamin D. I've never read anything about berberine.
 

Mr.Bollox

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I don't think it would be harmful to supplement it just once to get out of a brain fog or something, but in the long-run I think it has effects that are opposite to that of vitamin D. In high doses over a chronic period of time I think it can redirect too much energy towards the brain and not enough energy towards the heart. That might not make much sense but I don't know how to word it better. I got this from just putting together various things I've read about B1, so I can't support it with any specific studies that show clear-cut evidence against chronic, high-dose B1 supplementation.
it has carbonic anhydrase inhibitor properties so it should boost co2. pomegranate juice also. i dont know how powerful thiamine and pomegranate juice are at inhibiting that enzyme. they probably become even more valuable the lower the altitude youre living at. in some ways they seem like a good crutch for people not living at high altitude, similar to vitamin d for people with trouble getting proper sunlight.
 

Mr.Bollox

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Yeah, it's like glycolysis but in sort of a convoluted way. It lowers glycolysis in the short-run (because it lowers lactate and increases CO2) but increases glycolysis in the long-run by acting in a way opposite to vitamin D. I've never read anything about berberine.
what things does b1 do opposite to vitamin d?
 
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