High-dose Thiamine May Treat Fatigue From Chron's And IBD

[haidut]

Have you seen any studies showing long term corrections to the transport system after mega dosing thiamin?
This kinda reminds me of the ketotifen vs enzymes study and how in the long run you're likely better off tanking your histamine levels for a bit to help the pancreas regenerate. Every bout of high dose cypro and other metabolic boosters seem to restore my ability to function at a high level without supplements

Have not seen studies on improved transport system from megatherapy, but like you said, that may be corrected by an antihistamine or anti-serotonin agent. Niacinamide seems to actually be a diseases-modifying agent for many autoimmune conditions (likely by raising NAD) so it may be something worth trying considering the comments by GorillaHead above.

 

[Kartoffel]

@haidut Would it be possible to buy a custom made B1 mixture from idealabs that approaches the therapeutic doses they used? Like Energin, just with 500 mg of thiamine only.

 

[Waynish]

@haidut Would it be possible to buy a custom made B1 mixture from idealabs that approaches the therapeutic doses they used? Like Energin, just with 500 mg of thiamine only.

Why not just buy Bulk Supplement's or Health Natura's B1? Same thing, right?

 

[Kartoffel]

Why not just buy Bulk Supplement's or Health Natura's B1? Same thing, right?

I trust haidut more than these suppliers, and I want an ethanol solution for topical application. If I want to mix that myself I would have to buy ethanol, dropper bottles, a decent scale, etc first. That's why I wanted to ask him first for a trial.

 

[haidut]

@haidut Would it be possible to buy a custom made B1 mixture from idealabs that approaches the therapeutic doses they used? Like Energin, just with 500 mg of thiamine only.

We can't dissolve that much thiamine per dose. That much thiamine will need 8ml-10ml to dissolve a single 500mg dose, which means you are looking at a 500ml bottle as monthly supply. It is better to try the powder/pills if such doses are needed.

 

[Kartoffel]

We can't dissolve that much thiamine per dose. That much thiamine will need 8ml-10ml to dissolve a single 500mg dose, which means you are looking at a 500ml bottle as monthly supply. It is better to try the powder/pills if such doses are needed.

Yeah, I guess shipping would get expensive that way. I'll just buy some powders and dissolve them myself. You use a 20% ethanol solution for Energin right? And a 20:1 ratio is needed to dissolve thiamine hcl properly?

 

[haidut]

Yeah, I guess shipping would get expensive that way. I'll just buy some powders and dissolve them myself. You use a 20% ethanol solution for Energin right? And a 20:1 ratio is needed to dissolve thiamine hcl properly?

Thiamine dissolves at about 50mg/ml in water/ethanol. So to dissolve 500mg, you'd need about 10ml of liquid, maybe a bit less.

 

[Kartoffel]

Thiamine dissolves at about 50mg/ml in water/ethanol. So to dissolve 500mg, you'd need about 10ml of liquid, maybe a bit less.

Thanks. Does the ethanol increase topical absorption, or why do you add the ethanol to Energin (since the b-vitamins are all water soluble)?

 

[haidut]

Thanks. Does the ethanol increase topical absorption, or why do you add the ethanol to Energin (since the b-vitamins are all water soluble)?

It does increase absorption, as mentioned in the main Energin post.

 

[klein164]

1 mg twice a day. Complete remission of diarrhea and abdominal pain. Hemorrhoids are taking longer to deal with, but they have gotten better with TyroMax.

Were you taking the TyroMax orally or applying to the affected area?

 

[docall18]

Ray said it in one of his interviews that if Chron's and Irritable Bowel Disease / Syndrome (IBD / IBS) are not caused by a pathogen similar to the one implicated in ulcer, then it's most likely a symptom of hypothyroidism, specifically due to issues with carbohydrate metabolism. And if that process (carbs to ATP) is not working properly, then thiamine is likely a factor. Note that the people in the study were NOT deficient in thiamine, so a blood test would not have caught it. It seems that they have a problem/defect with the thiamine transport to the cells, so normal levels of plasma thiamine would correspond to deficiency inside the cell. Thus, high-doses of thiamine would bring the intracellular thiamine levels up to what they need to be for normal ATP synthesis:
Thiamine and fatigue in inflammatory bowel diseases: an open-label pilot study. - PubMed - NCBI

Couple of things in this study that caught my eye:

1. Obvious: Chronic diseases so common in the Western world are tied to an energetic/metabolic problem, correctable by supplements/diet.

2. Effective thiamine dosage (similar to the other studies I posted) is at least 600mg-1500mg per day.

3. Plasma thiamine levels are NOT a good indicator of cellular levels. This always reminds me of Ray talking about thyroid and estrogen tests being unreliable b/c they do not measure the levels of these hormones in the cells, and that in menopause tissue levels of estrogen are very high while plasma levels are normal/low.

This study doesnt say that thiamine can treat Chron's and IBD.

It says that fatigue associated with Chron's/IBS may be due to a thiamine deficiency. High dose thiamine can treat this fatigue.

No doubt many vitamins are lacking due to Chron's/IBD.

 

[haidut]

This study doesnt say that thiamine can treat Chron's and IBD.

It says that fatigue associated with Chron's/IBS may be due to a thiamine deficiency. High dose thiamine can treat this fatigue.

No doubt many vitamins are lacking due to Chron's/IBD.

True, and I changed the title for now. The reason I say for now is that I emailed the study author back when I posted this thread and asked him if he think thiamine can actually be a disease-modifying agent. His response was "yes, and not just thiamine but other vitamins too". I asked him for permission to post the email exchange we had and once he agrees then I will post that and modify the title back to what it was. Even this study hints at actual disease modifying effects of thiamine.
"...The diseases treated with high doses of vitamin B1, and for long periods of time, are Alzheimer's disease and thiamine responsive megaloblastic anemia (TRMA). The doses employed in TRMA are similar to ours and have been administered for several years. In Alzheimer's disease, doses equal to 3 to 8 grams per day were administered for one year without observing any collateral effect.6,7 A study presented by Magee et al.8 demonstrated that thiamine-rich foods decrease disease activity in patients affected by UC. "
Associations between diet and disease activity in ulcerative colitis patients using a novel method of data analysis. - PubMed - NCBI