High-dose Thiamine May Treat Fatigue From Chron's And IBD

haidut

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Ray said it in one of his interviews that if Chron's and Irritable Bowel Disease / Syndrome (IBD / IBS) are not caused by a pathogen similar to the one implicated in ulcer, then it's most likely a symptom of hypothyroidism, specifically due to issues with carbohydrate metabolism. And if that process (carbs to ATP) is not working properly, then thiamine is likely a factor. Note that the people in the study were NOT deficient in thiamine, so a blood test would not have caught it. It seems that they have a problem/defect with the thiamine transport to the cells, so normal levels of plasma thiamine would correspond to deficiency inside the cell. Thus, high-doses of thiamine would bring the intracellular thiamine levels up to what they need to be for normal ATP synthesis:
Thiamine and fatigue in inflammatory bowel diseases: an open-label pilot study. - PubMed - NCBI
"...The diseases treated with high doses of vitamin B1, and for long periods of time, are Alzheimer's disease and thiamine responsive megaloblastic anemia (TRMA). The doses employed in TRMA are similar to ours and have been administered for several years. In Alzheimer's disease, doses equal to 3 to 8 grams per day were administered for one year without observing any collateral effect.6,7 A study presented by Magee et al.8 demonstrated that thiamine-rich foods decrease disease activity in patients affected by UC. "

Here is reference [8] mention in the study above.
Associations between diet and disease activity in ulcerative colitis patients using a novel method of data analysis. - PubMed - NCBI


Couple of things in this study that caught my eye:

1. Obvious: Chronic diseases so common in the Western world are tied to an energetic/metabolic problem, correctable by supplements/diet.

2. Effective thiamine dosage (similar to the other studies I posted) is at least 600mg-1500mg per day.

3. Plasma thiamine levels are NOT a good indicator of cellular levels. This always reminds me of Ray talking about thyroid and estrogen tests being unreliable b/c they do not measure the levels of these hormones in the cells, and that in menopause tissue levels of estrogen are very high while plasma levels are normal/low.
 
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jaa

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Ok Ok you've convinced me to give this thiamine thing a go :D
 

4peatssake

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jaa said:
Ok Ok you've convinced me to give this thiamine thing a go :D
:lol: me too!
 

haidut

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LOL! I wasn't trying to convince anybody to take it. I was just posting my findings on what diseases seem to be energetic in origin, and what supplements diet would be helpful. Stomach issues and autoimmune conditions is what seems to be bringing many people to this forum and Peat writes about those as well.
But by all means - if you want feel free to load up on B1. I know I will:):
 

Parisa

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If the problem is the transport of thiamine to the cells and not a deficiency, how will taking more fix the problem? ( Not looking to argue, just seeing if there is an answer to my question.)

I have my answer after reading the study: "The administration of large quantities of thiamine increases the concentration in the blood to levels in which the passive transport restores the normal glucose metabolism in all cells and leads to a complete regression of fatigue"
 

FredSonoma

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I've started supplementing Thiamine HCL (300 mg first day, 400 mg yesterday, gonna do 500 mg today), and I'm getting weird burps that taste like the inside of the Thiamine pill. Is this a sign of anything? Should I keep increasing the dose? I definitely fall asleep more easily and feel like I take sugar better.
 
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FredSonoma said:
I've started supplementing Thiamine HCL (300 mg first day, 400 mg yesterday, gonna do 500 mg today), and I'm getting weird burps that taste like the inside of the Thiamine pill. Is this a sign of anything? Should I keep increasing the dose? I definitely fall asleep more easily and feel like I take sugar better.

I'm glad you could try some. Check out 1500mg some time, for me it was an experience :cool:
 

FredSonoma

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Such_Saturation said:
FredSonoma said:
I've started supplementing Thiamine HCL (300 mg first day, 400 mg yesterday, gonna do 500 mg today), and I'm getting weird burps that taste like the inside of the Thiamine pill. Is this a sign of anything? Should I keep increasing the dose? I definitely fall asleep more easily and feel like I take sugar better.

I'm glad you could try some. Check out 1500mg some time, for me it was an experience :cool:

Haha what kind of experience? And do you think it's safe for me to just jump to 1500? Am I gonna be drowsy af? I'm feeling a little drowsy right now.

Edit: Also, since I started taking Thiamine, I can't meditate for more than like 15 minutes without getting so tired that I need to take a nap. I'm thinking maybe my body needs more rest and the Thiamine is lowering my cortisol enough to let me feel tired enough to rest? Or something else?
 
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FredSonoma said:
Such_Saturation said:
FredSonoma said:
I've started supplementing Thiamine HCL (300 mg first day, 400 mg yesterday, gonna do 500 mg today), and I'm getting weird burps that taste like the inside of the Thiamine pill. Is this a sign of anything? Should I keep increasing the dose? I definitely fall asleep more easily and feel like I take sugar better.

I'm glad you could try some. Check out 1500mg some time, for me it was an experience :cool:

Haha what kind of experience? And do you think it's safe for me to just jump to 1500? Am I gonna be drowsy af? I'm feeling a little drowsy right now.

Edit: Also, since I started taking Thiamine, I can't meditate for more than like 15 minutes without getting so tired that I need to take a nap. I'm thinking maybe my body needs more rest and the Thiamine is lowering my cortisol enough to let me feel tired enough to rest? Or something else?

Yes, it makes me sleepy as well, try it while laying in the sunshine.
 

FredSonoma

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Such_Saturation said:
FredSonoma said:
Such_Saturation said:
FredSonoma said:
I've started supplementing Thiamine HCL (300 mg first day, 400 mg yesterday, gonna do 500 mg today), and I'm getting weird burps that taste like the inside of the Thiamine pill. Is this a sign of anything? Should I keep increasing the dose? I definitely fall asleep more easily and feel like I take sugar better.

I'm glad you could try some. Check out 1500mg some time, for me it was an experience :cool:

Haha what kind of experience? And do you think it's safe for me to just jump to 1500? Am I gonna be drowsy af? I'm feeling a little drowsy right now.

Edit: Also, since I started taking Thiamine, I can't meditate for more than like 15 minutes without getting so tired that I need to take a nap. I'm thinking maybe my body needs more rest and the Thiamine is lowering my cortisol enough to let me feel tired enough to rest? Or something else?

Yes, it makes me sleepy as well, try it while laying in the sunshine.

Haha alright will do
 

treelady

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Thanks haidut :)
I read Thiamine needs magnesium to do its work, so I've been taking Source Naturals 500 B-1 that has 100mg magnesium in it in the morning. But you gave me the idea of taking some more often. I muscle tested it after lunch and my body wanted 250mg more. It's good for all my issues - Brain health, Diabetes, Estrogen Dominance, Thyroid, increasing CO2 and reducing lactate.
 
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I couldn't do 1500mg magnesium personally :lol: :toiletclaw
 

XPlus

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I'm getting beautifully sedated from taking around 1000mg/day.
No trouble falling asleep anywhere anytime.

Waking up well rested and in a better mood.
Didn't get much boost from anything new I tried recently.
This combined with the extra thyroid and too much sleep seems to accelerate healing.

Still get loose stools from taking doses this high.
 

skycop00

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Has anyone here reversed/Cured Chron's? Maybe someone has some good recommendations adding to the one's above?? I have a 22 year old female friend suffering for 6 years now. She is on Birth Control Pill and I suspect is very HYPO thyroid as she is very cold always in hands and feet! Thanks
 

Pointless

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I have been diagnosed with severe fistulizing Crohn's disease. I had major surgery to remove parts of my intestines (cecum and sigmoid). Cyproheptadine is an amazing drug.
 

skycop00

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I have been diagnosed with severe fistulizing Crohn's disease. I had major surgery to remove parts of my intestines (cecum and sigmoid). Cyproheptadine is an amazing drug.
@Pointless How and in what doses has it helped? SHe has not had any bowel resections as of yet, but she is suffering...and absolutely no dairy and all.
 

Pointless

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@Pointless How and in what doses has it helped? SHe has not had any bowel resections as of yet, but she is suffering...and absolutely no dairy and all.

1 mg twice a day. Complete remission of diarrhea and abdominal pain. Hemorrhoids are taking longer to deal with, but they have gotten better with TyroMax.
 

JackHanma

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Ray said it in one of his interviews that if Chron's and Irritable Bowel Disease / Syndrome (IBD / IBS) are not caused by a pathogen similar to the one implicated in ulcer, then it's most likely a symptom of hypothyroidism, specifically due to issues with carbohydrate metabolism. And if that process (carbs to ATP) is not working properly, then thiamine is likely a factor. Note that the people in the study were NOT deficient in thiamine, so a blood test would not have caught it. It seems that they have a problem/defect with the thiamine transport to the cells, so normal levels of plasma thiamine would correspond to deficiency inside the cell. Thus, high-doses of thiamine would bring the intracellular thiamine levels up to what they need to be for normal ATP synthesis:
Thiamine and fatigue in inflammatory bowel diseases: an open-label pilot study. - PubMed - NCBI

Couple of things in this study that caught my eye:

1. Obvious: Chronic diseases so common in the Western world are tied to an energetic/metabolic problem, correctable by supplements/diet.

2. Effective thiamine dosage (similar to the other studies I posted) is at least 600mg-1500mg per day.

3. Plasma thiamine levels are NOT a good indicator of cellular levels. This always reminds me of Ray talking about thyroid and estrogen tests being unreliable b/c they do not measure the levels of these hormones in the cells, and that in menopause tissue levels of estrogen are very high while plasma levels are normal/low.


Any dangers of excess? Quick search shows:

Vitamin B1 Overdose Symptoms

The B vitamins all work together in a complex. Taking too much of a single B vitamin, such as vitamin B1, can cause an imbalance in the other B vitamins. In severe cases, the imbalance may cause deficiencies in the other B vitamins, which can cause a wide variety of symptoms. Deficiencies in several of the other B vitamins, such as B3, B6 and B12, can cause feelings of fatigue and tiredness, along with skin irritations and rashes. Deficiencies in B6 and B12 can lead to anemia, causing very pale skin and muscle weakness. Vitamin B12 deficiencies can also cause neurological symptoms, including numbness or tingling in the hands or feet.

The dosages recommended are essentially 600-1500 x the daily recommended dose. Do you think it could put the other b-vitamins out of whack in dosages this excessive as the site above warns? Marmite is touted to have roughly 1500%, about 23mg, maybe a food source is safer?
 
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