Vitamin B1 and/or biotin may treat Huntington Disease (HD)

[lampofred]

what things does b1 do opposite to vitamin d?

I think vitamin D lowers carbon dioxide in the short run but increases it in the long-run (when accompanied by high calcium to phosphate ratio in the diet), whereas b1 increases carbon dioxide in the short-run but lowers it in the long-run. I realize that's a terrible explanation, so I'll try to find some studies that I can use to explain my line of thinking more clearly...

 

[Ismail]

I don't think it would be harmful to supplement it just once to get out of a brain fog or something, but in the long-run I think it has effects that are opposite to that of vitamin D. In high doses over a chronic period of time I think it can redirect too much energy towards the brain and not enough energy towards the heart. That might not make much sense but I don't know how to word it better. I got this from just putting together various things I've read about B1, so I can't support it with any specific studies that show clear-cut evidence against chronic, high-dose B1 supplementation.

Have you seen Elliot Overton’s videos on B1 supplementation? He seems to specialise in B1 research.

https://youtube.com/c/EONutrition

 

[Razvan]

I think vitamin D lowers carbon dioxide in the short run but increases it in the long-run (when accompanied by high calcium to phosphate ratio in the diet), whereas b1 increases carbon dioxide in the short-run but lowers it in the long-run. I realize that's a terrible explanation, so I'll try to find some studies that I can use to explain my line of thinking more clearly...

I don't think it lowers co2 in the long run,but the effect of wasteful energy you have with it is from acetylcholine. B1 and especially high dosages of it raise acetylcholine which for some people will cause high energy and rapid thinking , hyperactive state in the brain. For other people which are more sensitive will make them manic. That's from where it comes your thinking.
Also b1 with low magnesium or magnesium deficiency will raise serotonin a little bit whereas b1 with magnesium lots of carbs will improve co2,stamina and lower serotonin. I always feel not needing to breathe with B1.
Lampofred, man, I like your empirical style of viewing things,but reconsider B1,take it with magnesium and lots of carbs and the day you take it do not eat eggs or organ meats as they have lots of choline.
Caffeine with B1 and nicotine can have very awakening effects.

 

[tygreezytlb]

To think that a b1 supplement is going to cure a neuro degenerative disease that like has many co factors is just silly

 

[Dr. B]

I don't think it lowers co2 in the long run,but the effect of wasteful energy you have with it is from acetylcholine. B1 and especially high dosages of it raise acetylcholine which for some people will cause high energy and rapid thinking , hyperactive state in the brain. For other people which are more sensitive will make them manic. That's from where it comes your thinking.
Also b1 with low magnesium or magnesium deficiency will raise serotonin a little bit whereas b1 with magnesium lots of carbs will improve co2,stamina and lower serotonin. I always feel not needing to breathe with B1.
Lampofred, man, I like your empirical style of viewing things,but reconsider B1,take it with magnesium and lots of carbs and the day you take it do not eat eggs or organ meats as they have lots of choline.
Caffeine with B1 and nicotine can have very awakening effects.

the main or only concern i can think of b1 is with the megadoses and just any effects it has on other b vitamins or minerals. some claim it can deplete manganese or iron too much. im currently just doing 500mg thiamine hcl and might add in 3.5mg pyridoxine HCL. dont want to supplement choline, or b5 or biotin or b2. Ray had some strong concerns about b2 which seem true, and biotin causes bad looking skin without b5 taken alongside it. b5 supposedly affects taurine levels, reduces muscle protein synthesis, and 'activates the adrenals'. actually ill use 500mg niacinamide, 25mg riboflavin 5 phosphate, 15mg b6 pyridoxal phosphate, 2000mcg tetrahydrafolate, 1000mcg b12, 650mg betaine TMG but just once a week. for daily usage i was thinking of sticking to just 500mg thiamine hcl with 3.5mg pyridoxine hcl
does acetylcholine cause things like increased oily skin/hair, increased acne, increased anxiety or is that just regular choline? i get those kind of effects from choline bitartrate supps, as well as to a lesser extent from supplementing creatine (i think creatine spares choline). alpha gpc and other choline supps also have a lot of reviews online mentioning they helped in the gym but caused too much acne and sometimes anxiety, sweating etc.

 

[lampofred]

I don't think it lowers co2 in the long run,but the effect of wasteful energy you have with it is from acetylcholine. B1 and especially high dosages of it raise acetylcholine which for some people will cause high energy and rapid thinking , hyperactive state in the brain. For other people which are more sensitive will make them manic. That's from where it comes your thinking.
Also b1 with low magnesium or magnesium deficiency will raise serotonin a little bit whereas b1 with magnesium lots of carbs will improve co2,stamina and lower serotonin. I always feel not needing to breathe with B1.
Lampofred, man, I like your empirical style of viewing things,but reconsider B1,take it with magnesium and lots of carbs and the day you take it do not eat eggs or organ meats as they have lots of choline.
Caffeine with B1 and nicotine can have very awakening effects.

This makes sense to me. Vitamin D is anticholinergic so if B1 is cholinergic then it supports what I felt about it having effects opposite to vitamin D. So B1 seems like it could be safe for an already healthy person who keeps choline intake low. But it might not be safe for people in poor health, since Peat has said neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's are associated with excess cholinergic activity (due to insufficient amounts of the acetylcholinesterase enzyme which breaks down acetylcholine).

 

[Dr. B]

This makes sense to me. Vitamin D is anticholinergic so if B1 is cholinergic then it supports what I felt about it having effects opposite to vitamin D. So B1 seems like it could be safe for an already healthy person who keeps choline intake low. But it might not be safe for people in poor health, since Peat has said neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's are associated with excess cholinergic activity (due to insufficient amounts of the acetylcholinesterase enzyme which breaks down acetylcholine).

isnt thiamine used to treat alzheimers, how does it do that. i have heard it boosts acetylcholine.
is it safe for people with lower choline intake then?
creatine supplementation has some similar effects to choline supplementation as well... i think it spares choline when supplemented

 

[lampofred]

isnt thiamine used to treat alzheimers, how does it do that. i have heard it boosts acetylcholine.

Peat says Alzheimer's is actually caused by excess acetylcholine, even though the mainstream says that it's caused by insufficient acetylcholine, and that the cholinergic drugs used to treat it either cause harm or are beneficial because of their anti-glutamate activity, not because of their pro-acetylcholine effects.

is it safe for people with lower choline intake then?

Most of my posts are just my hypotheses, I can't definitely say whether something is safe or not. But going off of Razvan's post, which makes sense to me as an explanation for why B1 could have negative effects, I would say that it would probably be safe for a healthy person with low choline.

 

[Jon2547]

I take Benfotiamine.

A couple of years back I got some Sulbutiamine and only used it a time or two. It was not something that I could use. It made me wide awake, could not sleep, overly stimulated.

 

[Dr. B]

I take Benfotiamine.

A couple of years back I got some Sulbutiamine and only used it a time or two. It was not something that I could use. It made me wide awake, could not sleep, overly stimulated.

have you tried 500mg thiamine hcl or allithiamine
i think some posts on here were saying benfotiamine is toxic

 

[Jon2547]

I have not tried those. When my current bottle of benfotiamine runs out I may try one of those.

 

[lampofred]

I think vitamin D lowers carbon dioxide in the short run but increases it in the long-run (when accompanied by high calcium to phosphate ratio in the diet), whereas b1 increases carbon dioxide in the short-run but lowers it in the long-run. I realize that's a terrible explanation, so I'll try to find some studies that I can use to explain my line of thinking more clearly...

what things does b1 do opposite to vitamin d?

Since I said I would try to find some studies, here are some studies that say B1 can increase angiogenesis, which is associated with cancer:

Vitamins and regulation of angiogenesis: [A, B1, B2, B3, B6, B9, B12, C, D, E, K]

Angiogenesis is one of the most important processes during wound healing, tissue regeneration, and tumor growth. Vitamins are one of the most importan…

www.sciencedirect.com

The role of thiamine in HIV infection

Patients infected with HIV have a high prevalence of thiamine deficiency. Genetic studies have provided the opportunity to determine which proteins li…

www.sciencedirect.com

Role of vitamins in angiogenesis

The purpose of the article is to evaluate effects of essential vitamins on angiogenesis and to determine their potential use as pro or anti-angiogenic agents vitamins A, B, C, D, E and K. Vitamin A

www.pirogov-vestnik.ru

(Admittedly, I don't know much about angiogenesis in depth though, so maybe I'm misinterpreting the studies and thinking a good effect is actually bad. I'll stop bumping this thread after this post.)

 

[Razvan]

the main or only concern i can think of b1 is with the megadoses and just any effects it has on other b vitamins or minerals. some claim it can deplete manganese or iron too much. im currently just doing 500mg thiamine hcl and might add in 3.5mg pyridoxine HCL. dont want to supplement choline, or b5 or biotin or b2. Ray had some strong concerns about b2 which seem true, and biotin causes bad looking skin without b5 taken alongside it. b5 supposedly affects taurine levels, reduces muscle protein synthesis, and 'activates the adrenals'. actually ill use 500mg niacinamide, 25mg riboflavin 5 phosphate, 15mg b6 pyridoxal phosphate, 2000mcg tetrahydrafolate, 1000mcg b12, 650mg betaine TMG but just once a week. for daily usage i was thinking of sticking to just 500mg thiamine hcl with 3.5mg pyridoxine hcl
does acetylcholine cause things like increased oily skin/hair, increased acne, increased anxiety or is that just regular choline? i get those kind of effects from choline bitartrate supps, as well as to a lesser extent from supplementing creatine (i think creatine spares choline). alpha gpc and other choline supps also have a lot of reviews online mentioning they helped in the gym but caused too much acne and sometimes anxiety, sweating etc.

Yes, increased saliva, oiliness and verbal fluency and also anxiety.

isnt thiamine used to treat alzheimers, how does it do that. i have heard it boosts acetylcholine.
is it safe for people with lower choline intake then?
creatine supplementation has some similar effects to choline supplementation as well... i think it spares choline when supplemented

Alzheimer can be a glucose problem in the brain,that's why b1 could help.

 

[Razvan]

This makes sense to me. Vitamin D is anticholinergic so if B1 is cholinergic then it supports what I felt about it having effects opposite to vitamin D. So B1 seems like it could be safe for an already healthy person who keeps choline intake low. But it might not be safe for people in poor health, since Peat has said neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's are associated with excess cholinergic activity (due to insufficient amounts of the acetylcholinesterase enzyme which breaks down acetylcholine).

Yes. B1 can have unexpected effects depending on the person,but sometimes can be very helpful. Right now I'm not taking it. A very good alternative would be vitamin E as it can raise dopamine (especially D2) into the long run together with vitamin D and can make you feel energetic and happy without being manic or hiperactive. This it's due to the very strong anti aromatase and antiprolactin effect.

 

[Dr. B]

Yes, increased saliva, oiliness and verbal fluency and also anxiety.
Alzheimer can be a glucose problem in the brain,that's why b1 could help.

should b1 be combined with a small amount b6, like a few milligrams b6?
did you get increased acne from b1 then
and is dietary choline intake not as important with high dosing b1

 

[Razvan]

should b1 be combined with a small amount b6, like a few milligrams b6?
did you get increased acne from b1 then
and is dietary choline intake not as important with high dosing b1

No I didn't get acne , in fact made my skin younger. Yes it's better to keep choline low if you feel to hyperactive from b1 ,but if you you are fine it doesn't matter. I don't think it's necessary b6 with b1.
Usually acne is from estrogen or endotoxin.

 

[chococat]

I think supplementing b-vitamins, especially B1, might be dangerous. It seems like it inappropriately raises metabolic rate, similar to iodine which Peat dislikes. The body is intelligent, there is a reason why it is preventing B1 uptake from foods, and I think it's risky for humans to forcibly override that by supplementing large doses of it.

What do you think this reason is?

 

[tommyg130]

I have had troubling symptoms for a while. No diagnoses because I don’t go to Drs I just order my own blood work.. MS type symtoms. But my co2 is always high above 30.

I have CLEAR signs of low co2 though, and low atp production. I have been benefiting greatly from high thiamine and biotin. Could it be that high co2 In blood isn’t accurate and I’m actually
Woefully deficient in co2 In tissue and cells. Id be curious to get labs again and see if my co2 dropped into range more so reflecting true status