Thyroid Supplementation Ruined Me As A Man. How Can I Recover?

[Sumbody]

It's odd that even a smaller dose of exogenous thyroid produces the testicular ache and if I persist, things go very bad for a while.

I have always wanted to know why this happens? Especially if I really am hypothyroid and do need the extra hormones.

 

[haidut]

It's a bold title, I know, and my apologies, but I would do anything to go back and change my uninformed decisions at the time.

In April-May of 2018, I was prescribed 50mcg Levothyroxine because my TSH was hovering steady at around 8.x (mU/L).

At around the second week of supplementation, I started to notice slight dizziness, as well as a weird feeling of being overwhelmed or overstimulated by things I would see while shopping. Displays, shelves of products, etc. At this time I also began to experience a very slight dull ache in my left testicle. Two weeks later I would come to find that my ability to achieve an erection, become excited/stimulated or interested was completely gone! My libido went in reverse and I was almost repulsed by the thought of the opposite sex.

The dull ache in my testicle became a dull constant ache in both testicles, throughout the second month. Testicular volume, as well as ejaculate volume, shrunk considerably if I was even able to achieve an erection. At this point, I had never in my life, had so much difficulty or ever experienced a "half-****" erection.

For years prior to this, I was on another level with libido and performance. Often achieving almost instantaneous, painfully engorged erections with nearly zero refractory periods. Even nighttime tumescence erections were rock solid ALLWAYS! I had never experienced any type of difficulty in that department whatsoever in my life, until those first 30 days of thyroid, more precisely right about at the 30-day mark.

I took thyroid for one more month but realized I needed to stop. It took several months to "somewhat" recover. But here's the thing...

I have never quite felt the same!

My libido or desire for sex completely sucks compared to what it used to be. And I still experience weak erections from time to time. I had never experienced this EVER until thyroid was introduced to me.

Now since then, I have made huge strides in my thyroid recovery, without supplementation. I am now in the "normal" range according to the medical field but am still continuing towards improvement.

I have always felt that somehow taking the thyroid in a sense "re-wired" my brain. Somehow, somewhere, I don't know how but I just feel it. I feel like what I am experiencing is very similar to what folks describe as Post-Finasteride Syndrome. It doesn't seem possible from what I've learned and such, and my case seems to be somewhat rare, but I just know that based on how I feel somehow thyroid altered receptors in my brain. Which might explain why I felt so dizzy and awkward while taking thyroid.

Please bear with me, I still don't know how to use this forum as other folks do, but I came across this thread...
Thoughts On 5ar And Post Finasteride Syndrome

And this makes sense to me...


So with that said, what are some safe options and suggestions to go about increasing GABA quickly and effectively as well as 5ar activity in the brain?

I feel that this is absolutely what I need! And stumbling around this forum and elsewhere has kinda drawn me towards this conclusion. Even the old things that used to excite me sexually in the past, just don't seem to register like they once did. And mind you, this change happened almost overnight! Like within a week or so.

For the most part, I have a very stable mood, but at times do lack a little motivation or drive, but no major depression or axiety. Sometimes I can be slightly irritable, but most of the time right down the middle with everything.

I just want to re-awaken a part of my brain that thyroid seemed to somehow turn off.

Thank you so much in advance for any insight you all can provide!

As @MatheusPN already suggested, supplementing with only T4 is known to elevate reverse T3 (rT3) in some people to the point where it actually exacerbates the already existing mild/subclinical hypothyroidism (which is what your original diagnosis probably was according to the official guidelines for a TSH around 8). So, I would ask the doctor to check rT3 and if it is elevated or in the upper 20% then you may want to ask for T3 prescription and try that for some times. I can't give medical advice but if rT3 is high you will probably feel shitty no matter what isolated gonadal/adrenal hormone or neurotransmitter you try to balance.
Just my 2c.

 

[Dobbler]

^

 

[Sumbody]

As @MatheusPN already suggested, supplementing with only T4 is known to elevate reverse T3 (rT3) in some people to the point where it actually exacerbates the already existing mild/subclinical hypothyroidism (which is what your original diagnosis probably was according to the official guidelines for a TSH around 8). So, I would ask the doctor to check rT3 and if it is elevated or in the upper 20% then you may want to ask for T3 prescription and try that for some times. I can't give medical advice but if rT3 is high you will probably feel shitty no matter what isolated gonadal/adrenal hormone or neurotransmitter you try to balance.
Just my 2c.

Thanks!

I had kind of suspected some issue with rT3 in the past, taking only the T4, but the effect also occurred with low dose Tyromix 3 times a day. As well as a low dose of NDT.

I haven't tried T3 alone, but at this point I seem to be getting better with some other things I have been doing by focusing on the Gi tract.

I will definitely suggest further testing and see if I can get a doctor to oblige.

Thanks again!

 

[Diokine]

There are a few ways to analyze what you're describing, and hopefully we can work through some of the mechanisms of thyroid and the nervous system to gain a little better understanding of what may be happening. My general hypothesis is that the intake of exogenous thyroid hormone caused an augmentation of the sympathetic nervous system (this is one well documented effect of thyroid,) specifically adrenergic receptors, more specifically the alpha adrenergic receptors, extra specifically the alpha-1 adrenergic receptor. This augmentation pushed your system out of range and impacted the nervous control over your sexual response.

You described some symptoms early on that may support this;

At around the second week of supplementation, I started to notice slight dizziness, as well as a weird feeling of being overwhelmed or overstimulated by things I would see while shopping.

I think if you look for the possible symptoms of any sympathomimetics (drugs amplifying the sympathetic response,) you will find they will do exactly what you described.

At this time I also began to experience a very slight dull ache in my left testicle

Testicular innervation is pretty complicated, but there is good evidence to show that excessive alpha adrenergic stimulation of the testicle can initiate an inflammatory response, induction of COX-2 and IL-6 (inflammatory mediators,) which would be interpreted as pain.

Alpha 1 adrenergic receptor-mediated inflammatory responses in human testicular peritubular cells.

Our results suggest that stress-associated elevation of catecholamines may be able to promote inflammatory events by targeting peritubular cells in the human testis.

It's interesting you noted that the issue began on the left side. The nervous system exhibits significant lateralization, or side preference. This is because of the nervous tones generated by our clock structures and central pattern generators, which exist all throughout the nervous system. The left side is typically maintained with a higher frequency, and will usually manifest changes in sympathetic tone first.

Lateralized rhythms of the central and autonomic nervous systems

-------------------

Thyroid hormone is, suffice to say, pretty involved in the maintenance of the sympathetic nervous system, specifically adrenergic receptors. The balance of TRH, TSH, T3 and T4 is very important for determining the ratio and response of alpha and beta adrenergic receptors. The evidence suggests that the alpha-1 adrenergic system is very involved in the maintenance of thyroid hormone secretion. There are two types of secretion, basal and TSH-induced. Basal secretions are essentially a constant release of hormone from tissue, whereas TSH-induced secretions are increased in response to stimulation by TSH. Generally, alpha-1 adrenergic receptor agonism (activation) inhibits the response of the thyroid to TSH, though this response is very complex and part of a large feedback loop. Your TSH being as high as it was may indicate that this portion of your adrenergic response was blunted, for whatever reason.

So taking thyroid hormone increased the sensitivity of this adrenergic system greatly. This has significant effects in the autonomic and central nervous system, especially the areas in the hypothalamus which generate subtle timing structures involved in the sexual response. Luckily, since everything is in a constant feedback loop, barring significant neurological problems, you should recover with no issues. It may take some time for the proper timing structures to be regenerated, but focus on the proper maintenance of the circadian rhythm (light exposure and sleep, food intake) will be helpful. Some vitamin D may help with adrenergic fluency.

Please question anything you read here as it is all made up. I'm not a doctor and neither should you.

α1A-Adrenergic Receptor Antagonism Improves Erectile and Cavernosal Responses in Rats With Cavernous Nerve Injury and Enhances Neurogenic Responses in Human Corpus Cavernosum From Patients With Erectile Dysfunction Secondary to Radical Prostatectomy

α-Adrenergic modulation, especially selective α1A-blockade, improves erectile and cavernosal functions after BCNI. Modulation of the adrenergic system, mainly in combination strategies, could have a role in the management of ED after RP.

Effect of Local Alpha-Adrenergic Blockade on Human Penile Erection

Pharmacology of α-Adrenoceptors in Male Sexual Function

Role of alpha adrenergic receptors in erectile function

 

[Cirion]

What's the maximum amount of rT3 that the body can produce roughly? And how much T3 would you need to not only overcome this but have enough for normal body functioning?

I've seen some people here having to take like 150 mcg of T3 to function well, maybe for this reason (tons of rT3).

 

[Sumbody]

There are a few ways to analyze what you're describing, and hopefully we can work through some of the mechanisms of thyroid and the nervous system to gain a little better understanding of what may be happening. My general hypothesis is that the intake of exogenous thyroid hormone caused an augmentation of the sympathetic nervous system (this is one well documented effect of thyroid,) specifically adrenergic receptors, more specifically the alpha adrenergic receptors, extra specifically the alpha-1 adrenergic receptor. This augmentation pushed your system out of range and impacted the nervous control over your sexual response.

You described some symptoms early on that may support this;



I think if you look for the possible symptoms of any sympathomimetics (drugs amplifying the sympathetic response,) you will find they will do exactly what you described.



Testicular innervation is pretty complicated, but there is good evidence to show that excessive alpha adrenergic stimulation of the testicle can initiate an inflammatory response, induction of COX-2 and IL-6 (inflammatory mediators,) which would be interpreted as pain.

Alpha 1 adrenergic receptor-mediated inflammatory responses in human testicular peritubular cells.


It's interesting you noted that the issue began on the left side. The nervous system exhibits significant lateralization, or side preference. This is because of the nervous tones generated by our clock structures and central pattern generators, which exist all throughout the nervous system. The left side is typically maintained with a higher frequency, and will usually manifest changes in sympathetic tone first.

Lateralized rhythms of the central and autonomic nervous systems

-------------------

Thyroid hormone is, suffice to say, pretty involved in the maintenance of the sympathetic nervous system, specifically adrenergic receptors. The balance of TRH, TSH, T3 and T4 is very important for determining the ratio and response of alpha and beta adrenergic receptors. The evidence suggests that the alpha-1 adrenergic system is very involved in the maintenance of thyroid hormone secretion. There are two types of secretion, basal and TSH-induced. Basal secretions are essentially a constant release of hormone from tissue, whereas TSH-induced secretions are increased in response to stimulation by TSH. Generally, alpha-1 adrenergic receptor agonism (activation) inhibits the response of the thyroid to TSH, though this response is very complex and part of a large feedback loop. Your TSH being as high as it was may indicate that this portion of your adrenergic response was blunted, for whatever reason.

So taking thyroid hormone increased the sensitivity of this adrenergic system greatly. This has significant effects in the autonomic and central nervous system, especially the areas in the hypothalamus which generate subtle timing structures involved in the sexual response. Luckily, since everything is in a constant feedback loop, barring significant neurological problems, you should recover with no issues. It may take some time for the proper timing structures to be regenerated, but focus on the proper maintenance of the circadian rhythm (light exposure and sleep, food intake) will be helpful. Some vitamin D may help with adrenergic fluency.

Please question anything you read here as it is all made up. I'm not a doctor and neither should you.

α1A-Adrenergic Receptor Antagonism Improves Erectile and Cavernosal Responses in Rats With Cavernous Nerve Injury and Enhances Neurogenic Responses in Human Corpus Cavernosum From Patients With Erectile Dysfunction Secondary to Radical Prostatectomy


Effect of Local Alpha-Adrenergic Blockade on Human Penile Erection

Pharmacology of α-Adrenoceptors in Male Sexual Function

Role of alpha adrenergic receptors in erectile function

@Diokine this is so spot on, I can't thank you enough for your theory put forth!

I felt it all along that what I was experiencing seemed so much to do with the brain. It's like when your body is telling you something, or you have a gut instinct about something.

And much of what you stated makes sense with what I experienced. I literally told a doctor that "Something flipped off sex for me like a light switch". It's crazy how fast that change took place.

And even now sex and everything related to it at times just seems so bizarre. I miss the feelings and excitement/fantasies that once sparked things before.

I will definitely be doing more research on the things that you have presented here to me.

In your opinion how long do you think it could possibly take to recover to a state like I was before thyroid? It has been just over a year or so since I last tried using thyroid. I still don't feel 100% (in regards to sex drive and erection quality), but possibly getting better. It's just so hard to tell.

I will definitely focus on getting more sleep though as I probably only average 5-7 hours during the work week.

 

[teds]

I agree get labs , but I would add, detox your body and go off everything, clean out your colon and then start over. In my experience, people with estrogen dominance kind of have that overly dramatic way for putting things as well, like " I am ruined as a man" thing. No offense but go about this step by step calmly and start with a clean slate. Getting all that gunk out will take about 3 months if you really try to detox. A lot of times the thyroid is not functioning is because of toxicity.

This^^

Definitely not diminishing your experience but you’ve fixated (serotonin) and dramatized (estrogen).. seeing a councilor/therapist of some sort may also help. It’s a kind of medical injury that you’ve suffered.. that causes people a lot of mental anguish ..

 

[cihans]

Check your prolactin levels too

 

[Sumbody]

Check your prolactin levels too

Yes thank you! I'm going to do my best to convince a doctor this coming week to do further testing. Once I receive the results I will post them here.

 

[danishispsychic]

Ouch...

I know, it seems ouch but I have seen this a bunch- estro dom makes it all very drama, and when trying to heal.... it will makes things worse. Better to robot out and work on it like a project.

 

[Tarmander]

It's interesting you noted that the issue began on the left side. The nervous system exhibits significant lateralization, or side preference. This is because of the nervous tones generated by our clock structures and central pattern generators, which exist all throughout the nervous system. The left side is typically maintained with a higher frequency, and will usually manifest changes in sympathetic tone first.

Can you detail a bit more on this, or point to a source to read more on? My left side has always been more "alive" then my right...meaning more raised, more possible eye brow movement, that kind of thing.

Not to steal the thread or anything...

 

[BigChad]

Before you jump from one crazy supplement recommendation to the next, get bloodwork done. Everything else would be guesswork.
Estradiol sensitive
Testosterone, Fee, Total
DHEA
LH & FSH
DHT

What are good values for estradiol, LH and FSH and testosterone

 

[Diokine]

@Tarmander

Did you look at the source I linked under that quoted text? It's pretty good.

 

[thomas00]

TSH now is 4.x. Please note my quotations around what the medical field considers "normal" in my original post. I am well aware of what Dr. Peat suggests. Hence my quotations may be kicking in a direction of sarcasm on that fact toward the mainstream medical community.

I was subclinically hypothyroid for who knows how long prior to the T4 prescription. T3 and T4 in the normal range, and TSH being 7-8 all the while having a raging libido, rock hard erections and muscle throughout. Although at this time I did start to accumulate a little body fat. At the time I was 35. My TSH was elevated for at least 6-9 months to my knowledge and probably much longer prior to supplementation.

I never had any problems with mood, libido, performance, gaining muscle, having energy, etc. Even while my TSH was elevated.

That's interesting. Did you have any other signs of hypothyroidism when your TSH was that high? Cold extremities etc? Was your temperature and pulse good?

I can't remember if you have posted this already but have you had your prolactin measured? High prolactin can cause all that sexual dysfunction stuff.

Seems like getting your TSH down should be a priority when it's still at 4....if you aren't keen on taking thyroid could you use caffeine to get it down, if you aren't already using it?

 

[Sumbody]

That's interesting. Did you have any other signs of hypothyroidism when your TSH was that high? Cold extremities etc? Was your temperature and pulse good?

I can't remember if you have posted this already but have you had your prolactin measured? High prolactin can cause all that sexual dysfunction stuff.

Seems like getting your TSH down should be a priority when it's still at 4....if you aren't keen on taking thyroid could you use caffeine to get it down, if you aren't already using it?

I don't remember having any other signs then, maybe a little bit of depression, but I attributed that to some things that were going on in my life at the time. I wasn't taking pulse and temps.

I haven't tested prolactin no, but I would like to do that soon as well as other hormones.

Yes, I am still working towards lowering TSH and am very excited about the progress I've had thus far.

Interesting thing about caffeine is that I almost never consume it, as I don't drink coffee regularly, although I have nothing against it and do appreciate it's taste. I do drink an occasional RedBull maybe once a week or two. I almost never drink soda either.

If I consume a high dose of caffeine with food in my belly, I'm good!

But if I don't eat, 20-30min later I will be sicker than hell! Like low blood sugar sick, gotta lay down and collect myself for a while. I can't remember what that means, but I know if I consumed it more often I would get over that?

My glycogen stores are good, I can work all day hard labor without eating, and of course, I get hungry after a while, but I don't seem to have a problem with energy levels. I almost never do that, unless for some reason I feel like fasting for the day which is very rare.

 

[thomas00]

If I consume a high dose of caffeine with food in my belly, I'm good!

But if I don't eat, 20-30min later I will be sicker than hell! Like low blood sugar sick, gotta lay down and collect myself for a while. I can't remember what that means, but I know if I consumed it more often I would get over that?

Caffeine increases your metabolic rate, so it's important to take it with food, including enough sugar

 

[Sumbody]

Exactly!

It blows my mind how a lot of people can consume 5-6 cups of coffee on an empty stomach. Or a huge can of Monster with like 350mg caffeine.

Crazyness

 

[ebs]

I tried Androsterone, but I won't touch it after trying it only a few times. Very weird stuff with that and there does seem to be something to it that can create tension/social problems that I experienced, as others did as well on the forum.

Same here. Interesting you mention that. Androsterone makes me feel "off" too, even just one drop. It makes me socially very uncomfortable because of how it makes me feel. The possible gaba effect may be too strong because it also turns off my emotions. However at the same time I feel very uncomfortable (and vulnerable) when I go outside. It's possible that those unfamiliar feelings just make me anxious as I don't know how to deal with it. Progesterone has the opposite effect and seems to benefit me more.

 

[syncronicity]

With a TSH that high your strong erections prior to taking T4 may have likely been from elevated levels of nitric oxide which go hand in hand with endotoxin. NO is the mediator for vasodilation during hypoxia, Viagra works by increasing NO, same as Rogaine. During hypoxia your CO2 levels decrease along with vasodilation, and is mediated by NO. The T4 or perhaps other nutritional and/or lifestyle changes made at the same time may likely have set off a cascade that altered NO. When stress mediators are lowered one experiences their background state and it can be disappointing compared to the stress mediated performance (e.g., performance enhancements from adrenaline ). You’ve made a number of side comments about depression, gut health, etc. that indicate your metabolism wasn’t optimal prior to the T4. Often is the case that stress mediators slowly and regularly become the relied-upon background physiology that folks become adjusted to, to shore up metabolic deficiencies, and when a particular life function becomes adversely impacted, like sex, one begins to take stock of what’s occurring. Focusing on gut health, liver/glycogen stores, shoring-up nutritional deficiencies, getting your thyroid active, possibly trialing T3, improving your CO2 production, GABA as you mentioned, will likely improve your sexual function, or take viagra :).