Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome

[TheSir]

Yes, there’s also a reason people have lived in slavery, serfdom and feudalism for thousands of years.

Do you suppose that this reason was lack of incentive for masturbatory pursuits?

The reason spiritual schools of thought cautioned against masturbation was because ejaculation was believed to diminish inner awareness of God. The reason medicinal schools of thought cautioned against masturbation was because ejaculation was said to shorten lifespan, lessen vigor and lead to diseases. The reason mystic and occult schools of thought cautioned against masturbation was because intuitive and psychic powers were believed to be founded on a strong and abundant base of sexual energy.

What, in your view, is the primary reason people have lived in slavery, serfdom and feudalism for thousands of years?

 

[Pet Peeve]

I would say most soaps and shampoos contain estrogenlike chemicals. Parabens is one suspect. Peat has also mentioned how soap is an endocrine disruptor. Use a lot of commercial cleaning products?

 

[LUH 3417]

Do you suppose that this reason was lack of incentive for masturbatory pursuits?

The reason spiritual schools of thought cautioned against masturbation was because ejaculation was believed to diminish inner awareness of God. The reason medicinal schools of thought cautioned against masturbation was because ejaculation was said to shorten lifespan, lessen vigor and lead to diseases. The reason mystic and occult schools of thought cautioned against masturbation was because intuitive and psychic powers were believed to be founded on a strong and abundant base of sexual energy.

What, in your view, is the primary reason people have lived in slavery, serfdom and feudalism for thousands of years?

Blindly following mystical and occult explanations rather than bodily experience. The idea that sexual energy or desire has a limit and must be conserved is akin to hoarding any other resource. It represents a poverty of imagination.

 

[postman]

Blindly following mystical and occult explanations rather than bodily experience. The idea that sexual energy or desire has a limit and must be conserved is akin to hoarding any other resource. It represents a poverty of imagination.

Really now? What bodily experience are you talking about, as a woman, when it comes to male ejaculation? Or are you maybe just regurgitating some dogmatic thing you've read?

 

[LUH 3417]

Really now? What bodily experience are you talking about, as a woman, when it comes to male ejaculation? Or are you maybe just regurgitating some dogmatic thing you've read?

A full orgasm leads to complete relaxation of the body. Feeling tension, dread, and drained after an orgasm probably means you are repressed, blocked, and neurotic. Plus if you’re circumcised I doubt you’re capable of full sexual release and feeling.

 

[LUH 3417]

Really now? What bodily experience are you talking about, as a woman, when it comes to male ejaculation? Or are you maybe just regurgitating some dogmatic thing you've read?

Since you mentioned dogma, there’s a school of Taoist sexual practice that claims orgasm is healing and rejuvenating. But of course the female should be barely pubescent.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Explore away fapstronauts, but be careful. The technique most promoted on many of these websites, the one where you press the jen mo spot between your anus and testicles, will lead to inflamation of the prostate in most cases. I have had first hand experience with this many years ago (these silly ideas are not new) and so have thousands of others whos experiences you can find online. Painful it is, and, when it strikes, you will regret turning a once uncomplicated pleasurable experience into a headache.

If you are ancient and sickly, some of these techniques may be useful, but young and healthy men should not require this. If you must, I would recommend practicing separating ejaculation from orgasm using purely the mind without potentially harmful physical intervention.

As far as Catholic priests having different prostate outcomes due to celibacy, why would you assume they are celibate and how do you know their prostate outcomes are not due to being repeatedly blasted in the back passage by their brothers of the cloth?

 

[postman]

A full orgasm leads to complete relaxation of the body. Feeling tension, dread, and drained after an orgasm probably means you are repressed, blocked, and neurotic. Plus if you’re circumcised I doubt you’re capable of full sexual release and feeling.

Making such a strong assertion of a psychological basis for a health condition that a lot of people have experienced for thousands of years, that for some people have gotten worse, for others have gotten better, and that some people have cured with various medicinal therapies, a condition that you haven't experienced and cannot possibly experience, while at the same time citing the importance of bodily experience, probably means that you're the one with a mental problem.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Men who are sexually active in their 20s and 30s are more likely to develop prostate cancer:
Masturbation May Increase Risk of Prostate Cancer | Live Science​

Abject drivel. Haidut has repudiated the notion in many a post.

This reasoning is in line with the anti-metabolic idea of a fixed number of heart beats necessitating slowing down the body in order to live longer. Sin avoidance. Highly puritanical. Half expecting the next link to say red meat causes acute chronic severe death.

 

[LUH 3417]

Making such a strong assertion of a psychological basis for a health condition that a lot of people have experienced for thousands of years, that for some people have gotten worse, for others have gotten better, and that some people have cured with various medicinal therapies, a condition that you haven't experienced and cannot possibly experience, while at the same time citing the importance of bodily experience, probably means that you're the one with a mental problem.

Ok doc.

 

[LUH 3417]

Abject drivel. Haidut has repudiated the notion in many a post.

This reasoning is in line with the anti-metabolic idea of a fixed number of heart beats necessitating slowing down the body in order to live longer. Sin avoidance. Highly puritanical. Half expecting the next link to say red meat causes acute chronic severe death.

It says in some Indian yogic text that you are born with a certain number of breaths so you must slow your breathing to live a longer life.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

It says in some Indian yogic text that you are born with a certain number of breaths so you must slow your breathing to live a longer life.

No wonder my father struggled to find local business partners who could accomplish anything in that sauna of a country.

 

[TheSir]

Blindly following mystical and occult explanations rather than bodily experience.

Excellent. I very much agree that you should follow your own bodily experience. After all, this is how all sentiments regarding celibacy have been born, from countless men finding out the effects for themselves.

The idea that sexual energy or desire has a limit and must be conserved is akin to hoarding any other resource. It represents a poverty of imagination.

Does saving money so that you can buy a house for your beloved family represent a poverty of imagination to you, too? Conversing sexual energy so that you can gift larger focus and clarity to the aspects of life that you hold the most dearest is no different.

Abject drivel. Haidut has repudiated the notion in many a post.

I am sure Haidut appreciates your willingness to defend his opinions on his behalf. What a true friend he has in you.

This reasoning is in line with the anti-metabolic idea of a fixed number of heart beats necessitating slowing down the body in order to live longer. Sin avoidance. Highly puritanical. Half expecting the next link to say red meat causes acute chronic severe death.

To the contrary. As the studies I linked are hinting towards, abstaining from ejaculation has pro-metabolic consequences, As @redsun noted, ejaculation results in a cascade of unfavorable hormonal consequences, from increased prolactin to lessened sensitization to testosterone and dopamine on all hypothalamic-gonadal axes. As far as hypothalamus is concerned, weed and orgasm are anti-metabolic in the same way, with both of them leading to desensitization of CB1-receptors.

 

[LUH 3417]

Excellent. I very much agree that you should follow your own bodily experience. After all, this is how all sentiments regarding celibacy have been born, from countless men finding out the effects for themselves.

Does saving money so that you can buy a house for your beloved family represent a poverty of imagination to you, too? Conversing sexual energy so that you can gift larger focus and clarity to the aspects of life that you hold the most dearest is no different.

I am sure Haidut appreciates your willingness to defend his opinions on his behalf. What a true friend he has in you.

To the contrary. As the studies I linked are hinting towards, abstaining from ejaculation has pro-metabolic consequences, As @redsun noted, ejaculation results in a cascade of unfavorable hormonal consequences, from increased prolactin to lessened sensitization to testosterone and dopamine on all hypothalamic-gonadal axes. As far as hypothalamus is concerned, weed and orgasm are anti-metabolic in the same way, with both of them leading to desensitization of CB1-receptors.

Money is an abstract resource. Energy is materially bound.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

I am sure Haidut appreciates your willingness to defend his opinions on his behalf. What a true friend he has in you.

Actually I have disagreed with him directly under at least one post on this forum (carbs good, fat bad because muh Tismaine) and indirectly in many others but fair play

To the contrary. As the studies I linked are hinting towards, abstaining from ejaculation has pro-metabolic consequences, As @redsun noted, ejaculation results in a cascade of unfavorable hormonal consequences, from increased prolactin to lessened sensitization to testosterone and dopamine on all hypothalamic-gonadal axes. As far as hypothalamus is concerned, weed and orgasm are anti-metabolic in the same way, with both of them leading to desensitization of CB1-receptors.

There may be short term negatives post-orgasm; however, to label the experience anti-metabolic is to deny the cardiovascular and systemic stress lowering benefits. Also you picked one study with negative prostate outcomes in 20-30 year olds but forgot to mention the study on 50+ men with positive prostate outcomes. The healthier you make yourself, the shorter the refractory period can become. One of my sister's coaches said he judged dancers' fitness by how quickly they caught their breath between performance drills. Is it fair to say, all else equal, that the man with a shorter refractory period is the healthier of the two? If so, avoiding orgasm seems like circumventing the problem instead of curing it.

I'll admit that the benefits of sex seem to favour women a bit more. I'll also admit that there can be such a thing as too much orgasm for men. As a non-masturbator and a twice-a-week kind of guy, I don't think I know what too much sex is. My dad once said that sex is 2% of life, and I guess, outside of honeymoon phases, it seems realistic.

Many years ago I read that Taoists believed the average amount of ejaculate to contain the nutritional equivalent of 250 grams of meat, 2 eggs, 2 oranges, and 4 lemons. If I eat an extra beef and fruit meal on mating days, supplement ungodly amounts of micronutrient isolates throughout the week, and exercise every other day, are my outcomes equivalent to that of an incel who smokes cannabis?

 

[redsun]

Excellent. I very much agree that you should follow your own bodily experience. After all, this is how all sentiments regarding celibacy have been born, from countless men finding out the effects for themselves.

Does saving money so that you can buy a house for your beloved family represent a poverty of imagination to you, too? Conversing sexual energy so that you can gift larger focus and clarity to the aspects of life that you hold the most dearest is no different.

I am sure Haidut appreciates your willingness to defend his opinions on his behalf. What a true friend he has in you.

To the contrary. As the studies I linked are hinting towards, abstaining from ejaculation has pro-metabolic consequences, As @redsun noted, ejaculation results in a cascade of unfavorable hormonal consequences, from increased prolactin to lessened sensitization to testosterone and dopamine on all hypothalamic-gonadal axes. As far as hypothalamus is concerned, weed and orgasm are anti-metabolic in the same way, with both of them leading to desensitization of CB1-receptors.

Do not mention me and make it seem like I considered this changes caused by orgasm are unfavorable. I never said that. Do you understand the purpose of the super high conversion of noradrenaline caused by orgasm? Noradrenaline brings the erection down.

And noradrenaline isn't a particularly bad neurotransmitter to begin with. It's actually very good and necessary for daily life. Are you one of those dopatards that thinks dopamine is the end all be all for achieving a desirable mental state?

The post-orgasm effects are not "negatives" they are a natural consequence of orgasm which are meant to happen. You seem to think the body is wrong and doesnt know what it is doing and does things that are not good for it. Your body is smarter than you and all your religious abstaining idols. You argue with a veil over your eyes which is the same for everyone that tries to argue with religion nonsense as their prime motivator.

 

[TheSir]

Money is an abstract resource. Energy is materially bound.

Though aptly put, the relevancy of this distinction eludes me. What are you trying to assert?

There may be short term negatives post-orgasm;

I would argue that the short-term negatives of an orgasm are actually longer than the short term benefits of an orgasm: whereas an ejaculation-induced relaxation will diminish in a few hours, prolactin will continue to be released in gradually lessening bursts for the next few days. In addition, various other metabolic processes are called in aid to replace what was lost through the expulsion of semen. The metabolic-hormonal system of someone who is ejaculating several times a week would therefore never be in a fully recovered state.

however, to label the experience anti-metabolic is to deny the cardiovascular and systemic stress lowering benefits.

It is good to keep in mind that an experience can have an overall anti-metabolic effect regardless of its temporary stress-lowering properties. To give a hyperbolic example, IV'ing heroin has systemic stress lowering benefits. Yet would it be fair to call heroin pro-metabolic due to this fact alone?

The healthier you make yourself, the shorter the refractory period can become. Is it fair to say, all else equal, that the man with a shorter refractory period is the healthier of the two?

Sounds fair to me: the man with the stronger health would have quicker recovery from any kind of abuse you put him through. However...

If so, avoiding orgasm seems like circumventing the problem instead of curing it.

avoiding a negative action because your state of health makes it even more negative could not be called "circumventing the problem", because in reality, there would be two separate problems: the negative action in itself, and your heightened response to it. While we agree that exquisite state of health can lower the consequences of harmful actions to seemingly imperceptible levels, it doesn't transform the fundamental nature of the action. "Getting away" with something is not equal to "doing good".

[I hope you didn't mind me cutting your post into so small pieces, there just were so many premises and assumptions that I wanted to address hidden in between the lines.]

Do not mention me and make it seem like I considered this changes caused by orgasm are unfavorable. I never said that.

Be at ease. I did not intend to use your post as proof of my views. Rather, I tried to acknowledge that others, too, acknowledge the mechanisms I am talking about, even if my interpretation of the consequences of these mechanisms differs.

The post-orgasm effects are not "negatives" they are a natural consequence of orgasm which are meant to happen. You seem to think the body is wrong and doesnt know what it is doing and does things that are not good for it.

Negativity is contextual. There are contextually proper and improper consequences to an action. Ejaculation relaxes the body and makes you content. I am sure you can come up with many situations in which relaxation and contentment is the opposite of what you want to summon.

Moreover, reproduction is the prime purpose of the body. Your genes want you to reproduce, even at the price of your own health, because the genes are more precious than the individual carrying them. Your body of course does all it can to recover from ejaculation, but viewing a liberal expulsion of energy & nutrients as a net gain to the body is an unscientific and nonsensical point of view.

Your body is smarter than you and all your religious abstaining idols. You argue with a veil over your eyes which is the same for everyone that tries to argue with religion nonsense as their prime motivator.

I think this is more about how you have chosen to perceive me, than what I have chosen to represent in this thread. I have no religious idols, nor do I argue from a religious framework, but an empirical, anecdotal and scientific one.

 

[Kunstruct]

It says in some Indian yogic text that you are born with a certain number of breaths so you must slow your breathing to live a longer life.

What about all the people that are pro athletes and live a lot?

 

[Frankdee20]

Why are the effects of self induced orgasm so awful versus sexually induced orgasm ? I notice a significant difference in me between the 2.....

 

[TheSir]

Why are the effects of self induced orgasm so awful versus sexually induced orgasm ? I notice a significant difference in me between the 2.....

For one, physical contact with another human being releases oxytocin, which largely negates the inhibitory effects of prolactin. Secondly, on a less concrete level, in sex there occurs an exchange of whatever energies you and your lover consist of: emotions, pheromones, nutrients, and so on. During masturbation you only give away, without getting anything back.