Help Me! Post Finasteride Sindrome

[Pedro Melo]

its a mad disease. i have it too. when taking fin, i sleept 11h a day, was quiet ok with high libido,a bit puffy and clouded thinking. when i quit cold turky i developped severe insomnia,anxiety, lowest immunesystem ever, and fatigue due to bad sleep.
i found mesures to imrove, but sleep is still nowhere near refreshing.

Like me bro... Tooling fin my sleep was so good... Now. I can't even sleep straight, wake up like someone has beat me full of cramps and spasms in my legs, working or leave my house it's a nightmare... Wish I'd never touched this pill.
Digestion is so horrible, that if I eat a little bit more kcal i feel bloated all the day, like and endless digestion. And funyt thing, my hair is falling like crazy porbaly due to cortisol... What a nightmare

 

[REOSIRENS]

Thyroid and cyproheptadine...

Triiodothyronine stimulates, lowers prolactin and parathyroid and keeps acetylcholinesterase active...

Cyproheptadine lowers serotonin estrogen and potentiate GABA inhibitory actions and protects against androgenic deficiency

For neurological protection pregnelone with 7-oxo-dhea


Progesterone low dose is good as well
Fill empty gelatin caps number 1 or 2 with progest e liquid

Number 1 for high stimulation
Number 2 for low stimulation

Thymus extract is good for depression and improves motivation

 

[broozer]

Thyroid and cyproheptadine...

Triiodothyronine stimulates, lowers prolactin and parathyroid and keeps acetylcholinesterase active...

Cyproheptadine lowers serotonin estrogen and potentiate GABA inhibitory actions and protects against androgenic deficiency

For neurological protection pregnelone with 7-oxo-dhea


Progesterone low dose is good as well
Fill empty gelatin caps number 1 or 2 with progest e liquid

Number 1 for high stimulation
Number 2 for low stimulation

Thymus extract is good for depression and improves motivation

okay so thyroid is goo for drive. and cypro? for sleep? can one take it longterm?
DHEA i am not sure...my DHEAs levels are exaxtls midrange

 

[stevrd]

To add to this discussion, I have recently had some success with haidut's 5a-dhp. Supps I am currently on: 3 grains of NTD/day + .5mg cyproheptadine/day, Vit K2/D3 weekly. With the addition of 5a-dhp I am mentally more clear, brain fog is lifted, and more social, less desire to procrastinate or be withdrawn from society.

If you read my history, I have a hx of hypogonadism with T levels in the 200s. I never cycled with AAS or anything so this was from natural causes, over-training/under-eating, typical of stage-ready bodybuilders/marathon runners. I also used accutane for a good year so I'm not sure if that plays a role, but I did have low testosterone prior to using accutane so I can confirm that the medication wasn't the initial cause. But it could have added fuel to the fire. Over the years I have been able to raise my testosterone to the 600 range through diet, rest/sleep, and thyroid supplementation. I only recently added cyproheptadine, which has been a big help in improving sleep. I consider myself 90% recovered.

Lately, my only two complaints are brain fog and libido. My erection function is good, but could be better. I regularly get morning erections, and perform well during intercourse, however libido is low-ish. Brain fog/fatigue sometimes gets in the way of daily activities/work.

Because I have normal testosterone levels now, and still have some issues, this has led me to research other causes of libido/brain fog. What I noticed is that most men in the PFS community have normal testosterone/DHT levels, despite poor erection function/low libido. Studies have shown that PFS patients have one unique characteristic, they tend to have low 3a hydroxysteroid/allopregnanolone levels. So naturally, replacing allopregnanolone might actually be what a lot of these men need. As some have indicated on the forum, PFS may be a neurological-based issue, not an issue with testosterone/DHT production.

 

[Pedro Melo]

To add to this discussion, I have recently had some success with haidut's 5a-dhp. Supps I am currently on: 3 grains of NTD/day + .5mg cyproheptadine/day, Vit K2/D3 weekly. With the addition of 5a-dhp I am mentally more clear, brain fog is lifted, and more social, less desire to procrastinate or be withdrawn from society.

If you read my history, I have a hx of hypogonadism with T levels in the 200s. I never cycled with AAS or anything so this was from natural causes, over-training/under-eating, typical of stage-ready bodybuilders/marathon runners. I also used accutane for a good year so I'm not sure if that plays a role, but I did have low testosterone prior to using accutane so I can confirm that the medication wasn't the initial cause. But it could have added fuel to the fire. Over the years I have been able to raise my testosterone to the 600 range through diet, rest/sleep, and thyroid supplementation. I only recently added cyproheptadine, which has been a big help in improving sleep. I consider myself 90% recovered.

Lately, my only two complaints are brain fog and libido. My erection function is good, but could be better. I regularly get morning erections, and perform well during intercourse, however libido is low-ish. Brain fog/fatigue sometimes gets in the way of daily activities/work.

Because I have normal testosterone levels now, and still have some issues, this has led me to research other causes of libido/brain fog. What I noticed is that most men in the PFS community have normal testosterone/DHT levels, despite poor erection function/low libido. Studies have shown that PFS patients have one unique characteristic, they tend to have low 3a hydroxysteroid/allopregnanolone levels. So naturally, replacing allopregnanolone might actually be what a lot of these men need. As some have indicated on the forum, PFS may be a neurological-based issue, not an issue with testosterone/DHT production.

In my case my testo DHT estro prolactina and progesteron are high... Pfs is more than hormones. I'm feeling sick.my .auto immune sistem sinoky is not working( bloating all day, eyes dry, pain in my teeth, bad stools...) Libido is under 0... Really this is a living hell. My sleeping is ridiculous. I get even more tired wgen i wake up like someone has punched my legs, little cramps alp over my body. Waiting for hair test and hormone test, but nothing abnormal ever comes... Almost giving up

 

[stevrd]

In my case my testo DHT estro prolactina and progesteron are high... Pfs is more than hormones. I'm feeling sick.my .auto immune sistem sinoky is not working( bloating all day, eyes dry, pain in my teeth, bad stools...) Libido is under 0... Really this is a living hell. My sleeping is ridiculous. I get even more tired wgen i wake up like someone has punched my legs, little cramps alp over my body. Waiting for hair test and hormone test, but nothing abnormal ever comes... Almost giving up

Don't give up. There are so many things it could be. It's always worth looking. Do you have comprehensive labs? Prolactin is high? How high? You need to get good sleep before you fix any of your issues. You cannot fix any of the issues you just stated without first getting rest. To get rest, there are a few strategies- try to actively lower adrenaline before bed, eat something salty/sweet, relax and get warm prior to going to bed, give yourself more than 8 hours of time to sleep. If you wake up at 6am, go to bed at 8pm. You need to be in a state of low-anxiety for good sleep, and trying to go to bed at 12am and wake up at 6am is already setting yourself up for sleep anxiety, looking at the clock, putting pressure on yourself to fall asleep. Also, make sure you are eating enough calories throughout the day, preferably at least 30kcal/kg. Start early in the day, have breakfast and eat frequent snacks and nutritious meals that taste good. This is all so that you can best manage blood sugar and keep cortisol levels from climbing from low blood sugar/stress. Rest and food is what got me like 80% of my results, thyroid the other 10%. Now I'm working on the last 10%.

 

[foodandtheworld]

I would consider a consultation with Danny Roddy, as I believe he has worked with other men dealing with similar predicaments after injury from finasteride. I agree with @steverd's comments about not giving up, and especially about making sure to eat enough calories. Those are really crucial with enough protein to help repair damage.

 

[Pedro Melo]

Prolactina is 25, macimum range is 20!!!!
Cortisol levels are sky high also, and I've probably developed some kind of bugs coz NY digestion and teeth are hurting all the time. I can sleep and fall a sleep but the morning is difficult. I can only wake up at 11/12 to compensate my poor rest. How can i reach Danny Roddy? My erections are unexistant right now, my oenis and testicles are smaller...
About kcal I have an avetage of protein of 2g/3g per kilo. In hackstasis they carea lot about fasting saying intermittent fasrig can help lowering cortisol to put potassium in the cell... Now I don't know. I feel a mess

 

[stevrd]

@Pedro Melo You may want to look into getting an MRI done to see if you have a pituitary tumor. Though I would not say your prolactin is high enough for it, some men have only moderately high prolactin and do have pituitary tumors. If you can rule that out then you can try to lower it through increasing your metabolism, getting body temperature up through food and possibly a thyroid supplement. You could try a well-known prolactin-lowering supplement regimen of Vitamin E, Calcium, and P5P. Some people like zinc, but I don't because too much blocks 5ar conversion. I know Peat doesn't agree with it, but some people find relief from a drug called cabergoline at moderate doses of .5mg 2x/wk. But if you go this route, I would not use this for a long term because it is known to cause heart issues if used chronically. Using cabergoline was a way for me to rule out prolactin as a cause of my issues because it did not produce good effects in me. Lowering prolactin for me did not improve my symptoms. For me it was 90% low metabolic rate. My waking temps were 96, cold hands and feet all the time. In other words, even though my blood work was normal, my body was telling me I was hypometabolic.

For me good food, rest/sleep and sunlight works better than any supplement or drug. If I had to choose only one supplement it would be dessicated thyroid. It is the basic anti-stress hormones and if one is hypometabolic, he can use it to increase the metabolic rate, which can then convert cholesterol into youthful steroids. Studies show that people who are hyperthyroid often have supraphysiological testosterone levels. Many men are hypothyroid, and as a result they have low testosterone. In the simplest of terms, it's not complicated, and it can be looked at from a purely mathematical perspective; how much thyroid you're producing = how much steroids you're producing.

As @foodandtheworld stated above, you could try Danny Roddy. He may have you drinking a lot of milk and OJ. I am not necessarily against this, but excess liquids is the #1 thing people who follow Peat's work fail with. I think recommending an excessive amount of fluids is not the most responsible thing because it goes against your body's auto-regulation. In doing so, you are turning your diet into a supplement, only consuming calories, protein, and fat, not amazing and delicious food. This can have wide-reaching negative effects on people, namely low dopamine production, avoiding social eating situations, orthorexia, etc...

I'm not saying abandon liquids, but try to listen to your body. If consuming more milk and OJ seems repulsive try something else. Lastly, one way around some of the negative effects of consuming lots of liquids is simply heating them up. You see when you drink cold drinks, body temperature decreases. Any time the body temp decreases you release stress hormones, adrenaline namely, but possibly cortisol. By heating the liquids up, you are able to avoid a lot of the negative effects.

 

[Pedro Melo]

Too much things here. I heard about cabergoline yes, tlaked about that with my endo. He said value is not high to have a tumor. My tah value is 1.0 in a scale between 0.5 and 4, meaning I'm hiperthyroid and metabolism probably high( I've worked out a lot but allways struggle in gaining weight) .
Body temperature maybe you're right. My nose is very cold and my penis is cold also almost disappearing. In terms of diet I control it well. 3g protein kg, 2 g carb kg and 1 g good fat kilo.
My energy is super low due to the lack of sleeping so cortisol should be high. My testo is super high( last time I've measured it was above the maximum range) now waiting for new lab tests. But this imunr sistem of mine is intriguing me. Probably i can't sleep coz of the bugs. Bad stools, and pain on my teeth are the proof I guess. My blood sugar is high even if I'm fasting ( between 90/100 above that is ore diabetes. So OJ and milk probably not the bets option coz my insulin probably is not working correctly with this pfs thing... As you see a lot of variables here, I agree with you about prolactin but in my vase i think lower it will give me more libido and less gyno( yeah I have this ******* gyno, in fact it was the first symptom of my pfs)...

 

[stevrd]

A TSH of 1 is not "hyperthyroid." That is a normal value. In fact even less than 1 is not necessarily hyperthyroidism. Normal TSH range is .4 to 4. You would need high T4 and T3 levels as well to have hyperthyroidism. Typically you would have symptoms to go along with it like excess sweating, unanticipated weight loss, tachycardia, etc... Usually when people are hyperthyroid there are distinct characteristics that are easily identifiable. Yes gyno is strongly correlated with excess prolactin.

Fasting BG levels of 90 to 100 is not prediabetic. Only if your fasting levels are >100 should you worry. IMO your protein intake is too high in relation to your carb intake. Studies have shown that an optimal carb to protein ratio is at least 2:1, and higher than that is not detrimental. I've seen guys have success on 4:1 carb to protein ratio where other ratios have failed. When your carb intake is high protein needs are lower. For active individuals, studies have shown that protein needs are at most .8g/lb or about 1.75g/kg, not 2-3g/kg. This is for athletes that exercise 4+ hours per day. So if .8g is enough for them, it's definitely enough for you.

If your testosterone is high then your estrogen will typically also be high. A good ratio of T:E for fertility purposes is around 18 to 20.

I don't know much about the bugs you are referring to but you should probably see a specialist that handles that sort of thing.

 

[Pedro Melo]

A TSH of 1 is not "hyperthyroid." That is a normal value. In fact even less than 1 is not necessarily hyperthyroidism. Normal TSH range is .4 to 4. You would need high T4 and T3 levels as well to have hyperthyroidism. Typically you would have symptoms to go along with it like excess sweating, unanticipated weight loss, tachycardia, etc... Usually when people are hyperthyroid there are distinct characteristics that are easily identifiable. Yes gyno is strongly correlated with excess prolactin.

Fasting BG levels of 90 to 100 is not prediabetic. Only if your fasting levels are >100 should you worry. IMO your protein intake is too high in relation to your carb intake. Studies have shown that an optimal carb to protein ratio is at least 2:1, and higher than that is not detrimental. I've seen guys have success on 4:1 carb to protein ratio where other ratios have failed. When your carb intake is high protein needs are lower. For active individuals, studies have shown that protein needs are at most .8g/lb or about 1.75g/kg, not 2-3g/kg. This is for athletes that exercise 4+ hours per day. So if .8g is enough for them, it's definitely enough for you.

If your testosterone is high then your estrogen will typically also be high. A good ratio of T:E for fertility purposes is around 18 to 20.

I don't know much about the bugs you are referring to but you should probably see a specialist that handles that sort of thing.

How can I contact this dany Roddy guy? I have my label tests( they are in Portuguese but I think you can understand... Dhea is superrr high and this is correlated with hair loss according to Danny Roddy. My dht is lower than when I was taking fin( wtf??) Last time I've measured my estradiol was mid range. Prolactin dropped tho which I think is a good thing.
The bugs I'm referring its gut bugs, like the ones you can test in stools and ***t like that...
About the diet I agree with you although I feel better on higher protein intake and carbs always gave me extra fat specially in my belly that's why i cut them. Still 3/2 ratio seeks good to me.
Here are the latest tests, some hormones I've measured before and you can see the before result and compare

 

[REOSIRENS]

okay so thyroid is goo for drive. and cypro? for sleep? can one take it longterm?
DHEA i am not sure...my DHEAs levels are exaxtls midrange

Triiodothyronine lowers prolactin and androgens as well so it's good packed with levothyroxine or niacinamide magnesium and potassium to help testosterone production and avoid hypoglycemia

 

[REOSIRENS]

Cyproheptadine you should use only when it is necessary to protect you against overstimulation and stressful hypoglycemia


I recommend 7oxo dhea not dhea(can be aromatized)

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

To add to this discussion, I have recently had some success with haidut's 5a-dhp. Supps I am currently on: 3 grains of NTD/day + .5mg cyproheptadine/day, Vit K2/D3 weekly. With the addition of 5a-dhp I am mentally more clear, brain fog is lifted, and more social, less desire to procrastinate or be withdrawn from society.

If you read my history, I have a hx of hypogonadism with T levels in the 200s. I never cycled with AAS or anything so this was from natural causes, over-training/under-eating, typical of stage-ready bodybuilders/marathon runners. I also used accutane for a good year so I'm not sure if that plays a role, but I did have low testosterone prior to using accutane so I can confirm that the medication wasn't the initial cause. But it could have added fuel to the fire. Over the years I have been able to raise my testosterone to the 600 range through diet, rest/sleep, and thyroid supplementation. I only recently added cyproheptadine, which has been a big help in improving sleep. I consider myself 90% recovered.

Lately, my only two complaints are brain fog and libido. My erection function is good, but could be better. I regularly get morning erections, and perform well during intercourse, however libido is low-ish. Brain fog/fatigue sometimes gets in the way of daily activities/work.

Because I have normal testosterone levels now, and still have some issues, this has led me to research other causes of libido/brain fog. What I noticed is that most men in the PFS community have normal testosterone/DHT levels, despite poor erection function/low libido. Studies have shown that PFS patients have one unique characteristic, they tend to have low 3a hydroxysteroid/allopregnanolone levels. So naturally, replacing allopregnanolone might actually be what a lot of these men need. As some have indicated on the forum, PFS may be a neurological-based issue, not an issue with testosterone/DHT production.

I think more research should be done on Accutane as it’s not really given any limelight compared to Finasteride and Dutasteride. That said I took Accutane for a year and I feel many of the same issues as you.

 

[broozer]

Triiodothyronine lowers prolactin and androgens as well so it's good packed with levothyroxine or niacinamide magnesium and potassium to help testosterone production and avoid hypoglycemia

hang on...so t3 actually lowers androgens? will supplementing t4 result in higher t3 in the system?
i am on a t4+iodine suplement, TSH around 1 - not yet had bloods for free t3,t4.
but i noticed: more facial hear growth, more armhair,leaner face. but difficulties gaining muscles, maybe even a loss in the very androgen-prone area of the neck/shoulder region.

 

[stevrd]

hang on...so t3 actually lowers androgens? will supplementing t4 result in higher t3 in the system?
i am on a t4+iodine suplement, TSH around 1 - not yet had bloods for free t3,t4.
but i noticed: more facial hear growth, more armhair,leaner face. but difficulties gaining muscles, maybe even a loss in the very androgen-prone area of the neck/shoulder region.

I think what he meant was that it lowers prolactin and increases androgens. Specifically, T3 increases cholesterol conversion to androgens through cAMP in the mitochondria. For me, if I take too much thyroid I get symptoms of excess androgens like acne, of which I have to match with vitamin A for it to go away.

 

[Jackrabbit]

Here’s my attempt at a solution. Epitestosterone is the ultimate steroidogenesis regulator. According to a study I came across on selfhacked, 7 keto dhea in topical form rubbed on the belly for 8 days resulted in a huge increase in epitestosterone after a 30-90 days delay after the eight day dosing period
8 Benefits of 7-Keto DHEA + Side Effects, Dosage, Reviews - Selfhacked

Vasoseven sems to be the best brand on the market

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I've not found an english article about it, but a very relevant german newspaper just published an online article about someone suing Finasteride-Producer for the side effects he experienced whilie he thought it was a harmless hairloss-prevention drug at the eurpean supreme court and might stand a chance to actualy win:

Finasterid: Es ging doch nur um kahle Stellen

correction: the lawsuit is on a german regional court but a recent verdict from the European court strenghtens the position of the suitor.

 

[Pedro Melo]

I've not found an english article about it, but a very relevant german newspaper just published an online article about someone suing Finasteride-Producer for the side effects he experienced whilie he thought it was a harmless hairloss-prevention drug at the eurpean supreme court and might stand a chance to actualy win:

Finasterid: Es ging doch nur um kahle Stellen

correction: the lawsuit is on a german regional court but a recent verdict from the European court strenghtens the position of the suitor.

Well thaths a good new... It might be a beginning of a new era. I've already contacted the authorities here in Portugal. Let's hope we can stand a chance!