Low Toxin Lifestyle This "Low Toxin & Low Vitamin A" Movement Is All About The Great Awakening

[Bingo]

I want to learn more about this idea, and how it builds on Dr. Peat's work. I'm very interested.

I find that I do feel better with liver in my diet, which might seem to contradict the low vitamin A as a toxin theory. But there can be other reasons for this.

Peat changed his theories over the years according to the perceive think act model, or perhaps it could be called a personal application of the scientific method. I do not think he would stand on dogma. Vitamin A might be toxic for many people, certainly the supplements are.

Avoiding toxins is not controversial, and I would love to be off thyroid, for example, as it seems to be a life sentence. Peat was open to new ideas, always.

 

[charlie]

Why is this called the Ray Peat forum when this dismisses nearly every idea that Dr. Peat has introduced?

If Ray Peats body of work is so solid. Why are so many of you freaking out? One of you is even actively looking for ways to kill me( I do forgive that brother. He knows not what he does). Why are ya'll so worried and acting like authoritarians? Why can you not let the people work through this? From my perspective, you are literally trying to stop the healing of society. You think maybe some of you should just step aside if you do not agree and cannot handle this mentally and let us do the work?

 

[Peater]

One of you is even actively looking for ways to kill me

WTF.

 

[Peater]

I want to learn more about this idea, and how it builds on Dr. Peat's work. I'm very interested.

Agreed. There are a couple of areas where they do have common focus, even if the conclusion is different. It just gives us another thing to try, if nothing else.

 

[charlie]

WTF.

Incredible isn't it? satan knows he is losing ground so he is using the weak people to try and cause harm. I forgive this brother because I realize he is just a pawn in satans army. Nonetheless, there are contingency plans in place if anything happens to me and this place will not be going anywhere. satan or any of his minions cannot stop what is coming.

 

[Caro]

I would definitely not take what has been said for proper evidence that calcium intake should be as low as 200mg, it's just conjecture at best with low quality reasoning. Ray has plenty of evidence to the contrary, it's kind of ridiculous that people are using such surface level reasoning instead of Rays expertise on the topic. We can pick apart isolated vitamins and minerals all day long and find a guru to bow down to, ultimately it's context that matters and the devil still usually lies in the details.

It wasn't as though I had a choice. I was/am having a severe reaction to minimal calcium intake (even from food sources). So regardless of what the optimal amount might be in theory, as well as RP recommendations, I've had to cut down.

 

[miwatson007]

Really shows how resilient the human body can be in the face of endless assaults by the medical industry. What are your go to supplements if you don't mind me asking?

Here goes...

First thing in the morning I take 400mg of SAM-E. 30 to 60 minutes later 500mg of niacin, 500mg of NAC, 2,000mg of C, 500mg of L-glutamine. An hour later I take a combination of citrulean malate (2:1 ratio), creatine HCL, pine pollen and arginine in 12 ounces of purified water as a pre-workout. I have a post work-out smoothie that is supplemented with beet root powder, 40g of whey protein, 20g of collagen protein, creatine HCL and pine pollen.

30 to 60 minutes later I take COq10, PQQ, a large dose of E, glucosamine chondrotin.

A few hours prior to bed I take magnesium and zinc.

Throughout the day I will also take 2mg doses of nicotine. Usually three doses a day. If I have a lot of meetings in the day I will take an L-Terozine as well.

I will sometimes also take a borax dose or two if I am not feeling great (usually after air travel) and use chlorine dioxide to help stave off sickness if I feel something coming on.

In the past year I have also started doing a course of ivermectin every 4 months stacked with zeolite.

When I go out to eat I will take a large dose of E and some protease 4 from Ness afterwards.

If the workout load is high during a given week I will do powered aspirin on the weekends with some caffeine.

I know. It's insane. But, I have come to this regiment through years if experimentation and I feel optimal 80% of the time.

 

[Peater]

It wasn't as though I had a choice. I was/am having a severe reaction to minimal calcium intake (even from food sources). So regardless of what the optimal amount might be in theory, as well as RP recommendations, I've had to cut down.

Would you mind saying what the bad reactions were? Thanks.

 

[purple pill]

Here goes...

First thing in the morning I take 400mg of SAM-E. 30 to 60 minutes later 500mg of niacin, 500mg of NAC, 2,000mg of C, 500mg of L-glutamine. An hour later I take a combination of citrulean malate (2:1 ratio), creatine HCL, pine pollen and arginine in 12 ounces of purified water as a pre-workout. I have a post work-out smoothie that is supplemented with beet root powder, 40g of whey protein, 20g of collagen protein, creatine HCL and pine pollen.

30 to 60 minutes later I take COq10, PQQ, a large dose of E, glucosamine chondrotin.

A few hours prior to bed I take magnesium and zinc.

Throughout the day I will also take 2mg doses of nicotine. Usually three doses a day. If I have a lot of meetings in the day I will take an L-Terozine as well.

I will sometimes also take a borax dose or two if I am not feeling great (usually after air travel) and use chlorine dioxide to help stave off sickness if I feel something coming on.

In the past year I have also started doing a course of ivermectin every 4 months stacked with zeolite.

When I go out to eat I will take a large dose of E and some protease 4 from Ness afterwards.

If the workout load is high during a given week I will do powered aspirin on the weekends with some caffeine.

I know. It's insane. But, I have come to this regiment through years if experimentation and I feel optimal 80% of the time.

Impressive stack, I was never as organized with my supplement taking....i'd buy a ***t tonne of supps try it for a few weeks benefits would fade then it would be stowed away until some other study popped up then try again. The only supps I can regularly take is niacin and trimethylglycine at bed time, find it really relaxing. Just started an ionic zinc supplement and molybdenum, seem to be getting benefits but early days yet, hopefully they'll be keepers. If the toxic copper theory is right my body will be ridiculously overloaded with all the cocoa i've consumed over the years so really need to keep on top of my zinc along with upping lean beef.

 

[Caro]

Would you mind saying what the bad reactions were? Thanks.

The onset of symptoms was sudden, about a month ago. The tops of the feet and the left edge of the left foot were extremely sensitive. The sensation seemed close to the surface; I didn’t know if it was the skin itself or just directly under it. The problem was totally unfamiliar to me and I was scrambling to understand what was happening, wondering if it were diabetes, atherosclerosis, venous insufficiency, or another issue.

The only remedy I’d found that has enabled me to sleep at night without being awakened at 3am by sharp foot pains is Japanese knotweed (which I’d like to phase out as soon as possible as it stimulates NO production). However, I’ll continue to take it while I’m figuring out how to solve the problem.

Cheese made the pains worse, preventing sleep even with JK, so I stopped eating it altogether. I had been eating small quantities of cheese (eg an ounce, once or twice a day) because it was an easy way to get calcium. I tend to react badly to calcium supplements, so only micro-dose occasionally. I still have milk in my tea and coffee and eat small amounts of Greek yogurt occasionally. I’m able to reach 500mg or so a day with minimal dairy and other foods. (Previously my calcium intake wasn't particularly high, perhaps about 800mg/day.)

In the meantime, the Vitamin A controversy has exploded on the forum, which prompted me to at least review my VA intake. I’ve since discontinued a few supplements containing retinol palmitate, lutein and zeaxanthin. My VA level is currently in the 500 to 600 mcg range from my normal diet without the supplements—I’ll assess as I go, if/when to go lower.

Gradually, my foot sensitivity has improved; I can now wear shoes without pain. I suspect a decalcification process is taking place. Nick’s explanation of calcium binding with excess VA fits too perfectly.

(This is a short version, with many details omitted. I still have a lot of reading to do, quite a few studies, particularly looking in to how the Japanese manage to do so well on approx. 500mg of calcium/day.)

 

[Elie]

I'd love to reach a consensus on calcium intake.

"About 25 years ago, David McCarron noticed that the governments data on diet and hypertension showed that the people who ate the most salt had the lowest blood pressure, and those who ate the least salt had the highest pressure. He showed that a calcium deficiency, rather than a sodium excess, was the most likely nutritional explanation for hypertension." RP

in this study examining the association between calcium intake and mortality it seems that dietary calcium levels between 600 mg and 1400 mg has the lowest mortality risk. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3571949/

600 mg to 999 mg seem to be a bit better

I'd love to see other studies

 

[InChristAlone]

I'd love to reach a consensus on calcium intake.

"About 25 years ago, David McCarron noticed that the governments data on diet and hypertension showed that the people who ate the most salt had the lowest blood pressure, and those who ate the least salt had the highest pressure. He showed that a calcium deficiency, rather than a sodium excess, was the most likely nutritional explanation for hypertension." RP

in this study examining the association between calcium intake and mortality it seems that dietary calcium levels between 600 mg and 1400 mg has the lowest mortality risk. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3571949/

600 mg to 999 mg seem to be a bit better
View attachment 61355

I'd love to see other studies

I wonder about that quote. Something seems off. Blood pressure is a measure of electrolytes. Low blood pressure and the person either drinks too much water without enough salt, or has low stomach acid and doesn't absorb electrolytes well. Low blood pressure needs more salt. High blood pressure on the other hand means excess electrolytes, kidneys struggling to keep up. They need more water. I wouldn't say less salt but definitely more hydration.

 

[InChristAlone]

So this is what @gbolduev said at one point:
"all hormones go down with aging. ON hair tests of aged or sick people estrogen influence is lower than progesterone. Sodium is lower than potassium usually. Meaning that progesterone is higher than estrogen, and that is understandable, we don’t bind copper. Estrogen in blood causes copper to be bound. One of the reasons for copper not to bind is high CO2 levels. Copper lowers blood PH and if you have reps acidosis copper will be stored in the liver. also, Iron will be stored in the liver, since Iron raises metabolism and body does not want that with high CO2
That is exactly why people’s livers are full of copper and iron when they die.
calcium lowers thyroid that is why, zinc increases thyroid, copper lowers thyroid. Peat is totally wrong on this. Calcium lowers potassium in the cell zinc increases potassium. Fast oxidizers have high potassium in the cell and you called them not zinc deficient. Potassium is what makes the cell sensitive to the thyroid hormone. So, when you take calcium, potassium will go down in the cell, and thyroid will have to produce more and convert more t4 to t3. Peat says thyroid goes up, WRONG.
If your thyroid is high and potassium is higher than calcium in the cell then body will use ceruloplasmin to cap off the thyroid, since copper same as calcium lower potassium in the cell. that is why for fast oxidizers taking thyroid will move ceruloplasmin. Copper is there to lower thyroid. To cap it off. SO when thyroid goes up copper will be raised to try to cap it. But if you have adrenal problems thyroid will be turned off with turning off conversion of T4 to T3
For most people, it has nothing to do with thyroid, the actual gland is fine. It has to do with subclinical hypo which can be from either low potassium or potassium not entering the cell, or too much calcium in the cell, pushing potassium out.
By the way Cortisol also makes the cell sensitive to thyroid. So if stressed your temps go up not down. Cortisol raises potassium in the cell, zinc raises potassium in the cell for slow oxidizers. For fast it is the opposite zinc lowers potassium.
That is why if you are deficient in zinc your cortisol will be upped to raise potassium in the cell instead of zinc. and that is why when you take zinc, it lowers cortisol. Cortisol supports thyroid in this case, and to lower cortisol in this case is like turning off your thyroid
calcium increases sodium potassium ratio, since it lowers potassium. So, when people take vitamin D they can feel better than ratio of sodium to potassium in the cell rises. But it is wrong for slow oxidizer, since although the ratio gets better, metabolism gets slower. That is why you feel so tired if you spend a day on the beach and most people take a nap after (slow oxidizers of course) Fast oxidizers get more energetic since their sugar goes up in blood from the sun.
For thyroid to work you need adrenals that can handle it for once. Then you need actual thyroid hormone Т4 then you need conversion from Т4 to Т3. Then you need transport into the cell which is IRON. And then you need potassium and cortisol to receive it. If you have low glutathione for some reason, infection or toxic metals, then all your selenium will be used for detox to recycle existing glutathione. And the conversion of Т4 to Т3 will be down. This is just one example of low thyroid. Another example if you have acidosis. During resp acidosis potassium goes out of the cell and that lowers thyroid, calcium enters the cell, since it turns into ionized calcium from total calcium.
But notice that I say this or that lowers thyroid. The actual gland production in these cases could be increased, I am talking about the effect of thyroid hormone on the actual cell, I don’t care how much hormones thyroid gland produces, if calcium is really high in the cell, it won’t be able to enter the cell. That is why people can have high T4 high T3 and body will be asking for more by raising TSH even higher, since calcium does not allow these hormones to enter the cell, or they are missing potassium or they are out of iron zinc selenium."

 

[freeflow]

And years later it pans out that gbolduev was right all the time
I have experience with TEI program, and it was great for sure.

 

[RealNeat]

It wasn't as though I had a choice. I was/am having a severe reaction to minimal calcium intake (even from food sources). So regardless of what the optimal amount might be in theory, as well as RP recommendations, I've had to cut down.

I understand, but the bad advice being given to you is being made in general terms and not to fit your particular issue. It is not your situation that I am questioning.

Just to reiterate: Calcium and Disease: Hypertension, organ calcification, & shock, vs. respiratory energy

 

[Caro]

Yes. Peat often wrote that niacinamide lowers serum phosphate effectively. He mentioned it alongside other things like aspirin, I think.
So there are many studies, it's well known apparently. All forms of B3 do it.

https://www.ajkd.org/article/S0272-6386(10)00834-6/fulltext

...

Very useful information, plus the links in the footnotes to related studies. Yet another less-known benefit of niacin.

 

[miwatson007]

Yes. Peat often wrote that niacinamide lowers serum phosphate effectively. He mentioned it alongside other things like aspirin, I think.

So there are many studies, it's well known apparently. All forms of B3 do it.

https://www.ajkd.org/article/S0272-6386(10)00834-6/fulltext

The key piece of data that interests me about the Amish are childhood diseases that are common among the general population. Unlike the GP, Amish children suffer from almost no ADHD, autism, cancer, ear infections, allergies, asthma, RSV, etc., etc. It seems that their start in life is far healthier than that of the GP. Back in 1900 the life expectancy of the GP was only 47, but for early–20th century Amish it was already greater than 70. I believe that living a lifestyle more closely aligned with what nature intended (not working in a factory or a cubicle all day) is a large part of what has led to their longevity without pharmacological intervention. I am also starting to believe that their superior health in their younger years (perhaps explained by a lack of vaccinations) help them establish a strong foundation of health enabling healthy, active aging without the need for medications.

For those of us in the GP who have been subjected to these early life allopathic treatments, I wonder if we would be able to achieve something approaching optimal health without some kind of non-pharmacological supplementation. In my case I don't believe I would.

It's interesting that the Amish don't get cancer (they are not poisoned by vaccines, EMF, furniture, fast food, etc.), but they do get heart issues at a similar rate as the average US population.

 

[RealNeat]

So this is what @gbolduev said at one point:
"all hormones go down with aging. ON hair tests of aged or sick people estrogen influence is lower than progesterone. Sodium is lower than potassium usually. Meaning that progesterone is higher than estrogen, and that is understandable, we don’t bind copper. Estrogen in blood causes copper to be bound. One of the reasons for copper not to bind is high CO2 levels. Copper lowers blood PH and if you have reps acidosis copper will be stored in the liver. also, Iron will be stored in the liver, since Iron raises metabolism and body does not want that with high CO2
That is exactly why people’s livers are full of copper and iron when they die.
calcium lowers thyroid that is why, zinc increases thyroid, copper lowers thyroid. Peat is totally wrong on this. Calcium lowers potassium in the cell zinc increases potassium. Fast oxidizers have high potassium in the cell and you called them not zinc deficient. Potassium is what makes the cell sensitive to the thyroid hormone. So, when you take calcium, potassium will go down in the cell, and thyroid will have to produce more and convert more t4 to t3. Peat says thyroid goes up, WRONG.
If your thyroid is high and potassium is higher than calcium in the cell then body will use ceruloplasmin to cap off the thyroid, since copper same as calcium lower potassium in the cell. that is why for fast oxidizers taking thyroid will move ceruloplasmin. Copper is there to lower thyroid. To cap it off. SO when thyroid goes up copper will be raised to try to cap it. But if you have adrenal problems thyroid will be turned off with turning off conversion of T4 to T3
For most people, it has nothing to do with thyroid, the actual gland is fine. It has to do with subclinical hypo which can be from either low potassium or potassium not entering the cell, or too much calcium in the cell, pushing potassium out.
By the way Cortisol also makes the cell sensitive to thyroid. So if stressed your temps go up not down. Cortisol raises potassium in the cell, zinc raises potassium in the cell for slow oxidizers. For fast it is the opposite zinc lowers potassium.
That is why if you are deficient in zinc your cortisol will be upped to raise potassium in the cell instead of zinc. and that is why when you take zinc, it lowers cortisol. Cortisol supports thyroid in this case, and to lower cortisol in this case is like turning off your thyroid
calcium increases sodium potassium ratio, since it lowers potassium. So, when people take vitamin D they can feel better than ratio of sodium to potassium in the cell rises. But it is wrong for slow oxidizer, since although the ratio gets better, metabolism gets slower. That is why you feel so tired if you spend a day on the beach and most people take a nap after (slow oxidizers of course) Fast oxidizers get more energetic since their sugar goes up in blood from the sun.
For thyroid to work you need adrenals that can handle it for once. Then you need actual thyroid hormone Т4 then you need conversion from Т4 to Т3. Then you need transport into the cell which is IRON. And then you need potassium and cortisol to receive it. If you have low glutathione for some reason, infection or toxic metals, then all your selenium will be used for detox to recycle existing glutathione. And the conversion of Т4 to Т3 will be down. This is just one example of low thyroid. Another example if you have acidosis. During resp acidosis potassium goes out of the cell and that lowers thyroid, calcium enters the cell, since it turns into ionized calcium from total calcium.
But notice that I say this or that lowers thyroid. The actual gland production in these cases could be increased, I am talking about the effect of thyroid hormone on the actual cell, I don’t care how much hormones thyroid gland produces, if calcium is really high in the cell, it won’t be able to enter the cell. That is why people can have high T4 high T3 and body will be asking for more by raising TSH even higher, since calcium does not allow these hormones to enter the cell, or they are missing potassium or they are out of iron zinc selenium."

This is all supposing there is calcium influx in the cell. Which is not the normal state of a properly energized cell. I'm not sure what he is getting on about here, everyone knows that calcium shouldn't be in the cell hence why calcium "channel' blockers are therapeutic. This is not reason for taking in less calcium just as leaky gut isn't grounds for not eating food. We have to fix the leak not avoid necessary minerals and nutrients.

Peat described the ideal state of the cell, gbol caters to the disfunctional state of the cell. It's not necessarily "wrong" but his methods fall short of fixing the issue and returning to a stable baseline. The body wants to be an ordered energized biological machine, gbol keeps trying to play the manual balance game, you'll never be able to do that. You cant build positively on top of compromise and sceondary defense machnisms.

 

[InChristAlone]

This is all supposing there is calcium influx in the cell. Which is not the normal state of a properly energized cell. I'm not sure what he is getting on about here, everyone knows that calcium shouldn't be in the cell hence why calcium "channel' blockers are therapeutic. This is not reason for taking in less calcium just as leaky gut isn't grounds for not eating food. We have to fix the leak not avoid necessary minerals and nutrients.

Peat described the ideal state of the cell, gbol caters to the disfunctional state of the cell. It's not necessarily "wrong" but his methods fall short of fixing the issue and returning to a stable baseline. The body wants to be an ordered energized biological machine, gbol keeps trying to play the manual balance game, you'll never be able to do that. You cant build positively on top of compromise and sceondary defense machnisms.

I don't really agree with how he goes about getting back to health I was reading through the hackstasis thread yesterday. His ideas seems logical when looking at mineral balance, but again it's always in the practical application that most people will fail. So how do you prevent calcium from getting in the cell?

 

[Risingfire]

If Ray Peats body of work is so solid. Why are so many of you freaking out? One of you is even actively looking for ways to kill me( I do forgive that brother. He knows not what he does). Why are ya'll so worried and acting like authoritarians? Why can you not let the people work through this? From my perspective, you are literally trying to stop the healing of society. You think maybe some of you should just step aside if you do not agree and cannot handle this mentally and let us do the work?

Who said I'm freaking out? I thought we were allowed to disagree on this forum?

be safe