Low Toxin Lifestyle Detox Ideology is the WORST Toxin, AVOID!

[Tarmander]

It seems this forum has shifted to embracing the low vitamin A path. This makes me very happy. I was amongst the first to adopt this lifestyle and it was one of the best things I've done. I interviewed both Garrett Smith and the OG Grant Genereux a couple times on my podcast. I am personally convinced this path is correct.

But a sickness has crept in that I must address.

I agree and practice many of Dr. Garrett Smith’s practical advice. EMF, sunlight, avoiding VA, moving bowels, etc. But I highly disagree with his ideology around detox. I think it’s bad for you, and serves his own needs.

I have been in the health industry now for almost 15 years, both personally and professionally. You must know, doctors need a hook to get you to keep coming back. In the natural world, it is detox. You feel bad now, but later you will feel better. It may take years, but if you have the dedication, you will be healthy and happy one day. In Christian terms, if you follow the Law, you will gain righteousness and salvation.

I would be an awful natural doctor in business terms. I would want people to feel better and full of life right now. I wouldn’t have any residual income, only gratefulness. Focusing on detox/the Law warps your mindset. You lose touch with the burning life of this moment, and live for the future good.

For example, when someone buys you a cake for your birthday (if you even have friends left), you refuse to eat a bite, why?

If you were truly alive, you would not eat because it made you feel bad: “sorry, that would give me terrible heart burn to eat that, I can’t.” People would understand, a new cake would be brought, no life force would be disrupted.

But when you live under detox/the Law, you refuse because it threatens your future good. You COULD eat a bite of cake without harm, but you don’t want to because you are under this toxic ideology of suffering.

Life is fire and movement. There is so much going on out there. Have you taken any risks lately? Have you rolled the dice in some new scenario? Things are constantly passing away and being reborn in fire and glory.

Listening to Dr. Smith is listening to a very sick man. He goes on and on about all the threats out there. He rants and raves about “them” and their plans to make you sick. This battle is constant and never ending, just like his detox journey which you can pay him to be on.

Back before he blew up his marriage and family, we made plans to hang out. He lives in AZ like me and we were going to shoot guns or something. But it never happened as his life spiraled lower. He lives on war, and war alone.

But Tarman, surely you do not deny the evil forces out there? Of course not! And being aware of them is crucial to living well. But they are weak and feeble in the long run. No one will talk about the Rothschilds in a couple hundred years. They pass away. Only goodness, love, and truth survive. Healthy people do not focus on these forces. They live with hope.

But Tarman, I feel better on low VA and his advice, are you saying we should ignore this? Never! I do many of these things because they make me feel good RIGHT NOW. Because they make me energetic, outgoing, talkative, and engaging. But I have no thoughts to some future good I am getting to because of these things. There is no scorecard. There are no mistakes.

Maybe it is the raw meat I eat, or the rapamycin. But the passion I feel finally woke me up to this amazing life.

Look at the healthiest among us, the young people. Do they worry about the future? No. Your worries about the future are your inflammation talking. The young live for the intensity of this moment and connection.

Do the young seek out pain and misery in some bid for future glory? No! They seek only goodness, pleasure, love, and life. Only the very sick of mind and body get lost in this detox like delusion.

But you are not young anymore! You have wisdom now. How much richer can your life be, knowing the pitfalls the young do not?

Forget this detox ideology. Loosen up and just listen. You will find life and connection.

 

[Peater]

How did you feel when you first started applying the principles? Did you put any 'side effects' down to adjustment rather than detox?

 

[Hidden49]

It seems this forum has shifted to embracing the low vitamin A path. This makes me very happy. I was amongst the first to adopt this lifestyle and it was one of the best things I've done. I interviewed both Garrett Smith and the OG Grant Genereux a couple times on my podcast. I am personally convinced this path is correct.

But a sickness has crept in that I must address.

I agree and practice many of Dr. Garrett Smith’s practical advice. EMF, sunlight, avoiding VA, moving bowels, etc. But I highly disagree with his ideology around detox. I think it’s bad for you, and serves his own needs.

I have been in the health industry now for almost 15 years, both personally and professionally. You must know, doctors need a hook to get you to keep coming back. In the natural world, it is detox. You feel bad now, but later you will feel better. It may take years, but if you have the dedication, you will be healthy and happy one day. In Christian terms, if you follow the Law, you will gain righteousness and salvation.

I would be an awful natural doctor in business terms. I would want people to feel better and full of life right now. I wouldn’t have any residual income, only gratefulness. Focusing on detox/the Law warps your mindset. You lose touch with the burning life of this moment, and live for the future good.

For example, when someone buys you a cake for your birthday (if you even have friends left), you refuse to eat a bite, why?

If you were truly alive, you would not eat because it made you feel bad: “sorry, that would give me terrible heart burn to eat that, I can’t.” People would understand, a new cake would be brought, no life force would be disrupted.

But when you live under detox/the Law, you refuse because it threatens your future good. You COULD eat a bite of cake without harm, but you don’t want to because you are under this toxic ideology of suffering.

Life is fire and movement. There is so much going on out there. Have you taken any risks lately? Have you rolled the dice in some new scenario? Things are constantly passing away and being reborn in fire and glory.

Listening to Dr. Smith is listening to a very sick man. He goes on and on about all the threats out there. He rants and raves about “them” and their plans to make you sick. This battle is constant and never ending, just like his detox journey which you can pay him to be on.

Back before he blew up his marriage and family, we made plans to hang out. He lives in AZ like me and we were going to shoot guns or something. But it never happened as his life spiraled lower. He lives on war, and war alone.

But Tarman, surely you do not deny the evil forces out there? Of course not! And being aware of them is crucial to living well. But they are weak and feeble in the long run. No one will talk about the Rothschilds in a couple hundred years. They pass away. Only goodness, love, and truth survive. Healthy people do not focus on these forces. They live with hope.

But Tarman, I feel better on low VA and his advice, are you saying we should ignore this? Never! I do many of these things because they make me feel good RIGHT NOW. Because they make me energetic, outgoing, talkative, and engaging. But I have no thoughts to some future good I am getting to because of these things. There is no scorecard. There are no mistakes.

Maybe it is the raw meat I eat, or the rapamycin. But the passion I feel finally woke me up to this amazing life.

Look at the healthiest among us, the young people. Do they worry about the future? No. Your worries about the future are your inflammation talking. The young live for the intensity of this moment and connection.

Do the young seek out pain and misery in some bid for future glory? No! They seek only goodness, pleasure, love, and life. Only the very sick of mind and body get lost in this detox like delusion.

But you are not young anymore! You have wisdom now. How much richer can your life be, knowing the pitfalls the young do not?

Forget this detox ideology. Loosen up and just listen. You will find life and connection.

What is your podcast called?

 

[Dolomite]

I started eating a low vit A diet in 2019 and I never felt any detox.

 

[DanDare]

One thing I find tiresome and well worth avoiding is making overly simplified models and then mistaking them for reality. Whether it be pro or anti vit a, or pro or anti Smith in this case. I am sure he isn't permanently at war. I am sure it is good to think of both short and long term gratification, not merely an extreme of one or the other.

 

[Blossom]

@Tarmander, 100% agree. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Tarmander]

How did you feel when you first started applying the principles? Did you put any 'side effects' down to adjustment rather than detox?

I give new stuff 2-4 weeks to work. There may be downsides (like Rapamycin making me tired at first), but net net they should be improving my life in that time frame.

What is your podcast called?

Quax Podcast

 

[Peater]

I give new stuff 2-4 weeks to work. There may be downsides (like Rapamycin making me tired at first), but net net they should be improving my life in that time frame.

Yeah, that's fair.

 

[Blossom]

@Tarmander, rapamycin gives me a similar anti inflammatory response feeling as eating low A so I have suspected there was a connection with mTOR and vA. I found a couple interesting papers and from my limited understanding it seems that vA and mTOR work hand in hand. If you have any thoughts on the topic I’d be interested in hearing them sir.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0015028214020639

Retinoid Homeostasis and Beyond: How Retinol Binding Protein 4 Contributes to Health and Disease

Retinol binding protein 4 (RBP4) is the specific transport protein of the lipophilic vitamin A, retinol, in blood. Circulating RBP4 originates from the liver. It is secreted by hepatocytes after it has been loaded with retinol and binding to transthyretin (TTR). TTR association prevents renal...

www.mdpi.com

 

[TheCalciumCad]

I agree and practice many of Dr. Garrett Smith’s practical advice. EMF, sunlight, avoiding VA, moving bowels, etc. But I highly disagree with his ideology around detox. I think it’s bad for you, and serves his own needs.

You must know, doctors need a hook to get you to keep coming back. In the natural world, it is detox. You feel bad now, but later you will feel better. It may take years, but if you have the dedication, you will be healthy and happy one day. In Christian terms, if you follow the Law, you will gain righteousness and salvation.

Listening to Dr. Smith is listening to a very sick man. He goes on and on about all the threats out there. He rants and raves about “them” and their plans to make you sick. This battle is constant and never ending, just like his detox journey which you can pay him to be on.

Back before he blew up his marriage and family, we made plans to hang out. He lives in AZ like me and we were going to shoot guns or something. But it never happened as his life spiraled lower. He lives on war, and war alone.

Agree with all this, I briefly flirted with the anti VA stuff a few years ago it was my Ray Peat 'rebound'. I am convinced this is partially because Ray being 'anti authoritarian' if people stay in this state long enough without results they will long for the opposite and Garrett fills that void. I only needed a few months of reduced VA intake, which is all it should take if you've genuinely overdone it. After a few months of watching Garrett Smith I clocked id escaped one trap and fallen into another, and after that I was done with all these guru types and ideology's "just restrict PUFA to 3-4g per day THEN you will be healthy and your thyroid will function!!!!" >>> "Just avoid Vitamin A for years THEN you will be healthy and have good liver function!!!" which is even more unsustainable. I actually found Garretts energy quite repulsive initially but persisted as I was getting good results post-peating, but you can see how much anger the guy is holding onto which pulls his energy down and ironically hurts liver function.

You have to learn to trust yourself more and eat the foods you are in alignment with above all, alot of this is rooted in childhood trauma and not knowing how to meet your own needs which is what learned helplessness actually is.

 

[Peater]

@Tarmander are you doing the niacin as well? What about zinc, moly, etc? Thanks.

 

[Blossom]

I also think it’s important to remember how remarkably resilient we are and how phenomenal the liver is at regeneration.
Smith started reminding me of Big Pharma and their goal of keeping customers for life. It’s a shame because he has had some really great ideas and insights but I think he’s possibly taken a wrong turn due to perhaps greed or pride. Forgive me for sounding judgmental but it really matters how we treat others and on that front things aren’t looking good.

 

[DanDare]

Agree with all this, I briefly flirted with the anti VA stuff a few years ago it was my Ray Peat 'rebound'. I am convinced this is partially because Ray being 'anti authoritarian' if people stay in this state long enough without results they will long for the opposite and Garrett fills that void.

I for one do not crave an authoritarian, and do not crave an opposite approach, and think Garrett's experiments are more compelling and influential in my decision to try low A. And Charlie needs credit for emphasising the results people have been getting and blowing the whistle on liver, milk, cheese and orange juice.

 

[Santosh]

It seems this forum has shifted to embracing the low vitamin A path. This makes me very happy. I was amongst the first to adopt this lifestyle and it was one of the best things I've done. I interviewed both Garrett Smith and the OG Grant Genereux a couple times on my podcast. I am personally convinced this path is correct.

But a sickness has crept in that I must address.

I agree and practice many of Dr. Garrett Smith’s practical advice. EMF, sunlight, avoiding VA, moving bowels, etc. But I highly disagree with his ideology around detox. I think it’s bad for you, and serves his own needs.

I have been in the health industry now for almost 15 years, both personally and professionally. You must know, doctors need a hook to get you to keep coming back. In the natural world, it is detox. You feel bad now, but later you will feel better. It may take years, but if you have the dedication, you will be healthy and happy one day. In Christian terms, if you follow the Law, you will gain righteousness and salvation.

I would be an awful natural doctor in business terms. I would want people to feel better and full of life right now. I wouldn’t have any residual income, only gratefulness. Focusing on detox/the Law warps your mindset. You lose touch with the burning life of this moment, and live for the future good.

For example, when someone buys you a cake for your birthday (if you even have friends left), you refuse to eat a bite, why?

If you were truly alive, you would not eat because it made you feel bad: “sorry, that would give me terrible heart burn to eat that, I can’t.” People would understand, a new cake would be brought, no life force would be disrupted.

But when you live under detox/the Law, you refuse because it threatens your future good. You COULD eat a bite of cake without harm, but you don’t want to because you are under this toxic ideology of suffering.

Life is fire and movement. There is so much going on out there. Have you taken any risks lately? Have you rolled the dice in some new scenario? Things are constantly passing away and being reborn in fire and glory.

Listening to Dr. Smith is listening to a very sick man. He goes on and on about all the threats out there. He rants and raves about “them” and their plans to make you sick. This battle is constant and never ending, just like his detox journey which you can pay him to be on.

Back before he blew up his marriage and family, we made plans to hang out. He lives in AZ like me and we were going to shoot guns or something. But it never happened as his life spiraled lower. He lives on war, and war alone.

But Tarman, surely you do not deny the evil forces out there? Of course not! And being aware of them is crucial to living well. But they are weak and feeble in the long run. No one will talk about the Rothschilds in a couple hundred years. They pass away. Only goodness, love, and truth survive. Healthy people do not focus on these forces. They live with hope.

But Tarman, I feel better on low VA and his advice, are you saying we should ignore this? Never! I do many of these things because they make me feel good RIGHT NOW. Because they make me energetic, outgoing, talkative, and engaging. But I have no thoughts to some future good I am getting to because of these things. There is no scorecard. There are no mistakes.

Maybe it is the raw meat I eat, or the rapamycin. But the passion I feel finally woke me up to this amazing life.

Look at the healthiest among us, the young people. Do they worry about the future? No. Your worries about the future are your inflammation talking. The young live for the intensity of this moment and connection.

Do the young seek out pain and misery in some bid for future glory? No! They seek only goodness, pleasure, love, and life. Only the very sick of mind and body get lost in this detox like delusion.

But you are not young anymore! You have wisdom now. How much richer can your life be, knowing the pitfalls the young do not?

Forget this detox ideology. Loosen up and just listen. You will find life and connection.

Your logic is flawed.
The young feel good and vibrant because they haven't worn out their health capital yet, not because they don't worry about tomorrow.
You start worrying about tomorrow because one day you wake up and realize you don't have as much energy as yesterday, and maybe it's time you save some of that energy until you find a way to produce more.

I used to always worry about the future and the future of my health when I was 17. That didn't prevent me from exercising 6 days a week, have sex 5 times a night, party 3 days in a row and still have the mental capacity to study in the top 1% college and to worry about the future.

 

[Tarmander]

@Tarmander, 100% agree. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Glad you are still around Blossom, good to hear from you

@Tarmander, rapamycin gives me a similar anti inflammatory response feeling as eating low A so I have suspected there was a connection with mTOR and vA. I found a couple interesting papers and from my limited understanding it seems that vA and mTOR work hand in hand. If you have any thoughts on the topic I’d be interested in hearing them sir.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0015028214020639

Retinoid Homeostasis and Beyond: How Retinol Binding Protein 4 Contributes to Health and Disease

Retinol binding protein 4 (RBP4) is the specific transport protein of the lipophilic vitamin A, retinol, in blood. Circulating RBP4 originates from the liver. It is secreted by hepatocytes after it has been loaded with retinol and binding to transthyretin (TTR). TTR association prevents renal...

www.mdpi.com

View attachment 62142

This is really interesting. Don't have a ton of thoughts on it. Seems like a lot of Peat's stuff pushes mTor harder, which would connect the dots to why I (and others) do well with rapa and VA restriction.

I also think it’s important to remember how remarkably resilient we are and how phenomenal the liver is at regeneration.
Smith started reminding me of Big Pharma and their goal of keeping customers for life. It’s a shame because he has had some really great ideas and insights but I think he’s possibly taken a wrong turn due to perhaps greed or pride. Forgive me for sounding judgmental but it really matters how we treat others and on that front things aren’t looking good.

I have no qualms with Smith's ideas and methods. Like I said, I use many of them, they are effective. It is the ideology of suffering that I speak against.

@Tarmander are you doing the niacin as well? What about zinc, moly, etc? Thanks.

No I don't really use isolated vitamins or minerals. Tough to balance for me. I have used a high dose Niacin once in a while because it's a good trip

 

[Peater]

No I don't really use isolated vitamins or minerals. Tough to balance for me. I have used a high dose Niacin once in a while because it's a good trip

I see, thanks. I forgot to ask, what are your thoughts on copper? Thanks.

 

[Blossom]

Glad you are still around Blossom, good to hear from you

You too sir!

This is really interesting. Don't have a ton of thoughts on it. Seems like a lot of Peat's stuff pushes mTor harder, which would connect the dots to why I (and others) do well with rapa and VA restriction.

Thank you for sharing your perspective. You are the only person I know who is also doing low A and taking rapa.

I have no qualms with Smith's ideas and methods. Like I said, I use many of them, they are effective. It is the ideology of suffering that I speak against.

Sorry if I gave the impression that I thought you had qualms with him.

 

[Tarmander]

You too sir!

Thank you for sharing your perspective. You are the only person I know who is also doing low A and taking rapa.

Sorry if I gave the impression that I thought you had qualms with him.

You didn't at all. Just wanted to clarify that for others

 

[Sebastian B]

He said in a recent livestream that his diet would make one very fertile and advised using condoms to avoid pregnancy. I called him out for it and told him that using condoms is a sin, to which he called me a pejorative and said not to turn it into a religious debate, even though he was the one who turned it into a religious debate the moment he recommended a moral action, namely using condoms.

I don't consider him a Christian, even though he may call himself one, and it's a great scandal for him to tell his viewers to partake in sinful conduct, such as using condoms and engaging in fornication. However, his diet recommendations have already led to impressive results in my health. For example, the magnesium spray that he recommends has already relieved hypertension that I've been dealing with for over a year on the Ray Peat diet. His theories also explain many of the issues I had after heavy vitamin D supplementation and following the keto diet years back.

I truly hope for his conversion to Christ, and perhaps if you are struggling with your faith, it might be advisable to learn about his diet from other sources so as not to weaken your soul by hearing and being recommended to sin and use condoms. But I don't think there's any doubt that his diet recommendations work. He tested it on himself, and as a 48-year-old man, he has the testosterone levels that men half his age would like to have.

In addition, it's crucial to distinguish between physical well-being and faith in Christ. While good health is valuable, it doesn't necessarily correlate with one's spiritual standing. A person may endure poor health yet maintain unwavering faith, just as someone with robust health might lead a morally bankrupt life destined for condemnation. Personally, I would find immense joy in facing mortality tomorrow if I were assured of my soul's justification and eternal salvation. So, if you think your soul is saved because you're following his diet advice or that's the solution to the massive moral problems in America like the prevalence of crime, abortion, pornography, homosexuality, etc., then you are gravely mistaken. There is no substitute for living a moral life, and no diet will necessarily make you wiser in the eyes of God.

For emphasis, though I will say once again that I do think his medical advice is correct.

 

[Richiebogie]

The detox theory has merit in that you no longer fear diarrhoea, a cough, a runny nose etc.

Rather than being caused by some bat virus or some person at the shops not wearing a mask, detox means that most symptoms come from within, and are a positive development in that they lead to better health.

@Tarmander are you saying that detox is not real, and that every symptom is a sign of a problem, or are you saying that detox is not something to be chased, or that ideally detox happens slowly without our knowledge?