Restoring Levels Of Magnesium

[Dean]

My own experience also shows magnesium oil (chloride) to be much more effective than Epsom salt. In fact, taking Epsom salt baths at night when I first tried Peating a few years ago made my restless leg issues worse for some reason. Whereas, rubbing some magnesium oil into even my stomach quells restless leg issues for me almost immediately.

 

[johns74]

I feel great after using Epsom salts but it lasts a short time.

 

[Peata]

The only magnesium I can say I truly felt anything either way is Natural Calm, but I don't know if it's one of the better kinds. Now and then I would take some before bed and sleep well, wake up feeling rested. Since the new year, I've been taking magnesium glycinate but when it runs out, I won't get more.

 

[Strongbad]

Cocoa triggers herpes? Wow that's new I wonder if Ray Peat has methods to deal with various STDs naturally

 

[Amazoniac]

Q. Anxiety/panic, taking frequent magnesium baths/chloride topically doesn't seem to help. Low vit D known.

For the present, I think having sodium chloride or baking soda in your bath might be more helpful than the magnesium, though they could be combined. I suspect that increased aldosterone could account for the anxiety/panic, and extra magnesium, potassium, or phosphate could make it worse; sodium, calcium, and vitamin D would tend to lower it.

Psychother Psychosom. 2006;75(5):327-30.
Psychological aspects of primary aldosteronism.
Sonino N(1), Fallo F, Fava GA.
(1)Department of Statistical Sciences, University of Padova, Padova, Italy.
[email protected]
BACKGROUND: Except for 3 case reports of Conn's syndrome presenting as
depression, psychosocial factors have not been explored in primary aldosteronism.
We investigated psychological correlates in primary aldosteronism using methods
that were found to be sensitive and reliable in psychosomatic research.
METHOD: Ten consecutive newly diagnosed patients with primary aldosteronism were
studied: 5 males/5 females; mean age (+/-SD) 45.5 +/- 6.6 years, age range 34-54
years; 4 with an aldosterone-producing adenoma and 6 with idiopathic
aldosteronism; systolic/diastolic blood pressure 189 +/- 20/111 +/- 7.7 mm Hg;
upright plasma aldosterone 40.0 +/- 18.3 ng/dl; upright plasma renin activity
(PRA) 0.2 +/- 0.1 ng/ml/h; aldosterone/PRA ratio 229.2 +/- 191.0; serum K(+) 3.5
+/- 0.5 mmol/l. The Structured Clinical Interview for the Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) for eliciting psychiatric
diagnoses, and a shortened version of the structured interview for subclinical
psychological syndromes, the Diagnostic Criteria for Psychosomatic Research
(DCPR), were administered.
RESULTS: Seven patients (2 with aldosterone-producing adenoma and 5 with
idiopathic hyperaldosteronism) received both DSM-IV and DCPR diagnoses, while 3
had neither. As to DSM-IV, generalized anxiety disorder was detected in 6 cases
(in 1 it was associated with panic disorder and in 1 with major depression) and
obsessive-compulsive disorder in 1. The most frequent DCPR cluster was
demoralization (5 cases), while persistent somatization occurred in 2 cases
(associated with demoralization in 1) and irritable mood in 1.
CONCLUSIONS: The occurrence of anxiety disorders in patients with primary
aldosteronism was much higher than that found in the general population and in
primary care. Since an association between hyperaldosteronism and anxiety has
also been suggested in previous animal studies, it seems worthwhile to gain
further knowledge on clinical aspects by larger population studies.

--
ARL : Sodium and the Adrenals

The sodium/magnesium ratio. Sodium and magnesium tend to be antagonistic. As one goes up the other goes down.))) The ratio of the two minerals often gives a better picture of adrenal activity than the sodium level alone. Called 'the adrenal ratio', we use an ideal ratio of 4.17:1 for sodium/magnesium. As the ratio elevates, it reflects an excessive adrenal effect, while a low ratio indicates underactivity. This may not correlate perfectly with blood or saliva tests for adrenal hormones. This is because the latter measure hormones or their metabolites in the blood or other fluids. The hair test measures tissue effect.

--
William F. Koch Research Site

The choice of a cathartic is a serious matter as is its use. When necessity demands it there is no sense in putting it off. But after the evacuation is obtained, the cause must be corrected. Milk of Magnesia is an easily available and good remedy, as is sodium citrate or sodium sulphate. In cases of heart disease, the magnesium ion may be a disadvantage and sodium citrate or the sulfate should be used.

--
Salt, energy, metabolic rate, and longevity

Hypertonic solutions, containing more than the normal concentration of sodium (from about twice normal to 8 or 10 times normal) are being used to rescuscitate people and animals after injury. Rather than just increasing blood volume to restore circulation, the hypertonic sodium restores cellular energy production, increasing oxygen consumption and heat production while reducing free radical production, improves the contraction and relaxation of the heart muscle, and reduces inflammation, vascular permeability, and edema.

The guy is quite knowledgeable.

But anyway, apparently Mark Sircus got it right through experimentation as he suggests magnesium chloride combined with sodium bicarbonate.
I have the impression that sodium bicarbonate is useful for those that don't do well with salt. However, increasing salt intake along with good sources of taurine or glycine should help to protect everything from excess excitation. Salty raw cheeses, shellfish or salty broths seem like the best combination to replenish sodium without baking soda, especially because taking a punch of plain sodium on empty stomach can be stressful. A meal with balanced minerals is probably better.

An example of their close interaction (here with chloride):

"Working hypothesis. Glycine activates a ligand-gated chloride channel in the plasma membrane of Kupffer cells which causes an influx of chloride ions leading to the hyperpolarization of the membrane. Upon an external stimulus such as endotoxin, voltage-dependent influx of extracellular free calcium occurs through voltage-operated channels. This increase in intracellular calcium is blunted due to the hyperpolarized state of the plasma membrane by chloride. Intracellular signaling and cytokine production which is dependent upon the increase in intracellular calcium are blunted, preventing the cascade of inflammatory cytokines following activation of Kupffer cells and other white blood cells which contain the glycine receptor."

"[..]These results support the hypothesis that taurine, like glycine, activates a chloride channel in Kupffer cells. In addition, LPS-induced TNF-Such production was reduced by more than 40% by taurine, an effect which was also reversed by strychnine. Thus, taurine blocks the increase in [Ca2+]i due to LPS and significantly reduces TNF-Koveras production by mechanisms involving chloride influx into the Kupffer cell."

"The question then arises as to how glycine has such beneficial effects. The answer is that it most likely has an inhibitory effect on cell signaling mechanisms in cells that contain a glycine-gated chloride channel. As mentioned above, receptor- and voltage-gated calcium channels are central in elevation of calcium for intracellular signaling in many immune cell types suchas the Kupffer cell. Furthermore, it is known that increases in [Ca2+]i trigger opening of a chloride channel in the plasma membrane leading to hyperpolarization, making voltage-dependent calcium channels more difficult to open. We hypothesize that glycine opens a chloride channel in the plasma membrane of Kupffer cells and other white blood cells, rendering calcium influx triggered by a variety of agonists, drugs, and growth-factors more difficult or impossible."

--
Chloride dependent amino acid transport in the human small intestine.

 

[Frankdee20]

And what's the difference between Magnesium Chloride and Epsom Salts (MgSO4), since both are ionic bonds and release free Mg ions in solution? Is the anion really that important? Me being a cheap, busy person in the Norteast where hot water's expensive, I use Mg oil topically before I go to bed, rather than sit around in a tub.

I believe Epsom salts are the sulfide form

 

[Frankdee20]

As far as the original question, on how long it takes to correct a deficiency of Magnesium. It's interesting, I began slowly, surely, and through much trial and error, supplementing MG back in November. I've used various forms, isolated, and in combination with each other, and different brands of the same forms. I have my preferences, and what works for me may not agree with, or even be for you. The timing to correct a deficiency, even for how I've been using it, is still ongoing. Mind you, sometimes I've taken only the RDA, sometimes double, sometimes triple, but rarely. Usually, in conjunction with multi minerals and B vitamins, to enhance absorbtion, or to not create imbalances, etc. There's been times I couldn't tolerate a bit due to headaches, lethargy, weakness, and diarrhea (Oxide, citrate). Then there's been times I could tolerate a whole lot with no issues. For me, and I guess this is my point, my barometer for knowing is my muscle status. Meaning before I supplemented, my shoulder dyskinesia was so discernable. Knots in my serratus, and scapula was winging, and just complete asymmetry of my nuero muscular function. Nothing has made such a profound impact on correcting this than magnesium. So it leads me to believe, the issues were nothing more than long standing magnesium deficiency. I'm not saying magnesium is a band aid, I'm saying with every day, every dose of the Mineral gets to the effected muscles and corrects them. My shoulder blades are actually laying flush with the back. My kinks and spasms in the upper trapezius subside and obtain relief with every dose, etc. So my point is, it can take a while to correct a need, and the elapsation is dependent upon the degree of deficiency, etc. Hope that helped.

 

[burtlancast]

Magnesium & Candida & Herpes?

Here is a weird side-note.
I can't vouch for the veracity of this source,
but...just as suggestive thoughts in a new (for me) direction,
I thought I'd put it here with our magnesium posts.


Magnesium Feeds candida. at Candida & Dysbiosis Forum, topic 1884809



NOTE: Although magnesium over-dose is well known to produce diarrhea, very little was found concerning biologics-induced side effects of high-dose, oral magnesium treatment. However, our uncontrolled observations and the reports from others have convinced us that more consideration of its pro-herpes, pro-Candida albicans and pro-rhinovirus potential is needed.

For example - anecdotally:

1. Treatment of active genital herpes infections with +100 mM magnesium chloride greatly worsened infections.
2. Oral herpes was very greatly worsened upon use of +100 mM magnesium chloride facial treatment.
3. Daily use of magnesium chloride throat lozenges resulted in severe, chronic rhinosinusitis, apparently from a Candida albicans infection.
4. Diarrhea and intestinal distress from high-dose magnesium may be caused by overgrowth of intestinal Candidiasis as well as the well-known attraction of a large number of water molecules by magnesium.
5. A single magnesium throat lozenge worsened a common cold which lasted over two months and was only modestly treatable with zinc lozenges.

Lol at that old Narouz post taking curezone messages as gospel.
Magnesium is actually a treatment for both herpes and candida, a simple quick google search will confirm it.

 

[Amazoniac]

Lol at that old Narouz post taking curezone messages as gospel.
Magnesium is actually a treatment for both herpes and candida, a simple quick google search will confirm it.

Hi burtlan, hope that you're well.
Maybe it's possible because:
- Temporary Strict Iron Avoidance And Its Potential Advantages
- An Interview With Dr. Raymond Peat: A Renowned Nutritional Counselor Offers His Thoughts About Thyroid Disease / Thyroid Disease Information Source - Articles/FAQs

"The absorption and retention of magnesium, sodium, and copper, and the synthesis of proteins, are usually poor in hypothyroidism."​

- And since everything is interdependent, it should affect all other minerals as well, perhaps shifting the balance towards one that allows those infections to flare.

font=garamond"I really miss narouz, such a cool guy"/font

 

[burtlancast]

Hi burtlan, hope that you're well.
Maybe it's possible because:
- Temporary Strict Iron Avoidance And Its Potential Advantages
- An Interview With Dr. Raymond Peat: A Renowned Nutritional Counselor Offers His Thoughts About Thyroid Disease / Thyroid Disease Information Source - Articles/FAQs

"The absorption and retention of magnesium, sodium, and copper, and the synthesis of proteins, are usually poor in hypothyroidism."​

- And since everything is interdependent, it should affect all other minerals as well, perhaps shifting the balance towards one that allows those infections to flare.

font=garamond"I really miss narouz, such a cool guy"/font

This is what happens when one takes Narouz' content at face value.

Fact is Ray Peat agrees with Pierre Delbet's research, showing magnesium chloride increases white blood cells activity by 200-300% against microorganisms:

P. Delbet used physiological magnesium chloride (12.1 grams per liter) to stimulate phagocytosis in white blood cells. The activity was more than doubled by injection of 150 cc. of this solution into a dog, or by application to cells in vitro.

And Narouz' shaky proposition comes not from Ray but from a man named George Eby:

Eby came out of nowhere during the eighties and managed to publish under his name thereafter 29 scientific articles, most of them about a cure for the common cold using a lozenge product patented and sold by himself, zinc ( for colds) and magnesium (for asthma attacks) lozenges.

His 2004 paper begins by the statement " No treatment has been proven to effectively reduce the duration of common colds".

His 2006 article basically claims magnesium enhances the replication of rhinovirus, herpes and candida:

"30 mM ionic magnesium increased rhinoviral count by up to 310 times in vitro [15].Consequently, magnesium lozenges must never be used during common colds in order
to prevent severe worsening of common cold symptoms. For example, a 30-year-old woman used a single 100 mg magnesium (magnesium chloride in a 4-g candy lozenge) lozenge on the first day of a cold followed by zinc acetate lozenges (14 mg zinc—6 mM) each two wakeful hours. The cold lasted 14 days, which is much longer than usually results from using these properly made zinc acetate lozenges [14].
Since magnesium double herpes virus titer in vitro, oral herpes infections may be worsened by ionic magnesium [16].
Added magnesium was required for exponential growth of Candida albicans yeast cells, and a case of chronic rhinosinusitis occurred upon use of a few magnesium throat lozenges [17]. Clearly, it is vital to avoid using magnesium throat lozenges during common colds, herpes and Candida albicans infections such as chronic rhinosinusitis, for which humming induced nitric oxide appeared therapeutic [18], and it is imperative to stop magnesium lozenge treatment if respiratory or oral symptoms worsen.
No information was found concerning the effect of magnesium on influenza or other viral, bacteriologic or fungal respiratory diseases, but it is suggested that magnesium lozenges not be used during any respiratory or oral infection."

Now, no published study ever reported infections like rhinovirus, herpes or candida flaring up in people after ingesting magnesium chloride.

Ever.

And of course, both Linus Pauling and Pierre Delbet proved Vit C/magnesium chloride, multiplied many fold the activity of white blood cells, shortening/curing various infections, the common cold being one of them.
Delbet and many people after him showed how incredibly valuable magnesium chloride is against polio, pneumonia, bronchitis, dipteria, eczema, psoriasis, influenza, pharingitis, tonsilitis, common cold, measles, rubela, osteomyelitis, whooping cough, scarlet fever, herpes, tetanus,

So, how does Eby contradicts all of this? He cites ONE woman (see above) who after taking a magnesium lozenge for her asthma attack saw her cold increase in duration. And he references 3 IN VITRO studies (1 of them about herpes being invalid).

That's all.

In this 80 min interview, Eby confesses of being neither a scientist or medical doctor. How then does he get cited first in his 4 scientific papers co-authored with Halcomb?

How does he become "the world’s leading authority on curing common colds with zinc" as written on his website ?

He links (2007) on his website to a paper by Walter Last lauding the anti-infectious qualities of magnesium chloride and yet denies being aware of them a few months before in his 2006 paper ? How can he possibly be unaware of magnesium chloride's anti infectious properties, since it was these properties which first made it famous (Delbet first used it externally to help keep wounds sterile) ?

The reality is Eby's a salesman with deep pockets who used by hook or by crook the scientific establishment to sell his products. His first marketed the zinc lozenges for the common cold, then the magnesium chloride lozenges for the asthma attacks, completely obscuring the anti- infectious effects in order not to concurrence his first product.

Here's a great example of how corruptible the editors of scientific papers can get.

For proof a 1962 paper showing magnesium chloride enhancing IN VITRO the infectivity of POLIO virus towards kidney cells.

The same magnesium chloride who once administered to a polio victim cures the infection.

 

[Amazoniac]

This is what happens when one takes Narouz' content at face value.

Fact is Ray Peat agrees with Pierre Delbet's research, showing magnesium chloride increases white blood cells activity by 200-300% against microorganisms:


And Narouz' shaky proposition comes not from Ray but from a man named George Eby:

Eby came out of nowhere during the eighties and managed to publish under his name thereafter 29 scientific articles, most of them about a cure for the common cold using a lozenge product patented and sold by himself, zinc ( for colds) and magnesium (for asthma attacks) lozenges.

His 2004 paper begins by the statement " No treatment has been proven to effectively reduce the duration of common colds".

His 2006 article basically claims magnesium enhances the replication of rhinovirus, herpes and candida:


Now, no published study ever reported infections like rhinovirus, herpes or candida flaring up in people after ingesting magnesium chloride.

Ever.

And of course, both Linus Pauling and Pierre Delbet proved Vit C and magnesium chloride, respectively, multiplied many fold the activity of white blood cells, and henceforth proved in scientific publications it would shorten/cure various infections, the common cold being one of them.
Delbet and many people after him showed how incredibly valuable magnesium chloride is against polio, pneumonia, bronchitis, dipteria, eczema, psoriasis, influenza, pharingitis, tonsilitis, common cold, measles, rubela, osteomyelitis, whooping cough, scarlet fever, herpes, tetanus,

So, how does Eby contradicts all of this? He cites ONE woman (see above) who after taking a magnesium lozenge for her asthma attack saw her cold increase in duration. And he references 3 IN VITRO studies (1 of them about herpes being invalid).

That's all.

In this 80 min interview, Eby confesses of being neither a scientist or medical doctor. How then does he get cited first in his 4 scientific papers co-authored with Halcomb?

How can he link (2007) on his website to a paper by Walter Last lauding the anti-infectious qualities of magnesium chloride and yet deny not being aware of them in his 2006 paper ?

The reality is Eby's a salesman with deep pockets who used by hook or by crook the scientific establishment to sell his products. His first marketed the zinc lozenges for the common cold, then the magnesium chloride lozenges for the asthma attacks, completely obscuring the anti- infectious effects in order not to concurrence his first product.

Here's a great example of how corruptible the editors of scientific papers can get.

To attest to that, here's a 1962 paper showing magnesium chloride enhancing IN VITRO the infectivity of POLIO virus towards kidney cells.

The same magnesium chloride who once administered to a polio victim cures the infection.

Thanks for the information!
Like it was mentioned elsewhere, magnesium stimulates metabolism and this can be the main factor that improves immune system, which was even part of the Dietary Genocide book. However this happens once it's absorbed. On that first quote the magnesium was injected. Many orally-administered minerals can feed pathogens, regardless of their antimicrobial activity when concentrated. Those salts keep well for a long time outside of the body, but once inside they are dispersed and must first encounter the infestation and only then be absorbed. Not only that but there are always an unabsorbed fraction that can be problematic. I think that it's a possibility..

 

[marikay]

The only magnesium I can say I truly felt anything either way is Natural Calm, but I don't know if it's one of the better kinds. Now and then I would take some before bed and sleep well, wake up feeling rested. Since the new year, I've been taking magnesium glycinate but when it runs out, I won't get more.

I was thinking of buying some magnesium glycinate. Has it not worked at all for you? Or are there side effects? Thanks.

 

[Peata]

I was thinking of buying some magnesium glycinate. Has it not worked at all for you? Or are there side effects? Thanks.

It's been a while, but I don't remember side effects or anything happening from it.

 

[burtlancast]

Thanks for the information!
Like it was mentioned elsewhere, magnesium stimulates metabolism and this can be the main factor that improves immune system, which was even part of the Dietary Genocide book. However this happens once it's absorbed. On that first quote the magnesium was injected.Many orally-administered minerals can feed pathogens, regardless of their antimicrobial activity when concentrated. .

I believe you're confused: didn't the three in vitro scientific articles cited by Eby use injected magnesium in order to demonstrate it's virus enhancing effects ?

 

[ddjd]

Seeking health Magnesium malate pure powder without any fillers is by far the best thing I've bought to fix my magnesium issues. Far better than glycinate

 

[ddjd]

Magnesium makes me more anxious. Anything that is good for the nerves makes me feel more nervous. Just goes to show how stress hormones can mask artificial energy for so long.

Progesterone good for the nerves. Bad on that?

 

[aquaman]

Magnesium makes me more anxious. Anything that is good for the nerves makes me feel more nervous. Just goes to show how stress hormones can mask artificial energy for so long.

Someone posted a quote from Peat recently about sodium being better than magnesium for nerves. Will try to find it

 

[raypeatclips]

Someone posted a quote from Peat recently about sodium being better than magnesium for nerves. Will try to find it

The message you are quoting is 2 years old by the way and the guy doesn't post anymore.

But the message with Peat you are talking about is mine, but I don't think things are as clear cut as sodium better than magnesium for nerves. There was a lot more going on at the time than simply magnesium giving me anxiety, too many variables to pinpoint one that effected it. That doesn't change what Peat says of course.

 

[Amazoniac]

I believe you're confused: didn't the three in vitro scientific articles cited by Eby use injected magnesium in order to demonstrate it's virus enhancing effects ?

In general, for wound desinfection it's a concentrated solution, this doesn't happen once it's ingested. Once it's ingested there's a constant supply of energy and nutrients. You leave some of them hanging around for more time than they should and you become an attractive host providing food for pathogens. That's the point of disconsidering these in vitro studies. And for example, if magnesium is involved in yeast metabolism (like it was linked before), it's possible that it flares an infection.

 

[Frankdee20]

I was thinking of buying some magnesium glycinate. Has it not worked at all for you? Or are there side effects? Thanks.

Glycinate and Taurinate are decent forms, but there's less elemental Magnesium in them, gram for gram, vs. other forms. You have to pop more pills per day of these to obtain the RDA. They are also not usually associated with laxative properties (Oxide and Citrate are notorious for that). If you want a product of Glycinate with minimal excipients (usually found in tablets) try the Doctors Best powder version, or the Pure Encapsulations capsules. Douglas Labs makes the Taurinate in tablet form (this form is rarely seen encapsulated) with minimal excipients. Again, you'll need like 4 horse pills a day to arrive at 400 mg elemental. These are expensive versions of Magnesium though, and you may do well with cheaper (more efficient) forms. I personally like the Chloride salt in liquid form, as it's very easy to ingest the RDA at once. You can find it from Liquimins-Trace brand, or Cardiovascular Reseach 18% solution Chloride/Acetate. I wonder though, of liquid versions disperse evenly, so shake it, and bake it.