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Want More Progesterone? Increase Magnesium And Decrease Excessive Calcium!

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by André Luiz, May 6, 2018.

  1. André Luiz

    André Luiz Member

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    Want more progesterone? Increase magnesium and decrease excessive calcium!

    Want more progesterone? Increase magnesium and decrease excessive calcium!

    GARRETT SMITH·
    For those who are wondering how to raise their progesterone levels (well, this is only ONE aspect, and it is a huge one). Two words: topical magnesium.
    How to use topical magnesium, you ask? I tell you that here: All about topical magnesium: lotions, sprays, baths, foot soaks, oh my! — Steemit
    On to the evidence. First study (in men):
    Serum ionized magnesium and calcium and sex hormones in healthy young men: importance of serum progesterone level. - PubMed - NCBI
    "The Mg2+ concentration in the young men was directly and significantly related to the progesterone level, and the Ca2+/Mg2+ ratio was inversely related to the progesterone level."
    This means that higher magnesium levels were associated with more progesterone. It also is saying that the higher the calcium-to-magnesium ratio is (known in my hair mineral analysis world as the “blood sugar ratio” and also the “calcification ratio”), the lower the progesterone levels are. High Ca/Mg ratios are present in nearly everyone these days, particularly in those who have a history of ever taking Vitamin D or cold liver oil supplements (these all raise hair calcium levels, see my other notes for more info on calcium itself).
    Second study (in rats):
    http://sci-hub.bz/10.1055/s-2007-979930
    "***The more prolonged low-magnesium diet did reduce progesterone levels significantly***, possibly by altering the intracellular calcium-magnesium balance, or by the adenylate cyclase system."
    Again, less magnesium, less progesterone.
    Third study, linking low magnesium with low Vitamin D levels (and the inverse):
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23981518
    "RESULTS: High intake of total, dietary or supplemental magnesium was independently associated with significantly reduced risks of vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency respectively. Intake of magnesium significantly interacted with intake of vitamin D in relation to risk of both vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency. Additionally, the inverse association between total magnesium intake and vitamin D insufficiency primarily appeared among populations at high risk of vitamin D insufficiency. Furthermore, the associations of serum 25(OH)D with mortality, particularly due to cardiovascular disease (CVD) and colorectal cancer, were modified by magnesium intake, and the inverse associations were primarily present among those with magnesium intake above the median.
    ***CONCLUSIONS: Our preliminary findings indicate it is possible that magnesium intake alone or its interaction with vitamin D intake may contribute to vitamin D status.***"
    A magnesium deficiency will result in your blood showing a so-called “Vitamin D deficiency”. Taking Vitamin D in this situation will make things much worse, as it will imbalance calcium and magnesium even further.
    So, how to summarize this without writing all day...let me try.

    1. If you are magnesium deficient, then you will almost guaranteed come up low on a 25-hydroxycholecalciferol ("storage" Vitamin D) blood test. As the last study says, that D deficiency may be COMPLETELY due to your magnesium deficiency (although if you get very little UVB light, that would also obviously be a factor and should be fixed, see below). HINT: If you are not using a topical magnesium approach regularly and aggressively, you can be dang sure you are deficient in magnesium (to answer it early, NO, pills are nowhere near as effective as topical, in nearly everyone!). Topical approaches include magnesium "oil" spray, Mag-A-Hol, magnesium lotion (DIY or Life-Flo brand), and footsoaks or baths with either magnesium chloride flakes or Epsom salts.

    2. Magnesium deficiency will cause low progesterone.

    3. A calcium-to-magnesium imbalance (ie. a high Ca/Mg ratio, aka too much calcium to too little magnesium on a hair mineral test) will also decrease progesterone (mentioned in both Mg/progesterone studies above). The strongest way to dysfunctionally raise calcium levels is to *take Vitamin D by mouth*. The best way to get a magnesium deficiency is pretty much to *not use topical magnesium*.

    5. Get sunlight (as much as possible without getting burned) and/or use a UVB lamp Vitamin D from low-cost UVB lamps | Vitamin D Wiki to make Vitamin D through the skin. NEVER use Vitamin D supplements OR take cod liver oil (fermented or not).
    I think that covers it. On that final note, were you aware of the theory that Vitamin D supplements (including cod liver oil) are potentially linked to the pandemic rise in all types of allergies? http://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1710-1492-5-8
     
  2. Pompadour

    Pompadour Member

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    Very interesting, thank you!
     
  3. Baltazar

    Baltazar Member

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    Very interesting
    Really

    I never took magnesium in that high amounts

    But truly effective
    Effective in what ? Donna


    But I’m way calmer
    Way less bloated

    I take magnesium after every meal
    And every time I drink coffee I take magnesium

    As I married man with not an easy life
    With lots of kids

    I used to be always down

    Is it progesterone that is making me feel way stronger and nicer
    Still Donna

    For financial reasons
    I stopped eating calcium from cheese and strained Arabic yogurt

    But I never felt better than now

    Did they show serum progesterone changed or anything ? In any study
     
  4. Baltazar

    Baltazar Member

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    I take between 400 to 2000 mg
    Magnesium citrate btw a day
     
  5. bzmazu

    bzmazu Member

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    Thank you, very interesting...long time believer in the importance of Magnesium...I use Mag Chloride, Mag Glycinate oral and Mag Chloride topical...like to alternate, to keep my level at 500-800 mg...interested in IdeaLabs Magnoil.
     
  6. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Garrett Smith is missing the fact that it's a chloride supplement in essence, and the body will have to get rid of its excess, creating in turn other imbalances. Like it was mentioned with Wagner, if most people report benefit from bicarbonates, it means that the body has been taxed and tending towards acidosis; a chronic, low-grade one, that can be difficult to detect because cells are often compromised earlier than the blood. This excess of chlorides will compromise the body further: adequate bicarbonate is needed for magnesium as far as I know.

    Transdermal Magnesium (don't mind my other posts there, I was actually getting paid to say that.)

    In theory the skin should be a good barrier for sodium and chloride, otherwise people would be in trouble when swimming in seawasser:

    "On average, seawater in the world's oceans has a salinity of about 3.5% (35 g/L, 599 mM). This means that every kilogram of seawater has approximately 35 grams (1.2 oz) of dissolved salts (predominantly sodium (Na+) and chloride (Cl−) ions)."​

    Perhaps it's because when something really concentrated (magnesium chloride solutions for example) comes in touch with the skin it tends to exchange and balance. But for sulfate, they have reported its appearance much earlier than magnesium. It's probably the case with chloride as well.

    Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging
    "When water is taken orally, it is absorbed high in the intestine, long before it reaches the colon, so the recommendation to drink water for constipation can produce a situation that's the opposite of intravenous hypertonic saline, by diluting the blood. Using a hypertonic salt solution as an enema can have the same beneficial effect on the intestine as the intravenous treatment."​

    Almost everyone complains about its taste, it's a clear indicator of how unsuitable and detrimental it is in excess. Something that doesn't happen with magnesium glycinate or even malate for example. Another problem with topical is that the body can't grasp and prepare to metabolize what is being absorbed, which starts with mastication; and the body has a chance to control digestion, slow down, retain it in the stomach, vomit to expell something if needed.
    It's a sudden chloride punch that the body will have to get rid off in order to obtain some magnesium later on if left for long enough on the skin.

    While it's a good thing to increase magnesium and decrease calcium if the metabolism is weak, this alone isn't enough to correct the problem. When the conditions are right, a lack of magnesium is easily fixed by supplying a little extra. Rayzord, Travis [if you happen to read this, they used the minus sign above!] and Zeus commented about the need for A and T and P to retain it. The funny thing is that when respiration is restored as a whole, it supports magnesium retention, so it's almost a way of discarting unused nutrients that won't match what the body is capable of currently doing.
     
  7. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Search for "intravenous magnesium": it's difficult to find results for the chloride form.
     
  8. Baltazar

    Baltazar Member

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    Interesting Amazoniacccc thanks
     
  9. OP
    André Luiz

    André Luiz Member

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    Nice, thank you! My mg chloride bottle says that the magnesium content is 11,5% .
    "vomit to expell something if needed " Too much oral magcl or salt give me diarrhea, but doses much higher of topical mgcl did't give me that reaction.
    I was actually getting paid to say that." interesting, very interesting, who was paiyng you? Can i talk with him? :ninja :ss2

    I never imagined that chloride could cause me problems, I used my dear topical magnesium so quietly '0'

    Please, can you tell what you usually eat?
     
  10. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    As per the thread you linked to, does that mean sodium bicarconate could be seen as bicarbonates with sodium as a "bonus"? (So, not so harmful.) In any case from what you and Travis have shared, even Ray to an extent (exchangeable roles of alkaline minerals), potassium bicarbonate could be worth a try, I wonder how it would compare to baking soda for health purpose.
    Would NaCl help the body digest food quicker and better through increased HCl production?
     
  11. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    That's when you consider the hydration.

    Regarding vomiting, it was just an example of the body having more control over the delivery of something and preparation for it when ingested.

    Some people are in need of chlorides and magnesium, so for them it's good. burltan has a good experience with it. Either way, I think it has to be palatable to be healthy.

    I can tell what I don't: milk with some starches for now.
    I think so, because when people supplement it, both are desired but the main benefit comes from bicarbonate, otherwise people would choose other forms with greater proportions, such as pure sodium chloride, which is 40% sodium.

    Potassium bicarbonate is definitely worth a try if you're considering sodium already, it's quite safe, perhaps a combination of these two is ideal. The only concern I have with these bicarbonates is the drop in stomach acidity, maybe Travisord can shed some light on this. So letting it react with fruit acids or vinegar is something to keep in mind. It's easy to find USP-grade products on the market. Prescribed for Life is one company and I'm actually not getting paid to say this. When you take on empty stomach or mix with acids, the impurity issue becomes even more concerning.

    If I remember it right, in this study that Zeus posted, they had similar results with potassium as well.
     
  12. OP
    André Luiz

    André Luiz Member

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    thank you. Hehehe, yes, the expelled was much worse when i drank lot of water i was impressed, no laxative had ever been so powerful :toiletcrapper
     
  13. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    I suspect that the fat-soluble vitamins are better metabolized when they're ingested along each other, rather than using them separately or topically (combined or not). As far as I know, all tissues are able to metabolize them except for vit D, which is only in liver then kidneys. Since one of liver's functions is repartition of nutrients, topical use might deliver them in an uncoordinated vvay. For example, the liver adjusts better how much it's activating, releasing, storing, etc, when it senses from digestion what the meal is about and what the body needs. Topical application by and passes this to a certain degree, and the other fat-solubles reach other tissues before passing first on the liver. I already posted how vitamin A distribution is different in rats when ingested or applied topically.

    Vit K2 in chronic high doses delivered at once are also a little concerning. It's more like a therapeutic approach and I have no idea how the body adapts to it when the person insists on elevated daily doses. I remember Tarmander experiencing some problems with it, I have the impression it's something slightly stressful.
    Between K1, MK-4 and MK-7, K1 is the most saturated of them, and if I recall it correctly, the liver is its main target when absorbed and circulated in such form. Rayzord posted about vitamin A supplements being easily oxidized during digestion (plug), and perhaps the same occurs with K2 as vvell. In this regard, K1 will probably be more stable. It's also protective because if you consume enough greens, you'll have these quinones all throughout the entire digestive tract.
    When you apply a K2 supplement topically, some will eventually reach the liver, but there won't be the normal distribution that occurs with digestion, in which nutrients first pass through the liver and only then reach other tissues. Since most products available contain different menaquinones, MK-4 is rapidly taken up by other tissues and the liver will get the other menaquinones and MK-4 possibly only when other tissues already have an excess of it.
    I know there are trials with it to treat liver cancer but there are a lot of therapies that involve oxidative stress to restore respiration, something unnecessary or even slightly detri and mental for maintenance. I think plenty of greens and a little K2 is a safer approach. In foods these vitamins are protected, therefore they're more resistant to degradation before absorption.

    When it comes to bicarbonate and chloride forms, both have problems in excess. It depends on the state of the person and they can be owadone, it's relatively easy to create imbalances with them. For gurus that don't need chloride, it's such a high price to pay for little magnesium, and there are much better forms available.

    Regarding vit D and calcium, I had my lowest vit D blood level when I was consuming the most calcium and ironically more sun exposure compared to previous tests.

    There are some interviews with MS patients of that doctor whose protocol is essentially a vit D therapy, and many of his patients are tanned (!). I wasn't expecting it, so there's clearly something else going on, and the fact that he recommends 1.2 g of magnesium a day adjusted based on experience is a good sign. He also comments on almost every interview that one of the main cause of relapses is emotional stress, and this happens to flush magnesium out without mercy when the person can't hold on to it.

    When people want to warm up, they intuitively consume more sodium, but many people can benefit from more potassium as well, so a combination of their bicarbonate forms must be better than either of the one alone.
     
  14. Baltazar

    Baltazar Member

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    @Wagner83

    Try

    Potassium for me is miracle as magnesium

    It depends on the ones diet basically
     
  15. Baltazar

    Baltazar Member

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    Amazoniac

    Some real cause cause of vit d
    Deficiencies and mg deficiencies
    Are vitamin low b6 and b2
     
  16. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Thanks for the summary, I'd guess 1mg of mk-4 is already a huge amount, there was also the idea that supplementing mk-4 lowered the body's conversion of k1 to the active form. But haidut has mentioned trials which showed no issues from using much more, perhaps it takes years to show up. I do think that estroban worked more potently than any other fat solubles on their own or even combined with one missing. I don't know if he simply mixes the vitamins himself or if haidut orders it already mixed (perhaps the process gives a different result?). Had you seen a female member's post on this relationship between calcium and vitamin d? It wasn't posted long ago. Travis has talked about hypercalcimia occurring in some people from the combination of both but it was a limited population.
    An other point of travis was that retinol is safe until it isn't anymore and it spills out of the liver, then some people have used horrendous amounts for months with good effects. It always comes down to "is doing better" a reliable marker supplementation is needed/safe. I don't think so, I may have asked ray about this somewhere. On the other hand it can be immobilizing to consider only dangers and risks of imbalances.
     
  17. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    What does it do and what form do you take?
     
  18. Baltazar

    Baltazar Member

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    Chloride

    For me it stops the cramps
    And gives a cleansing bowel movement
     
  19. Tenacity

    Tenacity Member

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    Do you think this is protective? Reducing vitamin D levels so as to not absorb too much calcium? I wonder if your urinary calcium levels were higher.

    I've been using vitamin D for a little while, took a week break, and during that week's break I noticed my eyelid was twitching a lot. Is that a sign of magnesium deficiency?
     
  20. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Low Vitamin D Status despite Abundant Sun Exposure | The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism | Oxford Academic

    "On average, the 93 subjects reported being outside for 22.4 h/wk (1.6) with no sunscreen, and 28.9 h/wk (1.5) with and without sunscreen (Fig. 1). Of subjects, 40% (37 of 93) reported never using sunscreen. The resultant mean sun exposure index score, indicating hours per week of total body skin exposure with no sunscreen used, was 11.1 ± 0.7 (range 1.0–38.4). Only two subjects reported use of tanning booths; as such, the skin darkening noted previously reflects natural sunlight exposure."

    "51% (47 of 93) of these subjects had low vitamin D status (Fig. 2)."

    In this cohort of young adults, substantial variability in serum 25(OH)D concentration exists despite abundant sun exposure. Surprisingly, a 25(OH)D concentration that many would argue to be too low (10), is common in this highly sun-exposed population. Furthermore, regardless of the amount of sun exposure, the serum 25(OH)D concentration does not increase to more than approximately 60 ng/ml.

    Although the presence of “low” 25(OH)D concentration in this population seems counterintuitive, this might be anticipated from an evolutionary standpoint because the high calcium intake of early humans (27) may have allowed maintenance of calcium homeostasis despite low vitamin D status."

    "[..]in 18 Puerto Rican farmers with self-reported sun exposure from 32–70 h/wk, two individuals had a 25(OH)D level less than 30 ng/ml (31). Similarly, low 25(OH)D values were reported in some subjects who used a tanning bed at least once a week for 6 wk (32) and among outdoor workers with a sun index of 11.5 (22). Thus, even substantial sunlight or UV exposure does not ensure maintenance of vitamin D adequacy [based on circulating 25(OH)D] for all individuals, according to currently accepted standards."

    "Holick et al. (33) documented that human skin has the intrinsic ability to limit vitamin D production. Moreover, a reduction in cutaneous concentration of 7-dehydrocholesterol and a concomitant declining capacity of the skin to make vitamin D occur with advancing age (34, 35). However, in our study the population was predominantly young, which should have obviated such reduced capability for vitamin D synthesis. Importantly, lizards with behaviorally high sun exposure have a lower capacity to produce vitamin D than closely related species with habitually less sun exposure (36). Thus, it appears likely that factors exist, which are not yet well understood, that can restrict skin production of vitamin D in response to UV radiation. In any case, it is crucial that we do not wantonly accept the concept that vitamin D deficiency is due exclusively to inadequate UV exposure. Rather, it seems self-evident from this study that low vitamin D status, as it is currently defined, may occur despite “more than adequate” sun exposure."​

    It can be because of a sudden change in electrolytes, it can take some time to adapt. It's good to eat plenty of potassium and magnesium to allow the body to decide what's best to do and regulate any excess.

    25-Hydroxylation of vitamin D 3 : relation to circulating vitamin D 3 under various input conditions | The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition | Oxford Academic

    "[..]at typical inputs of vitamin D3 (whether cutaneous or oral), there is rapid and near-quantitative conversion of vitamin D3 to 25(OH)D, which then serves not only as the functional status indicator of the nutrient but, more important, as its principal storage form in the body. Second, above typical serum vitamin D3 concentrations (ie, above ≈15 nmol/L), which are probably equivalent to a daily input of 2000 IU, the hepatic 25-hydroxylases become saturated and the reaction switches from first order to zero order. Third, the constant (maximal) production of 25(OH)D, irrespective of precursor concentration of vitamin D3, must be in excess of metabolic consumption, which is the reason that serum 25(OH)D continues to rise as vitamin D3 concentrations rise.

    If correct, this explanation may help to clarify many of the uncertainties surrounding vitamin D physiology, one of which is the determination of the approximate concentration of serum 25(OH)D that may be considered optimal for health. Our data offer a different approach to estimating this value. One could plausibly postulate that the point at which hepatic 25(OH)D production becomes zero-order constitutes the definition of the low end of normal status. This value, as suggested from the equation in Figure 3, is at a serum 25(OH)D concentration of ≈88 nmol/L (35.2 ng/mL) (the y-axis intercept of the linear portion of the equation in Figure 3). It is interesting that this estimate is very close to that produced by previous attempts to define the lower end of the normal range from the relations of serum 25(OH)D to calcium absorption (29) and to serum parathyroid hormone concentration (ie, ≈75–85 nmol/L, or 30–34 ng/mL) (30).

    In study A, with a supraphysiologic input, slow release from storage depots is indicated by the slow fall in 25(OH)D3 from its Cmax. The half-time of 25(OH)D is typically on the order of 20–30 d, whereas the approximate half-time in study A for the increment above baseline was >50 d. Fat is the most likely storage depot, although muscle storage cannot be ruled out. Fat storage of vitamin D3 is certainly the case in the rat (as well as in humans) when serum vitamin D3 concentrations are high. Analysis of body distribution in rachitic animals given 14C-labeled vitamin D3 every day for 2 wk showed that the largest amount, ≈10%, appeared in body fat and was slowly released into the circulation over the next several months along with a more polar metabolite—probably 25(OH)D, which had not been identified at that time (31). In obese human subjects, serum 25(OH)D is lower, serum vitamin D may be very low, and rises in serum vitamin D and 25(OH)D after either UV-B irradiation or oral administration of vitamin D2 are significantly lower in obese than in nonobese persons (32, 33).

    Deposition in body fat almost certainly occurs in cases of vitamin D intoxication, and persistence of hypercalcemia for months has been attributed to sustained release of vitamin D from such body stores. Fat storage is also the best explanation for the seeming disappearance of vitamin D3 from the serum in the acute dosing experiment (study A). We cannot rule out some excretion of the large dose of vitamin D3, either directly or by various catabolic reactions; however, the fact that the AUC for the increment in serum 25(OH)D was not lower than that for the increment in serum vitamin D3 suggests little or no wastage of the ingested 100000 IU.

    Taken together, these results show that, as is typical for enzyme systems, there is a practical limit to the first-order 25-hydroxylation of vitamin D3 and that, when vitamin D3 input exceeds that limit, vitamin D3 itself accumulates within the body, both in serum and probably in body fat. From the data presented in Figure 4, it would seem that that threshold occurs at a serum vitamin D3 concentration of ≈15 nmol/L. In turn, such a concentration, from the data of Figure 3, is reached on average at a vitamin D3 input of 2000 IU/d. We suggest that, below this input (whether cutaneous or oral), near-quantitative conversion of vitamin D3 to 25(OH)D3 occurs. Thus, at typical inputs, 25(OH)D3 would constitute the principal storage form of the vitamin."​
     
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