Vitamin A Blocks The Hypercalcemia From Vitamin D

[haidut]

I mention this effect in another post, but wanted to post the studies as well. Basically, the studies with vitamin D alone have been disappointing and in some cases quite negative. For instance, taking only calcium and vitamin D has shown negative effects on CVD and cancer. While the authors struggled to explain the reasons, it likely lies in the fact that without vitamin A and K to ensure proper calcium control, vitamin D alone results in hypercalcemia and calcification of soft tissue. So, combining vitamin D with sufficient vitamin A and K is crucial to not ending up with calcified arteries and organs.
The dosage used for vitamin A were various and the highest one was equivalent to about 150,000 IU daily (retinyl acetate). The last reference is to a human study which used 15mg retinyl palmitate, which amounts to "only" about 27,000 IU retinyl palmitate daily and still ameliorated the hypercalcemic effects of vitamin D.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/135/7/1647.long
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/129/12/2246.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11585356

The takeaway from the studies is mainly this:

"...In addition to the effect of retinyl acetate on vitamin D2 seen in rats fed a rachitogenic diet, retinyl acetate also inhibited vitamin D2 action in rats fed a normocalcemic diet (Table 4). Serum calcium concentration, without vitamin D2 in the diet, was 1.37 mmol/L. In rats administered 5.2 ng vitamin D2/d without retinyl acetate supplementation, the serum calcium level was raised to 2.34 mmol/L, an approximately normal value. By increasing the retinyl acetate levels to 3448 μg/d, the serum calcium response to 5.2 ng of vitamin D2 was eliminated. Thus, an antagonism of vitamin D2 by high doses of retinyl acetate is clearly evident in the elevation of serum calcium."

"...Serum levels of 1,25(OH)2D3 and retinyl esters increased (1.7-fold and 8.3-fold, respectively; p < 0.01). As expected, serum calcium (S-calcium) increased (2.3%; p < 0.01) and S-parathyroid hormone (PTH) decreased (-32%; p < 0.05) after 1,25(OH)2D3 intake. In contrast, retinyl palmitate intake resulted in a significant decrease in S-calcium when taken alone (-1.0%; p < 0.05) and diminished the calcium response to 1,25(OH)2D3 after the combined intake (1.4%; p < 0.01). S-PTH was unaffected by retinyl palmitate. No significant changes in serum levels of the degradation product of C-telopeptide of type I collagen (CrossLaps), or U-calcium/creatinine levels were found. In conclusion, an intake of vitamin A corresponding to about one serving of liver antagonizes the rapid intestinal calcium response to physiological levels of vitamin D in man."

From the human study - a dose of vitamin A found in one serving of liver blocked the hypercalcemic effect of vitamin D in humans. More importantly, vitamin A did NOT prevent the (presumably) beneficial effect of vitamin D on reducing (by about 32%) levels of parathyroid hormone (PTH). So, it looks like with vitamin D you can have your cake and eat it too (with vitamin A).

In summary, for those people supplementing with vitamin D3 and wanting to avoid the resulting hypercalcemia (prolonged hypercalcemia is harmful) - make sure to take sufficient vitamin A. A good rule of thumb is a ratio of 1:5 for Vitamin D : Vitamin A. Adding vitamin K will ensure the calcium goes to the bone and not the soft tissues. Adding vitamin E to the mix will ensure the vitamin A does not oxidize.

 

[emmanceb]

Good stuff, so if we don't get enough Calcium/D but too much A/K in relation then that would produce hypocalcemia?

 

[Dean]

So, say you took your Estroban and then ate a couple ounces of liver/wk to compensate for daily sun exposure, would this likely work out well enough to get your body to utilize calcium & D properly without taking in an amount of A that would be thyroid-suppressive?

 

[haidut]

So, say you took your Estroban and then ate a couple ounces of liver/wk to compensate for daily sun exposure, would this likely work out well enough to get your body to utilize calcium & D properly without taking in an amount of A that would be thyroid-suppressive?

The doses in EstroBan are small enough to be taken daily. Liver eaten weekly on top of EstroBan will probably add benefit but very little or no harm.

 

[gretchen]

I honestly really can't believe that vitamin D causes tissues to calcify. Sure, I think vitamin A is crucial and apparently the studies show that. I never ate liver or supplemented till last winter, after I nuked myself all summer with blue light(I laid out after noon). The effects were beneficial, true. Does this mean not eating liver negates the life sustaining effects of red light? (Ie morning light which is a good source of vitamin D)

 

[Suikerbuik]

It does look for example at RANKL.

 

[Elderflower j58]

Hello,this topic has made me realise I am very ignorant about vits/minerals/hormones/etc etc.Over the years I have ingested various supplements willy nilly ,never considering their reaction to each other or my food intake.I now find myself quite unwell after a bad heart attack and very frightened,bad side effects from the prescribed meds.This year around June I started vitamin d as I never get much sun and people are suppose'dly deficient ,as I'm sure I am .I never took vitamin A or any other supplement so this topic grabbed my attention,I have heart disease anyway but just wonder'd could the vitamin D contributed .

 

[LucH]

post 80822 I honestly really can't believe that vitamin D causes tissues to calcify.

An extreme imbalance between vitamins A and D leads to the synthesis of abnormally high amounts of MGP. If there is enough vitamin K to activate all of the MGP, it will help protect the soft tissues from calcification.

MGP = matrix Gla protein

Excerpt from:
Vitamin D toxicity redefined: vitamin K and the molecular mechanism.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17145139
Masterjohn C

LucH

 

[LucH]

Interactions Between Vitamins K and D
Whereas vitamins A and D act as hormones, communicating to cells which proteins they should make, vitamin K activates a select group of vitamin K-dependent proteins after they have already been made. Since some of the proteins that vitamin K activates are the very same proteins that cells make in response to signals from vitamins A and D, it would be a serious error of omission to begin a discussion of either our requirements for or the toxicity of vitamin D without first examining its interactions with vitamin K.
Although vitamin K is most commonly known for its ability to activate blood clotting factors, it is also responsible for the activation of two other important proteins: osteocalcin, which is involved in the mineralization of bone matrix, and matrix Gla protein (MGP), which protects soft tissues from calcification.75 Since vitamin D is necessary for proper bone mineralization and its most common toxic effect is the calcification of soft tissues, the importance of the relationship between vitamins K and D should already be clear.
Molecular biology clarifies this relationship even further. Osteocalcin is produced exclusively by osteoblasts, which are the cells that form new bone matrix. While collagen forms the main framework of bone matrix, osteocalcin is responsible for its mineralization.76 [highlight=yellow]Osteoblasts make osteocalcin when they are signalled to do so by the hormonal forms of vitamins A and D[/highlight]. When osteoblast cells are incubated with activated vitamin A or activated vitamin D alone, their expression of osteocalcin increases only minimally; by contrast, when the same cells are incubated with activated vitamins A and D together, osteocalcin expression increases dramatically.77
[highlight=yellow]This osteocalcin, however, cannot function until it is activated by vitamin K[/highlight].75 Therefore, no one of these three nutrients can contribute to bone health without the presence of the other two.
Epidemiological evidence and clinical trials confirm the importance of vitamin K to osteoporosis. Blood levels of inactivated osteocalcin are strongly associated with an increased risk of fracture, while vitamin K intake is strongly associated with a reduced risk of fracture.
(...)
Excerpt from:
Vitamin A protects against vitamin D toxicity 03
http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/cmast ... y-in-cows/

 

[LucH]

vitamin D exerts toxicity by inducing a deficiency of vitamin K.
Excerpt from:
Vitamin D toxicity redefined: vitamin K and the molecular mechanism.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17145139

 

[LucH]

Two studies found a [highlight=yellow]U shaped curve[/highlight], that is, an increased risk of prostate cancer at both lower and higher vitamin D levels. You guessed it; both of these studies were from Nordic countries where cod liver oil consumption is rampant.
Yin L et al. Meta-analysis of longitudinal studies: Serum vitamin D and prostate cancer risk. Cancer Epidemiol. 2009 Dec;33(6):435-45.


The benefits of vitamin D are almost entirely negated in those with the highest vitamin A intake. And the retinol intake did not have to be that high in these older adults to begin to negate vitamin D's effects, about 3,000 IU/day.
Source: Dr. Mazda Jenab and his 45 colleagues from the International Agency for Research on Cancer.

Decodage: Low or high level of vitamin A is bad (U shape). You must be situated at the bottom the curve.

Excerpt:
This is the largest study to date showing vitamin A blocks vitamin D's effect and explains some of the anomalies in other papers on vitamin D and cancer. For example, Dr. Rachael Stolzenberg-Solomon of the NIH conducted two similar studies on pancreatic cancer, with startling different results. Her first paper showed high vitamin D levels tripled the subsequent risk of pancreatic cancer, her second paper showed no effect. The difference, the first was conducted in a cod liver oil country, Finland, the second in the USA.

Stolzenberg-Solomon RZ et al. A prospective nested case-control study of vitamin D status and pancreatic cancer risk in male smokers. Cancer Res. 2006 Oct 15;66(20):10213-9.

Stolzenberg-Solomon RZ, et al. Serum vitamin D and risk of pancreatic cancer in the prostate, lung, colorectal, and ovarian screening trial. Cancer Res. 2009 Feb 15;69(4):1439-47.

Prostate cancer is another good example; ten similar studies have been conducted on vitamin D blood levels and the risk of subsequent prostate cancer. Dr. Lu Yin of the German Cancer Research Center reviewed them in detail. Eight of the studies found no relationship but two studies found a U shaped curve, that is, an increased risk of prostate cancer at both lower and higher vitamin D levels. You guessed it; both of these studies were from Nordic countries where cod liver oil consumption is rampant.
Yin L et al. Meta-analysis of longitudinal studies: Serum vitamin D and prostate cancer risk. Cancer Epidemiol. 2009 Dec;33(6):435-45.

NB: The elderly of many countries, not just Nordic countries, were raised on cod liver oil and I suspect that a sizable number of Americans continue to take cod liver oil as they age. While cod liver oil from the 1980s and 90s had higher amounts of vitamin D than does modern cod liver oil, it still had toxic amounts of A.
I say this because one author has controlled for retinol intake and the pre-cancerous condition, colon adenomas. Dr. Kyungwon Oh, of the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, working with Harvard epidemiologists, found that [highlight=yellow]high retinol intake completely thwarted the beneficial effects of vitamin D, stating, "a higher retinol intake, approximately > 4,800 IU/day, appears to counter the beneficial effect of vitamin D . . ."[/highlight] In other words, exactly what the British Medical Journal paper found with colon cancer.

Oh K et al. Calcium and vitamin D intakes in relation to risk of distal colorectal adenoma in women. Am J Epidemiol. 2007 May 15;165(10):1178-86.

 

[LucH]

My point of view:
I woudl take cod liver oil or organic chicken liver. Avoid other sources because the liver focuses toxins.
I take one caps of chlorella (500 mg), only one when I eat fish or liver.
Minimum once a month. Max once a week. A portion = 80 gr.

I won't say, like John Cannell, MD, to suppress cod liver oil but to be cautious. One teaspoonful cod liver oil is enough.

Cod liver oil concentration:
One teaspoon of cod liver oil historically contained 400 International Units (IU) of vitamin D. But some modern cod liver oils contain very little vitamin D.
However, cod liver oil is not currently regulated or standardized in the United States, and the concentration of both vitamins D and A can vary with the manufacturer ... Keep that in mind.
there is often a ratio 1/10 (D/A) in cod liver oil.

I would add some vitamin D3,1.000 Ui, if I take a teaspoon cod liver oil.

 

[LucH]

post 80822 I nuked myself all summer with blue light(I laid out after noon).

Keep in mind the benefits depends on the wave length: between 290 - 315 nm. Especially interesting between 300 et 310 nm. So not near moonlignt or dawn.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2839537

You have to know latitude:
Paris 48°
Brussel 50°
New york 40°


But for mood (serotonine), blue light is perfect.

 

[LucH]

post 69168 A good rule of thumb is a ratio of 1:5 for Vitamin D : Vitamin A. Adding vitamin K will ensure the calcium goes to the bone and not the soft tissues. Adding vitamin E to the mix will ensure the vitamin A does not oxidize.

good job.

For people who capped at 40-50 ng Vitamin D, do not try to climb higher. Between 50 - 70 is very well. Try to remain above 30 - 35 ng. It's a personal advice.
If you take more than 400 - 2000 Ui Vit D3, Vit K2 is needed. Type Mk4 with some MK7 (half life 72 H).
I take twice a week 1 softgel of Super K from Life extension (Advanced K2 complex). Try to get 100 UI MK7 in; otherwise you would have to take it every day.

 

[LucH]

post 69168 Adding vitamin E to the mix will ensure the vitamin A does not oxidize.

I would also take care of natural beta-carotene, between 5 - 10 mg, from natural sources (fruits or vegetables).
Vit E protects artery walls in surface; B-carotene in deep.
No supplement of beta-carotene (pill) if you smoke.

When we speak about vit E, we mean a mix of natural tocopherols. not only alpha-tocopherols as in many softgels.

LucH

 

[LucH]

Vitamin A protects against vitamin D toxicity in part by helping to properly regulate the production of vitamin K-dependent proteins.

=> Tufts University Confirms That Vitamin A Protects Against Vitamin D Toxicity by Curbing Excess Production of Vitamin K-Dependent Proteins
by Chris Masterjohn

To comment:
Is the theory that fat-soluble vitamins are synergistic rather than antagonistic is ready to die a natural death?
=> Will we finally stop claiming that vitamin A is antagonist of vitamin D. They act in synergy effect.
=> Vitamin D increases the need for and turnover of vitamin A.

 

[haidut]

post 100898 Vitamin A protects against vitamin D toxicity in part by helping to properly regulate the production of vitamin K-dependent proteins.

=> Tufts University Confirms That Vitamin A Protects Against Vitamin D Toxicity by Curbing Excess Production of Vitamin K-Dependent Proteins
by Chris Masterjohn

To comment:
Is the theory that fat-soluble vitamins are synergistic rather than antagonistic is ready to die a natural death?
=> Will we finally stop claiming that vitamin A is antagonist of vitamin D. They act in synergy effect.
=> Vitamin D increases the need for and turnover of vitamin A.

Thanks for all that information. I only want to add that if vitamin K2 (MK-4) is taken topically it has a much much longer half-life - i.e on the order of 36+. So, taking it topically means you probably don't need to supplement MK-7 and can take it only 2-3 times a week.

 

[jaa]

I want to bathe in estroban.

 

[haidut]

post 100930 I want to bathe in estroban.

Music to my ears

 

[Elderflower j58]

post 100870 Hello,this topic has made me realise I am very ignorant about vits/minerals/hormones/etc etc.Over the years I have ingested various supplements willy nilly ,never considering their reaction to each other or my food intake.I now find myself quite unwell after a bad heart attack and very frightened,bad side effects from the prescribed meds.This year around June I started vitamin d as I never get much sun and people are suppose'dly deficient ,as I'm sure I am .I never took vitamin A or any other supplement so this topic grabbed my attention,I have heart disease anyway but just wonder'd could the vitamin d have contributed .