PROGRESS REPORT FASTEST FAT LOSS EVER THANKS TO RAYYY

[theLaw]

Haha nooo I dont have lots of experience, I just joined this forum a few short months ago - the allure of the Ray Peat ways is of healing the metabolism after years of restriction, low carb, ultimately running on stress - and since the source of the detrimental stress response is PUFA, I think it follows that any efforts to block PUFA would yield an increase in vitality. In this case, sat. fat is blocking the PUFA, but Ray seems more in line with using other compounds to block PUFA like vitamin E, aspirin, and niacinamide, and upping the sugar tremendously to nullify stress hormones; HOWEVER, this latter approach seems MUCH much harder to put into practice, the only member I can note seeing that was successful in this was @visionofstrength, although theoretically it should be superior

+1

VOS was keeping a very simple limited diet while losing fat quickly using the methods above, but I think his liver was also in good shape which can be a game-changer, not to mention his CO2 tank. High-dose aspirin with ongoing liver issues can be a disaster.

Also, Kreeese posts about working out, so perhaps the zero starch + high-sugar + high sat fat is working because he's on the more active end of the spectrum due to the workouts. Temps would confirm.

 

[tallglass13]

My belly has gone down, haven't weighed myself yet. My energy and mind feels good. yesterday, ate lots of sugar, felt energetic while working a long 13 hour ER shift , and still had energy at home. I ate about 3 0z of cheese topped with honey. Damn that was good. doing that again today, along with sugar pepsi. Ive been deep frying in coconut oil for dinner. I must say I haven't been strict, I still drink Imported beer and my have some type of starch at dinner. Ive been making ground beef burritos or fried chicken tenders sandwiches for dinner . my son loves my cooking.

 

[Sobieski]

Peat's has said that half of calories can come via fructose. He's also said he has eaten as high as 50% fat in the past. He's also said that the ideal ration could be a third of each macro-nutrient. I think the take-home point is that anything that is pro metabolic can work well, depending on genetics and lifestyle. I also feel best on lots of sugar and saturated fat. I think it can be beneficial for the body to have both energy substrates to work with. When I went low carb in the distant past, I put the lack of water retention as down to cutting ouy carbs in general. I now know that it is starch that tends to cause water weight, as when I consume lots of sugar in combination with saturated fat it has the same edema and fat reducing effect as a low carb diet, sans the stress and inability to function.

Another thing that I have noticed, is that when I eat a high saturated fat meal it seems to be digested almost straight away. In other words, I can eat an omelette of 6 large eggs and 150g of cheese cooked in coconut oil (over 1000 calories) and 5 minutes later it's as if I haven't even eaten (though I'm not hungry). 1000 calories of a carb based meal (whether sugar or starch) doesn't leave me feeling light and energetic like that.

 

[cyclops]

I guess the optimal ratio of protein:carbs:fat comes down to your genetics, current state of health, lifestyle, location, goals, etc. Maybe you just got to experiment a little to see what works best for you and even then that may change in the future.

 

[Blossom]

Thanks for sharing your experience @kreeese and congrats on your results! It's obvious after being around here a while that not everyone thrives on a low fat diet so it's nice to read your story.

 

[managing]

I live in Indiana. Will be on look out for Mexican coke...lol

All of the Mexican markets in Indianapolis carry it (originally a Hoosier myself).

That guy on the left tastes soooooooo good

 

[cyclops]

I wonder why Mexican coke taste so good. I tried some other "real sugar" colas and they dont compare.

 

[CLASH]

What’s the mechanism by which dairy opiates cause weight gain? Is it simply that they make you hungry and thus eat more calories?

@Travis disscussed it in depth in some of his threads in regards to lowering dopamine via the opiate effect and thus upregulating prolactin. This prolactin leads to deposition of weight in areas high in prolactin receptors. I also think the dairy opiates slow down the GI tract (similar to taking a percocet) leading to constipaion (which I expereinced and some people who eat cheese often experience) and thus the holding of water weight in the abdominal region. When people gain weight rapidly like 20lbs in a month, its definetly not fat deposition, its most likely water weight. Many patients I see in the hospital are overweight, some obese but its not sub Q fat and visceral fat thats maiking them that massively large; theres alot of fluid in thier tissues. Obviously theres a decent amount of fat too, dont get me wrong but I think the hormonal milieu leads to rapid water weight over fat weight especially in rapid weight gain.

@tara
My point with the burning is that to determine the calories of food, from what I understand, scientist burn food in whats called a bomb calorimeter which captures the heat and they then make the heat conversion to calories (which is a measure of heat in the way that an inch is a measure of length). Our bodies oxidize sugar/ fat but nothing close to the way that calories are measured in the sense above. Thats why I think calories only help with an associative factor of food amount and nothing more. It doesnt make sense to use it conclusively for any studies except for massive extremes of the calorie intake scale (i.e. significant overfeeding vs. restriction). Due to the nature of the bodies utilization of the three macros in a vast number of ways, to simplify thier intake into calories seems foolish at best for anything conclusive. Especially because of the vast interactions of different nutrients and factors on whether or not that food gets oxidized or used for structural purposes or enzymatic function etc. Etc. Also we all know hormones play a larger part into this than calories ever really will. Overall I think how we think about something is very important. You can have a ton of info but how you think about it can make the differnce in an exponential benefit of the info or just a small increase in benefit. Lastly, theory is good as a basis but I think experience is the final determination, especially because the theory is relatively static in an ever evolving context. So the static theory has to be applied with experience ro create an fluid evolving theory that evolves with context that the theory may not have accounted for. This is why I think Peat’s recommendarons to some extent are seemingly all over the place, your looking at snapshots of specific contexts of peats own evolving theory.

 

[tara]

@tara..huh???
We all have listened to ray peat actually talking, and he says he eats OJ ,fruit ,cheese,eggs , butter and coconut oil for cooking... aren't these facts?
I hope he calls his diet book "The Ray Peat diet plan for weight loss"..pretty accurate
but then again I'm just noting advertising context of this thread...

The OP's diet might be great for him - I hope so. But from what I've read, it is not one that Peat consistently recommends to everyone, or most people, or specifically for fat loss. Unless you have a very loose meaning of diet, which is fine. But the OP has been talking about something more precise. Which is also fine, if he is talking about himself and his experiments, and not evangelising about it or labelling it as Peat's recommendation.

I don’t understand the criticisms here.

I'm not sure if this is directed at me?
I'm not criticising what OP is eating, or saying that it's not in at least some aspects RP-inspired. It sounds as though it is going well for him, and that is good. I hope it continues to go well in the long term. If/when it does, that will be interesting to me too.

@tara he’s eating fatty cuts of beef, milk, butter, cheese, coconut oil, fruits, sugar, and soda. That’s what so many other people on this board are eating, except he’s eating more fats and less carbohydrates. And he’s losing weight. I don’t see the need to be concerned.

If weight -loss is your only concern, then we are not in the same conversation.

My concerns are about calling it 'THE Ray Peat Diet', as though it is THE way to eat if following Ray Peat's advice. It is one particular variant of a wide range of possible diets that people have or could try inspired by Peat's ideas. It has no more claim to be 'The Ray Peat Diet' than many of the other (quite different) ones that people here have practiced for short or long periods. I don't like it when others do that either, but if it's just in this thread, then it's of no more concern than all the other threads where people say they are eating 'the Peat diet' or that they are 'peating' etc (and unless they spell out what they are eating, I don't know what they mean, other than that it's probably not super high in seed oils). However, the OP has said he is intending to write and publish a 'bestseller' book, and makes strong claims. If he did that, using the phrase 'the Ray Peat diet', it would put it in a different category as far as I'm concerned. I suspect RP may also think so, but I don't know - that's why I think he should ask Peat if it comes to that, and not use the phrase without Peat's explicit written agreement.

I also have concerns about anyone making excessively bold claims and giving excessively strong advice to other people about following a method, especially one that they have only practiced for a short time (a few weeks). As many of you know, there are a lot of survivors here trying to recover from previous diets (esp. weight/fat loss diets) that they may have been initially enthusiastic about and which eventually caused them harm. That does not mean I think the OP is doing something wrong in his diet - he may be on a promising track for himself, which may or may not benefit from some tweaking as he goes on, and maybe something similar will work for some other people. My problem is with his expressing extreme confidence that he now has THE solution that is guaranteed to work for him and others. (While intermittently acknowledging his ignorance of large areas of Peat's basic writing, but it could be a problem even if he had read it all.)

Note forum Rule 2. f.:

2. We Do Not Permit
f. Claims of miraculous or certain results for everybody by any particular proposed set of actions.

Terms of Service and Rules | Ray Peat Forum

I'll acknowledge a bit of healthy background scepticism about anyone's intention to appeal to the general public's demand for books on 'how to lose weight fast and easy'. I think anyone aiming to do that should have their project subjected to a bit of extra scrutiny.
I want books that claim to be about facts to be well supported by the evidence, or at least to not make claims that overstate the evidence too much. I want diets to sustain long term health, not just to be consistent with weight (or fat) loss. And I want a lot of care to be taken in this area, because a lot of harm has been done in the past.
So there's that too.

Maybe @kreeese found something that can work for others in reducing bodyfat while improving the metabolism. The first few pages of this thread try to identify the mechanisms in which that happen. Or maybe he’s dead wrong and is ruining his health in the process.

Yip, that could happen. I hope it works for him, and I hope there are others who learn something useful from it.
I recommend not throwing out what you or others have already learned here or elsewhere about other aspects of nutrition and health - eg paying attention to signs and symptoms regarding metabolism, including monitoring temps, attending to wider nutritional aspects including minerals, etc.

If eating “Peaty” foods and erring with more fats in place of some carbs is working for him, then I think it provides us with something to investigate, and subsequently, value.

Yip, investigation is interesting. Claiming to know what the results will be doesn't sound so much like an investigation, and already planning the 'bestseller' could put reputational and financial incentives at odds with realism and objectivity of observations.

Peat has been on record saying that optimal macronutrient ratios are not known ...

+1

... and perhaps something like a third of each macro would be effective. I even recall him saying that 50% of calories could be saturated fat and it'd still be safe.

and I think he have have said it may vary from person to person too?
And lately Peat seems to have been favouring higher sugar, lower fat, at least for himself. I'm not saying that the OP or anyone else should do that, just including it for breadth of context.

I guess the optimal ratio of protein:carbs:fat comes down to your genetics, current state of health, lifestyle, location, goals, etc. Maybe you just got to experiment a little to see what works best for you and even then that may change in the future.

+1

 

[tara]

@tara
My point with the burning is that to determine the calories of food, from what I understand, scientist burn food in whats called a bomb calorimeter which captures the heat and they then make the heat conversion to calories (which is a measure of heat in the way that an inch is a measure of length). Our bodies oxidize sugar/ fat but nothing close to the way that calories are measured in the sense above. Thats why I think calories only help with an associative factor of food amount and nothing more. It doesnt make sense to use it conclusively for any studies except for massive extremes of the calorie intake scale (i.e. significant overfeeding vs. restriction). Due to the nature of the bodies utilization of the three macros in a vast number of ways, to simplify thier intake into calories seems foolish at best for anything conclusive. Especially because of the vast interactions of different nutrients and factors on whether or not that food gets oxidized or used for structural purposes or enzymatic function etc. Etc. Also we all know hormones play a larger part into this than calories ever really will. Overall I think how we think about something is very important. You can have a ton of info but how you think about it can make the differnce in an exponential benefit of the info or just a small increase in benefit. Lastly, theory is good as a basis but I think experience is the final determination, especially because the theory is relatively static in an ever evolving context. So the static theory has to be applied with experience ro create an fluid evolving theory that evolves with context that the theory may not have accounted for. This is why I think Peat’s recommendarons to some extent are seemingly all over the place, your looking at snapshots of specific contexts of peats own evolving theory.

OK, I see your point about calories. I think the concept is useful at a macro-level sometimes, but it has it's limitations, given the complexities of how food/nutrition is used in the body for structure and function.
And yes, I agree how we think about things is important.
I agree that experience is very important. Also, one person's experience cannot automatically be assumed to apply straightforwardly to the next person.
Yes, I have no problem accepting that Peat has said various things in different times and contexts and to different people who may be struggling with particular issues, as he learns and develops his hypotheses and theories over time.
I find it disturbing when individual quotes from comments given at a particular time and place and audience get taken as a basis for "I'm eating 'The Peat Diet'".

 

[CLASH]

@tara
I agree with you on all points above. I know you dont want people to take kreeese’s statements the wrong way, especially if they are just coming to the thread, makes sense especially because of the interpretation that people often take with these matters. Although, based on my perception I dont get the sense kreeese is intending that, but obviously intention and interpretation are two seperate things sometimes....
Just want to clarify, I wasn’t intending for my post to be “at you” just got lost in a stream of consciousness. I wasn’t implying with my statements that you didn’t agree or think in that way, I was initially responding to your post about calories then got stuck on the train of thought. Thanks for your replies and thoughts.

 

[kreeese]

+1

VOS was keeping a very simple limited diet while losing fat quickly using the methods above, but I think his liver was also in good shape which can be a game-changer, not to mention his CO2 tank. High-dose aspirin with ongoing liver issues can be a disaster.

Also, Kreeese posts about working out, so perhaps the zero starch + high-sugar + high sat fat is working because he's on the more active end of the spectrum due to the workouts. Temps would confirm.

most definitely I have fun lifting weights 3 times a week full body lots of energy from the sugar and fruits excellent muscle pumps...In the past when I tried low carb higher fat and protein diets I didnt even wanna look at a gym:))

 

[kreeese]

My belly has gone down, haven't weighed myself yet. My energy and mind feels good. yesterday, ate lots of sugar, felt energetic while working a long 13 hour ER shift , and still had energy at home. I ate about 3 0z of cheese topped with honey. Damn that was good. doing that again today, along with sugar pepsi. Ive been deep frying in coconut oil for dinner. I must say I haven't been strict, I still drink Imported beer and my have some type of starch at dinner. Ive been making ground beef burritos or fried chicken tenders sandwiches for dinner . my son loves my cooking.

fantastic...I have a "cheat" day once a week or 10 days ..basically lots of starches breads pasta pizza whatever i want...!

 

[kreeese]

Peat's has said that half of calories can come via fructose. He's also said he has eaten as high as 50% fat in the past. He's also said that the ideal ration could be a third of each macro-nutrient. I think the take-home point is that anything that is pro metabolic can work well, depending on genetics and lifestyle. I also feel best on lots of sugar and saturated fat. I think it can be beneficial for the body to have both energy substrates to work with. When I went low carb in the distant past, I put the lack of water retention as down to cutting ouy carbs in general. I now know that it is starch that tends to cause water weight, as when I consume lots of sugar in combination with saturated fat it has the same edema and fat reducing effect as a low carb diet, sans the stress and inability to function.

Another thing that I have noticed, is that when I eat a high saturated fat meal it seems to be digested almost straight away. In other words, I can eat an omelette of 6 large eggs and 150g of cheese cooked in coconut oil (over 1000 calories) and 5 minutes later it's as if I haven't even eaten (though I'm not hungry). 1000 calories of a carb based meal (whether sugar or starch) doesn't leave me feeling light and energetic like that.

absolutely SPOT ON. The energy and the digestion is tremendous...after eating bigger fatty meals I honestly feel I could run around the block..its insane! high fat high sugar has really been an eye opener for me

 

[kreeese]

Thanks for sharing your experience @kreeese and congrats on your results! It's obvious after being around here a while that not everyone thrives on a low fat diet so it's nice to read your story.

thanks I had no clue people here followed a low fat diet!!! All the clips I had been listening to of Ray mentioned alot of sat fatty foods just watch PUFAS...very interesting
we should take a poll

 

[tallglass13]

@tara...you said"if weight loss is your only concern we're not in the same conversation"..to a member that was only quoting what the guy was eating, and that he was losing weight eating so many calories of a mixture of fat and sugar... And you tell him"if weight loss is your only concern we're not in the same conversation"...ouch!that's very obscure, and passive aggressive...my opinion. ..

 

[tallglass13]

Kreeese's results are a "plus" for the ray peat food recommendations...there should be an applaud for that. ..not," well let's see when you crash, how good your diet is!"
I just can't help but think how strange is to have any bit of criticism...
the ray peat diet is extraordinary already and we're supposed to be different than the average person, not criticizing each other in our own world here...unless someone's going rogue and spreading non Peat stuff on aRay peat Forum then of course I would expect the moderators to do what they have to do.

 

[tallglass13]

BTW. ..cheese and honey is such a good meal... Been on that at work and I don't feel lethargic and it gives me pretty good energy...for the rest of the day and night..

 

[A.R]

BTW. ..cheese and honey is such a good meal... Been on that at work and I don't feel lethargic and it gives me pretty good energy...for the rest of the day and night..

How do you manage to combine the two? Could you take a picture of it if possible please

 

[kreeese]

How do you manage to combine the two? Could you take a picture of it if possible please

lol u are hilarious!! Take spoon. drizzle honey on cheese!!! Let me get my camera!!!!