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High carbs for fat loss/ increase metabolic rate? Asking for some advice.

natewill

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Mar 18, 2020
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I’ve been familiar with Ray Peat for awhile but my mental health has been very bad since the beginning of 2020 up until now. I eat all the “peat” foods, followed by binge eating junk filled with pufa, and alcohol consumption to escape. Im cutting out alcohol and processed foods. I’m finally moving and starting a new job that will keep me on my feet 8 hours per day. I’m ready to finally go all in and get back to my healthy self (pictures attached).

After reading through this forum, reading Ray’s articles, and listening to @Hans podcast, I notice that having carbs in the diet is necessary to support the metabolic rate, which will help with fat loss. Currently I weigh 285 and would like to return back to 225 in a safe way.

I want to track my calories for a bit as well as my physical activity to make sure I am not stressing my body too much. Would a high carb intake be fine for significant weight loss? I’m in it for the long haul as it took me 1.5-2 years to put on 60 pounds. Wondering how my macros should be and if anyone has other tips that can help me? I plan to post regularly in this thread with updates to track my progress.

my blood pressure is slightly elevated (140’s over 90’s) as well as elevated cholesterol and blood sugar. My HDL is fairly low as well. Im 25 years old. Clear metabolic syndrome.
 

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natewill

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To clarify, my question is how many carbs should I be eating? All of the information online suggests a low carb diet for fat loss but that contradicts everything this forum is about. Weighing 285 lbs, im thinking of eating about 200g protein. Should my carbs be around 350-400g?
 

peter88

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Mar 27, 2021
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Id say at least a 2:1 carbs to protein, so 400 would make sense. But you could always increase/decrease depending on how you feel.
 

Hans

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To clarify, my question is how many carbs should I be eating? All of the information online suggests a low carb diet for fat loss but that contradicts everything this forum is about. Weighing 285 lbs, im thinking of eating about 200g protein. Should my carbs be around 350-400g?
Carbs do not inhibit fat loss as claimed by the insulin hypothesis of obesity. But carbs will also not necessarily stimulate the metabolic rate to any appreciable rate. Fructose can restore dysfunctional diet-induced thermogenesis, which doesn't respond to glucose, but that is only about 10% of total daily energy expenditure.

Carbs are great for lowering stress and stress makes it very hard to lose that spare tire. On the other hand, the wrong carbs that make you go on blood sugar rollercoasters will also release cortisol and promote fat retention/regain.

So the whole goal is to eat foods that digest well and that satiate you well and that also give you a lot of energy. Lots of protein and starches can make a lot of sluggish, which is obviously not good. Milk and fruit make me feel light and energized, so that's what I do best on. Others feel light and great after a steak and some rice. So you'll have to see what works for you.
But at the end of the day, it comes down to foods that energize you. When you are energized you want to move around more. This is when you'll have the motivation to walk more and do more stuff that will burn more calories. If you force exercise to the point of excess fatigue, you'll move less the rest of the day, thus completely compensating for the energy burned during exercise.

So to answer your question, if you eat 200g protein, then I'd go for 300g minimum on carbs. But see how you feel on that amount of protein and what you crave. If you feel warm and energetic on that amount, keep eating it. If you don't do so well on that amount, and crave carbs instead, then switch out some protein for carbs.
 

mostlylurking

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I notice that having carbs in the diet is necessary to support the metabolic rate, which will help with fat loss.
In a perfect world yes. However, if you do things like drink alcohol, coffee, tea, consume sugar, and starch, which use up/block your thiamine function you will gain weight not lose it. Optimizing oxidative metabolism is important for weight loss. A thiamine deficiency blocks oxidative metabolism.
 

Vins7

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Feb 23, 2020
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In a perfect world yes. However, if you do things like drink alcohol, coffee, tea, consume sugar, and starch, which use up/block your thiamine function you will gain weight not lose it. Optimizing oxidative metabolism is important for weight loss. A thiamine deficiency blocks oxidative metabolism.
Does the sugar in fruit juices also block thiamine function?
 

mostlylurking

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Does the sugar in fruit juices also block thiamine function?
I've been dealing with a thiamine functional blockage exacerbated by the antibiotic Bactrim I took summer of 2020. This made me very sick and also very aware of the symptoms of thiamine deficiency/blockage. After researching the issue, I've come to believe that my thiamine problem has been a problem for me for at least 60 years and is tied to my heavy metal toxin load (mercury amalgam fillings, aluminum, lead). It seems that heavy metals block thiamine function. The older you get, the more heavy metals your body has accumulated; they don't just "go away". Taking the Bactrim on top of the heavy metal toxins damn near killed me.

Anyhow, it is my understanding that sugar does NOT block thiamine function but it does require thiamine to utilize sugar for energy so if you are low in thiamine or suffer from a thiamine functional blockage, consuming sugar exacerbates the problem by using up your thiamine, and without thiamine, oxidative metabolism can't happen so instead the sugar (and also the fat!) get packed on as fat and put into storage and you create lactic acid (inflammatory) instead of carbon dioxide (anti-inflammatory) as the end product of mitochondrial metabolic function. I packed on 25 pounds in about 6 weeks after taking the Bactrim by consuming about 2 quarts of 1% milk and a quart of orange juice daily because my metabolic function just stopped.

To paraphrase Ray Peat, if you are going to consume sugar you need to supplement with some thiamine. Somewhere he says taking something like 90mg/day is pretty safe. Of course, now I can't find the source for that other than my memory. But here is a collection of Ray Peat quotes about thiamine: Ray Peat On Vitamin B1 - Thiamine

For about 6 years, 90 mg of thiamine/2Xday worked pretty well for me prior to the Bactrim debacle. Now I'm high dosing thiamine hcl because I need it to function properly. I think I've managed to lose about 10 pounds in the past 9 months. Things are better.
 

Mr.Bollox

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Mar 16, 2021
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Carbs do not inhibit fat loss as claimed by the insulin hypothesis of obesity. But carbs will also not necessarily stimulate the metabolic rate to any appreciable rate. Fructose can restore dysfunctional diet-induced thermogenesis, which doesn't respond to glucose, but that is only about 10% of total daily energy expenditure.

Carbs are great for lowering stress and stress makes it very hard to lose that spare tire. On the other hand, the wrong carbs that make you go on blood sugar rollercoasters will also release cortisol and promote fat retention/regain.

So the whole goal is to eat foods that digest well and that satiate you well and that also give you a lot of energy. Lots of protein and starches can make a lot of sluggish, which is obviously not good. Milk and fruit make me feel light and energized, so that's what I do best on. Others feel light and great after a steak and some rice. So you'll have to see what works for you.
But at the end of the day, it comes down to foods that energize you. When you are energized you want to move around more. This is when you'll have the motivation to walk more and do more stuff that will burn more calories. If you force exercise to the point of excess fatigue, you'll move less the rest of the day, thus completely compensating for the energy burned during exercise.

So to answer your question, if you eat 200g protein, then I'd go for 300g minimum on carbs. But see how you feel on that amount of protein and what you crave. If you feel warm and energetic on that amount, keep eating it. If you don't do so well on that amount, and crave carbs instead, then switch out some protein for carbs.
hey mate do you know of any good angiotensin inhibitors ( besides thiamine, milk, pomegranate juice/extract, OJ) and what was your experience with using thiamine daily

regarding stress is that physical stress/cortisol which causes the spare tire look and fat gain.
I dont think steak and rice makes those people feel light, but it may make them feel good! which fruits/juices do you prefer, do you use any dried fruits, are you still doing lots of honey
 

Vins7

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Feb 23, 2020
Messages
612
I've been dealing with a thiamine functional blockage exacerbated by the antibiotic Bactrim I took summer of 2020. This made me very sick and also very aware of the symptoms of thiamine deficiency/blockage. After researching the issue, I've come to believe that my thiamine problem has been a problem for me for at least 60 years and is tied to my heavy metal toxin load (mercury amalgam fillings, aluminum, lead). It seems that heavy metals block thiamine function. The older you get, the more heavy metals your body has accumulated; they don't just "go away". Taking the Bactrim on top of the heavy metal toxins damn near killed me.

Anyhow, it is my understanding that sugar does NOT block thiamine function but it does require thiamine to utilize sugar for energy so if you are low in thiamine or suffer from a thiamine functional blockage, consuming sugar exacerbates the problem by using up your thiamine, and without thiamine, oxidative metabolism can't happen so instead the sugar (and also the fat!) get packed on as fat and put into storage and you create lactic acid (inflammatory) instead of carbon dioxide (anti-inflammatory) as the end product of mitochondrial metabolic function. I packed on 25 pounds in about 6 weeks after taking the Bactrim by consuming about 2 quarts of 1% milk and a quart of orange juice daily because my metabolic function just stopped.

To paraphrase Ray Peat, if you are going to consume sugar you need to supplement with some thiamine. Somewhere he says taking something like 90mg/day is pretty safe. Of course, now I can't find the source for that other than my memory. But here is a collection of Ray Peat quotes about thiamine: Ray Peat On Vitamin B1 - Thiamine

For about 6 years, 90 mg of thiamine/2Xday worked pretty well for me prior to the Bactrim debacle. Now I'm high dosing thiamine hcl because I need it to function properly. I think I've managed to lose about 10 pounds in the past 9 months. Things are better.
Thank you so much for sharing the info and your experience.

How much thiamine are you currently taking to fix the problem that caused the bactrim?
Do you know in cases like yours how long it usually takes to reverse your situation?
Did you have major intestinal problems?
I have taken antibiotics and would also like to know, is it something that generates bactrim or can it be generated by many other antibiotics?
 

Mr.Bollox

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To clarify, my question is how many carbs should I be eating? All of the information online suggests a low carb diet for fat loss but that contradicts everything this forum is about. Weighing 285 lbs, im thinking of eating about 200g protein. Should my carbs be around 350-400g?
if the carbs go too low you start converting protein to carbs, if protein intake is also too low, youll start breaking down muscles, skin, organs and glands and hair for carbs

how did you gain the weight, was it just from alcohol and pufa foods?
 

mostlylurking

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Thank you so much for sharing the info and your experience.

How much thiamine are you currently taking to fix the problem that caused the bactrim?
Do you know in cases like yours how long it usually takes to reverse your situation?
Did you have major intestinal problems?
I have taken antibiotics and would also like to know, is it something that generates bactrim or can it be generated by many other antibiotics?
Bactrim is the name of a specific antibiotic. However there are many antibiotics that block thiamine function. Here's an article about Bactrim: Bactrim: An Anti-Folate, Anti-Thiamine, Potassium Altering Drug - Hormones Matter Other pharmaceutical drugs also block thiamine, Metformin for example.

I take 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl. It has given me my life back. Here's a article about thiamine you might find of interest: Beyond Deficiency: Using Thiamine as a Metabolic Stimulant - Hormones Matter

I'm pretty sure that for me with my heavy metals load, high dose thiamine is a long term thing. If I could detox from the heavy metals I might be able to get off the high dose thiamine hcl maybe. I'm doing some research about it. Thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement and I'm doing well on it. I'm not worried about taking a high dose of thiamine hcl.

I did not tolerate TTFD thiamine, it gave me a headache. I've read that mercury toxicity uses up your glutathione. TTFD requires glutathione. If you are low on glutathione you tend to have difficulty tolerating TTFD. Thiamine hcl does not use glutathione and I've learned that it may actually improve glutathione status by improving metabolic function.

I did have a long history of major gut issues including SIBO and leaky gut and difficulty swallowing. All of these have resolved now since taking 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl. I follow Dr. Costantini's protocol. link: HDT Therapy There seems to be a link between a history of gut disbiosis and getting Parkinson's Disease. Both of these massively improve via high dose thiamine therapy. Dr. Costantini treated Parkinson's Disease patients with high dose thiamine with consistent success.
 

Vins7

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Messages
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Bactrim is the name of a specific antibiotic. However there are many antibiotics that block thiamine function. Here's an article about Bactrim: Bactrim: An Anti-Folate, Anti-Thiamine, Potassium Altering Drug - Hormones Matter Other pharmaceutical drugs also block thiamine, Metformin for example.

I take 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl. It has given me my life back. Here's a article about thiamine you might find of interest: Beyond Deficiency: Using Thiamine as a Metabolic Stimulant - Hormones Matter

I'm pretty sure that for me with my heavy metals load, high dose thiamine is a long term thing. If I could detox from the heavy metals I might be able to get off the high dose thiamine hcl maybe. I'm doing some research about it. Thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement and I'm doing well on it. I'm not worried about taking a high dose of thiamine hcl.

I did not tolerate TTFD thiamine, it gave me a headache. I've read that mercury toxicity uses up your glutathione. TTFD requires glutathione. If you are low on glutathione you tend to have difficulty tolerating TTFD. Thiamine hcl does not use glutathione and I've learned that it may actually improve glutathione status by improving metabolic function.

I did have a long history of major gut issues including SIBO and leaky gut and difficulty swallowing. All of these have resolved now since taking 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl. I follow Dr. Costantini's protocol. link: HDT Therapy There seems to be a link between a history of gut disbiosis and getting Parkinson's Disease. Both of these massively improve via high dose thiamine therapy. Dr. Costantini treated Parkinson's Disease patients with high dose thiamine with consistent success.
wow ... that's really inspiring.

I don't know what kind of antibiotics they gave me when I had appendicitis surgery, but I'm going to try it.

Recently I bought thiamine in 100mg tablets, I have seen that the recommended daily amount is 1 tablet a day, and it also expressly states "do not exceed this recommended daily dose" (100mg).
Isn't this amount ridiculous? You, for example, are taking 2g daily, as if I were taking 20 pills of my supplement.

I have read that there is no risk of thiamine overdose but I would like you who have tried it to confirm it.
What could I feel if I am overdosing?

How long did it take for you to reverse your digestive symptoms when you started taking these doses of thiamine?

Thanks in advance friend, my gut has me exhausted, I don't know what to do anymore.
 

mostlylurking

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Recently I bought thiamine in 100mg tablets, I have seen that the recommended daily amount is 1 tablet a day, and it also expressly states "do not exceed this recommended daily dose" (100mg).
Isn't this amount ridiculous? You, for example, are taking 2g daily, as if I were taking 20 pills of my supplement.
I'm using pure thiamine hcl powder from bulksupplements.com; it has no excipients which makes it safer that tablets. Tastes awful, I don't care. It works for me.

Yes that amount is ridiculous and warning not to exceed it is pretty sad.

Thiamine hcl requires a higher dose because of absorption issues. 2 grams of thiamine hcl daily for a week equals one 100mg injection of thiamine hcl a week, per Dr. Costantini's website: HDT Therapy

Smaller doses of TTFD thiamine are supposed to work but I couldn't tolerate it, probably because of a low glutathione problem. TTFD requires glutathione.
I have read that there is no risk of thiamine overdose but I would like you who have tried it to confirm it.
What could I feel if I am overdosing?
I experienced the effects of too high a dose of thiamine hcl when I increased from 2 grams/day to 2.5 grams/day. I tried that higher dose one day, was OK until I went to bed that night and experienced shooting electrical pains in my thighs. So I lowered my dose back to 2 grams/day. I am following Dr. Costantini's protocol.

It is important to educate yourself about thiamine as much as possible. I found these sources to be very helpful:
Dr. Costantini's site: HDT Therapy His FAQ's and his research articles (hidden under "blog posts") are informative. Watch the videos of his patients' improvement: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu Start with Bruno at the bottom.
HormonesMatter.com; this search: You searched for thiamine - Hormones Matter I find the thiamine articles very helpful; I rely on Ray Peat for other topics.
Elliot Overton's youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFqXidfUsI0vm73xsBMIQdQ Excellent information about thiamine.
How long did it take for you to reverse your digestive symptoms when you started taking these doses of thiamine?
I spent about 3 months slowly increasing my dose of thiamine hcl. Then, two days after starting the 2 gram dose, my digestive tract normalized (started working correctly). I experienced continued improvement for the following 6 months. Things are very good now.

Thiamine and magnesium heal the gut. Thiamine allows you to tolerate a higher dose of magnesium without any side effects. Thiamine normalizes the autonomic nervous system. It also lowers brain serotonin. It also helps with endotoxin. It also helps the immune system.
Thanks in advance friend, my gut has me exhausted, I don't know what to do anymore.
Hang in there. Watch your diet very carefully. Eat your carrot salad or cooked mushrooms. Increase your thiamine hcl over time; stair-step up. Be very conservative with sweet things. I never stopped drinking orange juice but I cut out refined sugar. I also stopped drinking coffee and tea. Alcohol is a big no-no. I drink a lot of 1% organic milk with hydrolyzed gelatin and a little maple syrup. It is important that you get enough protein. In other words, I follow Ray Peat's suggestions about diet, also about hormones and niacinamide and aspirin. I take a good b-complex daily.

Here's a video for you:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkKmiZkiEPI
 

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