Fat Staying On Certain Areas Of The Body, Regardless Of Dieting?

[Literally]

I just saw in a video last night (can find it if you want) that dietary lectins -- especially from plans -- can cause weight gain and retention in isocaloric studies.

 

[Waremu]

How to get 150 gram of protein?
Dairy isnt working 4 me... i get hemoroids and blood in stool from it, i bloat... whey can help, but some products dont, i also bloat and get blood and hemoroids from it...
Eating to much meat cant be that good... so how to get 150 gram of protein? Or more

If you're concerned about eating too much red meat, and cannot handle dairy well, then white fish like cod is your friend. Maybe a bit more expensive, but an option if money isn't as much an issue. If money is an issue, the lower types of cheaper lower PUFA white fish may work. Only downside is many white fish will be low in zinc, so you could eat one oyster alongside your white fish for zinc and copper. Oysters are pretty economic if you eat one with each fish meal, which is more than enough zinc. Zinc is just as important as protein for testosterone and muscle growth as well, etc. Bok choy/oranges/Greek yogurt can work well for calcium. White fish will help you keep PUFA low and the calcium to phosphorus ratio a bit more ideal compared to red meat as well.

I've been doing a low PUFA mostly milk diet for some time now and have decided to experiment with such a diet and drop out all dairy with the exception of Greek yogurt. Not because I have any issues with diary though, as I handle it fine, but just want to experiment. I will say though, I am a bit leaner so far, in my experiment. Cod is very low fat...basically pure protein, so it's a great food for people trying to lean out in general. I also agree that 150 grams of protein minimum seems to be a good baseline for people wanting to lean out and maintain or gain muscle. Most of my meals consist of 150 grams of cod, an oyster, organic apple sauce and/or orange juice concentrate, and gelatin or coffee mixed with gelatin, and a bit of Greek yogurt and salt capsules. Usually before bed it's Greek yogurt and some carb source like OJ concentrate. OJ concentrate is great to get enough magnesium, vitamin c, b vitamins, and folate without the high water content. Increased vitamin c, copper, and gelatin and zinc has really improved my skin as well (not that I had horrible skin to begin with). I also take 25-50 grams of organic free range, locally raised soy free chicken livers for vitamin A and biotin. They're way higher in biotin than egg yolks. Possibly one of the if not the highest biotin known food source. And you get way more biotin relative to PUFA than you do with eggs. So I don't have to eat eggs and keep PUFA low. The biotin from liver has really increased my hair quality as well, and it good for keeping the liver lean.

 

[YourUniverse]

If you're concerned about eating too much red meat, and cannot handle dairy well, then white fish like cod is your friend. Maybe a bit more expensive, but an option if money isn't as much an issue. If money is an issue, the lower types of cheaper lower PUFA white fish may work. Only downside is many white fish will be low in zinc, so you could eat one oyster alongside your white fish for zinc and copper. Oysters are pretty economic if you eat one with each fish meal, which is more than enough zinc. Zinc is just as important as protein for testosterone and muscle growth as well, etc. Bok choy/oranges/Greek yogurt can work well for calcium. White fish will help you keep PUFA low and the calcium to phosphorus ratio a bit more ideal compared to red meat as well.

I've been doing a low PUFA mostly milk diet for some time now and have decided to experiment with such a diet and drop out all dairy with the exception of Greek yogurt. Not because I have any issues with diary though, as I handle it fine, but just want to experiment. I will say though, I am a bit leaner so far, in my experiment. Cod is very low fat...basically pure protein, so it's a great food for people trying to lean out in general. I also agree that 150 grams of protein minimum seems to be a good baseline for people wanting to lean out and maintain or gain muscle. Most of my meals consist of 150 grams of cod, an oyster, organic apple sauce and/or orange juice concentrate, and gelatin or coffee mixed with gelatin, and a bit of Greek yogurt and salt capsules. Usually before bed it's Greek yogurt and some carb source like OJ concentrate. OJ concentrate is great to get enough magnesium, vitamin c, b vitamins, and folate without the high water content. Increased vitamin c, copper, and gelatin and zinc has really improved my skin as well (not that I had horrible skin to begin with). I also take 25-50 grams of organic free range, locally raised soy free chicken livers for vitamin A and biotin. They're way higher in biotin than egg yolks. Possibly one of the if not the highest biotin known food source. And you get way more biotin relative to PUFA than you do with eggs. So I don't have to eat eggs and keep PUFA low. The biotin from liver has really increased my hair quality as well, and it good for keeping the liver lean.

Orange juice concentrate really is amazing. Cheap & nutritious. If you handle milk, a diet can be so healthy and simple with OJ concentrate, skim milk, potatoes and/or rice, coffee, baking soda and gelatin. Niacinamide works well with this, too.

 

[redsun]

Intermittent fasting has been shown to preferentially burn away the bad fat (visceral&ectopic). So start looking for how long you can go without food without a stress response. When the bad fat is gone insulin sensitivity is on a new level, and at this point you can start to build lean mass without things immediately spilling over into ectopic and ultimately visceral "emergency" deposits.

If it was that simple he wouldnt right away start regaining fat as soon as he is done cutting. This is the case with many who yo yo in weight including myself. The key is to change the bodyweight set point. If you dont do that you will be miserable and weak constantly trying to keep weight down while your body fights back.

How to get 150 gram of protein?
Dairy isnt working 4 me... i get hemoroids and blood in stool from it, i bloat... whey can help, but some products dont, i also bloat and get blood and hemoroids from it...
Eating to much meat cant be that good... so how to get 150 gram of protein? Or more

Meat is only the real option then. There is probably no one that can stomach 120g from just whole eggs. Meat actually has more glycine then methionine then milk. If you are worried about phosphorus, you can always just take calcium supplements when you eat meat. Whole fish like canned sardines are great alternatives that provide all around nutrition and fish in general is a good option. It will be much easier to eat a mix of probably beef, lean chicken, fish, and eggs instead of relying on just one food for proteins though not too mention it varies the nutrition content of the diet. Beef only or chicken alone dont have as balanced nutrition as say beef and eggs and canned sardines...

 

[Ron J]

@redsun
What do you mean by "The key is to change the bodyweight set point."
Can you explain? It would be helpful for when I start increasing calories.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

Another thing I should add is about the specifics of fat in different areas.

Obviously I am not lean like a bodybuilder or such, so I can't pinch my body all over and feel just skin.

I do notice that when I pinch my chest area, it has lots of lumpy/fat mass, like if I was overweight. This is actually the whole basis of my post -- that I notice myself getting leaner overall, but areas like my chest have lots of what I'm guessing is old fat mass from time ago in my obesity phase.

I also notice this to a lesser degree, but also on areas like the low, low abdominal area and even the arms and legs to a small extent too.

I see my midsection getting more taut and overall looking slowly better, but still have a fatty/lumpy chest even with a flat stomach (no abs really yet) and the lower abs are in the same boat too.

Of course the usual advice I get from people on bodybuilding forums and etc. is to just keep cutting calories endlessly until I lose it and keep dropping weight constantly -- but I can't let myself turn in to a sickly, underweight skeletal figure just to lose fat from one or few areas of my body more.

I guess I just have it differently since I was obese/pretty heavy so I still hold on to some of that old fat/tissue/etc. that, say, your average guy would have never gained and doesn't have to worry about in the first place. Even at my leanest when I cut calories a lot, I still had the chest lumps and lower ab fat too while being like 13-14% bodyfat, which should ideally have been taut looking all over except maybe the lower abdomen I can understand.

 

[redsun]

@redsun
What do you mean by "The key is to change the bodyweight set point."
Can you explain? It would be helpful for when I start increasing calories.

The bodyweight set point is simply the bodyweight that you can maintain without effort. For example, some who are obese has a very high bodyweight set point, say.... 250lbs. It means in general if they were to change nothing and eat according to appetite they would stay at about 250lbs. And even if they were to overeat their weight still tends to float at 250lbs regardless. If they were simply to reduce calories and drop to 210lbs that way, there is not much stopping them from going back to 250lbs expect sheer force of will and discipline. This is why you have miracle stories of people getting super shredded and losing tons of weight because of newfound discipline and then within a year as they slouch in discipline with their workouts and their cardio sessions they creep back up to where they before and even gain even more weight then before because the chronically raised cortisol and estrogen and weak thyroid increases the bodyweight set point.

I can personally vouch for this. My bodyweight used to stay smack dab at 185lbs, regardless of what I eat as long as I ate to appetite. I was muscular and looked leaned with about 15% body fat. I wanted a six pack so I dieted down to 176lbs, looked dam good and felt good doing it. My weight crept right back up within weeks because of overwhelming hunger and then I ended up at 190lbs. I actually gained more strength and looked surprisingly better at 190lbs as my muscle mass great. Then I get injured and basically cant workout or walk for 3 months. End up at 200lbs. And as dumb as I am, I was sick of being that heavy not too mention I lost muscle as a result so I dieted down to 190lbs again. Looked worse of course as I just dieting and didnt work out. Worked out hard and weight crept back up to 198lbs but I gained muscle and started looking better. Then come the new year I was under tremendous amounts of chronic stress not too mention my leg was still not healed which compounded the stress even more. My weight went up to 215lbs and 215lbs became my new weight set point. No matter how I dieted I could not function mentally especially in college unless I was in the range of 215lbs and being that heavy on its own creating its own mental stress.

Trauma(injury), chronic stress, chronic dieting as well as poor diet, all do a very good job of changing the body's set point because they increase the aromatase and chronically elevate cortisol and plummet androgens and T3 levels. Building muscle mass can reduce the amount of body fat you hold because muscle will burn fat at rest and can reduce your natural set point. Increasing androgens either naturally or synthetically almost always results in loss of bodyweight especially fat and increased muscle.

I personally have had decent success with T3 helping keeping weight at a lower level as its an aromatase inhibitor and increases androgens and lowers serotonin. Probably high androgens and inhibiting estrogen probably play the biggest part in set point for men.

 

[rei]

If it was that simple he wouldnt right away start regaining fat as soon as he is done cutting. This is the case with many who yo yo in weight including myself. The key is to change the bodyweight set point. If you dont do that you will be miserable and weak constantly trying to keep weight down while your body fights back.

.

I described something completely different than yoyo or cutting. You eat as much as you desire, only when you eat changes. This keeps metabolic rate up and burns away the bad fats, which restores insulin sensitivity and thus the health does not start deteriorating again when calories are increased by more frequent eating+exercising.

 

[aquaman]

How to get 150 gram of protein?
Dairy isnt working 4 me... i get hemoroids and blood in stool from it, i bloat... whey can help, but some products dont, i also bloat and get blood and hemoroids from it...
Eating to much meat cant be that good... so how to get 150 gram of protein? Or more

3 meals of 40 grams of protein - eg 200g raw weight of white fish per meal.

Plus 30g of gelatin in a soup

If dairy doesn’t work, stay away from it

 

[aquaman]

If you're concerned about eating too much red meat, and cannot handle dairy well, then white fish like cod is your friend. Maybe a bit more expensive, but an option if money isn't as much an issue. If money is an issue, the lower types of cheaper lower PUFA white fish may work.

Frozen white fish is very affordable

 

[Dino D]

Thx :)

 

[Ron J]

@redsun
Thanks for replying.
Increasing my caloric requirements with more muscle mass is what I've been trying to accomplish. In a few months I'll try high calories again, but this time no empty calories from table sugar. I'd like to stay lean with enough food to satiate hunger. Perhaps it's due to chronic under-eating, but the protein quantity(from muscle meats, not powders) and carbs(not referring to concentrated carbs from juice concentrate/dried fruit) of what some claim to be a lot, isn't much. The other day I upped calories(last meal) to refeed for two days and consumed a lot of white rice and more fruits. On the second day, my stomach acid must have increased because that extra food digested too fast, so I'm not sure if my appetite will decrease.

 

[Ron J]

Another thing I should add is about the specifics of fat in different areas.

Obviously I am not lean like a bodybuilder or such, so I can't pinch my body all over and feel just skin.

I do notice that when I pinch my chest area, it has lots of lumpy/fat mass, like if I was overweight. This is actually the whole basis of my post -- that I notice myself getting leaner overall, but areas like my chest have lots of what I'm guessing is old fat mass from time ago in my obesity phase.

I also notice this to a lesser degree, but also on areas like the low, low abdominal area and even the arms and legs to a small extent too.

I see my midsection getting more taut and overall looking slowly better, but still have a fatty/lumpy chest even with a flat stomach (no abs really yet) and the lower abs are in the same boat too.

Of course the usual advice I get from people on bodybuilding forums and etc. is to just keep cutting calories endlessly until I lose it and keep dropping weight constantly -- but I can't let myself turn in to a sickly, underweight skeletal figure just to lose fat from one or few areas of my body more.

I guess I just have it differently since I was obese/pretty heavy so I still hold on to some of that old fat/tissue/etc. that, say, your average guy would have never gained and doesn't have to worry about in the first place. Even at my leanest when I cut calories a lot, I still had the chest lumps and lower ab fat too while being like 13-14% bodyfat, which should ideally have been taut looking all over except maybe the lower abdomen I can understand.

Increase muscle mass in those areas, or throughout your entire body and the next time you have the same body fat, you'll look better. The first time I lowered body fat, I didn't look as ripped. Take away my muscle maturity and I still look better than when I was less muscular.

 

[YourUniverse]

Re: protein - I like to multiply the protein content of fruit, potatoes and greens by 1.5 to reflect their keto acid content, and I dont think that's generous. A person getting 125g of protein daily, with their main calorie sources being fruit and potato, easily meets a 150g protein content equivalent IMO

 

[ebs]

I recommend chicken breast as your primary protein source followed by beef and eggs. It has almost no fat so you have to eat 500 grams to near or supercede Peat's guidelines of total pufa intake. But 300 grams a day split in two meals will cover most of the 80-100 grams of protein. This is what I did last year when I was losing weight on a Peatish diet. I aimed to lose 10 kilos in six months and it worked out perfectly. Somehow I've been able to quite easily sustain this new "set weight" even though I hardly pay attention to my total calorie intake anymore. I just eat instinctively now and so some days I eat less and some more. I believe glycine, taurine and creatine play an important role in maintaining my weight without effort. But I also still have some stubborn bodyfat to lose to become really lean and my body still has a skinny fat tendency (decent muscle mass but sensitive to water retention and fat deposits at lower back and chest).

 

[redsun]

I described something completely different than yoyo or cutting. You eat as much as you desire, only when you eat changes. This keeps metabolic rate up and burns away the bad fats, which restores insulin sensitivity and thus the health does not start deteriorating again when calories are increased by more frequent eating+exercising.

If it were the case that IF restores insulin sensitivity and gets rid of bad fats then I would have never stopped IF. I have read about so many who switch from IF to normal meals 3x a day. I dont think I have seen anyone not gain weight after doing IF for a long time and then attempting to transition, myself included. Many get scared at how easily weight piles back on and go back to IF. IF creates chronicly high cortisol levels as well as low T3. Unfortunately its not PUFAs that destroy the metabolism. Low calorie diets as well as OMAD type diets which imitate starvation all decrease metabolism because of their effects on cortisol.

I recommend chicken breast as your primary protein source followed by beef and eggs. It has almost no fat so you have to eat 500 grams to near or supercede Peat's guidelines of total pufa intake. But 300 grams a day split in two meals will cover most of the 80-100 grams of protein. This is what I did last year when I was losing weight on a Peatish diet. I aimed to lose 10 kilos in six months and it worked out perfectly. Somehow I've been able to quite easily sustain this new "set weight" even though I hardly pay attention to my total calorie intake anymore. I just eat instinctively now and so some days I eat less and some more. I believe glycine, taurine and creatine play an important role in maintaining my weight without effort. But I also still have some stubborn bodyfat to lose to become really lean and my body still has a skinny fat tendency (decent muscle mass but sensitive to water retention and fat deposits at lower back and chest).

I would attribute the effects of sufficient protein + glycine + taurine on liver function and increased GABA(and therefore anti-cortisol effects) to helping you sustain your weight so well. Also the DHT boosting effects of creatine. It seems to be the case a lean liver makes staying lean much easier.

 

[ebs]

If it were the case that IF restores insulin sensitivity and gets rid of bad fats then I would have never stopped IF. I have read about so many who switch from IF to normal meals 3x a day. I dont think I have seen anyone not gain weight after doing IF for a long time and then attempting to transition, myself included. Many get scared at how easily weight piles back on and go back to IF. IF creates chronicly high cortisol levels as well as low T3. Unfortunately its not PUFAs that destroy the metabolism. Low calorie diets as well as OMAD type diets which imitate starvation all decrease metabolism because of their effects on cortisol.


I would attribute the effects of sufficient protein + glycine + taurine on liver function and increased GABA(and therefore anti-cortisol effects) to helping you sustain your weight so well. Also the DHT boosting effects of creatine. It seems to be the case a lean liver makes staying lean much easier.

I really hope that's the case. And I was starting to feel amazing at times during that period between jan and august 2018. But I always had and still have some serotonin/estrogen/glutamate symptoms and behaviour, but whether that's really attributed to that remains to be seen since it's definitely a good thing that my body has been able to sustain itself. I stopped training when I (re) developed nasty shoulderblade pain for almost a year now but I haven't visibly lost any muscle mass. My weight is fluctuating (but stable) between 72-75 kilos but most of that is likely the water retention issue. My weight is currently back at 72, which besides being a set point also seems a bit a plateau. In 2015 I also lost the same amount of weight in two months with fasting and low carb but plateaued at 72 kilos as well. I was able to maintain that weight for 1.5 year until I had a setback due to another pain issue and I regained all the weight within a few months. But this time it hasn't affected my mentality and body, likely due to following some RP guidelines and this great forum.

 

[redsun]

I really hope that's the case. And I was starting to feel amazing at times during that period between jan and august 2018. But I always had and still have some serotonin/estrogen/glutamate symptoms and behaviour, but whether that's really attributed to that remains to be seen since it's definitely a good thing that my body has been able to sustain itself. I stopped training when I (re) developed nasty shoulderback pain for almost a year now but I haven't visibly lost any muscle mass. My weight is fluctuating (but stable) between 72-75 kilos but most of that is likely the water retention issue. My weight is currently back at 72, which besides being a set point also seems a bit a plateau. In 2015 I also lost the same amount of weight in two months with fasting and low carb but plateaued at 72 kilos as well. I was able to maintain that weight for 1.5 year until I had a setback due to another pain issue and I regained all the weight within a few months. But this time it hasn't affected my mentality and body, possibly thanks to following some RP guidelines and this great forum.

Its great to here stories of how one's mind and body operate before Peat and after Peat. The fact that even now with an injury you seem to be coping a lot better physically and mentally than before is a testament to these principles.

 

[Dino D]

If it were the case that IF restores insulin sensitivity and gets rid of bad fats then I would have never stopped IF. I have read about so many who switch from IF to normal meals 3x a day. I dont think I have seen anyone not gain weight after doing IF for a long time and then attempting to transition, myself included. Many get scared at how easily weight piles back on and go back to IF. IF creates chronicly high cortisol levels as well as low T3. Unfortunately its not PUFAs that destroy the metabolism. Low calorie diets as well as OMAD type diets which imitate starvation all decrease metabolism because of their effects on cortisol.


I would attribute the effects of sufficient protein + glycine + taurine on liver function and increased GABA(and therefore anti-cortisol effects) to helping you sustain your weight so well. Also the DHT boosting effects of creatine. It seems to be the case a lean liver makes staying lean much easier.

About IF... do you think that you and all those other people ate the same fooda and same calories while IF?
Or did you eat less calories, different foods, then stoping IF, starting to eat more frequent and MORE calories, and then gained weight?
If so... then its not the IF, its the calories and the food...
If not, and if you eat the sam calories and food and then get bad results from IF or from stopping IF (whitch is in fact not the same) then you have a valid point...
So? Is IF by its own bad? With everything else staying the same...

 

[rei]

If it were the case that IF restores insulin sensitivity and gets rid of bad fats then I would have never stopped IF. I have read about so many who switch from IF to normal meals 3x a day. I dont think I have seen anyone not gain weight after doing IF for a long time and then attempting to transition, myself included. Many get scared at how easily weight piles back on and go back to IF. IF creates chronicly high cortisol levels as well as low T3. Unfortunately its not PUFAs that destroy the metabolism. Low calorie diets as well as OMAD type diets which imitate starvation all decrease metabolism because of their effects on cortisol.

IF without stress reaction is like resistance training. IF with stress reaction is like endurance training. Does this peaty analogy help you understand the nuance i'm trying to communicate? Adaptive stress good. Maladaptive bad.

When you first start out your IF plan might be to reduce to 4 meals per day.