Increased sugar = fat loss or fat gain?

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Sugar can be fattening
Problem with sugar/carbs is that they don't have the b-vitamins to oxidize himzelf.
you need b vitamins with it for energy metabolism.
take with every 50-60 gr sugar 300mg thiamin and some caffeine with it to make sure sugar is oxidized and not stored as fat.
They have studies proving white sugar is not fattening. One in particular where two groups of rats were given the exact same diets, but the 2nd group got to "drink coke freely." Both groups weight stayed equal even though the 2nd group drank 7000 more calories in coke. Protein builds muscle and muscle burns fat. Sugar is just a support to the process. Ray Peat says starches and excess fats cause weight gain, and let's not forget estrogens and cortisol from stress. Bottom line is if your are not eating ample amounts of protein to have muscles then your body has to sustain itself on something besides skin and bones so it starts hoarding fat.
 
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julia

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Sugar can be fattening
Problem with sugar/carbs is that they don't have the b-vitamins to oxidize himzelf.
you need b vitamins with it for energy metabolism.
take with every 50-60 gr sugar 300mg thiamin and some caffeine with it to make sure sugar is oxidized and not stored as fat.
Great idea about the coffee!Thank you!
 

Hgreen56

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They have studies proving white sugar is not fattening. One in particular where two groups of rats were given the exact same diets, but the 2nd group got to "drink coke freely." Both groups weight stayed equal even though the 2nd group drank 7000 more calories in coke. Protein builds muscle and muscle burns fat. Sugar is just a support to the process. Ray Peat says starches and excess fats cause weight gain, and let's not forget estrogens and cortisol from stress. Bottom line is if your are not eating ample amounts of protein to have muscles then your body has to sustain itself on something besides skin and bones so it starts hoarding fat.
coke has caffeine in it, thats makes it less fattening and increase metabolic rate.

"Ray Peat says starches cause weight gain"
i don't really believe is that simple.
For axample: thousands of athletes world wide are eating tons of starches everyday.
Also chinese people, and they are very thin.

Here are also people that gain fat on high sugar diet, but others don't.
Its more complicated than that.
How sicker a person is, how more fattening food is for that person.
 
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First of all Ray Peat gives credit in the rat study that the coca bean is part of the equasion, but says it doesn't account for all of it. As far Chinese people being thin consuming starch, it's called "skinny fat", they have mo muscle, otherwise are called sump wrestlers. If you don't have muscles then you have to have something to keep skin and bones going. As far as athletes go and them eating a little starch they can afford to because their muscles eat the fat they would otherwise gain. Normal people that don't have large muscles gain fat with starches. Hgreent56 sugar and starch are both carbs that are used for energy, except your body has to slow down to convert the starch carb into su6gsr before using it. It is a slower feed of sugar/energy and good for people that are very active and can't eat small meals all day.
 
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I think where much of the Ray Peat debates come from is misunderstanding the goal. There are many ways lose weight effectively. The low carb, keto and paleo groups are all on the right track for burning off fat, even the Twinkie diet will do the trick, but what Ray Peat is addressing, by offering his science, is what kind of health and "good looks" are waiting at the end of each of those roads. He says starches cause problems and are not good period if we are wantingvty o slow down the aging process, but is one needs to satisfy a hunger, a craving or needs to get through that "breathless exercise" then he offers the best way to have them. He has NEVER suggested th ed m as bring good and says he doesn't personally eat starches, and not for a long time. He use to, but I think as you get older and digestion gets less efficient, he probably doesn't feel they are worth the problems they cause anymore.
 
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coke has caffeine in it, thats makes it less fattening and increase metabolic rate.

"Ray Peat says starches cause weight gain"
i don't really believe is that simple.
For axample: thousands of athletes world wide are eating tons of starches everyday.
Also chinese people, and they are very thin.

Here are also people that gain fat on high sugar diet, but others don't.
Its more complicated than that.
How sicker a person is, how more fattening food is for that person.
I posted something yesterday on this exact subject, and is texactly to your point Hgreen56 that "it must be more complicated than that" and you are right. It is all about how much muscle and how much fat you have. Sugar is not the problem.
 
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I was thinking about it the other day how funny it is that sugar and salt have been demonized, but it is the very first thing that they feed people through IV in the hospital. You hardly see anybody leaving the hospital fatter after a long stay.
 
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Here are some of a Ray Peat's words on why sugar is preferred to starch for metabolism and fat loss.
 

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Hgreen56

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"starch is the only one that contains no fructose"
when potato stored below 40°F in a refrigerator, their metabolism changes,
causing them to convert some of their starch to sugar
 
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julia

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Could you please help me to interpret this study.The authors state that sugar impacts the microbiome negatively, but when you read the document you see that it increases akkermanisa,which is a beneficial bacteria.What do you think about the effects of pure white sugar on the microbial diversity?
 
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"starch is the only one that contains no fructose"
when potato stored below 40°F in a refrigerator, their metabolism changes,
causing them to convert some of their starch to sugar
When I splurge on potatoes I only eat the reds, purple or Yukon gold potatoes. You can taste and feel the sugars!
 
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julia

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They have studies proving white sugar is not fattening. One in particular where two groups of rats were given the exact same diets, but the 2nd group got to "drink coke freely." Both groups weight stayed equal even though the 2nd group drank 7000 more calories in coke. Protein builds muscle and muscle burns fat. Sugar is just a support to the process. Ray Peat says starches and excess fats cause weight gain, and let's not forget estrogens and cortisol from stress. Bottom line is if your are not eating ample amounts of protein to have muscles then your body has to sustain itself on something besides skin and bones so it starts hoarding f
Do you have this study?
 
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Do you have this study?
Th
Do you have this study?
I need to start keeping track of my references cause it is rather time consuming looking through all of Ray Peat's articles and interviews to find stuff. So for lack of time today I just screenshot Haidut talking about it. Keep in mind julia when thinking about "sugar" that each one is not created equal and that they should be used differently: fructose, sucrose and glucose. For my weight loss I did not use honey, but I did use sugared fruit, sugar in my coffee and Mexican Coke ALL paired with a protein source. I personally would not consume 8000 calories of coke, but my 18 year old niece does and she is under a hundred pounds at 5'5 doing so. Now she has trouble puting on weight. When she lived with me and ate a varied diet with meat, potatoes and chips she was 145 pounds. She uses soda now to stay thin, which Ray Peat would not promote, because of it's lack of nutrition.
 

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julia

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Hi Julia, could you break down these findings in layman's terms? Are they concluding that non-fat milk increases or decreases fat loss? Ie - fat full milk is better for weight loss? Or the opposite?

Th
I need to start keeping track of my references cause it is rather time consuming looking through all of Ray Peat's articles and interviews to find stuff. So for lack of time today I just screenshot Haidut talking about it. Keep in mind julia when thinking about "sugar" that each one is not created equal and that they should be used differently: fructose, sucrose and glucose. For my weight loss I did not use honey, but I did use sugared fruit, sugar in my coffee and Mexican Coke ALL paired with a protein source. I personally would not consume 8000 calories of coke, but my 18 year old niece does and she is under a hundred pounds at 5'5 doing so. Now she has trouble puting on weight. When she lived with me and ate a varied diet with meat, potatoes and chips she was 145 pounds. She uses soda now to stay thin, which Ray Peat would not promote, because of it's lack of nutrition.
Thank you!
 

grumpyblob

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You will gain weight unless you get your free fatty acid levels down. You can do that with niacinamide and aspirin.

I lost weight easily when I increased sugar after I got my free fatty acid levels down. In fact, I had to learn to eat more.
What exactly did you do to do this ie how much niacinamide / aspirin a day? Just curious... obviously will vary person to person.
 

Nemo

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What exactly did you do to do this ie how much niacinamide / aspirin a day? Just curious... obviously will vary person to person.

1. Grumpyblob, first I used a Source Naturals time-released 1500 mg niacinamide pill. The effects lasted for about 7 hours, during which I constantly wanted OJ and sugared milk.

2. That did it. I followed up by using either 2-3 aspirin or 33 mg of niacinamide every three hours for the next 2 1/4 days. But by early on the 3rd day, I was feeling hyperthyroid from my established thyroid dose, so I knew the free fatty acid levels were down where they needed to be.

3. Now I use roughly 33 mg of niacinamde three times a day and two aspirin at bedtime for maintenance. I think using either #1 or #2 will do it for pretty much anybody.
 

grumpyblob

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1. Grumpyblob, first I used a Source Naturals time-released 1500 mg niacinamide pill. The effects lasted for about 7 hours, during which I constantly wanted OJ and sugared milk.

2. That did it. I followed up by using either 2-3 aspirin or 33 mg of niacinamide every three hours for the next 2 1/4 days. But by early on the 3rd day, I was feeling hyperthyroid from my established thyroid dose, so I knew the free fatty acid levels were down where they needed to be.

3. Now I use roughly 33 mg of niacinamde three times a day and two aspirin at bedtime for maintenance. I think using either #1 or #2 will do it for pretty much anybody.
Thanks for the details... fascinating. I take around 500mg of niacinamide in some OJ once a day and don't notice a thing...
 

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