Increased sugar = fat loss or fat gain?

[julia]

Hello everyone!
I have read a couple of great threads on sugar and it's muscle sparing effect such as this one:

Lose Fat Not Pounds & Seeing Is Believing (before & after pics)

"In one of the studies in which rats had been taught learned helplessness so they would drown in five or six minutes, just being able to see another rat escape would let the informed rat go for days without drowning. Just the recognition that someone else did it can make all the difference." Ray...

raypeatforum.com

Could you please share your own experiences with increasing sugar and what effect this had on your body fat?Did you get leaner or did you gain fat?
I personally gain fat unless I keep my sugar to 100g or less.What have been your experiences?

 

[Jennifer]

Could you please share your own experiences with increasing sugar and what effect this had on your body fat?Did you get leaner or did you gain fat?

My weight stayed the same but when I increased my carbs, I was replacing some of my protein and fat calories for it so I wasn’t taking in more calories than I was prior to increasing it. However, I leaned out when I replaced some of my carbs for shellfish and leaned out even more on a dairy-based diet—my caloric intake stayed the same, but my activity level decreased so I was quite surprised.

 

[julia]

My weight stayed the same but when I increased my carbs, I was replacing some of my protein and fat calories for it so I wasn’t taking in more calories than I was prior to increasing it. However, I leaned out when I replaced some of my carbs for shellfish and leaned out even more on a dairy-based diet—my caloric intake stayed the same, but my activity level decreased so I was quite surprised.

Thank you,Jennifer!
Could you please share what your diet was when you leaned out.Thank you very much!

 

[schultz]

It depends on other variables. Fat intake, total calories, amount of activity, metabolic rate.

 

[Jennifer]

Thank you,Jennifer!
Could you please share what your diet was when you leaned out.Thank you very much!

You’re welcome! :) When I leaned out with shellfish, my diet was mainly scallops, crab, clams, gelatinous seafood broth, eggs, fruit (mainly a variety of melons and grapes), raw honey, and coconut as my main source of fat. With the dairy-based diet, more than half of my calories came from goat dairy (milk—up to 3 L, gouda, fresh curds), and the rest from fruit and raw honey. I’m not sure why dairy has that effect on me, but I suspect it has to do with the balance of lactose and protein keeping my blood sugar stable and my stress hormones low, and the calcium, among other nutrients, supporting my thyroid.

 

[Peato Diet]

Hello everyone!
I have read a couple of great threads on sugar and it's muscle sparing effect such as this one:

Lose Fat Not Pounds & Seeing Is Believing (before & after pics)

"In one of the studies in which rats had been taught learned helplessness so they would drown in five or six minutes, just being able to see another rat escape would let the informed rat go for days without drowning. Just the recognition that someone else did it can make all the difference." Ray...

raypeatforum.com

Could you please share your own experiences with increasing sugar and what effect this had on your body fat?Did you get leaner or did you gain fat?
I personally gain fat unless I keep my sugar to 100g or less.What have been your experiences?

Weight gain / weight loss pretty much boils down to 'calories in vs calories out'. If you are eating more calories than your body needs then you will gain weight. If you eat less calories than your body needs you will lose weight. It doesn't really matter what the macro ratios are, its all about the total colories at the end of the day, however if you are doing lots of cardio then your body will naturally crave more carbs/sugars to replenish glycogen stores. If you are more sedentary then you might feel better with a higher fat content and lower sugars. Listen to the body. It knows what it wants and it will tell you via cravings. If you are attempting to gain muscle then you will want to make sure you are getting enough protein.

There are calculators which roughly works out daily calorie requirements for the average person. These are a good place to start:

https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/macronutcal.htm

You can use something like cronometer to formulate a diet based on your target total daily calories and macro ratios:

Cronometer: Eat smarter. Live better.

Track nutrition and count calories

cronometer.com

Rippedbody.com is a good place to get an overview of weight loss / weight gain principles (basically calories vs calories out). You can build your diet around what you learn from ray peat:

Rippedbody.com | No-Nonsense Nutrition and Training Guides

No supplement sales, no industry nonsense. Just great, free guides to transform your physique.

rippedbody.com

 

[OccamzRazer]

Could you please share your own experiences with increasing sugar and what effect this had on your body fat?Did you get leaner or did you gain fat?

Increased sugar makes me fatter & also makes my face bloated, so I increase (saturated) fat intake instead.

Currently at around 8% bodyfat eating just a little bit of sugar from raw milk, dried fruit and/or OJ each day.

 

[OccamzRazer]

It doesn't really matter what the macro ratios are,

For some people macros can matter a lot - even when other factors (calorie intake, food quality, etc) are equal.

Usually going no carb (keto) or no fat creates a mild metabolic inefficiency, for example.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Listen to the body. It knows what it wants and it will tell you via cravings.

This really is key! Seems like there are big disparities in optimal macros from one person to the next.

 

[julia]

This really is key! Seems like there are big disparities in optimal macros from one person to the next.

Absolutely agree!
Could you please share the diet you used for leaning out?Thank you very much!
P.S. Anecdotally I have noticed that women tend to do better on high carb diet while men get very lean on higher fat lower carbohydrate intake.

 

[Jennifer]

For some people macros can matter a lot - even when other factors (calorie intake, food quality, etc) are equal.

This, and in my experience, the type of food consumed and its effect on body composition. My body composition on a 2,500 calorie diet of fruit is much different than it is on a 2,500 calorie diet of meat or a 2,500 calorie diet of milk. I weighed the same on each diet but my clothes fit much looser on the milk diet—my waist alone is 2” smaller and more defined on milk than it is on fruit and I carry far more muscle in my legs on milk than fruit and even meat.

 

[Nemo]

Hello everyone!
I have read a couple of great threads on sugar and it's muscle sparing effect such as this one:

Lose Fat Not Pounds & Seeing Is Believing (before & after pics)

"In one of the studies in which rats had been taught learned helplessness so they would drown in five or six minutes, just being able to see another rat escape would let the informed rat go for days without drowning. Just the recognition that someone else did it can make all the difference." Ray...

raypeatforum.com

Could you please share your own experiences with increasing sugar and what effect this had on your body fat?Did you get leaner or did you gain fat?
I personally gain fat unless I keep my sugar to 100g or less.What have been your experiences?

You will gain weight unless you get your free fatty acid levels down. You can do that with niacinamide and aspirin.

I lost weight easily when I increased sugar after I got my free fatty acid levels down. In fact, I had to learn to eat more.

 

[Spartan300]

I've read here that Ray Peat has stated that adequate calcium is required for fat loss.

@Jennifer - could be the reason for your improved body composition on the dairy

 

[Jennifer]

I've read here that Ray Peat has stated that adequate calcium is required for fat loss.

@Jennifer - could be the reason for your improved body composition on the dairy

Yeah, the calcium could definitely be a contributing factor, though, I wonder if the source of calcium makes a difference because I made a concentrated nettle infusion that I took daily for calcium when I was on the fruitarian diet and I was getting roughly the same amount of calcium I get on a dairy-based diet. Perhaps some of the compounds in nettles prevent proper absorption of the calcium?

 

[julia]

Yeah, the calcium could definitely be a contributing factor, though, I wonder if the source of calcium makes a difference because I made a concentrated nettle infusion that I took daily for calcium when I was on the fruitarian diet and I was getting roughly the same amount of calcium I get on a dairy-based diet. Perhaps some of the compounds in nettles prevent proper absorption of the calcium?

Jennifer,do you eat low fat dairy?
I have found a study showing that there is a component in dairy fat that stimulates uncoupling and increases the metabolism:

Milk Fat Globule Membrane Reduces Weight Gain in Mice

A new study has found that mice who consume more milk fat globule membrane are less likely to gain weight than mice that do not.

milkgenomics.org

 

[OccamzRazer]

Could you please share the diet you used for leaning out?Thank you very much!
P.S. Anecdotally I have noticed that women tend to do better on high carb diet while men get very lean on higher fat lower carbohydrate intake.

Sure! Keep in mind I've always been pretty naturally thin...

...but a diet based around raw whole milk and beef has been the best for body comp by far. Maybe up to a gallon of whole milk and 2 pounds of beef (preferably oxtail) a day.

I add dried fruit and OJ to this base, depending on activity levels.

Staying starch-free has been the single best thing I've ever done for leanness (and mood and a bunch of other things).

Interesting gender disparity there. Never noticed that, but yeah the higher-fat approach does work for me!

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Jennifer,do you eat low fat dairy?
I have found a study showing that there is a component in dairy fat that stimulates uncoupling and increases the metabolism:

Milk Fat Globule Membrane Reduces Weight Gain in Mice

A new study has found that mice who consume more milk fat globule membrane are less likely to gain weight than mice that do not.

milkgenomics.org

Hi Julia, could you break down these findings in layman's terms? Are they concluding that non-fat milk increases or decreases fat loss? Ie - fat full milk is better for weight loss? Or the opposite?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thanks Julie for the "shout out" on my post! I wanted to add this Ray Peat statement to your post to make more sense of it all.

"Protein deficiency creates an inflammatory state, and since stress causes tissue proteins to be destroyed and converted into sugars and fats, it's common to underestimate the amount of protein needed. One of the functions of sucrose in the diet is to reduce the production of cortisol, and so to spare protein." Ray Peat

 

[Jennifer]

Jennifer,do you eat low fat dairy?
I have found a study showing that there is a component in dairy fat that stimulates uncoupling and increases the metabolism:

Milk Fat Globule Membrane Reduces Weight Gain in Mice

A new study has found that mice who consume more milk fat globule membrane are less likely to gain weight than mice that do not.

milkgenomics.org

Thank you for the link, Julia. I love the milk genomics’ site! I frequent it often. I have an ounce or two of full-fat cheese occasionally, but most of the dairy I consume is raw skimmed goat’s milk.

 

[Hgreen56]

Sugar can be fattening
Problem with sugar/carbs is that they don't have the b-vitamins to oxidize himzelf.
you need b vitamins with it for energy metabolism.
take with every 50-60 gr sugar 300mg thiamin and some caffeine with it to make sure sugar is oxidized and not stored as fat.