New Fat Loss Strategy- Don't Cut Calories, Fix The Gut, Liver, Metabolism, Hormones (Tanka's Log)

[tankasnowgod]

So as the new year has hit, I have a new strategy for fat loss. Been thinking about this over December, and I'm now putting it all into play.

First, before ANYONE chimes in with CICO, or the Laws of Thermodynamics, read this piece from Lyle McDonald, which I still think is excellent and very accurate- The Energy Balance Equation

One of the things that stands out..... water. You could be suffering from Edema and carrying around an extra 50 pounds. Even if you did everything in the equation perfectly, you could still carry around those 50 pounds of water weight if you didn't fix what's causing the Edema. However, if you DID correct the issue, you might lose that water weight in days or a couple weeks, even while increasing caloric intake.

If you doubt that, check out this- How To Lose 20–30 Pounds In 5 Days: The Extreme Weight Cutting and Rehydration Secrets of UFC…

Beyond that, the other big takeaway is that CI and CO are interdependent variables. So, going around slashing intake (by a little or lot, smartly or foolishly) may not get you the results you desire. I counted calories with a fitbit for a few years, and while I did have some success, I always had underlying issues. I've basically been in "Screw It" mode for the past six months, but now..... time for a new strategy that I really think will start to get at the underlying issues.

Here, I will point out that some people (like Billy Craig) increased their caloric intake (big time, in Billy's case), and lost or maintained weight. Also, consider the following plans and testimonials-

PROGRESS REPORT FASTEST FAT LOSS EVER THANKS TO RAYYY

My RESULTS-IN-6-MONTHS Plan

The Last Canary: The Eat as Much as Possible Diet

If anything, they seem to let hunger do the regulating, and maybe even eating beyond hunger. I would also like to reference this excellent article by Hans, which also helped me with my new strategy-

Hormones And Fat Loss

One more segue. Ever sprained your ankle? I have. One thing I know is that it can swell up pretty quick, and if not controlled, will swell up way past being able to fit into your normal shoes or socks. Well, if your GI tract or liver had a similar attack..... what would swell up? I'm thinking now that anyone that has more that a little bit of belly fat probably has issues with the GI tract and/or liver, and that those should be fixed before any sort of artificial calorie control. So, here's my plan.

1. Completely eliminate offending foods. This would include iron fortified grains (especially wheat), high PUFA oils, alcohol (especially beer) and high Tryptophan foods, which basically means anything with Whey protein. Specifically, liquid milk and ice cream (shed single tear). However, cheese, cottage cheese, and yogurt are still on the menu, as they are mostly casein protein, and have a LOT less tryptophan. Also, dairy seems to be really adulterated in modern times, so I am also staying away from anything with added gums or Vitamin A.

1A. But be sure to eat plenty, especially lots of protein, carbs, sugar, and saturated fat.

2. Clean the liver. Things like K2, aspirin, caffiene, inosine, succinic acid, and Vitamin E Succinate are tops on my list.

3. Heal the GI tract. This included making the gut barrier stronger, by eating enough calories and protein, and targeting some things that should help rebuild it, like Vitamin C, glycine, lysine, and proline. Also, keeping gut bacteria in check, through things like carrots, antibiotics, charcoal, and such. I have some Glutamine powder, and might use this for a limited time. I'm certainly wary of supplementing Glutamine long term.

4. Raise Metabolism. Through things like eating enough, inosine, thyroid, and upping the salt

5. Improve circulation. Inclined Bed Therapy and walking are really big for me.

6. Oppose and eliminate Serotonin and Endotoxin. Through the GI strategies, and vitamins B2, C, and D, and salt

7. Oppose Estrogen. Through Progesterone, B1, and B2.

8. Lower Cortisol (and other stress). Vitamin C and being less stressed out in general is the plan. Got a new massager for Christmas, so I will be using that quite a bit.

So, that's the big strategy. I'll be updating this periodically.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I've been looking at some "Wheat Belly" testimonials, as they seem like they would mimic the ideas I expressed in this thread. I think the iron shavings used in fortification are a MAJOR source of our dietary problems, probably even bigger than PUFA, or gluten itself. For those that are interested, Thomas Levy put it best in this presentation-



This woman claims to have lost 10 pounds and 7 inches of her belly (!!!) in 21 days by doing no wheat, fried foods, or dairy (jump to 6:00 if you want to hear here results-



And on the opposite end, this woman claims she got 2 inches of bloating after 30 days of no wheat-



As Dr. Levy stated in his presentation, fortified iron is a constant insult to the GI tract. Once thrashed from the raw metal, many other things (like gluten, PUFA, endotoxin and serotonin) probably become much bigger issues for the person, especially if the GI tract never gets an extended time to heal.

 

[cyclops]

I saw you mentioned inosine for two purposes. Are you planning on taking that daily? It what amount?

 

[tankasnowgod]

I saw you mentioned inosine for two purposes. Are you planning on taking that daily? It what amount?

Yep, I'm currently taking 500 mg a day. Some aspects are a work in progress, and a lot of these things overlap. Inosine seems to help the liver by generating more ATP, and this also makes it good for metabolism as well.

 

[Waremu]

This general diet outline is pretty much a strict Peat diet (if grains are not included). This is very similar to how I eat and what has given me the me the best results. A few things to add:

It appears coffee works better for fatty liver than pure caffeine. This has been my experience as well. Also, I remember that there was a study someone brought up a while ago, which should still be floating around here somewhere. The study showed that it is the compounds in coffee more so than caffeine that appears to be the most beneficial in reversing fatty liver. In the study they used caffeine and coffee and the pure caffeine wasn't very effective. So I would put more emphasis on coffee over pure caffeine. I use both every day.

I also find that I do best with no starches whatsoever. White rice in moderation is the only starch I can handle and if I eat starch for more than a few days in a way, I notice every single time that I get massive serotonin and adrenaline and GI/endotoxin issues and often heart burn/poor digestion. Fruit as my only carb source I find consistently is what works best for me, and I am leanest on it. I get very lean every time I just cut out starch and not eat too much fat. Just those two things without going crazy on watching my calories really helps me cut up. Also, can't beat all the b vitamins and magnesium I get from fruit. Salt I find is also essential for me. It also offsets liquids. As long as I add salt, liquids aren't an issue for me --- adding salt to my milk, fruit juice, etc.

Milk is very relative to every ones personal circumstance. It's not a one size fits all. I find that as metabolism heals, I handle milk better. I don't think the tryptophan in milk is as bad as it appears either because of the ratio of it to the other amino acids, and also, studies posted on this forum have shown that casien in milk helps with the higher tryptophan converting to serotonin. Whey protein is more of an issue than milk because it is far more concentrated and has the casien removed which is more protective against the tryptophan. I would also tell be to be cautious in relying on cottage cheese and cheeses in general over milk is that many of the vitamins are destroyed in the cheeses compared to milk, which are needed for higher metabolism and carb metabolism. I noticed when I focus on too many cheeses and refined sugar over fruits and milk, I get muscle twitches that are severe and other side effects because my increased metabolism requires more of the missing vitamins. I also prefer raw milk, as even in pasteurized milk the vitamin content is lessoned, like Vitamin B1. Raw milk is great if one is able obtain it and handle it well. I use A-2 dairy and goat milk. If one cannot handle A-2 milk still, raw milk kefir or yogurt or goat milk may work. I also focus on getting enough choline for liver health, mainly from milk and one egg every day.

I (and others as well) find that I handle protein better in the earlier and mid day, and at night I eat my lower protein higher fat meals, with the exception of gelatin. Ray has said high protein at night can favor higher stress hormone production because cortisol and adrenaline naturally rise at night. My last meal before bed is usually one light enough to not sit like a brick in my stomach. Usually it is gelatin and milk plus sugar or fruit juice and salt and little fat. My diet is still overall low fat with maybe one medium fat day per week or month for hormones, etc. But one thing about milk is some find that they handle it better with gelatin added, so people can try that as well to offset the tryptophan if the casien isn't enough to offset it. For some people who are really 'broken', they may be more sensitive in that regard. But I can't really handle meat or anything like that before bed. I notice that almost every time, meat or any high protein food aside from dairy and gelatin spikes my adrenaline and cortisol at night and ruins my sleep. Salt and plenty of carbs before bed is essential as well. I sleep like a baby every night I keep my diet in order. It's great.

I also shoot for a 3:1 carb to protein ratio per meal, which Peat also recommends. I eat every 3-4 hours. Carrot salad is essential for keeping estrogen and endotoxin down for me as well. Works really well if rest of diet is in place. I save my Vitamin A, D, and K2 supplements for highest fat meal, which is usually before bed. I try to get two servings of gelatin at least each day and at least 100 grams of protein per day.

Coffee, fruit, milk, and liver are my go to B vitamin sources. I try to keep PUFA as low as possible as well. 2 grams or less per day and I am really happy. I keep iron low as well, but do eat meat once or twice per week for some iron, since it is still essential.

As someone who has pretty much tried every macro type diet under the sun, even starch versions of Peat, I always find that nothing works better for me in how I feel and look than this type of diet outlined here, which is basically a clean and strict Peat diet.

I am also a big fan of daily walks for sunshine and circulation/blood flow. I also am a fan of stretching every day for blood flow/circulation.

 

[Regina]

So as the new year has hit, I have a new strategy for fat loss. Been thinking about this over December, and I'm now putting it all into play.

First, before ANYONE chimes in with CICO, or the Laws of Thermodynamics, read this piece from Lyle McDonald, which I still think is excellent and very accurate- The Energy Balance Equation

One of the things that stands out..... water. You could be suffering from Edema and carrying around an extra 50 pounds. Even if you did everything in the equation perfectly, you could still carry around those 50 pounds of water weight if you didn't fix what's causing the Edema. However, if you DID correct the issue, you might lose that water weight in days or a couple weeks, even while increasing caloric intake.

If you doubt that, check out this- How To Lose 20–30 Pounds In 5 Days: The Extreme Weight Cutting and Rehydration Secrets of UFC…

Beyond that, the other big takeaway is that CI and CO are interdependent variables. So, going around slashing intake (by a little or lot, smartly or foolishly) may not get you the results you desire. I counted calories with a fitbit for a few years, and while I did have some success, I always had underlying issues. I've basically been in "Screw It" mode for the past six months, but now..... time for a new strategy that I really think will start to get at the underlying issues.

Here, I will point out that some people (like Billy Craig) increased their caloric intake (big time, in Billy's case), and lost or maintained weight. Also, consider the following plans and testimonials-

PROGRESS REPORT FASTEST FAT LOSS EVER THANKS TO RAYYY

My RESULTS-IN-6-MONTHS Plan

The Last Canary: The Eat as Much as Possible Diet

If anything, they seem to let hunger do the regulating, and maybe even eating beyond hunger. I would also like to reference this excellent article by Hans, which also helped me with my new strategy-

Hormones And Fat Loss

One more segue. Ever sprained your ankle? I have. One thing I know is that it can swell up pretty quick, and if not controlled, will swell up way past being able to fit into your normal shoes or socks. Well, if your GI tract or liver had a similar attack..... what would swell up? I'm thinking now that anyone that has more that a little bit of belly fat probably has issues with the GI tract and/or liver, and that those should be fixed before any sort of artificial calorie control. So, here's my plan.

1. Completely eliminate offending foods. This would include iron fortified grains (especially wheat), high PUFA oils, alcohol (especially beer) and high Tryptophan foods, which basically means anything with Whey protein. Specifically, liquid milk and ice cream (shed single tear). However, cheese, cottage cheese, and yogurt are still on the menu, as they are mostly casein protein, and have a LOT less tryptophan. Also, dairy seems to be really adulterated in modern times, so I am also staying away from anything with added gums or Vitamin A.

1A. But be sure to eat plenty, especially lots of protein, carbs, sugar, and saturated fat.

2. Clean the liver. Things like K2, aspirin, caffiene, inosine, succinic acid, and Vitamin E Succinate are tops on my list.

3. Heal the GI tract. This included making the gut barrier stronger, by eating enough calories and protein, and targeting some things that should help rebuild it, like Vitamin C, glycine, lysine, and proline. Also, keeping gut bacteria in check, through things like carrots, antibiotics, charcoal, and such. I have some Glutamine powder, and might use this for a limited time. I'm certainly wary of supplementing Glutamine long term.

4. Raise Metabolism. Through things like eating enough, inosine, thyroid, and upping the salt

5. Improve circulation. Inclined Bed Therapy and walking are really big for me.

6. Oppose and eliminate Serotonin and Endotoxin. Through the GI strategies, and vitamins B2, C, and D, and salt

7. Oppose Estrogen. Through Progesterone, B1, and B2.

8. Lower Cortisol (and other stress). Vitamin C and being less stressed out in general is the plan. Got a new massager for Christmas, so I will be using that quite a bit.

So, that's the big strategy. I'll be updating this periodically.

sounds great Tanka

 

[tankasnowgod]

Milk is very relative to every ones personal circumstance. It's not a one size fits all. I find that as metabolism heals, I handle milk better. I don't think the tryptophan in milk is as bad as it appears either because of the ratio of it to the other amino acids, and also, studies posted on this forum have shown that casien in milk helps with the higher tryptophan converting to serotonin. Whey protein is more of an issue than milk because it is far more concentrated and has the casien removed which is more protective against the tryptophan. I would also tell be to be cautious in relying on cottage cheese and cheeses in general over milk is that many of the vitamins are destroyed in the cheeses compared to milk, which are needed for higher metabolism and carb metabolism. I noticed when I focus on too many cheeses and refined sugar over fruits and milk, I get muscle twitches that are severe and other side effects because my increased metabolism requires more of the missing vitamins. I also prefer raw milk, as even in pasteurized milk the vitamin content is lessoned, like Vitamin B1. Raw milk is great if one is able obtain it and handle it well. I use A-2 dairy and goat milk.

If you check out the wikipedia page for Tryptophan, and sort by Protein Percentage, you'll see it is higher than all the other foods listed, at 2.34% Tryptophan - Wikipedia

The next protein sources you'd be eating would be the cheeses and egg, and they are basically a full percentage point lower (1.47 for Parmesian, 1.33 for Egg, 1.29 for Cheddar). That is the ratio against all the other Amino Acids. Lysine seems to antagonize serotonin, and most of the other common protein sources you get on a Peat-ish diet are going to have far, far more lysine to tryptophan than milk does. You are correct about Casien, it's Amino Acid breakdown is great, except for the Glycine:Methonine ratio, which is awful. Funny, I have been adding gelatin to cottage cheese and yogurt for a few years now. Those two together have excellent AA ratios for an adult.

I'd agree that Whey protein is worse than milk, but that's mostly only an issue if you are using protein powders. I don't use those anymore (only gelatin). But I did use Whey protein powders for many years. Ugh..... that excess tryptophan probably wasn't doing me any favors.

Milk can absolutely be a great food. But many people on this forum (and everywhere else on the internet and real world) list all sorts of issues with milk (lactose, additives, A1/A2, and now, add tryptophan). It often does not include butter, cheese, and yogurt. It's halted and reversed weight loss in many, and many people find that by removing milk, all sorts of issues disappear.

 

[Christopher R.]

Good strategy! I think a lot of Peating is about restoring the metabolism of a teenager, where you can eat however much you want of the right foods and not gain any weight. Peat has said that adults might do better with cheese than liquid milk, so congratulations on experimenting and finding what works for you. Consuming lots of milk based on ideological orthodoxy and armchair philosophy seems to do more harm than good.

 

[cyclops]

My diet is still overall low fat with maybe one medium fat day per week or month for hormones, etc.

How many grams of fat do you eat on these low fat and medium fat days?

 

[Mauritio]

Peat said he lost 15 pounds ( I think) when starting to eat about 30g Coconut oil per day.

Also, are you taking thyroid?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Peat said he lost 15 pounds ( I think) when starting to eat about 30g Coconut oil per day.

Also, are you taking thyroid?

Yeah, I've been taking thyroid for years now. IBT and Red Light have reduced my needs for it, but I still use it at the moment. I suspect if I fix some of the bigger issues I'm working on, I might only need it sporadically (maybe a grain or two a week, or less).

 

[tankasnowgod]

So it's been about two weeks now. Nothing really to report in the weight loss or inches department, everything seems about the same. I do notice that I am sleeping better, feeling better, and tend to have more energy overall. All big positives, and pretty much expected. To some degree, they happen every "dry January" for me.

One thing to note..... I was taking 9 grams of Vitamin C, divided up into 3 gram doses over the day. Well, Tuesday, I seemed to get an impromptu "Vitamin C Flush." Honestly, it wasn't painful nor did it come with any cramping or anything, but the timing was not great (luckily, it didn't ruin my day, but still). Since then, I've lowered it to 3 grams a day, still divided doses.

I was wondering what might have caused it, and there were a couple things. I switched back from Grape Juice to Orange Juice last week. Also, I got a fair amount of gelatin and glycine in the days leading up (I cooked a lamb shank on Sunday, had leftovers monday, and in addition to my regular gelatin consumption, added a gram of glycine a day). But also, the morning of, I took 1 gram of inosine, where I had been taking 500mg before.

So, I think it was a combo of likely needing less C overall (probably from eating better, and not drinking, being home from travelling), getting more C and/or support compounds from Orange Juice (maybe the C content is underestimated in OJ), and what I now suspect really set it off...... more Uric Acid from that dose of inosine. I think Uric Acid fills in for Vitamin C for a lot of functions in humans (since we can't make Vitamin C), and vice versa. Haven't looked into this too much, but it does seem to make a lot of sense, especially since Vitamin C supplementation can help to lower high uric acid levels, and as has been pointed out several times on this forum, high uric acid, even to the point of having gout, can be protective against even more serious condition like MS. Also, it seems Urea and Vitamin C can both be useful for some actions, such as wound healing. This is something I might be digging into a little bit more.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Another two weeks. Again, nothing really in the weight loss department, at all. No changes in weight, or measurements.

Two weeks ago, I decided to drop all starch. Interesting that I have never really done that before. I tried to go zero fat once, and felt horrid, and it started to mess with my digestion after a week. I quickly abandoned it.

Well, going starch free has been...... really easy. After deciding to do it, no issues whatsoever. I do think my digestion has improved quite a bit. I think anyone who has any sort of digestive issues (minor, major, or clinically diagnosed) should probably give this no starch thing a try. I have added more vegetables to the menu, to help take the place of those starchy sides, and usually have a soda or orange juice for sugars. By the way, if you can find this Sangria Senorial stuff, it's fantastic. Non-alcholic, but flavored like sangria, uses real sugar too. Also been using more gelatin, too.

I also created this thread, which leads me to think I am focusing on the right things, despite not saying any physical changes yet- Gut Inflammation As The Driver Of Visceral Fat And Fatty Liver

Also, I just a few days ago dropped niacinamide as a supplement, not using aspirin either. I did it after reading about Haidut's success here- Weight Loss Strategies

Quoted here, as the font is really tiny in that thread (my emphasis bolded)-

"Aspirin and caffeine are additive in their effect on mitochondrial uncoupling. Hence the reason the (in)famous stack ECA had ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin in it. If you can handle the high dosages of caffeine combined with aspirin then by all means go for it. I think the effects of aspirin would depend on the dose. In smaller doses it likely blocks lipolysis and in higher doses it increases fat oxidation. All I know is that when I was taking 500mg a day and 500mg-1,000mg niacinamide a day (without caffeine) I was not losing weight but felt like gaining instead. But this could be due to me being hypothyroid at the time.
For people trying to lose weight, I'd still focus on caffeine and K2 until their liver function normalizes (as measured by both enzymes and tolerance to caffeine). If I had to reproduce my experiment, I'd still go the caffeine route and add niacinamide only after losing excess fat.

"I have not written on Peatarian.com as I find the site to be highly argumentative. I supposed there is some value in arguing about this, but my goal is not to argue - it is to find the truth for myself. I trust what read and experiment with more than anybody's argument, even Peat's. I will look at studies posted by other people but I find it very often that the person with a strong argument has some sort of vested interest to convince others that he/she is right. All studies I have seen say, and I have confirmed through my own blood tests, that lipogenesis from carbs is not a practical issue for most people. That seems to be true for me. However, carbs can and do become an issue for people with fatty livers. I have not answered for myself if it is best to just force through the fat burning period to get the liver lean and then refeed on proper carbs and moderate saturated fat, or if it is better to keep loading up on carbs (and block lipolysis) and hope the liver with get rid of the PUFA and excess fat through glucoronidation after several years like Peat suggests. Each method has its pros and cons and it will likely be a unique experience for each person. I think moderate fat burning is probably fine for most people. Even babies burn fat when they are born, but it is indeed saturated fat. I am not sure I agree fully with Peat that it takes 4 years to get rid of PUFA. The study on monkey I posted says all PUFA can be depleted with just 30 days of fat free meals. So, in the more realistic scenario of a person on this forum eating mostly saturated fat and some PUFA, it will probably take several months to a year but nowhere close to the 4 years Peat is quoting. If you have decent vitamin E stores, I don't see a need to block lipolysis completely by aspirin and niacinamide since the free fatty acids in the blood will get saturated and should pose less danger. There are tons of studies showing vitamin E fully prevents harmful lipid peroxidation due to exercise. Taurine has been shown to do the same.

"I have lost most of my extra weight I gained on Peat by stopping niacinamide and aspirin, avoiding PUFA whenever possible, keeping vitamin E levels close to the upper normal range in labs, keeping protein normal (80g-100g), and not really restricting sugar except making sure I consume no starch like bread, rice, potatoes, etc. It actually worked quite easily and it took about 3 months to drop the 30 extra pounds I had, and the only exercise I do is walk several miles a day at a slow pace and do pushups 3 times a week. Not exactly a hardcore exercise schedule."

I already do a fair amount of walking, so I think I will also try to add pushups, and also get back to doing a little foundation training. Also, Vitamin E Succinate is something I am using, and might be a perfect supplement for this- E to help keep FFA saturated, and the succinic acid can be helpful in keeping ATP levels up, and both of these should help the liver.

 

[Bertje]

F

 

[tankasnowgod]

F

Pressing "F" to pay respects?

 

[Waremu]

How many grams of fat do you eat on these low fat and medium fat days?

On my low fat days I averaged around 10-25 grams of fat. I actually am doing a more stick diet now for PUFA depletion so my PUFA is very very low. But I still am getting 10-20ish grams of fat from mostly hydrogenated coconut oil. So I am just keeping my mostly saturated fat around low to medium range on most days as I go further in my PUFA depletion expirment. (Been eating low PUFA for years but now am pushing much lower to really see how things go as I produce mead acid)

 

[Cirion]

1. Completely eliminate offending foods. This would include iron fortified grains (especially wheat), high PUFA oils, alcohol (especially beer) and high Tryptophan foods, which basically means anything with Whey protein. Specifically, liquid milk and ice cream (shed single tear). However, cheese, cottage cheese, and yogurt are still on the menu, as they are mostly casein protein, and have a LOT less tryptophan. Also, dairy seems to be really adulterated in modern times, so I am also staying away from anything with added gums or Vitamin A.

Looks great other than this little bit I personally disagree with. I think (my opinion) that PUFA is worse than tryptophan, especially since tryptophan can be easily enough cancelled out by gelatin and/or sugar anyway and can even be good, if it converts to niacin in the body. There is nothing good to be said about PUFA, conversely. So I can't see how cheese can be better than milk. Again, my opinion.

*edit* in case it wasn't obvious, I'm referring to low fat / skim milk VS. cheese.

 

[Bertje]

Pressing "F" to pay respects?

No to follow this topic wich im interested i

 

[Broken man]

I lost 30 kg during 3 months using coffee with inosine, magnesium and taurine and bananas as a staple. I did it even I didnt want but when I changed my job I got 10 kg back.

 

[Cirion]

I lost 30 kg during 3 months using coffee with inosine, magnesium and taurine and bananas as a staple. I did it even I didnt want but when I changed my job I got 10 kg back.

what was your dosage of each, and your starting and ending weight if you don't mind my asking? 30kg is a lot of weight loss in 3 months for sure