Ideal Vitamin B?

[June]

Can anyone let me know if this is a good active vitamin B complex? I know it’s been said that B5 can be agitating. But I can’t seem to find one without. I know B’s are better taken from liver but I am trying to avoid copper at the moment and also trying to heal my leaky gut, lack of stomach acid, and balance high prolactin + estrogen dominance. This is only for the meantime. Any other Active B complex suggestions? Is the Vitamin B thyroid complex from Forefront Health any good? It’s pricey though.

I noticed alot of alcohol free liquid based supplements use vegetable glycerin. Is it Peaty? Is it safe for estrogen dominance?

 

[mostlylurking]

Can anyone let me know if this is a good active vitamin B complex? I know it’s been said that B5 can be agitating. But I can’t seem to find one without. I know B’s are better taken from liver but I am trying to avoid copper at the moment and also trying to heal my leaky gut, lack of stomach acid, and balance high prolactin + estrogen dominance. This is only for the meantime. Any other Active B complex suggestions? Is the Vitamin B thyroid complex from Forefront Health any good? It’s pricey though.

I noticed alot of alcohol free liquid based supplements use vegetable glycerin. Is it Peaty? Is it safe for estrogen dominance?

View attachment 55872

I took this one for a while: B-Complex Plus - 120 Capsules Fewer excipients and lower on the b5.

 

[June]

I took this one for a while: B-Complex Plus - 120 Capsules Fewer excipients and lower on the b5.

Thanks! I actually did consider this one early into my search. But my issue is with the non-active version of B6. Why must they add it with the P5P?? I've seen this with other brands too. What's the logic behind this?

I just discovered the capsules use a different B1. Benfotiamine. Strange they didn't keep it consistent.

 

[mostlylurking]

But my issue is with the non-active version of B6. Why must they add it with the P5P?? I've seen this with other brands too. What's the logic behind this?

I avoid the P5P because Ray Peat didn't like it; he said that it is much easier to overdose on it. He recommended taking something like 10mg/day of plain old B6 instead. So I wound up getting a liquid B6 so I could take smaller doses.

I react badly to B5 so I don't take it. I resorted to just taking individual doses of the b vitamins instead of taking a b-complex. The reason why I stopped taking the b-complex by Pure Encapsulations was because my b-12 tested as way high after taking the b-complex with b-12 in it. Ray Peat said b-12 can be carcinogenic so I didn't think it was a great idea to take something that overloaded me with b-12.

I just discovered the capsules use a different B1. Benfotiamine. Strange they didn't keep it consistent

I take high dose thiamine hcl (2 grams/day). Larger doses of it are needed because it doesn't get absorbed through the gut wall very efficiently. Most b-complexes used to provide a low dose of thiamine hcl (100mg). I've noticed that most of the b-complexes today seem to be providing thiamine mononitrate now; it's really cheap and is known to cause renal damage (at what dose, I don't know). Benfotiamine is supposed to be absorbed better than thiamine hcl, but I've never taken it so I have no opinion about it.

Here's an article about the different types of thiamine:

Navigating Thiamine Supplements- Hormones Matter

Understanding the different forms of vitamin B1.

www.hormonesmatter.com

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks! I actually did consider this one early into my search. But my issue is with the non-active version of B6. Why must they add it with the P5P?? I've seen this with other brands too. What's the logic behind this?

I just discovered the capsules use a different B1. Benfotiamine. Strange they didn't keep it consistent.

View attachment 55882

If you go here: bioenergetic search and type in B6 or B5 or niacinamide or Inositol helpful information comes up. You can double click on the paragraph of interest to get the audio to play.

 

[UphillEndeavors]

This is the one I take, no B5:

Vitamin B Thyroid Complex

Finally! A Vitamin B Complex made specially for thyroid health. Restore these common B-Vitamin deficiencies for exceptional energy, mental clarity, and metabolism.

shop.forefronthealth.com

 

[fever257]

Can anyone let me know if this is a good active vitamin B complex? I know it’s been said that B5 can be agitating. But I can’t seem to find one without. I know B’s are better taken from liver but I am trying to avoid copper at the moment and also trying to heal my leaky gut, lack of stomach acid, and balance high prolactin + estrogen dominance. This is only for the meantime. Any other Active B complex suggestions? Is the Vitamin B thyroid complex from Forefront Health any good? It’s pricey though.

I noticed alot of alcohol free liquid based supplements use vegetable glycerin. Is it Peaty? Is it safe for estrogen dominance?

View attachment 55872

I’m just really concerned about the excipients.

Gums, citric acid, maltodextrin. Add in silica and it doesn’t get much worse than that.

Is this inflammation and irritation worth the b vitamins you’d be getting (some are not in their most bioavailable forms!)

I think this supplement is a good representation of why Ray and Danny generally recommended “real food nutrition”

 

[Parrot]

What is the issue with the active form of B6? (P5P) I have been supplementing a B Complex Tincture from Health Natura with P5P along with a B12 (Methylcobalamin lozenge) a few times a week. This is primarily due to testing + to MTHFR (C677T) and pyroluria.

 

[mostlylurking]

What is the issue with the active form of B6? (P5P) I have been supplementing a B Complex Tincture from Health Natura with P5P along with a B12 (Methylcobalamin lozenge) a few times a week. This is primarily due to testing + to MTHFR (C677T) and pyroluria.

Ray Peat said (somewhere) that it is a lot easier to overdose/take too much of p5p than it is to do the same with traditional b6.

 

[Funnywhensunny]

What is the issue with the active form of B6? (P5P) I have been supplementing a B Complex Tincture from Health Natura with P5P along with a B12 (Methylcobalamin lozenge) a few times a week. This is primarily due to testing + to MTHFR (C677T) and pyroluria.

Wondering if you have found the right product & balance of B-vites?

 

[mostlylurking]

What is the issue with the active form of B6? (P5P) I have been supplementing a B Complex Tincture from Health Natura with P5P along with a B12 (Methylcobalamin lozenge) a few times a week. This is primarily due to testing + to MTHFR (C677T) and pyroluria.

I'm trying to understand pyroluria via reading about it online. It's confusing. Can you provide your symptoms?

 

[TAG145]

Can anyone let me know if this is a good active vitamin B complex? I know it’s been said that B5 can be agitating. But I can’t seem to find one without. I know B’s are better taken from liver but I am trying to avoid copper at the moment and also trying to heal my leaky gut, lack of stomach acid, and balance high prolactin + estrogen dominance. This is only for the meantime. Any other Active B complex suggestions? Is the Vitamin B thyroid complex from Forefront Health any good? It’s pricey though.

I noticed alot of alcohol free liquid based supplements use vegetable glycerin. Is it Peaty? Is it safe for estrogen dominance?

I just ordered this one without B5.

Natural Factors, BioCoenzymated, Active B Complex, 60 Vegetarian Capsules

www.iherb.com

They proclaim that this supplement has b vitamins in their metabolically active forms. Just started it so I cannot comment on how it makes me feel.

 

[Parrot]

Ray Peat said (somewhere) that it is a lot easier to overdose/take too much of p5p than it is to do the same with traditional b6.

I did notice that the amount of P5P is comparatively low compared to B1/B2/B3

 

[Parrot]

Wondering if you have found the right product & balance of B-vites?

I am sticking with what I am using for now because the amount of P5P is comparatively low compared to B1/B2/B3

 

[Parrot]

I'm trying to understand pyroluria via reading about it online. It's confusing. Can you provide your symptoms?

I was tested for it a number of years ago (urine test) and my results came back quite high. (can't remember the exact number but would have it somewhere)

Conditions associated with pyroluria are:-

Acute Intermittent Porphyria	Criminal Behaviour
ADD/ADHD	Depression
Alcoholism	Down Syndrome
Allergies	Epilepsy
Asperger’s Syndrome	Learning Difficulties
Autism	Lung Cancer
Bi-Polar Disorder	Manic Depression

Symptoms (quiet vast!) are:-

Abdominal pain	Lack of hair on head, eyebrows and eyelashes areas
Abnormal body fat distribution	Lack of regular menstrual cycles
Acne	Loss of appetite
Allergies	Low libido
Amnesia spells	Low tolerance to stress
Anger – explosive	Migraines
Anxiety/anxious	Mood swings
Argumentative - likes to argue	Morning nausea
Cold hands and feet	Motion sickness
Constipation	Much higher capability in the evening than mornings
Creaking in joints	Nervous exhaustion
Delayed puberty	Nervousness
Delusions	Overwhelmed in stressful situations
Depression	Pale skin, poor tanning or burn easy in the sun
Difficulty remembering dreams	Panic attacks
	Paranoia
Dyslexia	Pessimism
Early greying of hair	Poor memory
Eczema	Low morning appetite/tendency to skip breakfast
Elevated eosinophil’s	Preference for spicy or heavily flavoured foods
Emotionally unstable	Prone to stitches when running now or as a child
Fatigue	Reading difficulties
Fibromyalgia	Seizures
Frequent colds, fevers, and chills	Sensitivity to bright light
Frequent ear infections as a child	Sensitivity to smells
Glandular Fever Hallucinations	Severe inner tension
Hyperactivity	Skin rashes
Hypersensitivity to noise	Significant growth after the age of 16
Hypo-pigmentation of the skin	Social withdrawal
Hypoglycaemia	Substance abuse
Inability to think clearly	Temper tantrums
Insomnia	Tendency towards iron deficient anaemia
Intolerance to alcohol	Tingling in the arms and legs
Intolerance to drugs	Tinnitus Tremors
Intolerance to some protein foods	Unusual smelling body odour
Joint pain	Unusual smelling breath
Knee pain	Warts

Apparently, sufferers of this condition produce too much of a by-product of haemoglobin synthesis called hydroxyhemopyrrolin-2-one (HPL) and hydroxy-2,3-Dimethylpyrrolidin-5-on, also known as Pyrroles.
HPL binds to or inhibits the nutrients; Zinc, Vitamin B6, Biotin and the Omega 6 Fat GLA from reaching their targets within the body. This effectively renders these nutrients unavailable for their many important physiological functions in the body such as co-factors for enzymes in metabolism. These essential nutrients when bound to HPL are removed from the bloodstream and excreted into the urine as Pyrroles.

 

[mostlylurking]

I was tested for it a number of years ago (urine test) and my results came back quite high. (can't remember the exact number but would have it somewhere)

Conditions associated with pyroluria are:-

Acute Intermittent Porphyria	Criminal Behaviour
ADD/ADHD	Depression
Alcoholism	Down Syndrome
Allergies	Epilepsy
Asperger’s Syndrome	Learning Difficulties
Autism	Lung Cancer
Bi-Polar Disorder	Manic Depression

Symptoms (quiet vast!) are:-

Abdominal pain	Lack of hair on head, eyebrows and eyelashes areas
Abnormal body fat distribution	Lack of regular menstrual cycles
Acne	Loss of appetite
Allergies	Low libido
Amnesia spells	Low tolerance to stress
Anger – explosive	Migraines
Anxiety/anxious	Mood swings
Argumentative - likes to argue	Morning nausea
Cold hands and feet	Motion sickness
Constipation	Much higher capability in the evening than mornings
Creaking in joints	Nervous exhaustion
Delayed puberty	Nervousness
Delusions	Overwhelmed in stressful situations
Depression	Pale skin, poor tanning or burn easy in the sun
Difficulty remembering dreams	Panic attacks
	Paranoia
Dyslexia	Pessimism
Early greying of hair	Poor memory
Eczema	Low morning appetite/tendency to skip breakfast
Elevated eosinophil’s	Preference for spicy or heavily flavoured foods
Emotionally unstable	Prone to stitches when running now or as a child
Fatigue	Reading difficulties
Fibromyalgia	Seizures
Frequent colds, fevers, and chills	Sensitivity to bright light
Frequent ear infections as a child	Sensitivity to smells
Glandular Fever Hallucinations	Severe inner tension
Hyperactivity	Skin rashes
Hypersensitivity to noise	Significant growth after the age of 16
Hypo-pigmentation of the skin	Social withdrawal
Hypoglycaemia	Substance abuse
Inability to think clearly	Temper tantrums
Insomnia	Tendency towards iron deficient anaemia
Intolerance to alcohol	Tingling in the arms and legs
Intolerance to drugs	Tinnitus Tremors
Intolerance to some protein foods	Unusual smelling body odour
Joint pain	Unusual smelling breath
Knee pain	Warts

Apparently, sufferers of this condition produce too much of a by-product of haemoglobin synthesis called hydroxyhemopyrrolin-2-one (HPL) and hydroxy-2,3-Dimethylpyrrolidin-5-on, also known as Pyrroles.
HPL binds to or inhibits the nutrients; Zinc, Vitamin B6, Biotin and the Omega 6 Fat GLA from reaching their targets within the body. This effectively renders these nutrients unavailable for their many important physiological functions in the body such as co-factors for enzymes in metabolism. These essential nutrients when bound to HPL are removed from the bloodstream and excreted into the urine as Pyrroles.

Before you accept the labeling that some doctor has bestowed upon you, you might want to research further.
read this one:

Pyroluria: Fact or Fiction? - PubMed

<span><b><i>Objective:</i></b> The term "Mauve factor" (pyrroluria) dates back to 1958 when Dr. Abram Hoffer defined the condition as elevated levels of pyrroles in the urine, currently called hydroxyhemepyrrolin-2-one (HPL). It was suggested that the raised pyrrole levels lead to depletions in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Conclusions: Elevated HPL is a clinically observed, but poorly researched biomarker with unclear associations with mental disorders. Based on current evidence, HPL testing is not recommended as a screening or treatment tool. Further research is required in the following areas: establishment of which specific clinical populations exhibit elevated HPL, validation of the chemistry and validity of testing, and controlled trials to establish efficacy of high-dose zinc and B6 as treatment of elevated pyrroles.

Discerning the Mauve Factor, Part 1 - PubMed

"Mauve Factor" was once mistaken for kryptopyrrole but is the hydroxylactam of hemopyrrole, hydroxyhemopyrrolin-2-one (HPL). Treatment with nutrients--particularly vitamin B6 and zinc--reduces urinary excretion of HPL and improves diverse neurobehavioral symptoms in subjects with elevated...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

""Mauve Factor" was once mistaken for kryptopyrrole but is the hydroxylactam of hemopyrrole, hydroxyhemopyrrolin-2-one (HPL). Treatment with nutrients--particularly vitamin B6 and zinc--reduces urinary excretion of HPL and improves diverse neurobehavioral symptoms in subjects with elevated urinary HPL. Heightened HPL excretion classically associates with emotional stress, which in turn is known to associate with oxidative stress. For this review, markers for nutritional status and for oxidative stress were examined in relationship to urinary HPL. In cohorts with mixed diagnoses, 24-hour urinary HPL correlated negatively with vitamin B6 activity and zinc concentration in red cells (P < .0001). Above-normal HPL excretion corresponded to subnormal vitamin B6 activity and subnormal zinc with remarkable consistency. HPL correlated inversely with plasma glutathione and red-cell catalase, and correlated directly with plasma nitric oxide (P < .0001). Thus, besides implying proportionate needs for vitamin B6 and zinc, HPL is a promising biomarker for oxidative stress. HPL is known to cause non-erythroid heme depression, which lowers zinc, increases nitric oxide, and increases oxidative stress. Administration of prednisone reportedly provoked HPL excretion in animals. Since adrenocorticoid (and catecholamine) stress hormones mediate intestinal permeability, urinary HPL examined in relationship to urinary indicans, presumptive marker for intestinal permeability. Urinary HPL associated with higher levels of indicans (P < .0001). Antibiotics reportedly reduce HPL in urine, suggesting an enterobic role in production. Potentially, gut is a reservoir for HPL or its precursor, and stress-related changes in intestinal permeability mediate systemic and urinary concentrations."
-end paste-

It seems to me that a lot of times researchers make assumptions and these are not always correct. I'm reminded of the fable of the blind men and the elephant.
"The parable of the blind men and an elephant is a story of a group of blind men who have never come across an elephant before and who learn and imagine what the elephant is like by touching it. Each blind man feels a different part of the elephant's body, but only one part, such as the side or the tusk. They then describe the elephant based on their limited experience and their descriptions of the elephant are different from each other. In some versions, they come to suspect that the other person is dishonest and they come to blows. The moral of the parable is that humans have a tendency to claim absolute truth based on their limited, subjective experience as they ignore other people's limited, subjective experiences which may be equally true."
-end paste-

I think that it would be helpful for you to focus on the concept that high HPL is an inflammatory marker that might point to gut issues. The problem here is that "gut issues" are also an inflammatory marker and may be an additional symptom and not the root cause of the problem. I see from the paste above that HPL is correlated with low glutathione. Heavy metal toxicity also depletes glutathione as do other inflammatory things.

suggested research: go here: PeatSearch: a Ray Peat-specific search engine - Toxinless and search for INFLAMMATION using the search cell that excludes the forum. Scroll down 5-6 of the results to find the results from raypeat.com. Read the resulting articles.

You will find multiple things that Ray Peat recommended repeatedly to help with inflammation. Inflammation is a sign that something is wrong. Many things cause inflammation.

more suggested research:
Link to search for sciencedirect.com and inflammation: sciencedirect.com inflammation at DuckDuckGo

I have lived with chronic inflammation for over 50 years. My own health journey has been strongly affected by heavy metal poisoning. This doesn't mean that you have that, but it's one of multiple possibilities. I follow most all of Ray Peat's recommendations regarding inflammation. I also have found major improvement/resolution to my inflammation via high dose thiamine hcl. Here's a link to a search for sciencedirect.com and thiamine and inflammation:

sciencedirect.com thiamine and inflammation at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[Apple]

@mostlylurking , what do you think of brewer's yeast as a source of thiamine ?

nutritional content per 2 heaped tablespoons (about 15 gr) in both types of yeast:

 

[mostlylurking]

@mostlylurking , what do you think of brewer's yeast as a source of thiamine ?

nutritional content per 2 heaped tablespoons (about 15 gr) in both types of yeast:
View attachment 56342

I really don't have an opinion on this, sorry. I did take a nutritional yeast for a while, and Ray Peat told the story of his father curing his diabetes via living on brewer's yeast (?) for several months. But for my own issues, I need high dose thiamine and I take thiamine hcl because I tolerate it very well.

 

[June]

I avoid the P5P because Ray Peat didn't like it; he said that it is much easier to overdose on it. He recommended taking something like 10mg/day of plain old B6 instead. So I wound up getting a liquid B6 so I could take smaller doses.

I react badly to B5 so I don't take it. I resorted to just taking individual doses of the b vitamins instead of taking a b-complex. The reason why I stopped taking the b-complex by Pure Encapsulations was because my b-12 tested as way high after taking the b-complex with b-12 in it. Ray Peat said b-12 can be carcinogenic so I didn't think it was a great idea to take something that overloaded me with b-12.

I take high dose thiamine hcl (2 grams/day). Larger doses of it are needed because it doesn't get absorbed through the gut wall very efficiently. Most b-complexes used to provide a low dose of thiamine hcl (100mg). I've noticed that most of the b-complexes today seem to be providing thiamine mononitrate now; it's really cheap and is known to cause renal damage (at what dose, I don't know). Benfotiamine is supposed to be absorbed better than thiamine hcl, but I've never taken it so I have no opinion about it.

Here's an article about the different types of thiamine:

Navigating Thiamine Supplements- Hormones Matter

Understanding the different forms of vitamin B1.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I meant to come back earlier to reply but I went down the vitamin B complex rabbit hole in search of the perfect one. There's conflicting information regarding B6. It's been said that B6, not active P5P, is more likely cause nerve damage. Not sure if there's truth to this.

This is the one I take, no B5:

Vitamin B Thyroid Complex

Finally! A Vitamin B Complex made specially for thyroid health. Restore these common B-Vitamin deficiencies for exceptional energy, mental clarity, and metabolism.

shop.forefronthealth.com

This was the one I was originally interested in, then found out they didn't carry an alcohol free version.

I just ordered this one without B5.

Natural Factors, BioCoenzymated, Active B Complex, 60 Vegetarian Capsules

www.iherb.com

They proclaim that this supplement has b vitamins in their metabolically active forms. Just started it so I cannot comment on how it makes me feel.

This is also one I saw early on, but the excipients killed that choice.

I’m just really concerned about the excipients.

Gums, citric acid, maltodextrin. Add in silica and it doesn’t get much worse than that.

Is this inflammation and irritation worth the b vitamins you’d be getting (some are not in their most bioavailable forms!)

I think this supplement is a good representation of why Ray and Danny generally recommended “real food nutrition”

I understand but this is only temporary. I completely overlooked the excipients and agree they are terrible! The runner up for one I may consider is this. I was worried about high B12 content and if I take only half a pill, I think I should be safe. I hope this one is slightly better than the one I posted above. Though I'm not sure what makes it slow release...

Another good one is Carotec Active B Complex but they do not ship to Canada. It may be an option for someone else here.

EDIT: Just realized it's the hypromellose agent that makes it slow release. If I want to avoid this then my only other option is the XYMOGEN B-Activ product.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EHMCUWI/?tag=rapef020-20

 

[mostlylurking]

I meant to come back earlier to reply but I went down the vitamin B complex rabbit hole in search of the perfect one. There's conflicting information regarding B6. It's been said that B6, not active P5P, is more likely cause nerve damage. Not sure if there's truth to this.

When in doubt, I pretty much always go with what Ray Peat advises. Go here: bioenergetic search , type in p5p and the audio comes up that I remembered. Double click on the paragraph to activate the audio.