Estrogen issues

[Saphire]

Hello,

I am a 50 yo women who has had one ovary taken out in 2003 & an oblation procedure 2005.

I have been dealing with estrogen dominance since 2019. I have tried many things with no relief. My Dr did a saliva test and said my progesterone was very low. At the time I had been taking Molecular Progesterone complex from Forefront health. This is similar to Progest-e. Suppose to be taken orally, rubbed in the gums. I wasn't taking this orally cause I didn't like the after taste, so I was applying it to my wrist. Later I was thinking maybe this is why it failed to work properly. Seeing how my testing came back low I thought the progesterone I was on was not working. So like a dummy I listened to the Dr and allowed her to prescribe me a compound progesterone cream. Literally after taking for several days my stomach bloated like I was three months pregnant, My lymph-nodes in my arm pits swelled and are hard (this is something I deal with regularly especially when I am estrogen dominant), my breast became enlarged and nipples tender to the touch. 3 wks in I was so miserable with symptoms I decided to switch back to my old progesterone complex. This caused a yeast infection, my nipples and breast became so sore I couldn't stand to wear a bra.

The cream was 21 mg which was normal dose I was taking with the Progesterone complex. So when I decided to switch and get off the prescribed stuff, I decided to up my dose to 50mg of my complex progesterone. I did decide to take this orally rubbing on my gums. I stayed on this for 3 more weeks and symptoms did not get any better. So I decided 3 days ago to stop the progesterone. I have noticed the last couple days breast tenderness is not as bad, I can actually wear a bra without my nipples hurting, although they are still tender and stomach bloating has gone down some. Lymph-nodes are still the same.

During this 6 wk process I have been taking Milk Thistle in the day, 2 pills & Estrodim 2 pills before bed. This did nothing!

I also would like to note. I did a stool sample a couple of months ago and they found excess estrogen in my sample. Which means I definitely am not detoxing estrogen properly.

I know progesterone is very important and I am not sure what direction to go right now. Very concerned that I have been in estrogen dominant state for so long. I have had no libido for some time either. I would appreciate any feedback on this are of concern.



Thanks!

 

[EustaceBagge]

Literally after taking for several days my stomach bloated like I was three months pregnant, My lymph-nodes in my arm pits swelled and are hard (this is something I deal with regularly especially when I am estrogen dominant), my breast became enlarged and nipples tender to the touch. 3 wks in I was so miserable with symptoms I decided to switch back to my old progesterone complex.

Your progesterone is causing the tissue-bound estrogen to be released.

During this 6 wk process I have been taking Milk Thistle in the day, 2 pills & Estrodim 2 pills before bed. This did nothing!

You should keep the process of detoxying estrogen simple, if you want liver support eat liver, make sure you have a high protein diet and adequate carbs to keep cortisol down, and some aspirin in the case of inflammation. If you think your metabolism is bad, make sure you get adequate b-vitamins and magnesium and try caffeine/thyroid.

I also would like to note. I did a stool sample a couple of months ago and they found excess estrogen in my sample. Which means I definitely am not detoxing estrogen properly.

How did you get to this conclusion? If in your stool you have excess estrogen it seems like your detoxifying it properly, but you do need to make sure your body is not producing the estrogen back again (progesterone) and you also need to make sure estrogen does not get reabsorbed in the gut due to a leaky gut. For this make sure you eat raw carrots for insoluble fiber, and maybe some collagen/gelatin to ensure healthy gut function.


If you want to detoxify estrogen, keep progesterone low initially so that you don't get overwhelmed by estrogen, and increase dose as health improves. And it would also be wise to learn why you suddenly started getting problems in 2019. Stress? Inflammation? Weight loss causing stored pufa's to be released? Covid lockdowns causing loneliness?

 

[actionhealthy]

Hello,

I am a 50 yo women who has had one ovary taken out in 2003 & an oblation procedure 2005.

I have been dealing with estrogen dominance since 2019. I have tried many things with no relief. My Dr did a saliva test and said my progesterone was very low. At the time I had been taking Molecular Progesterone complex from Forefront health. This is similar to Progest-e. Suppose to be taken orally, rubbed in the gums. I wasn't taking this orally cause I didn't like the after taste, so I was applying it to my wrist. Later I was thinking maybe this is why it failed to work properly. Seeing how my testing came back low I thought the progesterone I was on was not working. So like a dummy I listened to the Dr and allowed her to prescribe me a compound progesterone cream. Literally after taking for several days my stomach bloated like I was three months pregnant, My lymph-nodes in my arm pits swelled and are hard (this is something I deal with regularly especially when I am estrogen dominant), my breast became enlarged and nipples tender to the touch. 3 wks in I was so miserable with symptoms I decided to switch back to my old progesterone complex. This caused a yeast infection, my nipples and breast became so sore I couldn't stand to wear a bra.

The cream was 21 mg which was normal dose I was taking with the Progesterone complex. So when I decided to switch and get off the prescribed stuff, I decided to up my dose to 50mg of my complex progesterone. I did decide to take this orally rubbing on my gums. I stayed on this for 3 more weeks and symptoms did not get any better. So I decided 3 days ago to stop the progesterone. I have noticed the last couple days breast tenderness is not as bad, I can actually wear a bra without my nipples hurting, although they are still tender and stomach bloating has gone down some. Lymph-nodes are still the same.

During this 6 wk process I have been taking Milk Thistle in the day, 2 pills & Estrodim 2 pills before bed. This did nothing!

I also would like to note. I did a stool sample a couple of months ago and they found excess estrogen in my sample. Which means I definitely am not detoxing estrogen properly.

I know progesterone is very important and I am not sure what direction to go right now. Very concerned that I have been in estrogen dominant state for so long. I have had no libido for some time either. I would appreciate any feedback on this are of concern.



Thanks!

I’m 54 and post menopause. I also was estrogen dominant for several years and the only thing that helped me was DIM and Calcium D Glucarate. They support phase 1 and 2 detox.

 

[golder]

I’m 54 and post menopause. I also was estrogen dominant for several years and the only thing that helped me was DIM and Calcium D Glucarate. They support phase 1 and 2 detox.

Thanks for this. I wonder why Ray never mentioned DIM or Calcium D Glutarate given his orientation towards lowering estrogen?

 

[actionhealthy]

Thanks for this. I wonder why Ray never mentioned DIM or Calcium D Glutarate given his orientation towards lowering estrogen?

I really don’t know if it is Pete friendly but it works!!!

 

[golder]

I really don’t know if it is Pete friendly but it works!!!

Yeah totally believe you, there are many accounts online of it lowering estrogen. What symptoms alleviated for you?

 

[actionhealthy]

Yeah totally believe you, there are many accounts online of it lowering estrogen. What symptoms alleviated for you?

Breast size went back down, ovary pain went away, overall bloating and puffiness went a away, felt more energized.

 

[Saphire]

Your progesterone is causing the tissue-bound estrogen to be released.


You should keep the process of detoxying estrogen simple, if you want liver support eat liver, make sure you have a high protein diet and adequate carbs to keep cortisol down, and some aspirin in the case of inflammation. If you think your metabolism is bad, make sure you get adequate b-vitamins and magnesium and try caffeine/thyroid.


How did you get to this conclusion? If in your stool you have excess estrogen it seems like your detoxifying it properly, but you do need to make sure your body is not producing the estrogen back again (progesterone) and you also need to make sure estrogen does not get reabsorbed in the gut due to a leaky gut. For this make sure you eat raw carrots for insoluble fiber, and maybe some collagen/gelatin to ensure healthy gut function.


If you want to detoxify estrogen, keep progesterone low initially so that you don't get overwhelmed by estrogen, and increase dose as health improves. And it would also be wise to learn why you suddenly started getting problems in 2019. Stress? Inflammation? Weight loss causing stored pufa's to be released? Covid lockdowns causing loneliness?

Thank you for your reply. I do eat liver 4-6oz wkly. I have stopped coffee due to having severe adrenal fatigue. I try and eat the raw carrots daily but don’t always get this one in. I try and eat 100g daily of quality protein & 260g of carbs. I stay away from Pufa’s. Unfortunately aspirin increases estrogen for me.

I will keep at a low dose of progesterone to see how I do.

As far as why estrogen increased in 2019, the more I think about it it may have been earlier then that. However, I have had my share amount of stress. We really didn’t have a lockdown where I live for Covid. I treated everything as normal as I could.

All this was a good refresher to make me look at where I am at and what I may be to change. Thanks again.

 

[Saphire]

Thanks for this. I wonder why Ray never mentioned DIM or Calcium D Glutarate given his orientation towards lowering estrogen?

Hello, thanks for the reply. What dosage for DIM & CDG were you taking to help? Did you also use anything for progesterone during this time?

 

[EustaceBagge]

I stay away from Pufa’s. Unfortunately aspirin increases estrogen for me.

Aspirin increases progesterone = less tissue-bound estrogen, more estrogen in blood

All this was a good refresher to make me look at where I am at and what I may be to change. Thanks again.

No problem, I know dealing with issues like these is very difficult and wish you the best of luck!

 

[actionhealthy]

Hello, thanks for the reply. What dosage for DIM & CDG were you taking to help? Did you also use anything for progesterone during this time?

I didn’t take progesterone because when I tried it, I’d gain weight and felt lethargic. In the beginning I’d take it morning, noon and dinner time. Not sure of exact dosage but if I took too much I felt off ie disconnected.

 

[LizRey86]

Hello,

I am a 50 yo women who has had one ovary taken out in 2003 & an oblation procedure 2005.

I have been dealing with estrogen dominance since 2019. I have tried many things with no relief. My Dr did a saliva test and said my progesterone was very low. At the time I had been taking Molecular Progesterone complex from Forefront health. This is similar to Progest-e. Suppose to be taken orally, rubbed in the gums. I wasn't taking this orally cause I didn't like the after taste, so I was applying it to my wrist. Later I was thinking maybe this is why it failed to work properly. Seeing how my testing came back low I thought the progesterone I was on was not working. So like a dummy I listened to the Dr and allowed her to prescribe me a compound progesterone cream. Literally after taking for several days my stomach bloated like I was three months pregnant, My lymph-nodes in my arm pits swelled and are hard (this is something I deal with regularly especially when I am estrogen dominant), my breast became enlarged and nipples tender to the touch. 3 wks in I was so miserable with symptoms I decided to switch back to my old progesterone complex. This caused a yeast infection, my nipples and breast became so sore I couldn't stand to wear a bra.

The cream was 21 mg which was normal dose I was taking with the Progesterone complex. So when I decided to switch and get off the prescribed stuff, I decided to up my dose to 50mg of my complex progesterone. I did decide to take this orally rubbing on my gums. I stayed on this for 3 more weeks and symptoms did not get any better. So I decided 3 days ago to stop the progesterone. I have noticed the last couple days breast tenderness is not as bad, I can actually wear a bra without my nipples hurting, although they are still tender and stomach bloating has gone down some. Lymph-nodes are still the same.

During this 6 wk process I have been taking Milk Thistle in the day, 2 pills & Estrodim 2 pills before bed. This did nothing!

I also would like to note. I did a stool sample a couple of months ago and they found excess estrogen in my sample. Which means I definitely am not detoxing estrogen properly.

I know progesterone is very important and I am not sure what direction to go right now. Very concerned that I have been in estrogen dominant state for so long. I have had no libido for some time either. I would appreciate any feedback on this are of concern.



Thanks!

Hello that is so upsetting you are having such a bad reaction to the progesterone. I have the exact same problem with bio identical progesterone as you are having. Although Im an premenopausal 36 yo female. Same symptoms plus weight gain, I know Ray Peat didn’t believe progesterone supplements can turn into cortisol but they can and will go down the cortisol pathway when you’re body is chronically stressed. Basically your body is turning all that beautiful progesterone into cortisol and making you more estrogen dominant. EastWestHealing is a youtube channel and he briefly talks about how this works better than I can explain it.
What I did to alleviate these symptoms was eat healthy obviously, but specific supplements as well. Depending on what state you live in( im in SC) you can get CBD with delta 8 in it. Which is the legal form of THC, in 2 months most of my horrible pms like symptoms were gone. Im still working on sleep and weight but cannabis increases dopamine, which in turn reduces serotonin and will help your hormones balance back out.
Also pregnenalone is great for reducing cortisol, it literate makes your skin tighten up its incredible. I take 50 mg a day.
Idealabs- Haidut’s supplements company has also been life changing. I take the 6-keto progesterone for aromatase inhibition. (1 drop weekly) And pyrucet for blood sugar control (this literally improved my eyesight) there are tons of threads Haidut puts out that you can read up on this stuff.
And lastly Vitex- I take alot (1000mg/ day during luteal phase) but its always given me great results, with no side effects,increased my progesterone mildy but really helps with estrogen symptoms.

I don’t believe these things will help everyone but looking into these supplements could benefit you. I hope you find relief.

 

[Saphire]

Aspirin increases progesterone = less tissue-bound estrogen, more estrogen in blood

No problem, I know dealing with issues like these is very difficult and wish you the best of luck!

I know, several people have disagreed with me when I tell them taking aspirin increases my estrogen symptoms. Same as every time I take progesterone, my estrogen dominance symptoms increase.

 

[Saphire]

Hello that is so upsetting you are having such a bad reaction to the progesterone. I have the exact same problem with bio identical progesterone as you are having. Although Im an premenopausal 36 yo female. Same symptoms plus weight gain, I know Ray Peat didn’t believe progesterone supplements can turn into cortisol but they can and will go down the cortisol pathway when you’re body is chronically stressed. Basically your body is turning all that beautiful progesterone into cortisol and making you more estrogen dominant. EastWestHealing is a youtube channel and he briefly talks about how this works better than I can explain it.
What I did to alleviate these symptoms was eat healthy obviously, but specific supplements as well. Depending on what state you live in( im in SC) you can get CBD with delta 8 in it. Which is the legal form of THC, in 2 months most of my horrible pms like symptoms were gone. Im still working on sleep and weight but cannabis increases dopamine, which in turn reduces serotonin and will help your hormones balance back out.
Also pregnenalone is great for reducing cortisol, it literate makes your skin tighten up its incredible. I take 50 mg a day.
Idealabs- Haidut’s supplements company has also been life changing. I take the 6-keto progesterone for aromatase inhibition. (1 drop weekly) And pyrucet for blood sugar control (this literally improved my eyesight) there are tons of threads Haidut puts out that you can read up on this stuff.
And lastly Vitex- I take alot (1000mg/ day during luteal phase) but its always given me great results, with no side effects,increased my progesterone mildy but really helps with estrogen symptoms.

I don’t believe these things will help everyone but looking into these supplements could benefit you. I hope you find relief.

Thank you so much for your great information. Gives me some things to check into.

 

[actionhealthy]

I know, several people have disagreed with me when I tell them taking aspirin increases my estrogen symptoms. Same as every time I take progesterone, my estrogen dominance symptoms increase.

Same would happen when I tried taking aspirin and progesterone. Right now I’m taking testosterone only and doing well.

 

[LizRey86]

It’s unfortunate that we all get the alleged “impossible reactions” to progesterone but it is somewhat comforting knowing Im not alone. I appreciate y’all responding.

 

[LizRey86]

Thank you so much for your great information. Gives me some things to check into.

Hopefully atleast one thing can help you Saphire, be blessed.

 

[mostlylurking]

My Dr did a saliva test and said my progesterone was very low. At the time I had been taking Molecular Progesterone complex from Forefront health. This is similar to Progest-e. Suppose to be taken orally, rubbed in the gums. I wasn't taking this orally cause I didn't like the after taste, so I was applying it to my wrist. Later I was thinking maybe this is why it failed to work properly.

Yes, you're right. It needs to be rubbed into the gums or done vaginally. I mix some with a little coconut oil for vaginal application.

So like a dummy I listened to the Dr and allowed her to prescribe me a compound progesterone cream. Literally after taking for several days my stomach bloated like I was three months pregnant, My lymph-nodes in my arm pits swelled and are hard (this is something I deal with regularly especially when I am estrogen dominant), my breast became enlarged and nipples tender to the touch. 3 wks in I was so miserable with symptoms I decided to switch back to my old progesterone complex.

Compounded hormone creams are made with a soy base (which is estrogenic). The same thing happened to me.

I also would like to note. I did a stool sample a couple of months ago and they found excess estrogen in my sample. Which means I definitely am not detoxing estrogen properly.

If the estrogen is in the stool, the problem is probably that it is being reabsorbed through the intestinal wall because the transit time is too slow (constipation). Speeding up transit time with safer fiber (i.e. shredded carrot, cooked bamboo shoots, well cooked mushrooms) and probably some magnesium would improve the situation.

I know progesterone is very important and I am not sure what direction to go right now. Very concerned that I have been in estrogen dominant state for so long. I have had no libido for some time either. I would appreciate any feedback on this are of concern.

suggested listening:

• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 1
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 2
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 3

I got a tubal ligation when I was 28; estrogen dominance was the result. Ray Peat (and progesterone in vitamin E) saved my life when I was 65. I'm 73 now. I take around 40mg of progesterone/day. I apply half to the gums and half vaginally, after my shower around 1-2 hours before bedtime (one time per day). The estrogen dominance after menopause combined with the resulting vaginal atrophy made me a raging lunatic.

The medical industrial complex only offers additional estrogen for vaginal atrophy. The compounding pharmacies use estrogenic soy base for making hormone creams. My mistrust in physicians is huge.

 

[Saphire]

Yes, you're right. It needs to be rubbed into the gums or done vaginally. I mix some with a little coconut oil for vaginal application.

Compounded hormone creams are made with a soy base (which is estrogenic). The same thing happened to me.

If the estrogen is in the stool, the problem is probably that it is being reabsorbed through the intestinal wall because the transit time is too slow (constipation). Speeding up transit time with safer fiber (i.e. shredded carrot, cooked bamboo shoots, well cooked mushrooms) and probably some magnesium would improve the situation.

suggested listening:

• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 1
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 2
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 3

I got a tubal ligation when I was 28; estrogen dominance was the result. Ray Peat (and progesterone in vitamin E) saved my life when I was 65. I'm 73 now. I take around 40mg of progesterone/day. I apply half to the gums and half vaginally, after my shower around 1-2 hours before bedtime (one time per day). The estrogen dominance after menopause combined with the resulting vaginal atrophy made me a raging lunatic.

The medical industrial complex only offers additional estrogen for vaginal atrophy. The compounding pharmacies use estrogenic soy base for making hormone creams. My mistrust in physicians is huge.

Thank you! Your always a big help

 

[mostlylurking]

Thank you! Your always a big help

You're welcome. Glad to try to help.