Estrogen issues

[Saphire]

Yes, you're right. It needs to be rubbed into the gums or done vaginally. I mix some with a little coconut oil for vaginal application.

Compounded hormone creams are made with a soy base (which is estrogenic). The same thing happened to me.

If the estrogen is in the stool, the problem is probably that it is being reabsorbed through the intestinal wall because the transit time is too slow (constipation). Speeding up transit time with safer fiber (i.e. shredded carrot, cooked bamboo shoots, well cooked mushrooms) and probably some magnesium would improve the situation.

suggested listening:

• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 1
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 2
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 3

I got a tubal ligation when I was 28; estrogen dominance was the result. Ray Peat (and progesterone in vitamin E) saved my life when I was 65. I'm 73 now. I take around 40mg of progesterone/day. I apply half to the gums and half vaginally, after my shower around 1-2 hours before bedtime (one time per day). The estrogen dominance after menopause combined with the resulting vaginal atrophy made me a raging lunatic.

The medical industrial complex only offers additional estrogen for vaginal atrophy. The compounding pharmacies use estrogenic soy base for making hormone creams. My mistrust in physicians is huge.

What is the brand name of the vitamin E you are using? How much of it do you use!

 

[mostlylurking]

What is the brand name of the vitamin E you are using? How much of it do you use!

I'm using Unique E, high gamma, mixed tocopherols. The packaging seems to be a little different now; the one I have said in the package insert that a single pump delivered 200mg dose of E (from memory). At a 10% strength of progesterone, that would equal to 20 mg of progesterone in a single pump. However, I did the math regarding how long the bottle was supposed to last me at two pumps per day and the bottle seems to last longer than I anticipated so I may not be taking 40mg of progesterone/day; it may actually be more like 25-30mg/day. When the bottle gets low, it helps to warm it in a glass of hot tap water in order to get the last out of the bottle.

 

[Saphire]

Hello,

I am a 50 yo women who has had one ovary taken out in 2003 & an oblation procedure 2005.

I have been dealing with estrogen dominance since 2019. I have tried many things with no relief. My Dr did a saliva test and said my progesterone was very low. At the time I had been taking Molecular Progesterone complex from Forefront health. This is similar to Progest-e. Suppose to be taken orally, rubbed in the gums. I wasn't taking this orally cause I didn't like the after taste, so I was applying it to my wrist. Later I was thinking maybe this is why it failed to work properly. Seeing how my testing came back low I thought the progesterone I was on was not working. So like a dummy I listened to the Dr and allowed her to prescribe me a compound progesterone cream. Literally after taking for several days my stomach bloated like I was three months pregnant, My lymph-nodes in my arm pits swelled and are hard (this is something I deal with regularly especially when I am estrogen dominant), my breast became enlarged and nipples tender to the touch. 3 wks in I was so miserable with symptoms I decided to switch back to my old progesterone complex. This caused a yeast infection, my nipples and breast became so sore I couldn't stand to wear a bra.

The cream was 21 mg which was normal dose I was taking with the Progesterone complex. So when I decided to switch and get off the prescribed stuff, I decided to up my dose to 50mg of my complex progesterone. I did decide to take this orally rubbing on my gums. I stayed on this for 3 more weeks and symptoms did not get any better. So I decided 3 days ago to stop the progesterone. I have noticed the last couple days breast tenderness is not as bad, I can actually wear a bra without my nipples hurting, although they are still tender and stomach bloating has gone down some. Lymph-nodes are still the same.

During this 6 wk process I have been taking Milk Thistle in the day, 2 pills & Estrodim 2 pills before bed. This did nothing!

I also would like to note. I did a stool sample a couple of months ago and they found excess estrogen in my sample. Which means I definitely am not detoxing estrogen properly.
I know progesterone is very important and I am not sure what direction to go right now. Very concerned that I have been in estrogen dominant state for so long. I have had no libido for some time either. I would appreciate any feedback on this are of concern.



Thanks!

Update on the above with more issues:

Since my last post, Last week vagina has been rswelled for 7 days, vagina dry & hurtS. I found a post on here that mentioned taking 2-3mg of DHEA w/ 1/4tsp salt before bed to get swelling to go away. I tried this for 2 days and it shot my estrogen through the roof. My lymphnodes are swollen again.

I do eat liver once a week, carrot salads daily and nothing is taking my estrogen down. Allergic to mushrooms and bamboo is to nasty for taste for me. Haven’t been able to eat 100% peat due to sugar of any kind raising my estrogen and found out last year I am allergic to dairy. so neem trying Paleo. I am concerned about my lymphnodes all the time being clogged. Should I see a specialist? My doctor doesn’t seem concerned at all, however, they knot up and are painfull 95% of time, & especially when estrogen is high.

I have read before to start progesterone at 100 mg to stop the side effects. At this point I am so afraid to do anything because of being in constant Estrogen dominance. And it’s seems if a little will spike ED again. Any thoughts on this.

Just a cap on B supplements:
Niacinamide - 300mg/daily
NAC - 450mg/daily
Thiamine- 325mg/daily
Methyl B Complete

Thanks for listening and to all that have replied greatly appreciate this community. Just feel like since last year my body has been whacked! This going into menopause thing is for the birds!

 

[cs3000]

Update on the above with more issues:

Since my last post, Last week vagina has been rswelled for 7 days, vagina dry & hurtS. I found a post on here that mentioned taking 2-3mg of DHEA w/ 1/4tsp salt before bed to get swelling to go away. I tried this for 2 days and it shot my estrogen through the roof. My lymphnodes are swollen again.

I do eat liver once a week, carrot salads daily and nothing is taking my estrogen down. Allergic to mushrooms and bamboo is to nasty for taste for me. Haven’t been able to eat 100% peat due to sugar of any kind raising my estrogen and found out last year I am allergic to dairy. so neem trying Paleo. I am concerned about my lymphnodes all the time being clogged. Should I see a specialist? My doctor doesn’t seem concerned at all, however, they knot up and are painfull 95% of time, & especially when estrogen is high.

I have read before to start progesterone at 100 mg to stop the side effects. At this point I am so afraid to do anything because of being in constant Estrogen dominance. And it’s seems if a little will spike ED again. Any thoughts on this.

Just a cap on B supplements:
Niacinamide - 300mg/daily
NAC - 450mg/daily
Thiamine- 325mg/daily
Methyl B Complete

Thanks for listening and to all that have replied greatly appreciate this community. Just feel like since last year my body has been whacked! This going into menopause thing is for the birds!

hi, tried anything else since this post?

Something might be worth a try is Grape Seed Procyanidins Extract , the B type procyanidins in it are potent estrogen blockers (found in grape seed procyanidins extract).
if you can tolerate it without it causing too much gas

These in vitro and in vivo studies demonstrated that procyanidin B dimers in red wine and grape seeds could be used as chemopreventive agents against breast cancer by suppressing in situ estrogen biosynthesis.

all HPLC fractionated compounds inhibited aromatase in a dose-dependent manner (Fig. 1). The most effective inhibition curve was observed with HPLC peak 1. HPLC peak 1 is a procyanidin B dimer.

Serum from each mouse was also collected and analyzed for estradiol and estrone concentrations. Mice treated with increasing concentrations of wine extract showed a decreasing trend in the levels of estradiol and estrone compared with the control.
The results from uterine weight measurements and circulating estrogen levels support the hypothesis that in situ-produced estrogen plays a larger role in aromatase expressing and ER-positive breast tumor growth than circulating estrogen.

The most active procyanidin B dimer was found to inhibit aromatase with a Ki value of 6 μm, and the preparation of procyanidin B dimer mixture was found to be much more potent than any one of the individual procyanidin B dimers

should = ~40mg procyanidins daily needed

 

[Saphire]

hi, tried anything else since this post?

Something might be worth a try is Grape Seed Procyanidins Extract , the B type procyanidins in it are potent estrogen blockers (found in grape seed procyanidins extract).
if you can tolerate it without it causing too much gas



should = ~40mg procyanidins daily needed

I have a little bit of change. I put my self back on progesterone and started peating again, minus dairy for now. Has helped, but not a . Thank you for this information. I will be looking into this.

 

[Saphire]

The estrogen dominance after menopause combined with the resulting vaginal atrophy

I am dealing with this now. I have burning, soreness and swelling after sexDo you have any advice to help in this area? I greatly admire your wisdom you have shared with me in the past.

 

[mostlylurking]

I am dealing with this now. I have burning, soreness and swelling after sexDo you have any advice to help in this area? I greatly admire your wisdom you have shared with me in the past.

I found that applying an English pea size of progest-e type progesterone (it's dissolved in vitamin e), mixed with an equal amount of coconut oil, then inserted vaginally was helpful. It allowed me to successfully resist becoming a lunatic ax murderer. Vaginal atrophy is very painful. Just rolling over in bed was excruciating; forget about sex. All the over the counter and prescription remedies have estrogen in them, which is of itself, inflammatory. These products obviously were all designed by misogynistic men. The idea is that the inflammatory estrogen will "plump up your tissues". Yeah, right.

Ray Peat suggested using some vitamin A with maybe a little vitamin E and cocoa butter I think, maybe it was a radio show? I don't remember. Anyhow, when I found relief via the progesterone+coconut oil, I settled down and just stuck with that.

Go here: bioenergetic search, search for "vaginal" and the interviews come up.

 

[Saphire]

@mostlylurking thank you so much. I will check into this.

 

[mostlylurking]

@mostlylurking thank you so much. I will check into this.

You're welcome.

 

[Lejeboca]

I am dealing with this now. I have burning, soreness and swelling after sex.

I'd agree with @mostlylurking that progest-e+coconut oil in vagina would be a good lubricant. I use progest-e like that and do not feel dryness or soreness,
I would just make sure too take breaks in progesterone, at least a week, because the liver starts to getting used to P and becomes efficient in eliminating it, thereby diminishing effects unless the dose of progesterone is (constantly) increased.

Speaking of liver, making sure that it works efficiently, in general, and is not burned is a big thing in estrogen elimination. For this, I take burdock root daily. For me it works better than milk thistle, I take the latter only sporadically when I feel I need something extra, like after a fatty meal (fondue ) or feel heaviness in the liver area.

As to the burning sensations in vagina along with your lymph nodes tending to swell up too, perhaps calendula, as tincture (in ethanol) 3 drops 3 times daily, would help? It is good for both and is moisturizing. Try this for 1 or 2 weeks and see how the symptoms improve/change. Feel free to DM me not to take the thread off topic.

 

[Saphire]

I would just make sure too take breaks in progesterone, at least a week,

Unfortunately this doesn’t work for me. I have tried it in the past and estrogen becomes very angry. I don’t have a cycle due to oblation & one ovary removed. I actually tried taking a break off the progesterone this week I am on day four right now and unbelievable miserable. Legs are swelled and hurt, breast sore and lymphnodes are clogged. So I am going to restart again today with the prog.

Thanks for all this information as well as what has worked for you. I do appreciate your reply and will check into the supplements you suggested. ~Blessings!

 

[chrstn4o]

Hello,

I am a 50 yo women who has had one ovary taken out in 2003 & an oblation procedure 2005.

I have been dealing with estrogen dominance since 2019. I have tried many things with no relief. My Dr did a saliva test and said my progesterone was very low. At the time I had been taking Molecular Progesterone complex from Forefront health. This is similar to Progest-e. Suppose to be taken orally, rubbed in the gums. I wasn't taking this orally cause I didn't like the after taste, so I was applying it to my wrist. Later I was thinking maybe this is why it failed to work properly. Seeing how my testing came back low I thought the progesterone I was on was not working. So like a dummy I listened to the Dr and allowed her to prescribe me a compound progesterone cream. Literally after taking for several days my stomach bloated like I was three months pregnant, My lymph-nodes in my arm pits swelled and are hard (this is something I deal with regularly especially when I am estrogen dominant), my breast became enlarged and nipples tender to the touch. 3 wks in I was so miserable with symptoms I decided to switch back to my old progesterone complex. This caused a yeast infection, my nipples and breast became so sore I couldn't stand to wear a bra.

The cream was 21 mg which was normal dose I was taking with the Progesterone complex. So when I decided to switch and get off the prescribed stuff, I decided to up my dose to 50mg of my complex progesterone. I did decide to take this orally rubbing on my gums. I stayed on this for 3 more weeks and symptoms did not get any better. So I decided 3 days ago to stop the progesterone. I have noticed the last couple days breast tenderness is not as bad, I can actually wear a bra without my nipples hurting, although they are still tender and stomach bloating has gone down some. Lymph-nodes are still the same.

During this 6 wk process I have been taking Milk Thistle in the day, 2 pills & Estrodim 2 pills before bed. This did nothing!

I also would like to note. I did a stool sample a couple of months ago and they found excess estrogen in my sample. Which means I definitely am not detoxing estrogen properly.

I know progesterone is very important and I am not sure what direction to go right now. Very concerned that I have been in estrogen dominant state for so long. I have had no libido for some time either. I would appreciate any feedback on this are of concern.



Thanks!

I work mostly with women and I recommend to all of them to do a number of liver flushes. Really helps decongest the liver so you can detox the hormones and everything else more efficiently. One client had to stop all her hormones after the first cleanse because they were suddenly too strong for her. She felt totally fine after stopping them, indicating how powerful such a seemingly simple procedure can be.

 

[Saphire]

I work mostly with women and I recommend to all of them to do a number of liver flushes

What do you recommend? Can you tell me how to go about doing this?

 

[kimbriel]

I know, several people have disagreed with me when I tell them taking aspirin increases my estrogen symptoms. Same as every time I take progesterone, my estrogen dominance symptoms increase.

This is actually quite common - it's called "estrogen kickback".

 

[L_C]

Have you tried vitex or Calcium D-Glucarate? Too bad LadyRae is no longer on the forum. She was quite knowledgeable about this subject.

 

[Saphire]

Have you tried vitex or Calcium D-Glucarate? Too bad LadyRae is no longer on the forum. She was quite knowledgeable about this subject.

I have not tried vitex. Where is this purchased? I take CDG at night before bed w/DIM, I notice a difference as I wake, but as day starts to progress I feel like I am back to same issues.

 

[L_C]

I have not tried vitex. Where is this purchased? I take CDG at night before bed w/DIM, I notice a difference as I wake, but as day starts to progress I feel like I am back to same issues.

You can get vitex online from about any online store. Unsure what brand is the best.

 

[chrstn4o]

What do you recommend? Can you tell me how to go about doing this?

My way of doing it is based on Andreas Moritz's method without the plant-based dogma and a few other improvements. Have a short course on it on my website, but you can also get his book and I'm sure the methodology is on the internet.

 

[kimbriel]

My way of doing it is based on Andreas Moritz's method without the plant-based dogma and a few other improvements. Have a short course on it on my website, but you can also get his book and I'm sure the methodology is on the internet.

That's so interesting cuz I just attempted to do Andreas Moritz's liver flush last night but it didn't work. I'm bummed and going back to do a colonic tonight.

I too ignore his plant-based and anti-protein dogma.

 

[chrstn4o]

That's so interesting cuz I just attempted to do Andreas Moritz's liver flush last night but it didn't work. I'm bummed and going back to do a colonic tonight.

I too ignore his plant-based and anti-protein dogma.

What do you mean it didn't work? I did bunch his way a few years ago and it was working fine... Are you taking malic acid to soften the stones?