Any experience with Natpro Progesterone?

[Rtm320]

Hi all,
37 y/o female here, 5'7
I've found a couple posts mentioning the use of Natpro but was wondering if anyone could give me an updated experience on it?
I am suffering from recurring fibroids/polyps, mid cycle spotting. Had a D&C last year but the spotting came back and so did the fibroids and polyp. Doctors are so unhelpful--'they aren't currently worried, refused to do bloodwork and recommended the hormonal mirena iud as a treatment' Getting off birth control 10 years ago is what ultimately led me to Ray Peat. I went through a terrible cascade of issues hairloss, acne, anxiety, the list goes on. Needless to say I will NEVER go back on birth control again.

I suspect estrogen dominance, I also suspect hypothyroidism and have experimented with Tyromax in the past but ultimately didn't feel like it did much for me and got off it last year. I do my best to eat Peat--eggs everyday, coffee, honey, juice, fruit (although not consistently enough) greek yogurt, varying protein, collagen, potatoes, trying to be better about the carrot salad bc I know it could really help me here if Estrogen is the problem. I am also taking the below supplements..
-shilajit resin
-health natura b complex
-health natural vitamin k
-650 mg aspirin daily, sometimes more

I've put on 30 lbs in the past 3 years (I was pretty underweight for a while but used to be somewhere around 120 most of my adult life) Feeling rather defeated. I found www.progesteronetherapy.com --a lot of the info on there really resonates. They recommend I use 200mg of the cream, split, daily throughout my entire cycle for a few months to make progesterone dominant and then once symptoms resolve go back to cycling the cream only using in my luteal phase. I realize this sounds high considering what Ray suggests but they posit that women often under-dose which stimulates the estrogen receptors and makes estrogen dominance worse. I will say that even at the 100mg dose I don't really feel any effect, even with other progesterone oils, not sure what that could mean.

I'm really scared of additional weight gain and hair loss but am at a loss and am ready to experiment again.
Any help or insight would be much appreciated, thanks so much.

 

[mostlylurking]

Hi all,
37 y/o female here, 5'7
I've found a couple posts mentioning the use of Natpro but was wondering if anyone could give me an updated experience on it?
I am suffering from recurring fibroids/polyps, mid cycle spotting. Had a D&C last year but the spotting came back and so did the fibroids and polyp. Doctors are so unhelpful--'they aren't currently worried, refused to do bloodwork and recommended the hormonal mirena iud as a treatment' Getting off birth control 10 years ago is what ultimately led me to Ray Peat. I went through a terrible cascade of issues hairloss, acne, anxiety, the list goes on. Needless to say I will NEVER go back on birth control again.

I suspect estrogen dominance, I also suspect hypothyroidism and have experimented with Tyromax in the past but ultimately didn't feel like it did much for me and got off it last year. I do my best to eat Peat--eggs everyday, coffee, honey, juice, fruit (although not consistently enough) greek yogurt, varying protein, collagen, potatoes, trying to be better about the carrot salad bc I know it could really help me here if Estrogen is the problem. I am also taking the below supplements..
-shilajit resin
-health natura b complex
-health natural vitamin k
-650 mg aspirin daily, sometimes more

I've put on 30 lbs in the past 3 years (I was pretty underweight for a while but used to be somewhere around 120 most of my adult life) Feeling rather defeated. I found www.progesteronetherapy.com --a lot of the info on there really resonates. They recommend I use 200mg of the cream, split, daily throughout my entire cycle for a few months to make progesterone dominant and then once symptoms resolve go back to cycling the cream only using in my luteal phase. I realize this sounds high considering what Ray suggests but they posit that women often under-dose which stimulates the estrogen receptors and makes estrogen dominance worse. I will say that even at the 100mg dose I don't really feel any effect, even with other progesterone oils, not sure what that could mean.

I'm really scared of additional weight gain and hair loss but am at a loss and am ready to experiment again.
Any help or insight would be much appreciated, thanks so much.

So sorry for your trouble! I lived through about 37 years of strong estrogen dominance which was very debilitating. I was able to regain my quality of life via prescription natural desiccated thyroid (Acella brand) and progesterone and pregnenolone.

The article at the link you posted lost me at this: "your body then makes a cascade of other hormones that it needs from the progesterone (these include the estrogens and testosterone amongst others)"

also this gem: "estradiol tells your body its female"

Estrogen is NOT made out of progesterone and estrogen isn't about being female; it is about being inflamed. Men have estrogen too.

I'd like to suggest that you read Ray Peat's articles on progesterone. You can easily find them using this search engine: PeatSearch: a Ray Peat-specific search engine - Toxinless Use the search cell on the left to search Ray Peat's articles for: progesterone, estrogen, pregnenolone, and whatever else you find of interest.

You can also search through all the audio interviews using this search engine: Bioenergetic Search

I have found this group of three interviews to be especially helpful to understand progesterone and estrogen:

• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 1
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 2
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 3

I looked at the ingredients of NatPro:

• de-ionised water
• caprylic/capric triglyceride
• cetearyl olivate/sorbitan olivate
• progesterone Ph. Eur. USP. JP.
• Aspen bark extract
• dehydroxanthan gum
• vitamin E

I know nothing about NatPro but the "dehydroxanthan gum" and the "Aspen bark extract" make me wonder. I wouldn't feel safe swallowing it.

I see this info too: "Natpro cream has a concentration of 3.33% progesterone or 33.33 milligrams per gram" which means it has 1/3 the amount of progesterone in it than Progest-E which is 10% progesterone.

Some Progest-E information: Dr. Peat's Progest E Oil Complex, 34 ml Ray Peat is not affiliated with this product and makes no financial gain from it.

 

[mostlylurking]

37 y/o female here, 5'7
I've found a couple posts mentioning the use of Natpro but was wondering if anyone could give me an updated experience on it?
I am suffering from recurring fibroids/polyps, mid cycle spotting. Had a D&C last year but the spotting came back and so did the fibroids and polyp. Doctors are so unhelpful--'they aren't currently worried, refused to do bloodwork and recommended the hormonal mirena iud as a treatment' Getting off birth control 10 years ago is what ultimately led me to Ray Peat. I went through a terrible cascade of issues hairloss, acne, anxiety, the list goes on. Needless to say I will NEVER go back on birth control again.

Yep, I think you're right about the estrogen dominance. Please also consider and research the B vitamins AND estrogen. Just type in the search cell I provided above "estrogen and thiamine", for example, then read the little snippets that come up to find articles of interest.

I suspect estrogen dominance, I also suspect hypothyroidism and have experimented with Tyromax in the past but ultimately didn't feel like it did much for me and got off it last year. I do my best to eat Peat--eggs everyday, coffee, honey, juice, fruit (although not consistently enough) greek yogurt, varying protein, collagen, potatoes, trying to be better about the carrot salad bc I know it could really help me here if Estrogen is the problem. I am also taking the below supplements..
-shilajit resin
-health natura b complex
-health natural vitamin k
-650 mg aspirin daily, sometimes more

Thiamine (B1) is really important when trying to deal with high estrogen. Niacinamide and riboflavin are too. I see that you take health natura's b complex; I have no idea if that is enough for your needs. Estrogen blocks tryptophan from converting to niacin and it instead converts to serotonin.

I've put on 30 lbs in the past 3 years (I was pretty underweight for a while but used to be somewhere around 120 most of my adult life) Feeling rather defeated. I found www.progesteronetherapy.com --a lot of the info on there really resonates. They recommend I use 200mg of the cream, split, daily throughout my entire cycle for a few months to make progesterone dominant and then once symptoms resolve go back to cycling the cream only using in my luteal phase. I realize this sounds high considering what Ray suggests but they posit that women often under-dose which stimulates the estrogen receptors and makes estrogen dominance worse. I will say that even at the 100mg dose I don't really feel any effect, even with other progesterone oils, not sure what that could mean.

When my thiamine function got blocked by Bactrim antibiotic, I gained 25 pounds in 6 weeks so I understand the frustration. Oxidative metabolism goes in the ditch if you have a thiamine deficiency or functional blockage. Thiamine (and riboflavin and thyroid hormone) are needed to clear estrogen via the liver. It's something to consider.

200mg of that cream @ 3.33% = 6.6mg of progesterone. Taken transdermally = pretty much nothing; taken orally = about 6.6mg. I think you misunderstood what Ray suggested. He suggested taking the amount that works for you. If you are severely estrogen dominate with fibroids I suspect you would need more than 6.6 mg (orally).

Dr Peats Progest E Usage Instructions

Discover Kenogen Dr. Peat's Progest-E Oil, a natural progesterone oil complex for hormone balance and women's health. Better than progest cream, discover why.

www.longnaturalhealth.com

"The minimum maintenance dose of Progest-E oil is 3 small drops daily, usually from mid-cycle to menses. Women who have little to no symptoms at all can take this dosage. The more severe your symptoms, the more doses you need. It is recommended that nearly everyone should begin with the high dose directions for 10 days to avoid complications (as low thyroid, high estrogen situations require a high initial dose to avoid progesterone reverting to estrogen). For example, to relieve severe symptoms (hot flashes, menstrual pain, cramping, PMS, ovarian cysts, fibrocystic breast disease, high estrogen, etc.) take one dose (3 drops) five times daily for 10 days (or larger doses), then decrease to about 3 doses daily for 1-2 two weeks (can be longer as needed). Eventually, 1-2 doses for another few weeks or months as needed. Can continue using every day, or if you’re having a regular menses you can switch to a maintenance dose: one dose per day from mid-cycle to start of menses (usually about 14 days)."

also: "One small drop of Progest-E oil contains about 3.5 milligrams of progesterone. Normally, the body produces 10 to 20 milligrams per day. A quantity of 3 or 4 drops usually brings the blood levels up to the normal range, but this dose can be repeated several times during the day if it is needed to control symptoms. Furthermore, one drop will include between 4-22mg of Vitamin E."

So the smallest dose suggested for Progest-E is 3 drops @ 3.5mg/drop = 10.5mg and the recommended dose for the cream you are considering is 200mg @ 3.33% = 6.6mg which is considerably smaller than the smallest dose of Progest-E. If taken orally, you get the full dose, if taken transdermally you get less.

About bioidentical progesterone converting to estrogen: I have never heard Ray Peat suggest that this is possible, although he did say that the synthetic progestins and progestogins are estrogenic and can and do convert to estrogen. This has really caused confusion; the industry has labeled estrogenic substances as progestins. This confusion has grown, gotten a life of its own, and shows up online everywhere.

The article you provided about NatPro and the links in the article have some good information. However, I just do not believe that 100% of their progesterone gets into the body transdermally. I'm basing that belief on Ray Peat's information.

Please listen to the three audio shows about progesterone I provided above. I think you will have a better understanding about possible dosages of progesterone and its safety.

 

[Rtm320]

@mostlylurking Wow, thank-you so so much for your incredibly thoughtful replies!! I really appreciate you sharing your experience and including all these references.
Just finished listening to the Poly Sci part 1 convo, and will continue delving in. I ordered Progest-e as well. Can be so overwhelming trying to sort out health issues when Doctors are of no use. I am so grateful for this site and to be connected with people like you! Thanks again

 

[mostlylurking]

@mostlylurking Wow, thank-you so so much for your incredibly thoughtful replies!! I really appreciate you sharing your experience and including all these references.
Just finished listening to the Poly Sci part 1 convo, and will continue delving in. I ordered Progest-e as well. Can be so overwhelming trying to sort out health issues when Doctors are of no use. I am so grateful for this site and to be connected with people like you! Thanks again

you're welcome. Glad to try to help.

When I found Ray Peat, I was really in crisis with rheumatoid arthritis and estrogen dominance and hypothyroidism that was not being adequately addressed. I would find Peat articles and print them out with a 2 column format (I needed really short lines of words because my eyes weren't able to track across a whole page). I read them multiple times, and marked them up with my notes. It helped a lot because my short term memory was in the ditch. I also burned mp3 cds of Ray Peat interviews and listened to them over and over. I got pretty weird, and very boring to normal people. But I did not die and I did get well.