Need help understanding estrogen issues

[curious_anthro]

I am having a hard time understanding my very low blood & urine estrogen (E1, E2 & E3) results but estrogen dominance symptoms (cystic acne, PCOS, hirsutism). I know that serum estrogen does not tell you much but is this also true for urine?

I know RP says estrogen can still be high in the tissues... liver problems, endotoxin, inflammed tissues & PUFA can push estrogen to be stored in the tissue. But why do I also have the symptoms of low estrogen (vaginal dryness, dry eyes, low libido, fatigue)? My estrogen levels are extremely low almost in postmenopausal ranges and I am 28.

Can tissue "steal" estrogen, causing both low and high estrogen symptoms? Has anyone else experienced this?

Other than lowering PUFA in diet, what else can help? I have tried progesterone cream and it made all of these symptoms a lot worse.

Any advice on the above would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Kaur Singh]

I think the beauty of Peat's view is understanding how different substances and systems are interacting.

To look at one substance in isolation is tricky...
The urine test - was it a spot sample or 24 hour collection?
(I wouldn't put much stock on it if it was a spot test)

I would ask:
what are progesterone levels? in relationship to estrogen? (day 21 seems a good day to measure)
How about cholesterol?
And vitamin A and D levels/intake (sun exposure included)?
What are temperatures and heart rate throughout the day?
What about blood glucose levels?

How about thyroid supplementation, done thoughtfully?

Always going back to the basics of energetic function and production
and Peat's articles - he's got a whole book on hormones.

And find ways to tinker things. Maybe the dose of progesterone was too high or too low.
Vitamin E was called the fertility vitamin... have you tried that and then introduced progesterone (or together)?
Sometimes the excipients can be the ones causing strange reactions.
Start low and slow with any new substance or food, etc.

Did you also have early onset menarche?

If your progesterone is also low, then it will be low in relationship to estrogen, even if estrogen is low, etc.

 

[Ravenslore]

You might re-approach progesterone using a bio-identical one. The only one I know is Progestene from Idea Labs. I react badly to over the counter creams, but very well to Progestene.

I wonder if you're having trouble converting substances in your liver for your body to use or clear. In that scenario you'd have a whole mess of abnormal levels caused by liver processes blocked by lack of resources. The most common deficiencies would probably be fructose, B1, B3, Vitamin E, Vitamin D, glycine, taurine and tyrosine. I'd start with vitamin E and milk thistle. It might also help to take betaine and/or TUDCA with high protein meals... and make sure you get enough protein. You could hit a lot of these deficiencies easily with a few soft boiled pasture raised eggs in the morning. Magnesium and calcium will also be important. Take magnesium twice a day and calcium once a day.

 

[curious_anthro]

I think the beauty of Peat's view is understanding how different substances and systems are interacting.

To look at one substance in isolation is tricky...
The urine test - was it a spot sample or 24 hour collection?
(I wouldn't put much stock on it if it was a spot test)

I would ask:
what are progesterone levels? in relationship to estrogen? (day 21 seems a good day to measure)
How about cholesterol?
And vitamin A and D levels/intake (sun exposure included)?
What are temperatures and heart rate throughout the day?
What about blood glucose levels?

How about thyroid supplementation, done thoughtfully?

Always going back to the basics of energetic function and production
and Peat's articles - he's got a whole book on hormones.

And find ways to tinker things. Maybe the dose of progesterone was too high or too low.
Vitamin E was called the fertility vitamin... have you tried that and then introduced progesterone (or together)?
Sometimes the excipients can be the ones causing strange reactions.
Start low and slow with any new substance or food, etc.

Did you also have early onset menarche?

If your progesterone is also low, then it will be low in relationship to estrogen, even if estrogen is low, etc.

Hi thanks so much for your reply. The test involved both spot and 24 hour collection. I have also had blood drawn which seems to confirm the results but I am aware these tests still don't provide a full picture.

Those are very good questions but I have gone down nearly all of those routes. Progesterone is low because I am not ovulating which I know pretty confidently... My temps are good but not pulse which I am not sure about.

I do want to try thyroid supplementation at some point but I have heard you should try that last as it can "push the gas pedal" and make things worse if you haven't worked on other areas first. I also still don't understand how to properly experiment with that. Do you know of any good resources?

Vitamin E makes my skin break out very badly. As does liver very sad as I never really hear others experience/talk about this... I tried "pushing" through it and dropping it back to only a few times a month but it never improved that symptom so I stopped.

I am 28 and have had this symptoms for about 5 years so I doubt I have early onset menarche... but have considered primary ovarian insufficiency. All a bit depressing! But yes I will go back and read Ray's articles again as I always learn something new each time.

 

[curious_anthro]

You might re-approach progesterone using a bio-identical one. The only one I know is Progestene from Idea Labs. I react badly to over the counter creams, but very well to Progestene.

I wonder if you're having trouble converting substances in your liver for your body to use or clear. In that scenario you'd have a whole mess of abnormal levels caused by liver processes blocked by lack of resources. The most common deficiencies would probably be fructose, B1, B3, Vitamin E, Vitamin D, glycine, taurine and tyrosine. I'd start with vitamin E and milk thistle. It might also help to take betaine and/or TUDCA with high protein meals... and make sure you get enough protein. You could hit a lot of these deficiencies easily with a few soft boiled pasture raised eggs in the morning. Magnesium and calcium will also be important. Take magnesium twice a day and calcium once a day.

This is really helpful. Thank you so much. I have heard from another lady that they only had success with prescribed oral progesterone so I might try that. Did you supplement Progestene day 14-28 of your cycle or throughout every day? I know there are different approaches.

I have really tried to focus on vitamins like B, E and D...also milk thistle and daily gelatine... using diet and supplements recommended on the forum but have not tried taurine or tyrosine. What are their benefits?

I eat pretty high protein and take magnesium, digestive enzymes and betaine HCL after meals. Have not tried calcium either though but I do have greek yogurt and cheese every day. How do you supplement calcium?

 

[BetterCallSaul]

Have you checked your SHBG?

 

[curious_anthro]

Have you checked your SHBG?

Yes. It is "within range" (58.00 nmol/L)

 

[AnoushF]

Any update on this? I'm in a similar boat with very low urine estrogens and extremely low progesterone. I have not had a period in almost 2 years, though I did become pregnant (briefly) back in October 2020, so I guess I am still ovulating even though I have no indication whatsoever... I want to be tested for PCOS as I do have hirsutism and I suspect androgen dominance. I have also been struggling to keep my weight stable for the past 2 years despite eating <2000 calories on a weekly average, and doing heavy weight lifting 5 days a week and walking every day. My blood glucose levels are normal (87-100 mg/dL) but my heart rate is between 58-65 BPM :\