Lab Results-Thyroid And Estrogen Dominance Confusion

[Elle]

Hi everyone! I lurk here a lot and have learned so much for you all! I am hoping someone could please provide some insight regarding my labs. I am a 33 year old female and my symptoms are:


-low body temperature
-cold hands/feet/butt
-fatigue/lack of motivation
-fluid retention
-food intolerances
-eczema (but this is clearing with the use of probiotics)
-exercise intolerance (easily injured and gain fat with regular exercise)
-easy weight gain, extreme difficulty in weight loss
-constipation
-CONSTANT hunger


Lab results:

I now know that saliva is the best way to measure hormones, but this is all I have for now.

I suspected that I was suffering from estrogen dominance, so the labs match there. But I was not expecting to have normal thyroid levels (or cortisol levels, for that matter). My understanding was to get my thyroid functioning properly before supplementing with progesterone and I had intended to use my free T4 and T3 levels to determine how I need to proceed to treat my suspected hypothyroidism, but now I’m not sure what to do. I know Dr. Peat says a TSH below 1.0 is ideal and my T3 is on the lower end of normal, so should I try T3 to see if it helps? Or should I start with trying to overcome the estrogen dominance first and see if that corrects the hypothyroid symptoms?


I am trying to prepare to offset any flare-up of estrogen dominant symptoms, particularly weight gain/bloating, before I begin to supplement with progesterone. I really don’t know what to expect because most experiences that I’m reading of people who use progesterone have PCOS, absent or irregular periods, or are in menopause. I have very regular periods (~26 days), although I do have brown spotting on the first day and sometimes throughout. Do people who suffer the most from flare-ups already suffer from high estrogen or does it matter? My estradiol is mid-range, but I don’t know what my xenoestrogen load is, so my total estrogen may in fact be high anyway. Since my SHBG is on the upper end, I suspect it may be. I’m taking Vitamin E (400mg gamma), but I think it may be making me sneeze and it is definitely causing nausea. I’m also considering Vitex and DIM. I question DIM because I would think that could suppress thyroid function--does anyone have any experience with this? I’m debating on taking aspirin (leaky gut). And I’m confused about coffee—Dr. Peat recommends it for metabolism, but it’s estrogenic. I don’t drink much as I am REALLY sensitive to caffeine, so I’m not sure which way to go with that. I know I need to get more fiber and I am trying to work on that.


I know the recommendation is to use a high dose of progesterone to offset the estrogen dominance flare-up, but I am really sensitive to caffeine and some supplements (oh and orange juice, apparently), so I’m not sure if that’s an option for me. Slow and steady is how I have to begin everything else or I’ll get heart palpitations. Would transdermal be a safer way for me to start since it would be a slower-release or will that just exacerbate the estrogen dominant symptoms more?

 

[tomisonbottom]

Hi everyone! I lurk here a lot and have learned so much for you all! I am hoping someone could please provide some insight regarding my labs. I am a 33 year old female and my symptoms are:


-low body temperature
-cold hands/feet/butt
-fatigue/lack of motivation
-fluid retention
-food intolerances
-eczema (but this is clearing with the use of probiotics)
-exercise intolerance (easily injured and gain fat with regular exercise)
-easy weight gain, extreme difficulty in weight loss
-constipation
-CONSTANT hunger


Lab results:

View attachment 2595

I now know that saliva is the best way to measure hormones, but this is all I have for now.

I suspected that I was suffering from estrogen dominance, so the labs match there. But I was not expecting to have normal thyroid levels (or cortisol levels, for that matter). My understanding was to get my thyroid functioning properly before supplementing with progesterone and I had intended to use my free T4 and T3 levels to determine how I need to proceed to treat my suspected hypothyroidism, but now I’m not sure what to do. I know Dr. Peat says a TSH below 1.0 is ideal and my T3 is on the lower end of normal, so should I try T3 to see if it helps? Or should I start with trying to overcome the estrogen dominance first and see if that corrects the hypothyroid symptoms?


I am trying to prepare to offset any flare-up of estrogen dominant symptoms, particularly weight gain/bloating, before I begin to supplement with progesterone. I really don’t know what to expect because most experiences that I’m reading of people who use progesterone have PCOS, absent or irregular periods, or are in menopause. I have very regular periods (~26 days), although I do have brown spotting on the first day and sometimes throughout. Do people who suffer the most from flare-ups already suffer from high estrogen or does it matter? My estradiol is mid-range, but I don’t know what my xenoestrogen load is, so my total estrogen may in fact be high anyway. Since my SHBG is on the upper end, I suspect it may be. I’m taking Vitamin E (400mg gamma), but I think it may be making me sneeze and it is definitely causing nausea. I’m also considering Vitex and DIM. I question DIM because I would think that could suppress thyroid function--does anyone have any experience with this? I’m debating on taking aspirin (leaky gut). And I’m confused about coffee—Dr. Peat recommends it for metabolism, but it’s estrogenic. I don’t drink much as I am REALLY sensitive to caffeine, so I’m not sure which way to go with that. I know I need to get more fiber and I am trying to work on that.


I know the recommendation is to use a high dose of progesterone to offset the estrogen dominance flare-up, but I am really sensitive to caffeine and some supplements (oh and orange juice, apparently), so I’m not sure if that’s an option for me. Slow and steady is how I have to begin everything else or I’ll get heart palpitations. Would transdermal be a safer way for me to start since it would be a slower-release or will that just exacerbate the estrogen dominant symptoms more?

View attachment 2595 View attachment 2595

If you're sensitive to caffeine, it likely means poor liver function. Try small amounts after a meal with lots of sugar and salt and see how you do. Caffeine is not estrogenic at all, in fact in large doses it can raise progesterone. But it can cause stress taken on an empty stomach or with not enough sugar or salt. If you're cold and have constipation you might be in need of many grams of sugar each time and a 1/2 teaspoon of salt or so with each meal.

Pure Betataine HCL helps some people with bloating.
Large amounts of coconut oil and carrot and activated charcoal help me with bloating and IBS.

Vitamin E should not make you feel sick either. Are there added ingredients? Try to get a pure one and take it with a fatty meal.

I wouldn't worry too much about your TSH, because lab tests aren't ever as accurate as symptoms. Your TSH might very well be 1.2 in the afternoon and 4.9 at night.
Are you taking your pulse and temp, and seeing how different foods effect that?

 

[tara]

-CONSTANT hunger

That sounds like a need for more food - probably carbs and/or protein, but possibly some micronutrients missing to make good use of it?

And I’m confused about coffee—Dr. Peat recommends it for metabolism, but it’s estrogenic.

Not sure that this is right - I thought there was some evidence of it increasing progesterone levels? I don't handle coffee particularly well so far, so I don't use much. If you are sentsitive toit, I'd take it easy and maybe just experiment gently with increasing it a little, and see how it goes, but not force it if it's not working well for you?

I suspected that I was suffering from estrogen dominance, so the labs match there. But I was not expecting to have normal thyroid levels (or cortisol levels, for that matter). My understanding was to get my thyroid functioning properly before supplementing with progesterone and I had intended to use my free T4 and T3 levels to determine how I need to proceed to treat my suspected hypothyroidism, but now I’m not sure what to do. I know Dr. Peat says a TSH below 1.0 is ideal and my T3 is on the lower end of normal, so should I try T3 to see if it helps? Or should I start with trying to overcome the estrogen dominance first and see if that corrects the hypothyroid symptoms?

I'm not expert here, but if it were me with your labs I'd probably try the progesterone before the thyroid. There is a description that suggests starting with higher amounts of progesterone initially, and then reducing it when less is needed, to help make sure it actually opposes the estrogen that it brings into circulation. I'm not 1005 sure if that description is from Peat or matches his thinking, or whether it comes from other people.
How low is the body temp? Estrogen tends to lower the thermostat, so it's possible that progesterone would help increase that.

But before doing either, I'd check diet to see that basic nutrition is probably being covered. Adding thyroid supps to hungry sounds like a recipe for increased stress. Do you want to tell something about wheat/how much you are eating?

The constipation may be worth addressing directly, but looking at diet first probably makes sense with this too. Constipation can increase endotoxin load in the system, and maybe contributes to ezczema - that antibiotics helped is consistent with this possibility. Different people seem to find different dietary tactics helpful against constipation. I guess you've tried the daily carrot salad?

 

[Elle]

If you're sensitive to caffeine, it likely means poor liver function. Try small amounts after a meal with lots of sugar and salt and see how you do. Caffeine is not estrogenic at all, in fact in large doses it can raise progesterone. But it can cause stress taken on an empty stomach or with not enough sugar or salt. If you're cold and have constipation you might be in need of many grams of sugar each time and a 1/2 teaspoon of salt or so with each meal.

Pure Betataine HCL helps some people with bloating.
Large amounts of coconut oil and carrot and activated charcoal help me with bloating and IBS.

Vitamin E should not make you feel sick either. Are there added ingredients? Try to get a pure one and take it with a fatty meal.

I wouldn't worry too much about your TSH, because lab tests aren't ever as accurate as symptoms. Your TSH might very well be 1.2 in the afternoon and 4.9 at night.
Are you taking your pulse and temp, and seeing how different foods effect that?

Thank you so much for the reply! I keep reading conflicting things about coffee/caffeine and estrogen, but I'm more inclined to agree with Peat-minded people.:) That is a good point about liver function--I'm really sensitive to alcohol as well. I tried a liver detoxifying supplement in the past, but I had a histamine reaction to it. Maybe I need to try to find another one. Are there any Peat-style recommendations for improving liver function?

I see mentions on here a lot of lots of sugar in coffee--what qualifies as lots of sugar to you all? I'm naturally inclined to put more sugar in my coffee than most people, but I'm not sure it's enough. I always crave something sweet immediately after a big meal, so I will continue to feed that craving and I will definitely try increasing my salt.

I've tried Betaine HCL with bitters, but it made my eczema worse. I think it was the bitters--I'm going to try to find some without. Digestive enzymes help a lot. I keep activated charcoal on hand, but I don't use it much because I think I have nutrient absorption issues from leaky gut, and it can cause constipation.

My temperatures don't seem to be particularly affected by foods as far as I can tell, but I'm not sure. I wish I had been enlightened enough to check my temps and pulse both times I've been on an elimination diet. I will do that when I finally find the time to do another one. My pulse is most obviously affected by caffeine, but I drank one serving of orange juice the other day and my heart was racing for hours after that. I'm not sure if the was the sugar, the potassium, or the combination of the two. I think I have a hard time maintaining electrolytes, so it could have been the sudden influx of potassium in the midst of a potassium deficiency, idk.

 

[Elle]

That sounds like a need for more food - probably carbs and/or protein, but possibly some micronutrients missing to make good use of it?


Not sure that this is right - I thought there was some evidence of it increasing progesterone levels? I don't handle coffee particularly well so far, so I don't use much. If you are sentsitive toit, I'd take it easy and maybe just experiment gently with increasing it a little, and see how it goes, but not force it if it's not working well for you?


I'm not expert here, but if it were me with your labs I'd probably try the progesterone before the thyroid. There is a description that suggests starting with higher amounts of progesterone initially, and then reducing it when less is needed, to help make sure it actually opposes the estrogen that it brings into circulation. I'm not 1005 sure if that description is from Peat or matches his thinking, or whether it comes from other people.
How low is the body temp? Estrogen tends to lower the thermostat, so it's possible that progesterone would help increase that.

But before doing either, I'd check diet to see that basic nutrition is probably being covered. Adding thyroid supps to hungry sounds like a recipe for increased stress. Do you want to tell something about wheat/how much you are eating?

The constipation may be worth addressing directly, but looking at diet first probably makes sense with this too. Constipation can increase endotoxin load in the system, and maybe contributes to ezczema - that antibiotics helped is consistent with this possibility. Different people seem to find different dietary tactics helpful against constipation. I guess you've tried the daily carrot salad?

You are may be right about the protein. I'm trying to increase it, but finding it difficult. I've never been a meat person (except for processed of course lol), and while I do like fish and shellfish, I don't have much access to fresh right now. I am eating some canned oysters occasionally. I'm trying to increase my dairy, but it's hard when also trying to not gain fat.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think you're right. I've read that estrogen can block T3, so hopefully the progesterone will take care of that and I won't need to supplement thyroid. My temps range from 96.8-97.4 in the morning and I don't get past 98.3 by late afternoon, if that. I'm hoping the progesterone will help with that. I keep reading about using a higher dosage at first, but I'm so sensitive to other things, I'm not sure if that's a good idea. That's why I'm trying to find ways to reduce my estrogen load before I even start, so hopefully I can reduce the estrogen dominance flare-up and avoid having to try a higher dose.

That's a good point about adding the thyroid supps. I really want to get my nutritional levels tested. I do eat wheat but not every day. I have wondered if it is an issue. It doesn't seem to contribute directly to any digestive distress, but it may be contributing to the constipation. I had a food sensitivity test done a while back and wheat tested mildly reactive--as in I can eat it, but I need to rotate it and I probably don't rotate it enough. Carrots tested the same, so I'm not sure a daily carrot salad is a good idea. I may try it anyway.

That is a good point about the probiotics. I need to find a way to increase fiber that will agree with my system and not worsen leaky gut. I use Mag-O occasionally to try to make sure things don't back up too much for too long, but I prefer the food-as-medicine approach.

Thanks so much for your help!

 

[tomisonbottom]

Thank you so much for the reply! I keep reading conflicting things about coffee/caffeine and estrogen, but I'm more inclined to agree with Peat-minded people.:) That is a good point about liver function--I'm really sensitive to alcohol as well. I tried a liver detoxifying supplement in the past, but I had a histamine reaction to it. Maybe I need to try to find another one. Are there any Peat-style recommendations for improving liver function?

I see mentions on here a lot of lots of sugar in coffee--what qualifies as lots of sugar to you all? I'm naturally inclined to put more sugar in my coffee than most people, but I'm not sure it's enough. I always crave something sweet immediately after a big meal, so I will continue to feed that craving and I will definitely try increasing my salt.

I've tried Betaine HCL with bitters, but it made my eczema worse. I think it was the bitters--I'm going to try to find some without. Digestive enzymes help a lot. I keep activated charcoal on hand, but I don't use it much because I think I have nutrient absorption issues from leaky gut, and it can cause constipation.

My temperatures don't seem to be particularly affected by foods as far as I can tell, but I'm not sure. I wish I had been enlightened enough to check my temps and pulse both times I've been on an elimination diet. I will do that when I finally find the time to do another one. My pulse is most obviously affected by caffeine, but I drank one serving of orange juice the other day and my heart was racing for hours after that. I'm not sure if the was the sugar, the potassium, or the combination of the two. I think I have a hard time maintaining electrolytes, so it could have been the sudden influx of potassium in the midst of a potassium deficiency, idk.

Start taking your temp before and after meals, and you can see what effects you in which way. Also take it upon waking before eating or drinking anything, and ideally before even getting up.

Vitamin K and caffeine can both help the liver. Search the forum for those terms.

In my opinion a "lot" of sugar in one serving would be 50 grams. If that causes racing heart then I think it's something else you're eating/drinking with it, or else you might need to try progesterone if you can't handle the sugar.

A lot of commercial orange juice is bad quality, so if you can juice fresh valencia or "juice" oranges, it would probably be way better for your digestion.
The racing heart might also be caused by too much liquid. Try the OJ along with something more solid, like cheese, or potatoes.

I don't think what you're saying makes sense about activated charcoal because it will help heal your gut. And it's not going to absorb anything except for what you eat or drink around the same time. So just take it before bed, a few hours away from other food or supplements. It can be very helpful for healing the gut. So is coconut oil and a daily carrot.
Then just take magnesium or cascara daily to make sure you don't get constipated.