FAMILIARIZE YOURSELF with the Book of Revelations, "END TIMES" - EVERY PROPHECY MUST be FULFILLED

[S.Holmes]

That was fulfilled on the holy mount when Jesus appeared to Peter, James and John in the full glory of his kingdom. That's explicitly described several verses later in 3 of the gospels.



That was not the Revelation. They asked Jesus 3 specific questions, which that was an answer to one of them



That just means his coming is getting nearer, which is always true until he appears. The word has no immediacy to it.

Also Matthew 24 is the pre Revelation passage. Everything in that passage was discussed in detail in The Revelation.

 

[Perry Staltic]

I can't reply to your post because there is no text. That word has relational meaning, but not a temporal one. It's also used in James 4:8 and simply means approach

 

[S.Holmes]

I can't reply to you post because there is no text. That word has relational meaning, but not a temporal one. It's also used in James 4:8 and simply means approach

We will agree to disagree on this point since we are obviously using different interpretive hermeneutics. On to another. (Keep in mind that this is really not doing the topic of fulfillment justice. I studied for months, taking trips to the library for historical writings to provide context before becoming convinced. On the other hand, it took my husband all of 2 minutes to be convinced (not kidding). He was an avid student of scripture from birth (his grandfather was a futurist pastor). He said to me that (preterism) "makes more sense than anything I have ever heard."

So here is a bit of historical context:
"I believe that the name “Nero Caesar” is the primary focus of the 666 cryptogram for John’s immediate audience. Why? Because the mark of the beast is not just the coins issued by a particular emperor, the mark of the beast is Roman money as a whole. Every Roman emperor printed money with their name on it. But Nero Caesar appears to be specifically named in the 666 cryptogram and the 616 variant simply and perhaps solely because he was the emperor who reigned when Revelation was written. If any other emperor were the intended, solitary solution for John’s seven churches it would be impossible for these Christians to decode this riddle at the time in which Revelation was written and distributed.

Having identified Nero as the primary focus of Revelation 13:18, I think it is important to highlight the historical context in which Revelation was written so as to further bolster the idea that Nero is encrypted in the 666 cryptogram. Apollonius of Tyana, a first century Roman seer, is recorded to have said:

In my travels, which have been wider than ever man yet accomplished, I have seen many, many wild beasts of Arabia and India; but this beast, that is commonly called a Tyrant, I know not how many heads it has, nor if it be crooked of claw, and armed with horrible fangs. . . . And of wild beasts you cannot say that they were ever known to eat their own mother, but Nero has gorged himself on this diet.157

John and Apollonius were not the only Romans to call Nero a beast. The Sibylline Oracles, dating to the second century A.D., labels Nero a “great beast” and Lactantius echoes these sentiments calling him a “noxious wild beast.”158 These epithets were no coincidence. Nero’s evil was legendary."

 

[JamesGatz]

Infiltration and corruption, interesting. A house divided kind of thing.

Yea, that sounds about right

 

[lionel]

I love this forum, but lurk in the shadows. Learning really and so many thanks to many of you and esp @haidut . I've been Peaty for years . Don;t know much science but (the Abrahamic variety) God, I do know about
I wrote this years ago. Excuse any patronizing language I should have rewritten it . Throw away your self-fulfilling revelation fiction!

God & The Great Reset

Repositioning God & the God Concept for the Great Reset

The destruction of the Infantile Myths of Good and Evil


By Lionel R


“We have proof that praying to God will not ease our pain

We have no proof that not praying to God will incur God's vengeance

But we do know that once there was a God who made a promise and gave a blessing. Learn the significance of this and you will be set free “

​

Even despite a pandemic, in the middle of a disastrous financial crisis, with war raging, and new technology being wielded about widly , humanity has a way out . It is called the Great Reset. It depends on science and technocracy, it is guded by the brightest and most intelligent minds. It could work to the advantage of all BUT it faces many barriers, not least of which is the accusation, borne out out fear and despair that the Great reset is some evil satanic force out to capture freedom and our souls. Religious fear lurks behind many of the accusations, that somehow The Great Reset goes against the very will of God. It is this that I am concerned about and it is this that I have a solution for and the solution is by rational theological logic, if such a thing can be thought to exist .

So who am I ? I have been a seeker of God and an amteur student of theology for 50 yeats, Raised a jew, but trabvelled far and wide. I understand only too well religious fear and guilt and how belief in god holds back so many from realizing their true potential. I am positing that we need to revisit the Bible to get its true message and once found we need to get it out there. Remember that we are not interested here as to trying to prove whether God exists etc, w\useless time consuming questions. Rather we are seeking go re=-examine religious beliefs with a more sciengific nd logical mind than is the usual and actually when we do this, the findings are rather startling . More than this, the findings are useful, potentially helpful in dealing with cases of religious fear and guilt and quite frankly liberating and will be so for many. Not only do we see the true nature of God we also can despense with the childish myths of gooad ane evil and get off the duality once and for all.



I’m going to use a join the dots approach, so let’s jump straight in Where should we start?. Most world religious conflicts are to do with Abrahamic religions and this is the best place to start ie with the oldest account we have ie with genesis, the first book of the Bible Just two things at the outset to reiterate

It does not matter whether the reader of this believes in God or not. One must not lose sight of the fact that millions of people do and are incapacitated by that belief as a result Incapacitated by fear, prejudice, hatred, custom, rivalry etc. Secondly it does not matter who exactly God is, rather it is His nature that is important for humanity to understand so we are not going to be discussing Enki and Enlil or some combination of the two Sumerian Gods, hence Elohim We do know that The Sumerian story of the Flood is the oldest legend of that event and that Jewish scribes once lived in Sumer and they were fastidious about recording everything with letter by letter accuracy. Not one letter would have been mistyped, for that would have been a blasphemy!

. No, it matters not who God is. The point is that people believe in God and they wield the Bible at will. It is their sword at times, their shield at others . The WEF have been accused of going against God by the potential removal of freewill choice etc . the matter needs addressing, w\the whole concepyt of good and evil does.

Surprisingly the Old testament Bible is very clear that whilst there is a Creator, scientifically unproven of course in our times, this Creator does not get involved with, nor intervene in this world. In other words, whilst God sees all things God has given us freewill and the responsibility of dealing ourselves with the wickedness that some commit

That is not my religious opinion. It is the very Bible that tells this to us, and the purpose of this thesis summary is to show you the logic that has led to the above claim and the way in which we have all been so misled. Basically, Semitic religions have misrepresented the facts to us, and that God has not been with us in this world since Genesis

Starting at the beginning with the right Objective

It is vital to get two things absolutely correct when you are setting out to find or discover something, like the truth of things. Firstly, one must make sure one has the objective clearly defined in the mind’s eye; nothing else will do. In this thesis the main objective is the understanding of the true nature of God, and good and evil especially in relation to humanity and our world Secondly one really does have to find the beginning of things and start there

Understanding The true nature of God

For myself and I imagine millions of other around the world God is Perfection and would create and treat us all equally. God would allow us freewill but regardless of this God would have to be omnipotent omnipresent, omnipresent all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing and perfect to be God and nothing less would suffice. God would never be towards his creations, weak, indecisive, violent, destructive, vengeful, demanding of followers, praise and worship, angry and so on. Why not? Surely if God were all-powerful, God could be anything that God wishes, and this must be true but to us his creations he is as an ever-loving all-powerful parent that has blessed us with free-will. It is a difference between "could" and "would". God created our world, blessed us all to be fruitful and multiply and has no wish ever to destroy us, no matter how bad we get. At this point some people might bring up the Flood, but that will be dealt with later. God was, is and will ever be beneficial to us.

It is not easy to consider God, given the duality of our nature and our world. We live in a world of life and death, good and bad, growth and shrinkage. We may well be represented by the number two, but God is represented only by the number one. God has no duality, no blessings and curses, only blessings. While we grow and wither, God only grows. While we wax and wane, God only waxes. While we can be love and hatred, God is only love. How can this be when we are made in the image of God I hear the theist cry? It is because we are made in His image, not a carbon copy. The statement that we are created in the image of G‑d means that we were formed as a reflection of our Creator’s attributes and characteristics. This cannot be taken to mean that we literally look, feel or think like G‑d does, because He has no form and is not limited in any way. Rather, we are like a one-dimensional reflection of a real object. From the reflection we can have an inkling of the original, but the reflection is literally nothing in comparison to the original.

This is expressed in many ways: some physical, others psychological, and still others are purely in the spiritual realm for example. All other creations are doing exactly what they are programmed to do and cannot change their natures. Only the human being has the power to grow, mature and change, because he or she is a reflection of God, who is unlimited. Man was endowed with the power to think independently, to peer into the future and to make rational decisions. This is a reflection of G‑d’s infinite wisdom, but unlike God, we are flawed



Starting at the beginning. The Truth of Things

If any person attempts to seek the truth of things mid-way through an event or happenstance or at its end, then that person is no more than a fool. The beginning of things is the simplest form, the root. Everything is conceived pure or with the purest of intentions and only later gets corrupted. Note the monk who stripped of all worldly wants and desires can begin to see things for what they really are. With a firm picture in my mind’s eye of this all-powerful, ALL KNOWING AND ALL-SEEING benign creator I decided to use the Old Testament a book I have been familiar with since childhood i.e. the beginning of things to start at. I could have started anywhere I suppose, in the Old Testament, The New Testament, The Koran but no I sensibly decided to start at the beginning and I must say that as every Muslim really does believe that it was Allah who wrote the Old Testament for the Jews I doubt that Muslims would object to my using, in their eyes Allah’s first holy book. What’s more I’m going to use the part that The Jewish nation were NOT accused of tampering with, by both Muslims and Christians i.e. Genesis. I doubt Christianity would object either. After all my mission was to find God and Christianity reveres the Old Testament almost as much as the New Testament, I’m sure they would agree that the God of Genesis is God as certainly would the members of the ever-faithful and long-suffering Jewish religion.

To me anything in Genesis, i.e. the first, the beginning the original trumps verses that appear later in the Bible and we shall also see why this is true. It must also be remembered that Jewish scribes were at great pains to record everything as accurately as possible, especially in the early parts of the Bible.

I picked up my Bible turned to Genesis and began to read for the ten thousandth time, all the while hoping this time to catch a glimpse of the magnificence that is meant to be God

Adam And Eve

The story of the Creation in my opinion doesn’t do my image of the Creator enough justice and it wasn’t until Adam and Eve did I sense the benevolent magnificence of God, which can be explained thus. God made man and woman and wished to give them freewill i.e. the right and ability to make choices. You can’t descend from heaven and just give your people free-will, their awe of you will make them instant slaves.

God wanted to give Adam and Eve freewill, wanted them to be free. He warned them not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, on pain of death BUT being perfect as we have already posited God surely knew they would disobey.. God had sent one of His creations to offer the other choice to Eve i.e. to have knowledge of good and evil and all that entailed, and the serpent made it an enticing choice, to know what is good and what is not. Eve made her choice and the exit from the garden was not a punishment, it was our choice. We chose to be free of the simple life and instead chose a much more arduous and yet more fulfilling path than just tending animals in the Garden. We were not tricked. We obtained what we wanted and still do, we obtained knowledge and self-awareness. i.e. before decision was made Adam and Eve like animals had no knowledge of themselves, no ability to see themselves. Like animals they were unable to stand outside themselves and view themselves objectively. We humans have been given that gift.

Of course, you must understand this is all my interpretation of the story but I wager that you will be unable to give me another interpretation in keeping with the idea of God as perfection. God didn’t tempt Adam and Eve. For what purpose would he do that if God already knew, being so all-seeing that they would disobey? Utter illogical nonsense! Yet that is what we have been taught for centuries. Why would we assume that God is either flawed or not so powerful? There is only one vaguely relevant counter –argument to my logic and it goes like this “The Lord works in mysterious ways” Well that is not a good enough argument in my opinion.

Another question one could ask is Why God, who could have created perfection did not make us perfect. The answer is simple. In the garden of Eden, we had perfection, no worries, fear, stress, dangers and so on but we chose freewill and self-awareness. We chose the world we now live in. we have freewill and that means we are not beholden nor ruled by a higher power. We have self-awareness which means we are aware of ourselves and the world around us. Unlike an animal which is set on a simple system of surviving i.e. by eating, sleeping defecating and procreating, we humans, should have no the fear of being controlled and because of self-awareness we have higher minds and more complex thought processes. Our understanding of ourselves and our species grows ever deeper; because we have the capacity to study it. Freewill and self-awareness are two gifts from our Creator to us and religion has stolen these from us, telling us how to worship, and how to think of God. ,



The next story in The Bible is that of Cain and Abel

Cain And Abel

Cain kills his brother for offering a better sacrifice to God and God spared him, showing mercy by marking him so that no one would kill him as he wandered, banished. Again God knew that Cain would do such a thing and the mercy and compassion shown is a lesson to humanity, One could reach the conclusion that not only would God spare a murderer but also one that murders out of jealousy borne from the comparison of sacrifices made to God. If one considers the story of Cain and Abel carefully the sacrifices to appease God are less important to God than showing mercy to one who not only murders but also failed in his sacrifice.

Noah The Flood and the Nephilim.

There then follows the story of the Flood where it is made clear to us that God destroyed the Nephilim, evil creatures of abomination that were inter-breeding with us and causing the wickedness. Those that were destroyed were not humans but the spawn of the interrelationships between humanity and the Nephilim.

But it’s the chapter after the Flood that is the key part of the whole Bible.. This is where the truth of things lies and the simplest way to show anyone who studies this thesis, exactly what I have seen is to use the emphasis that the words gave to me, not the other way around. After all I wasn’t studying the words themselves nor the letters, just their meaning as spoken by Perfection.



Genesis Chapter 9

[9:1] God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth.

The flood has subsided, Noah and his sons have been saved.. All that remains are the descendants of us all Noah and his sons, the Fathers of the whole human race. God or if you are Muslim, Allah then blesses all of us, through our ancestors equally.

This is the first blessing that God was to give to all of us and it is quite remarkable. Note the lack of religious instruction. Note the lack of any conditions attached. Remember how you should be reading this with God’s perfection in your mind’s eye Ask yourself how come God made no rules on how we were to behave or worship him? At this key stage? Why is this?

God’s first and only blessing to the WHOLE of humanity carries great weight. Could it be that God could not see our future and therefore got His blessing wrong, or perhaps God forget to tell us about religious duties and made a mess of the whole opportunity. We can’t accept a God that gets it wrong, isn’t so all-powerful and makes a mess of things. that would not be God. It is more than reasonable to argue that God should be perfect, perfection. God should know all about our future and our past and tailor the blessing accordingly which clearly is what happened. We are all equally blessed, especially when God must have known that the descendants of Shem would become Semites i.e. Jews and Muslims, no more blessed, despite their religions, than the descendants of Ham or Japheth.



. But humans are not equal are we?. We are not born into materially the same set of circumstances BUT we are all equally God-blessed, through our ancestors, the ancestors of the whole world. God didn’t get it wrong God is always right The key point is that we all have the same value in the eyes of God even if our material circumstances differ wildly . Ergo an atheist is as equally blessed as a Rabbi or Imam, in the eyes of God, without any dispute. Remember this is Gods first and only blessing to the whole of humanity. God could have said, Be fruitful and multiply. Those who bow down to me and wear hats will get to the heaven, the rest hell. We could therefore conclude that God does not endorse religion. Of course, it would be argued that many later verses contain all the prescriptive elements of religion as given to God by Moses BUT there is none of it in the First Blessing. Perhaps the later parts were added or amended? That is not such a wild theory.

Following on from genesis 9:1 we read 9:2-9:4

[9:2] The fear and dread of you shall rest on every animal of the earth, and on every bird of the air, on everything that creeps on the ground, and on all the fish of the sea; into your hand they are delivered. [9:3] Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. [9:4] Only, you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its soul and blood.

The meaning is clear Don’t eat flesh with its soul and blood i.e. don’t eat live animals is sound advice and may contain a reference related to health and medicine but for now it is not one that we are concerned with..

[9:5] For your own lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning: from every animal I will require it and from human beings, each one for the blood of another, I will require a reckoning for human life.

This is a reference to the after-life and the day of Judgement No one on this Earth can prove whether or not there is an after-life but according to God who is infallible there is something more for us It would not be wild to assume that if we hold God's blessing to our hearts and be fruitful to ourselves and others we would not walk down the wrong path but it is the next verse that should make us reflect a while.

[9:6] Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person's blood be shed; for in his own image God made humankind.

God doesn’t kill nor punish us. Read the verse again…Whoever sheds the blood of man through man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God He made man.

What God is saying here is so very clear. “If you do the very worst of crimes i.e. murder then even then I am not going to intervene and cause holy fire to sweep down from the heavens." In other words God is not going to punish the murderer in this life even though he or she is acting in a manner contradictory to the Blessing where God blessed us all equally to be fruitful and multiply.. God is saying "Because humans were made in my image then it’s up to humans to try the murderer be fair as I was with Adam and Eve and Cain the murderer who killed his brother and yet I spared him. Give your murderer a fair hearing and sentence him. If you kill him then it is your right”

The implications of this are far-reaching. Anyone who kills in the name of God is not killing in the name of God at all. We were all equally blessed. As God is not orchestrating any of these killings we can see right through the phoney theology of religions that urge us to shed blood in the name of unless again one blasphemes by assuming incorrectly that God got his blessing wrong.

This verse is one of the verses used by religion to teach the philosophy of an eye for an eye i.e. they’ve killed your ancestors so you should kill them. But the verse does not mean that in any way. Look at the words and tell me how that means an eye for an eye. The often-overlooked part of the verse are the words for in the image of God He made man. The point is that God had already forgiven Adam and Eve for disobeying him and Cain for killing his brother. God had already shown us what mercy is and Noah and his Sons would have understood.

If the worst of crimes is punishable by us, not God, what about all the rest of our crimes against each other. I believe it is right to say that the punishment for these crimes would also be down to us. In fact God doesn’t seem to be involved or want to be involved in our daily life, despite what later religions preach to us and it’s the later religious nonsense that would be thrown at you if you were to dare stand up and say that we are all equally blessed and God does not punish us but then in my opinion, the later religious writings are just man-made echoes of the earlier stories and poor ones at that. What would you value more do you want the original or a poor, twisted, added to and unoriginal copy?

Of course, counter arguments to this conclusion could be ..

But in the Torah later The Israelites with God’s help killed all sorts of tribes.”

These writings came later in the Torah. God/Allah who is without error nor mistake gave us these words first and would not have changed His mind, nor contradicted himself, nor got his original words wrong. It is likely that there were embellishments but not here, not at this early and original stage, where scribes struggled so hard to write down the words correctly and without error.. Perhaps the later stories were the works of fiction. It is a well-known that the genesis chapter predates the other chapters. Another argument might be

But in Jeremiah/Isaiah/Ezekiel/Amos etc. it states...

These are not the words of God/Allah. These writings all come much later on. Another objection might be

“But it states in the new testament or the Koran”

The New testament and the Koran came much later than the Old testament, How could an-all seeing Allah/God change His mind and why would the subject place more emphasis on a later work than an earlier one. The original blessing did not state “Smite only the unbeliever or those that do not follow the ways of God". It does not ask for the help of man to clear up the sinners. It cannot be explained in any other way. By omission, God had said nothing to us about rape, or robbery, or fraud, or sexual relations with the same sex or anything else. That is because God made it so clear to us here by simple omission that all other acts are subject to the law of Man. He gave us that freedom.

. According to what God said we have the right to kill, those who murder unequivocally. This is big news and directly counters the commandment “Thou shall not kill”, but it is there in Genesis in black and white. The next verses are equally important



[9:7] And you, be fruitful and multiply, abound on the earth and multiply in it." [9:8] Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him, [9:9] "As for me, I am establishing my covenant with you and your descendants after you, [9:10] and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the domestic animals, and every animal of the earth with you, as many as came out of the ark. [9:11] I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth." [9:12] God said, "This is the sign of the covenant that I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all future generations:

Note the words used "You and your descendants after you" and "For all future generations"

It is very clear here that the Covenant and by implication the Blessing were both everlasting, for all time, not to be changed, altered nor corrected.by God. After all an Infallible being, with perfect future sight making such important announcements, would not get them wrong or make an error. we are eternally blessed and for eternity we have been promised never to be destroyed. A far cry from what the three Abrahamic faiths would have you believe.

A Reverend once told me that this verse meant that and I quote “God will never destroy us ever again by water and it reminded me of the row I once had with a well-known Rabbi who insisted the same until I pointed out that its says right at the end “.For everlasting generations We are going to be everlasting according to God. So, if we add that to the nonsense that the priest and rabbi said “God will never destroy us by water again in Gods covenant for everlasting generations. What rubbish! God doesn’t decide not to destroy us with floods leaving other means open, if that was the case we wouldn't last for everlasting generations…God promises never to destroy us ever again for everlasting generations, so what on earth do we need religion for

I can see years of guilt and misery melt away from the God-fearing guilt-ridden when they read this whatever their religion. God doesn’t avenge, God doesn’t destroy God doesn’t kill, God doesn’t command us to destroy each other. God promised for everlasting generations never again to hurt us so what on earth are all these wars about in the Middle–East then?. Nothing to do with God that is for certain.



[9:13] I have set my bow in the clouds, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. [9:14] When I bring clouds over the earth and the bow is seen in the clouds, [9:15] I will remember my covenant that is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. [9:16] When the bow is in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth." [9:17] God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant that I have established between me and all flesh that is on the earth." [9:18] The sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Ham was the father of Canaan. [9:19] These three were the sons of Noah; and from these the whole earth was peopled.



It is an everlasting covenant with a blessing that is for all time from the time of Noah. This is the oldest and most original covenant we have with God. This is God’s promise to us. These commands from God are the ones we must keep........ An all-knowing all-seeing God would have known that we would break this Covenant but God did not add in caveats nor details of what would happen, not if but when we broke this Covenant by shedding blood. The Covenant still stands. The words are clear.

It is essential to understand that an Infallible God makes and Infallible Covenant and that everything that follows on in the Bible after this Covenant is just the words of man.

BUT there is more. “Everlasting generations” means that God will never destroy us ever again. Add that to the blessing and you will understand that God is not for killing in this world and that no human can dare to stand up and say that god or Allah demands that they should kill. That IS blasphemy. Anyone who kills in the name of God is a liar

.

To summarise we have a God who tells us to rule ourselves, who has blessed us to be fruitful and multiply and who has promised never again to destroy us for everlasting generations, so we can say without fear of contradiction that there is no God involvement in this world and anyone who states that there is a liar.



We have stopped at genesis 9:19 This is not the end of the Bible by any means BUT it is the first and last time God blessed all of us together. After this we get a nasty little story about Noah getting drunk and then we have a God of Abraham appearing, far more tribal in tone, far less universal and lacking the Perfection of God that we have been seeking so much so that we start to feel that this new God is not God at all but a tribal invention favouring one set of his creation over another and with a whole new set of rules. It doesn’t sit right. God had made no mention of any of these new developments when he gave us His Blessing and promise and suddenly God is a Hebrew one. The poor Canaanites were slaughtered, but were they not also blessed and covenanted with through their ancestor Shem, never to be destroyed.

What happened to the God of Noah? Did he disappear behind some rainbows or did the later stories take the concept of God for their own You can see the implications of this but that is for another book .



Conclusions

I have shown the reader that even the Bible itself points to the undeniable truth that there is no God that operates in this world. We are right to be secular, to live in a secular society and to treat others as equal. We are right not to be afraid of God or afraid of being punished for being naughty, because even murderers are ours to deal with and not God’s. So much fear and guilt caused by religion and now our very way of life is being challenged by an image of a bloodthirsty God driving the dark forces of terrorism. Only by cutting God out of the equation altogether and side-lining the Semitic religions can we hope for a safe world for our children.

Should you want to know whether there are any prescriptions to live in this world from the above then consider these

1/We should be fruitful to self and others. We should encourage fruitfulness in self and others. Being fruitful to self means adopting the mental and physical condition of looking after oneself, guarding and evaluating one's thoughts and outwardly being amenable and personable.. being fruitful to others means helping and encouraging others, doing all what one can to make the lot of others more bearable, helping them to thrive; family, friends, communities.

2/ We should not believe in divine punishment in this life, i.e. removal of fear

3/ We should treat all others as equals as God blessed all people equally.

4/ we should discard religious custom and tradition and encourage others to do the same.

3/ We have freewill

4/ We should multiply

5/ We should avoid eating live animals

6/ we should not have fear nor guilt,

The ultimate conclusion to this thesis is one that will cause consternation in religious circles. Religion was a human creation that is both unnecessary, inasmuch as humanity does not need it and misleading inasmuch as neither Judaism Christianity nor Islam gives us the true nature of our relationship with God. indeed, if anything they take us far away from our Creator. We kill in the name of God, we fight wars in the name of God, we bow down, pray and worship God in different ways and yet God never instructed us to do any of these things. The only true path for each and every one of us to return to God is to abandon religion forever We have proof that praying to God will not ease our pain, We have no proof that not praying to God will incur God's vengeance. But we do know that once there was a God who made a promise and gave a blessing. Learn the significance of this and you will be set free​

 

[Momma]

I love this forum, but lurk in the shadows. Learning really and so many thanks to many of you and esp @haidut . I've been Peaty for years . Don;t know much science but (the Abrahamic variety) God, I do know about
I wrote this years ago. Excuse any patronizing language I should have rewritten it . Throw away your self-fulfilling revelation fiction!

God & The Great Reset

Repositioning God & the God Concept for the Great Reset

The destruction of the Infantile Myths of Good and Evil


By Lionel R


“We have proof that praying to God will not ease our pain

We have no proof that not praying to God will incur God's vengeance

But we do know that once there was a God who made a promise and gave a blessing. Learn the significance of this and you will be set free “

​

Even despite a pandemic, in the middle of a disastrous financial crisis, with war raging, and new technology being wielded about widly , humanity has a way out . It is called the Great Reset. It depends on science and technocracy, it is guded by the brightest and most intelligent minds. It could work to the advantage of all BUT it faces many barriers, not least of which is the accusation, borne out out fear and despair that the Great reset is some evil satanic force out to capture freedom and our souls. Religious fear lurks behind many of the accusations, that somehow The Great Reset goes against the very will of God. It is this that I am concerned about and it is this that I have a solution for and the solution is by rational theological logic, if such a thing can be thought to exist .

So who am I ? I have been a seeker of God and an amteur student of theology for 50 yeats, Raised a jew, but trabvelled far and wide. I understand only too well religious fear and guilt and how belief in god holds back so many from realizing their true potential. I am positing that we need to revisit the Bible to get its true message and once found we need to get it out there. Remember that we are not interested here as to trying to prove whether God exists etc, w\useless time consuming questions. Rather we are seeking go re=-examine religious beliefs with a more sciengific nd logical mind than is the usual and actually when we do this, the findings are rather startling . More than this, the findings are useful, potentially helpful in dealing with cases of religious fear and guilt and quite frankly liberating and will be so for many. Not only do we see the true nature of God we also can despense with the childish myths of gooad ane evil and get off the duality once and for all.



I’m going to use a join the dots approach, so let’s jump straight in Where should we start?. Most world religious conflicts are to do with Abrahamic religions and this is the best place to start ie with the oldest account we have ie with genesis, the first book of the Bible Just two things at the outset to reiterate

It does not matter whether the reader of this believes in God or not. One must not lose sight of the fact that millions of people do and are incapacitated by that belief as a result Incapacitated by fear, prejudice, hatred, custom, rivalry etc. Secondly it does not matter who exactly God is, rather it is His nature that is important for humanity to understand so we are not going to be discussing Enki and Enlil or some combination of the two Sumerian Gods, hence Elohim We do know that The Sumerian story of the Flood is the oldest legend of that event and that Jewish scribes once lived in Sumer and they were fastidious about recording everything with letter by letter accuracy. Not one letter would have been mistyped, for that would have been a blasphemy!

. No, it matters not who God is. The point is that people believe in God and they wield the Bible at will. It is their sword at times, their shield at others . The WEF have been accused of going against God by the potential removal of freewill choice etc . the matter needs addressing, w\the whole concepyt of good and evil does.

Surprisingly the Old testament Bible is very clear that whilst there is a Creator, scientifically unproven of course in our times, this Creator does not get involved with, nor intervene in this world. In other words, whilst God sees all things God has given us freewill and the responsibility of dealing ourselves with the wickedness that some commit

That is not my religious opinion. It is the very Bible that tells this to us, and the purpose of this thesis summary is to show you the logic that has led to the above claim and the way in which we have all been so misled. Basically, Semitic religions have misrepresented the facts to us, and that God has not been with us in this world since Genesis

Starting at the beginning with the right Objective

It is vital to get two things absolutely correct when you are setting out to find or discover something, like the truth of things. Firstly, one must make sure one has the objective clearly defined in the mind’s eye; nothing else will do. In this thesis the main objective is the understanding of the true nature of God, and good and evil especially in relation to humanity and our world Secondly one really does have to find the beginning of things and start there

Understanding The true nature of God

For myself and I imagine millions of other around the world God is Perfection and would create and treat us all equally. God would allow us freewill but regardless of this God would have to be omnipotent omnipresent, omnipresent all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing and perfect to be God and nothing less would suffice. God would never be towards his creations, weak, indecisive, violent, destructive, vengeful, demanding of followers, praise and worship, angry and so on. Why not? Surely if God were all-powerful, God could be anything that God wishes, and this must be true but to us his creations he is as an ever-loving all-powerful parent that has blessed us with free-will. It is a difference between "could" and "would". God created our world, blessed us all to be fruitful and multiply and has no wish ever to destroy us, no matter how bad we get. At this point some people might bring up the Flood, but that will be dealt with later. God was, is and will ever be beneficial to us.

It is not easy to consider God, given the duality of our nature and our world. We live in a world of life and death, good and bad, growth and shrinkage. We may well be represented by the number two, but God is represented only by the number one. God has no duality, no blessings and curses, only blessings. While we grow and wither, God only grows. While we wax and wane, God only waxes. While we can be love and hatred, God is only love. How can this be when we are made in the image of God I hear the theist cry? It is because we are made in His image, not a carbon copy. The statement that we are created in the image of G‑d means that we were formed as a reflection of our Creator’s attributes and characteristics. This cannot be taken to mean that we literally look, feel or think like G‑d does, because He has no form and is not limited in any way. Rather, we are like a one-dimensional reflection of a real object. From the reflection we can have an inkling of the original, but the reflection is literally nothing in comparison to the original.

This is expressed in many ways: some physical, others psychological, and still others are purely in the spiritual realm for example. All other creations are doing exactly what they are programmed to do and cannot change their natures. Only the human being has the power to grow, mature and change, because he or she is a reflection of God, who is unlimited. Man was endowed with the power to think independently, to peer into the future and to make rational decisions. This is a reflection of G‑d’s infinite wisdom, but unlike God, we are flawed



Starting at the beginning. The Truth of Things

If any person attempts to seek the truth of things mid-way through an event or happenstance or at its end, then that person is no more than a fool. The beginning of things is the simplest form, the root. Everything is conceived pure or with the purest of intentions and only later gets corrupted. Note the monk who stripped of all worldly wants and desires can begin to see things for what they really are. With a firm picture in my mind’s eye of this all-powerful, ALL KNOWING AND ALL-SEEING benign creator I decided to use the Old Testament a book I have been familiar with since childhood i.e. the beginning of things to start at. I could have started anywhere I suppose, in the Old Testament, The New Testament, The Koran but no I sensibly decided to start at the beginning and I must say that as every Muslim really does believe that it was Allah who wrote the Old Testament for the Jews I doubt that Muslims would object to my using, in their eyes Allah’s first holy book. What’s more I’m going to use the part that The Jewish nation were NOT accused of tampering with, by both Muslims and Christians i.e. Genesis. I doubt Christianity would object either. After all my mission was to find God and Christianity reveres the Old Testament almost as much as the New Testament, I’m sure they would agree that the God of Genesis is God as certainly would the members of the ever-faithful and long-suffering Jewish religion.

To me anything in Genesis, i.e. the first, the beginning the original trumps verses that appear later in the Bible and we shall also see why this is true. It must also be remembered that Jewish scribes were at great pains to record everything as accurately as possible, especially in the early parts of the Bible.

I picked up my Bible turned to Genesis and began to read for the ten thousandth time, all the while hoping this time to catch a glimpse of the magnificence that is meant to be God

Adam And Eve

The story of the Creation in my opinion doesn’t do my image of the Creator enough justice and it wasn’t until Adam and Eve did I sense the benevolent magnificence of God, which can be explained thus. God made man and woman and wished to give them freewill i.e. the right and ability to make choices. You can’t descend from heaven and just give your people free-will, their awe of you will make them instant slaves.

God wanted to give Adam and Eve freewill, wanted them to be free. He warned them not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, on pain of death BUT being perfect as we have already posited God surely knew they would disobey.. God had sent one of His creations to offer the other choice to Eve i.e. to have knowledge of good and evil and all that entailed, and the serpent made it an enticing choice, to know what is good and what is not. Eve made her choice and the exit from the garden was not a punishment, it was our choice. We chose to be free of the simple life and instead chose a much more arduous and yet more fulfilling path than just tending animals in the Garden. We were not tricked. We obtained what we wanted and still do, we obtained knowledge and self-awareness. i.e. before decision was made Adam and Eve like animals had no knowledge of themselves, no ability to see themselves. Like animals they were unable to stand outside themselves and view themselves objectively. We humans have been given that gift.

Of course, you must understand this is all my interpretation of the story but I wager that you will be unable to give me another interpretation in keeping with the idea of God as perfection. God didn’t tempt Adam and Eve. For what purpose would he do that if God already knew, being so all-seeing that they would disobey? Utter illogical nonsense! Yet that is what we have been taught for centuries. Why would we assume that God is either flawed or not so powerful? There is only one vaguely relevant counter –argument to my logic and it goes like this “The Lord works in mysterious ways” Well that is not a good enough argument in my opinion.

Another question one could ask is Why God, who could have created perfection did not make us perfect. The answer is simple. In the garden of Eden, we had perfection, no worries, fear, stress, dangers and so on but we chose freewill and self-awareness. We chose the world we now live in. we have freewill and that means we are not beholden nor ruled by a higher power. We have self-awareness which means we are aware of ourselves and the world around us. Unlike an animal which is set on a simple system of surviving i.e. by eating, sleeping defecating and procreating, we humans, should have no the fear of being controlled and because of self-awareness we have higher minds and more complex thought processes. Our understanding of ourselves and our species grows ever deeper; because we have the capacity to study it. Freewill and self-awareness are two gifts from our Creator to us and religion has stolen these from us, telling us how to worship, and how to think of God. ,



The next story in The Bible is that of Cain and Abel

Cain And Abel

Cain kills his brother for offering a better sacrifice to God and God spared him, showing mercy by marking him so that no one would kill him as he wandered, banished. Again God knew that Cain would do such a thing and the mercy and compassion shown is a lesson to humanity, One could reach the conclusion that not only would God spare a murderer but also one that murders out of jealousy borne from the comparison of sacrifices made to God. If one considers the story of Cain and Abel carefully the sacrifices to appease God are less important to God than showing mercy to one who not only murders but also failed in his sacrifice.

Noah The Flood and the Nephilim.

There then follows the story of the Flood where it is made clear to us that God destroyed the Nephilim, evil creatures of abomination that were inter-breeding with us and causing the wickedness. Those that were destroyed were not humans but the spawn of the interrelationships between humanity and the Nephilim.

But it’s the chapter after the Flood that is the key part of the whole Bible.. This is where the truth of things lies and the simplest way to show anyone who studies this thesis, exactly what I have seen is to use the emphasis that the words gave to me, not the other way around. After all I wasn’t studying the words themselves nor the letters, just their meaning as spoken by Perfection.



Genesis Chapter 9

[9:1] God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth.

The flood has subsided, Noah and his sons have been saved.. All that remains are the descendants of us all Noah and his sons, the Fathers of the whole human race. God or if you are Muslim, Allah then blesses all of us, through our ancestors equally.

This is the first blessing that God was to give to all of us and it is quite remarkable. Note the lack of religious instruction. Note the lack of any conditions attached. Remember how you should be reading this with God’s perfection in your mind’s eye Ask yourself how come God made no rules on how we were to behave or worship him? At this key stage? Why is this?

God’s first and only blessing to the WHOLE of humanity carries great weight. Could it be that God could not see our future and therefore got His blessing wrong, or perhaps God forget to tell us about religious duties and made a mess of the whole opportunity. We can’t accept a God that gets it wrong, isn’t so all-powerful and makes a mess of things. that would not be God. It is more than reasonable to argue that God should be perfect, perfection. God should know all about our future and our past and tailor the blessing accordingly which clearly is what happened. We are all equally blessed, especially when God must have known that the descendants of Shem would become Semites i.e. Jews and Muslims, no more blessed, despite their religions, than the descendants of Ham or Japheth.



. But humans are not equal are we?. We are not born into materially the same set of circumstances BUT we are all equally God-blessed, through our ancestors, the ancestors of the whole world. God didn’t get it wrong God is always right The key point is that we all have the same value in the eyes of God even if our material circumstances differ wildly . Ergo an atheist is as equally blessed as a Rabbi or Imam, in the eyes of God, without any dispute. Remember this is Gods first and only blessing to the whole of humanity. God could have said, Be fruitful and multiply. Those who bow down to me and wear hats will get to the heaven, the rest hell. We could therefore conclude that God does not endorse religion. Of course, it would be argued that many later verses contain all the prescriptive elements of religion as given to God by Moses BUT there is none of it in the First Blessing. Perhaps the later parts were added or amended? That is not such a wild theory.

Following on from genesis 9:1 we read 9:2-9:4

[9:2] The fear and dread of you shall rest on every animal of the earth, and on every bird of the air, on everything that creeps on the ground, and on all the fish of the sea; into your hand they are delivered. [9:3] Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. [9:4] Only, you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its soul and blood.

The meaning is clear Don’t eat flesh with its soul and blood i.e. don’t eat live animals is sound advice and may contain a reference related to health and medicine but for now it is not one that we are concerned with..

[9:5] For your own lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning: from every animal I will require it and from human beings, each one for the blood of another, I will require a reckoning for human life.

This is a reference to the after-life and the day of Judgement No one on this Earth can prove whether or not there is an after-life but according to God who is infallible there is something more for us It would not be wild to assume that if we hold God's blessing to our hearts and be fruitful to ourselves and others we would not walk down the wrong path but it is the next verse that should make us reflect a while.

[9:6] Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person's blood be shed; for in his own image God made humankind.

God doesn’t kill nor punish us. Read the verse again…Whoever sheds the blood of man through man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God He made man.

What God is saying here is so very clear. “If you do the very worst of crimes i.e. murder then even then I am not going to intervene and cause holy fire to sweep down from the heavens." In other words God is not going to punish the murderer in this life even though he or she is acting in a manner contradictory to the Blessing where God blessed us all equally to be fruitful and multiply.. God is saying "Because humans were made in my image then it’s up to humans to try the murderer be fair as I was with Adam and Eve and Cain the murderer who killed his brother and yet I spared him. Give your murderer a fair hearing and sentence him. If you kill him then it is your right”

The implications of this are far-reaching. Anyone who kills in the name of God is not killing in the name of God at all. We were all equally blessed. As God is not orchestrating any of these killings we can see right through the phoney theology of religions that urge us to shed blood in the name of unless again one blasphemes by assuming incorrectly that God got his blessing wrong.

This verse is one of the verses used by religion to teach the philosophy of an eye for an eye i.e. they’ve killed your ancestors so you should kill them. But the verse does not mean that in any way. Look at the words and tell me how that means an eye for an eye. The often-overlooked part of the verse are the words for in the image of God He made man. The point is that God had already forgiven Adam and Eve for disobeying him and Cain for killing his brother. God had already shown us what mercy is and Noah and his Sons would have understood.

If the worst of crimes is punishable by us, not God, what about all the rest of our crimes against each other. I believe it is right to say that the punishment for these crimes would also be down to us. In fact God doesn’t seem to be involved or want to be involved in our daily life, despite what later religions preach to us and it’s the later religious nonsense that would be thrown at you if you were to dare stand up and say that we are all equally blessed and God does not punish us but then in my opinion, the later religious writings are just man-made echoes of the earlier stories and poor ones at that. What would you value more do you want the original or a poor, twisted, added to and unoriginal copy?

Of course, counter arguments to this conclusion could be ..

But in the Torah later The Israelites with God’s help killed all sorts of tribes.”

These writings came later in the Torah. God/Allah who is without error nor mistake gave us these words first and would not have changed His mind, nor contradicted himself, nor got his original words wrong. It is likely that there were embellishments but not here, not at this early and original stage, where scribes struggled so hard to write down the words correctly and without error.. Perhaps the later stories were the works of fiction. It is a well-known that the genesis chapter predates the other chapters. Another argument might be

But in Jeremiah/Isaiah/Ezekiel/Amos etc. it states...

These are not the words of God/Allah. These writings all come much later on. Another objection might be

“But it states in the new testament or the Koran”

The New testament and the Koran came much later than the Old testament, How could an-all seeing Allah/God change His mind and why would the subject place more emphasis on a later work than an earlier one. The original blessing did not state “Smite only the unbeliever or those that do not follow the ways of God". It does not ask for the help of man to clear up the sinners. It cannot be explained in any other way. By omission, God had said nothing to us about rape, or robbery, or fraud, or sexual relations with the same sex or anything else. That is because God made it so clear to us here by simple omission that all other acts are subject to the law of Man. He gave us that freedom.

. According to what God said we have the right to kill, those who murder unequivocally. This is big news and directly counters the commandment “Thou shall not kill”, but it is there in Genesis in black and white. The next verses are equally important



[9:7] And you, be fruitful and multiply, abound on the earth and multiply in it." [9:8] Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him, [9:9] "As for me, I am establishing my covenant with you and your descendants after you, [9:10] and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the domestic animals, and every animal of the earth with you, as many as came out of the ark. [9:11] I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth." [9:12] God said, "This is the sign of the covenant that I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all future generations:

Note the words used "You and your descendants after you" and "For all future generations"

It is very clear here that the Covenant and by implication the Blessing were both everlasting, for all time, not to be changed, altered nor corrected.by God. After all an Infallible being, with perfect future sight making such important announcements, would not get them wrong or make an error. we are eternally blessed and for eternity we have been promised never to be destroyed. A far cry from what the three Abrahamic faiths would have you believe.

A Reverend once told me that this verse meant that and I quote “God will never destroy us ever again by water and it reminded me of the row I once had with a well-known Rabbi who insisted the same until I pointed out that its says right at the end “.For everlasting generations We are going to be everlasting according to God. So, if we add that to the nonsense that the priest and rabbi said “God will never destroy us by water again in Gods covenant for everlasting generations. What rubbish! God doesn’t decide not to destroy us with floods leaving other means open, if that was the case we wouldn't last for everlasting generations…God promises never to destroy us ever again for everlasting generations, so what on earth do we need religion for

I can see years of guilt and misery melt away from the God-fearing guilt-ridden when they read this whatever their religion. God doesn’t avenge, God doesn’t destroy God doesn’t kill, God doesn’t command us to destroy each other. God promised for everlasting generations never again to hurt us so what on earth are all these wars about in the Middle–East then?. Nothing to do with God that is for certain.



[9:13] I have set my bow in the clouds, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. [9:14] When I bring clouds over the earth and the bow is seen in the clouds, [9:15] I will remember my covenant that is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. [9:16] When the bow is in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth." [9:17] God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant that I have established between me and all flesh that is on the earth." [9:18] The sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Ham was the father of Canaan. [9:19] These three were the sons of Noah; and from these the whole earth was peopled.



It is an everlasting covenant with a blessing that is for all time from the time of Noah. This is the oldest and most original covenant we have with God. This is God’s promise to us. These commands from God are the ones we must keep........ An all-knowing all-seeing God would have known that we would break this Covenant but God did not add in caveats nor details of what would happen, not if but when we broke this Covenant by shedding blood. The Covenant still stands. The words are clear.

It is essential to understand that an Infallible God makes and Infallible Covenant and that everything that follows on in the Bible after this Covenant is just the words of man.

BUT there is more. “Everlasting generations” means that God will never destroy us ever again. Add that to the blessing and you will understand that God is not for killing in this world and that no human can dare to stand up and say that god or Allah demands that they should kill. That IS blasphemy. Anyone who kills in the name of God is a liar

.

To summarise we have a God who tells us to rule ourselves, who has blessed us to be fruitful and multiply and who has promised never again to destroy us for everlasting generations, so we can say without fear of contradiction that there is no God involvement in this world and anyone who states that there is a liar.



We have stopped at genesis 9:19 This is not the end of the Bible by any means BUT it is the first and last time God blessed all of us together. After this we get a nasty little story about Noah getting drunk and then we have a God of Abraham appearing, far more tribal in tone, far less universal and lacking the Perfection of God that we have been seeking so much so that we start to feel that this new God is not God at all but a tribal invention favouring one set of his creation over another and with a whole new set of rules. It doesn’t sit right. God had made no mention of any of these new developments when he gave us His Blessing and promise and suddenly God is a Hebrew one. The poor Canaanites were slaughtered, but were they not also blessed and covenanted with through their ancestor Shem, never to be destroyed.

What happened to the God of Noah? Did he disappear behind some rainbows or did the later stories take the concept of God for their own You can see the implications of this but that is for another book .



Conclusions

I have shown the reader that even the Bible itself points to the undeniable truth that there is no God that operates in this world. We are right to be secular, to live in a secular society and to treat others as equal. We are right not to be afraid of God or afraid of being punished for being naughty, because even murderers are ours to deal with and not God’s. So much fear and guilt caused by religion and now our very way of life is being challenged by an image of a bloodthirsty God driving the dark forces of terrorism. Only by cutting God out of the equation altogether and side-lining the Semitic religions can we hope for a safe world for our children.

Should you want to know whether there are any prescriptions to live in this world from the above then consider these

1/We should be fruitful to self and others. We should encourage fruitfulness in self and others. Being fruitful to self means adopting the mental and physical condition of looking after oneself, guarding and evaluating one's thoughts and outwardly being amenable and personable.. being fruitful to others means helping and encouraging others, doing all what one can to make the lot of others more bearable, helping them to thrive; family, friends, communities.

2/ We should not believe in divine punishment in this life, i.e. removal of fear

3/ We should treat all others as equals as God blessed all people equally.

4/ we should discard religious custom and tradition and encourage others to do the same.

3/ We have freewill

4/ We should multiply

5/ We should avoid eating live animals

6/ we should not have fear nor guilt,

The ultimate conclusion to this thesis is one that will cause consternation in religious circles. Religion was a human creation that is both unnecessary, inasmuch as humanity does not need it and misleading inasmuch as neither Judaism Christianity nor Islam gives us the true nature of our relationship with God. indeed, if anything they take us far away from our Creator. We kill in the name of God, we fight wars in the name of God, we bow down, pray and worship God in different ways and yet God never instructed us to do any of these things. The only true path for each and every one of us to return to God is to abandon religion forever We have proof that praying to God will not ease our pain, We have no proof that not praying to God will incur God's vengeance. But we do know that once there was a God who made a promise and gave a blessing. Learn the significance of this and you will be set free​

Sad.

 

[Ras]

View: https://youtu.be/DnBjyzohOVg

 

[S.Holmes]

View: https://youtu.be/DnBjyzohOVg

I haven't watched this yet (just a sneak preview), but if this is about the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant by Ron Wyatt I'm really looking forward to it. About 8 years ago I remember getting chills when I heard that he had found blood on the Mercy Seat directly under where the middle cross stood. The earthquake that occurred at Yeshua's death made a crevice or crack running from the base of the cross down to the Ark hidden deep inside of Golgatha and His blood flowed onto the side of the Ark which had been reserved for Holy annointing. (The opposite side was where the animal blood was applied for many generations previously until the Ark disappeared/was hidden.)
Amazing, and also sad that the people who presently own the temple mount (Muslims and Jews) don't want that information to get out.

 

[Ras]

I haven't watched this yet (just a sneak preview), but if this is about the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant by Ron Wyatt I'm really looking forward to it. About 8 years ago I remember getting chills when I heard that he had found blood on the Mercy Seat directly under where the middle cross stood. The earthquake that occurred at Yeshua's death made a crevice or crack running from the base of the cross down to the Ark hidden deep inside of Golgatha and His blood flowed onto the side of the Ark which had been reserved for Holy annointing. (The opposite side was where the animal blood was applied for many generations previously until the Ark disappeared/was hidden.)
Amazing, and also sad that the people who presently own the temple mount (Muslims and Jews) don't want that information to get out.

Here's a good video about Wyatt's discoveries. It features his discovery of the Ark.


View: https://youtu.be/PIpvIVLQ2Dk

 

[Perry Staltic]

Ron Wyatt sounds like a fraud.

Fake News In Biblical Archaeology

 In a world of fake news and internet hoaxes it’s important to carefully check your sources before you inadvertently spread misinformation. The world of archaeology is no exception to sensationali…

biblearchaeologyreport.com

Ron Wyatt, the "Indiana Jones" of the SDA Church | Christian Courier

www.christiancourier.com

 

[lionel]

Sad.

How so? It is the most simple beautiful and liberating belief and it is also pretty hard to argue with

 

[Momma]

How so? It is the most simple beautiful and liberating belief and it is also pretty hard to argue with

I will reread it again as i have time (ie: no work or children around).

 

[S.Holmes]

I love this forum, but lurk in the shadows. Learning really and so many thanks to many of you and esp @haidut . I've been Peaty for years . Don;t know much science but (the Abrahamic variety) God, I do know about
I wrote this years ago. Excuse any patronizing language I should have rewritten it . Throw away your self-fulfilling revelation fiction!

God & The Great Reset

Repositioning God & the God Concept for the Great Reset

The destruction of the Infantile Myths of Good and Evil


By Lionel R


“We have proof that praying to God will not ease our pain

We have no proof that not praying to God will incur God's vengeance

But we do know that once there was a God who made a promise and gave a blessing. Learn the significance of this and you will be set free “

​

Even despite a pandemic, in the middle of a disastrous financial crisis, with war raging, and new technology being wielded about widly , humanity has a way out . It is called the Great Reset. It depends on science and technocracy, it is guded by the brightest and most intelligent minds. It could work to the advantage of all BUT it faces many barriers, not least of which is the accusation, borne out out fear and despair that the Great reset is some evil satanic force out to capture freedom and our souls. Religious fear lurks behind many of the accusations, that somehow The Great Reset goes against the very will of God. It is this that I am concerned about and it is this that I have a solution for and the solution is by rational theological logic, if such a thing can be thought to exist .

So who am I ? I have been a seeker of God and an amteur student of theology for 50 yeats, Raised a jew, but trabvelled far and wide. I understand only too well religious fear and guilt and how belief in god holds back so many from realizing their true potential. I am positing that we need to revisit the Bible to get its true message and once found we need to get it out there. Remember that we are not interested here as to trying to prove whether God exists etc, w\useless time consuming questions. Rather we are seeking go re=-examine religious beliefs with a more sciengific nd logical mind than is the usual and actually when we do this, the findings are rather startling . More than this, the findings are useful, potentially helpful in dealing with cases of religious fear and guilt and quite frankly liberating and will be so for many. Not only do we see the true nature of God we also can despense with the childish myths of gooad ane evil and get off the duality once and for all.



I’m going to use a join the dots approach, so let’s jump straight in Where should we start?. Most world religious conflicts are to do with Abrahamic religions and this is the best place to start ie with the oldest account we have ie with genesis, the first book of the Bible Just two things at the outset to reiterate

It does not matter whether the reader of this believes in God or not. One must not lose sight of the fact that millions of people do and are incapacitated by that belief as a result Incapacitated by fear, prejudice, hatred, custom, rivalry etc. Secondly it does not matter who exactly God is, rather it is His nature that is important for humanity to understand so we are not going to be discussing Enki and Enlil or some combination of the two Sumerian Gods, hence Elohim We do know that The Sumerian story of the Flood is the oldest legend of that event and that Jewish scribes once lived in Sumer and they were fastidious about recording everything with letter by letter accuracy. Not one letter would have been mistyped, for that would have been a blasphemy!

. No, it matters not who God is. The point is that people believe in God and they wield the Bible at will. It is their sword at times, their shield at others . The WEF have been accused of going against God by the potential removal of freewill choice etc . the matter needs addressing, w\the whole concepyt of good and evil does.

Surprisingly the Old testament Bible is very clear that whilst there is a Creator, scientifically unproven of course in our times, this Creator does not get involved with, nor intervene in this world. In other words, whilst God sees all things God has given us freewill and the responsibility of dealing ourselves with the wickedness that some commit

That is not my religious opinion. It is the very Bible that tells this to us, and the purpose of this thesis summary is to show you the logic that has led to the above claim and the way in which we have all been so misled. Basically, Semitic religions have misrepresented the facts to us, and that God has not been with us in this world since Genesis

Starting at the beginning with the right Objective

It is vital to get two things absolutely correct when you are setting out to find or discover something, like the truth of things. Firstly, one must make sure one has the objective clearly defined in the mind’s eye; nothing else will do. In this thesis the main objective is the understanding of the true nature of God, and good and evil especially in relation to humanity and our world Secondly one really does have to find the beginning of things and start there

Understanding The true nature of God

For myself and I imagine millions of other around the world God is Perfection and would create and treat us all equally. God would allow us freewill but regardless of this God would have to be omnipotent omnipresent, omnipresent all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing and perfect to be God and nothing less would suffice. God would never be towards his creations, weak, indecisive, violent, destructive, vengeful, demanding of followers, praise and worship, angry and so on. Why not? Surely if God were all-powerful, God could be anything that God wishes, and this must be true but to us his creations he is as an ever-loving all-powerful parent that has blessed us with free-will. It is a difference between "could" and "would". God created our world, blessed us all to be fruitful and multiply and has no wish ever to destroy us, no matter how bad we get. At this point some people might bring up the Flood, but that will be dealt with later. God was, is and will ever be beneficial to us.

It is not easy to consider God, given the duality of our nature and our world. We live in a world of life and death, good and bad, growth and shrinkage. We may well be represented by the number two, but God is represented only by the number one. God has no duality, no blessings and curses, only blessings. While we grow and wither, God only grows. While we wax and wane, God only waxes. While we can be love and hatred, God is only love. How can this be when we are made in the image of God I hear the theist cry? It is because we are made in His image, not a carbon copy. The statement that we are created in the image of G‑d means that we were formed as a reflection of our Creator’s attributes and characteristics. This cannot be taken to mean that we literally look, feel or think like G‑d does, because He has no form and is not limited in any way. Rather, we are like a one-dimensional reflection of a real object. From the reflection we can have an inkling of the original, but the reflection is literally nothing in comparison to the original.

This is expressed in many ways: some physical, others psychological, and still others are purely in the spiritual realm for example. All other creations are doing exactly what they are programmed to do and cannot change their natures. Only the human being has the power to grow, mature and change, because he or she is a reflection of God, who is unlimited. Man was endowed with the power to think independently, to peer into the future and to make rational decisions. This is a reflection of G‑d’s infinite wisdom, but unlike God, we are flawed



Starting at the beginning. The Truth of Things

If any person attempts to seek the truth of things mid-way through an event or happenstance or at its end, then that person is no more than a fool. The beginning of things is the simplest form, the root. Everything is conceived pure or with the purest of intentions and only later gets corrupted. Note the monk who stripped of all worldly wants and desires can begin to see things for what they really are. With a firm picture in my mind’s eye of this all-powerful, ALL KNOWING AND ALL-SEEING benign creator I decided to use the Old Testament a book I have been familiar with since childhood i.e. the beginning of things to start at. I could have started anywhere I suppose, in the Old Testament, The New Testament, The Koran but no I sensibly decided to start at the beginning and I must say that as every Muslim really does believe that it was Allah who wrote the Old Testament for the Jews I doubt that Muslims would object to my using, in their eyes Allah’s first holy book. What’s more I’m going to use the part that The Jewish nation were NOT accused of tampering with, by both Muslims and Christians i.e. Genesis. I doubt Christianity would object either. After all my mission was to find God and Christianity reveres the Old Testament almost as much as the New Testament, I’m sure they would agree that the God of Genesis is God as certainly would the members of the ever-faithful and long-suffering Jewish religion.

To me anything in Genesis, i.e. the first, the beginning the original trumps verses that appear later in the Bible and we shall also see why this is true. It must also be remembered that Jewish scribes were at great pains to record everything as accurately as possible, especially in the early parts of the Bible.

I picked up my Bible turned to Genesis and began to read for the ten thousandth time, all the while hoping this time to catch a glimpse of the magnificence that is meant to be God

Adam And Eve

The story of the Creation in my opinion doesn’t do my image of the Creator enough justice and it wasn’t until Adam and Eve did I sense the benevolent magnificence of God, which can be explained thus. God made man and woman and wished to give them freewill i.e. the right and ability to make choices. You can’t descend from heaven and just give your people free-will, their awe of you will make them instant slaves.

God wanted to give Adam and Eve freewill, wanted them to be free. He warned them not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, on pain of death BUT being perfect as we have already posited God surely knew they would disobey.. God had sent one of His creations to offer the other choice to Eve i.e. to have knowledge of good and evil and all that entailed, and the serpent made it an enticing choice, to know what is good and what is not. Eve made her choice and the exit from the garden was not a punishment, it was our choice. We chose to be free of the simple life and instead chose a much more arduous and yet more fulfilling path than just tending animals in the Garden. We were not tricked. We obtained what we wanted and still do, we obtained knowledge and self-awareness. i.e. before decision was made Adam and Eve like animals had no knowledge of themselves, no ability to see themselves. Like animals they were unable to stand outside themselves and view themselves objectively. We humans have been given that gift.

Of course, you must understand this is all my interpretation of the story but I wager that you will be unable to give me another interpretation in keeping with the idea of God as perfection. God didn’t tempt Adam and Eve. For what purpose would he do that if God already knew, being so all-seeing that they would disobey? Utter illogical nonsense! Yet that is what we have been taught for centuries. Why would we assume that God is either flawed or not so powerful? There is only one vaguely relevant counter –argument to my logic and it goes like this “The Lord works in mysterious ways” Well that is not a good enough argument in my opinion.

Another question one could ask is Why God, who could have created perfection did not make us perfect. The answer is simple. In the garden of Eden, we had perfection, no worries, fear, stress, dangers and so on but we chose freewill and self-awareness. We chose the world we now live in. we have freewill and that means we are not beholden nor ruled by a higher power. We have self-awareness which means we are aware of ourselves and the world around us. Unlike an animal which is set on a simple system of surviving i.e. by eating, sleeping defecating and procreating, we humans, should have no the fear of being controlled and because of self-awareness we have higher minds and more complex thought processes. Our understanding of ourselves and our species grows ever deeper; because we have the capacity to study it. Freewill and self-awareness are two gifts from our Creator to us and religion has stolen these from us, telling us how to worship, and how to think of God. ,



The next story in The Bible is that of Cain and Abel

Cain And Abel

Cain kills his brother for offering a better sacrifice to God and God spared him, showing mercy by marking him so that no one would kill him as he wandered, banished. Again God knew that Cain would do such a thing and the mercy and compassion shown is a lesson to humanity, One could reach the conclusion that not only would God spare a murderer but also one that murders out of jealousy borne from the comparison of sacrifices made to God. If one considers the story of Cain and Abel carefully the sacrifices to appease God are less important to God than showing mercy to one who not only murders but also failed in his sacrifice.

Noah The Flood and the Nephilim.

There then follows the story of the Flood where it is made clear to us that God destroyed the Nephilim, evil creatures of abomination that were inter-breeding with us and causing the wickedness. Those that were destroyed were not humans but the spawn of the interrelationships between humanity and the Nephilim.

But it’s the chapter after the Flood that is the key part of the whole Bible.. This is where the truth of things lies and the simplest way to show anyone who studies this thesis, exactly what I have seen is to use the emphasis that the words gave to me, not the other way around. After all I wasn’t studying the words themselves nor the letters, just their meaning as spoken by Perfection.



Genesis Chapter 9

[9:1] God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth.

The flood has subsided, Noah and his sons have been saved.. All that remains are the descendants of us all Noah and his sons, the Fathers of the whole human race. God or if you are Muslim, Allah then blesses all of us, through our ancestors equally.

This is the first blessing that God was to give to all of us and it is quite remarkable. Note the lack of religious instruction. Note the lack of any conditions attached. Remember how you should be reading this with God’s perfection in your mind’s eye Ask yourself how come God made no rules on how we were to behave or worship him? At this key stage? Why is this?

God’s first and only blessing to the WHOLE of humanity carries great weight. Could it be that God could not see our future and therefore got His blessing wrong, or perhaps God forget to tell us about religious duties and made a mess of the whole opportunity. We can’t accept a God that gets it wrong, isn’t so all-powerful and makes a mess of things. that would not be God. It is more than reasonable to argue that God should be perfect, perfection. God should know all about our future and our past and tailor the blessing accordingly which clearly is what happened. We are all equally blessed, especially when God must have known that the descendants of Shem would become Semites i.e. Jews and Muslims, no more blessed, despite their religions, than the descendants of Ham or Japheth.



. But humans are not equal are we?. We are not born into materially the same set of circumstances BUT we are all equally God-blessed, through our ancestors, the ancestors of the whole world. God didn’t get it wrong God is always right The key point is that we all have the same value in the eyes of God even if our material circumstances differ wildly . Ergo an atheist is as equally blessed as a Rabbi or Imam, in the eyes of God, without any dispute. Remember this is Gods first and only blessing to the whole of humanity. God could have said, Be fruitful and multiply. Those who bow down to me and wear hats will get to the heaven, the rest hell. We could therefore conclude that God does not endorse religion. Of course, it would be argued that many later verses contain all the prescriptive elements of religion as given to God by Moses BUT there is none of it in the First Blessing. Perhaps the later parts were added or amended? That is not such a wild theory.

Following on from genesis 9:1 we read 9:2-9:4

[9:2] The fear and dread of you shall rest on every animal of the earth, and on every bird of the air, on everything that creeps on the ground, and on all the fish of the sea; into your hand they are delivered. [9:3] Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. [9:4] Only, you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its soul and blood.

The meaning is clear Don’t eat flesh with its soul and blood i.e. don’t eat live animals is sound advice and may contain a reference related to health and medicine but for now it is not one that we are concerned with..

[9:5] For your own lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning: from every animal I will require it and from human beings, each one for the blood of another, I will require a reckoning for human life.

This is a reference to the after-life and the day of Judgement No one on this Earth can prove whether or not there is an after-life but according to God who is infallible there is something more for us It would not be wild to assume that if we hold God's blessing to our hearts and be fruitful to ourselves and others we would not walk down the wrong path but it is the next verse that should make us reflect a while.

[9:6] Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person's blood be shed; for in his own image God made humankind.

God doesn’t kill nor punish us. Read the verse again…Whoever sheds the blood of man through man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God He made man.

What God is saying here is so very clear. “If you do the very worst of crimes i.e. murder then even then I am not going to intervene and cause holy fire to sweep down from the heavens." In other words God is not going to punish the murderer in this life even though he or she is acting in a manner contradictory to the Blessing where God blessed us all equally to be fruitful and multiply.. God is saying "Because humans were made in my image then it’s up to humans to try the murderer be fair as I was with Adam and Eve and Cain the murderer who killed his brother and yet I spared him. Give your murderer a fair hearing and sentence him. If you kill him then it is your right”

The implications of this are far-reaching. Anyone who kills in the name of God is not killing in the name of God at all. We were all equally blessed. As God is not orchestrating any of these killings we can see right through the phoney theology of religions that urge us to shed blood in the name of unless again one blasphemes by assuming incorrectly that God got his blessing wrong.

This verse is one of the verses used by religion to teach the philosophy of an eye for an eye i.e. they’ve killed your ancestors so you should kill them. But the verse does not mean that in any way. Look at the words and tell me how that means an eye for an eye. The often-overlooked part of the verse are the words for in the image of God He made man. The point is that God had already forgiven Adam and Eve for disobeying him and Cain for killing his brother. God had already shown us what mercy is and Noah and his Sons would have understood.

If the worst of crimes is punishable by us, not God, what about all the rest of our crimes against each other. I believe it is right to say that the punishment for these crimes would also be down to us. In fact God doesn’t seem to be involved or want to be involved in our daily life, despite what later religions preach to us and it’s the later religious nonsense that would be thrown at you if you were to dare stand up and say that we are all equally blessed and God does not punish us but then in my opinion, the later religious writings are just man-made echoes of the earlier stories and poor ones at that. What would you value more do you want the original or a poor, twisted, added to and unoriginal copy?

Of course, counter arguments to this conclusion could be ..

But in the Torah later The Israelites with God’s help killed all sorts of tribes.”

These writings came later in the Torah. God/Allah who is without error nor mistake gave us these words first and would not have changed His mind, nor contradicted himself, nor got his original words wrong. It is likely that there were embellishments but not here, not at this early and original stage, where scribes struggled so hard to write down the words correctly and without error.. Perhaps the later stories were the works of fiction. It is a well-known that the genesis chapter predates the other chapters. Another argument might be

But in Jeremiah/Isaiah/Ezekiel/Amos etc. it states...

These are not the words of God/Allah. These writings all come much later on. Another objection might be

“But it states in the new testament or the Koran”

The New testament and the Koran came much later than the Old testament, How could an-all seeing Allah/God change His mind and why would the subject place more emphasis on a later work than an earlier one. The original blessing did not state “Smite only the unbeliever or those that do not follow the ways of God". It does not ask for the help of man to clear up the sinners. It cannot be explained in any other way. By omission, God had said nothing to us about rape, or robbery, or fraud, or sexual relations with the same sex or anything else. That is because God made it so clear to us here by simple omission that all other acts are subject to the law of Man. He gave us that freedom.

. According to what God said we have the right to kill, those who murder unequivocally. This is big news and directly counters the commandment “Thou shall not kill”, but it is there in Genesis in black and white. The next verses are equally important



[9:7] And you, be fruitful and multiply, abound on the earth and multiply in it." [9:8] Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him, [9:9] "As for me, I am establishing my covenant with you and your descendants after you, [9:10] and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the domestic animals, and every animal of the earth with you, as many as came out of the ark. [9:11] I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth." [9:12] God said, "This is the sign of the covenant that I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all future generations:

Note the words used "You and your descendants after you" and "For all future generations"

It is very clear here that the Covenant and by implication the Blessing were both everlasting, for all time, not to be changed, altered nor corrected.by God. After all an Infallible being, with perfect future sight making such important announcements, would not get them wrong or make an error. we are eternally blessed and for eternity we have been promised never to be destroyed. A far cry from what the three Abrahamic faiths would have you believe.

A Reverend once told me that this verse meant that and I quote “God will never destroy us ever again by water and it reminded me of the row I once had with a well-known Rabbi who insisted the same until I pointed out that its says right at the end “.For everlasting generations We are going to be everlasting according to God. So, if we add that to the nonsense that the priest and rabbi said “God will never destroy us by water again in Gods covenant for everlasting generations. What rubbish! God doesn’t decide not to destroy us with floods leaving other means open, if that was the case we wouldn't last for everlasting generations…God promises never to destroy us ever again for everlasting generations, so what on earth do we need religion for

I can see years of guilt and misery melt away from the God-fearing guilt-ridden when they read this whatever their religion. God doesn’t avenge, God doesn’t destroy God doesn’t kill, God doesn’t command us to destroy each other. God promised for everlasting generations never again to hurt us so what on earth are all these wars about in the Middle–East then?. Nothing to do with God that is for certain.



[9:13] I have set my bow in the clouds, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. [9:14] When I bring clouds over the earth and the bow is seen in the clouds, [9:15] I will remember my covenant that is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. [9:16] When the bow is in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth." [9:17] God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant that I have established between me and all flesh that is on the earth." [9:18] The sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Ham was the father of Canaan. [9:19] These three were the sons of Noah; and from these the whole earth was peopled.



It is an everlasting covenant with a blessing that is for all time from the time of Noah. This is the oldest and most original covenant we have with God. This is God’s promise to us. These commands from God are the ones we must keep........ An all-knowing all-seeing God would have known that we would break this Covenant but God did not add in caveats nor details of what would happen, not if but when we broke this Covenant by shedding blood. The Covenant still stands. The words are clear.

It is essential to understand that an Infallible God makes and Infallible Covenant and that everything that follows on in the Bible after this Covenant is just the words of man.

BUT there is more. “Everlasting generations” means that God will never destroy us ever again. Add that to the blessing and you will understand that God is not for killing in this world and that no human can dare to stand up and say that god or Allah demands that they should kill. That IS blasphemy. Anyone who kills in the name of God is a liar

.

To summarise we have a God who tells us to rule ourselves, who has blessed us to be fruitful and multiply and who has promised never again to destroy us for everlasting generations, so we can say without fear of contradiction that there is no God involvement in this world and anyone who states that there is a liar.



We have stopped at genesis 9:19 This is not the end of the Bible by any means BUT it is the first and last time God blessed all of us together. After this we get a nasty little story about Noah getting drunk and then we have a God of Abraham appearing, far more tribal in tone, far less universal and lacking the Perfection of God that we have been seeking so much so that we start to feel that this new God is not God at all but a tribal invention favouring one set of his creation over another and with a whole new set of rules. It doesn’t sit right. God had made no mention of any of these new developments when he gave us His Blessing and promise and suddenly God is a Hebrew one. The poor Canaanites were slaughtered, but were they not also blessed and covenanted with through their ancestor Shem, never to be destroyed.

What happened to the God of Noah? Did he disappear behind some rainbows or did the later stories take the concept of God for their own You can see the implications of this but that is for another book .



Conclusions

I have shown the reader that even the Bible itself points to the undeniable truth that there is no God that operates in this world. We are right to be secular, to live in a secular society and to treat others as equal. We are right not to be afraid of God or afraid of being punished for being naughty, because even murderers are ours to deal with and not God’s. So much fear and guilt caused by religion and now our very way of life is being challenged by an image of a bloodthirsty God driving the dark forces of terrorism. Only by cutting God out of the equation altogether and side-lining the Semitic religions can we hope for a safe world for our children.

Should you want to know whether there are any prescriptions to live in this world from the above then consider these

1/We should be fruitful to self and others. We should encourage fruitfulness in self and others. Being fruitful to self means adopting the mental and physical condition of looking after oneself, guarding and evaluating one's thoughts and outwardly being amenable and personable.. being fruitful to others means helping and encouraging others, doing all what one can to make the lot of others more bearable, helping them to thrive; family, friends, communities.

2/ We should not believe in divine punishment in this life, i.e. removal of fear

3/ We should treat all others as equals as God blessed all people equally.

4/ we should discard religious custom and tradition and encourage others to do the same.

3/ We have freewill

4/ We should multiply

5/ We should avoid eating live animals

6/ we should not have fear nor guilt,

The ultimate conclusion to this thesis is one that will cause consternation in religious circles. Religion was a human creation that is both unnecessary, inasmuch as humanity does not need it and misleading inasmuch as neither Judaism Christianity nor Islam gives us the true nature of our relationship with God. indeed, if anything they take us far away from our Creator. We kill in the name of God, we fight wars in the name of God, we bow down, pray and worship God in different ways and yet God never instructed us to do any of these things. The only true path for each and every one of us to return to God is to abandon religion forever We have proof that praying to God will not ease our pain, We have no proof that not praying to God will incur God's vengeance. But we do know that once there was a God who made a promise and gave a blessing. Learn the significance of this and you will be set free​

"We should avoid eating live animals"? What does this mean? Are you a vegetarian?

 

[joaquin]

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. MATT 24:36

The word knoweth in this passage can mean "makes known".

And the phrase "day and hour" means the specific time that an event will happen.

And this was not referring to the end of the cosmos but to the end of the Mosaic dispensation which culminated in AD 70.

To all those reading my comments: I probably will not respond to your objections to what I've written above. I will see the little bell notification that someone has replied but I will probably not even read your words. There are way too many dogmatics on this forum and I've spent 25 years already dealing with kneejerks that don't look deeper into the bible but insist on being spoonfed. The information is out there if you are willing to look and learn and not accept the first hundred results that come up as they always parrot the wrong answers.

 

[S.Holmes]

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. MATT 24:36

The word knoweth in this passage can mean "makes known".

And the phrase "day and hour" means the specific time that an event will happen.

And this was not referring to the end of the cosmos but to the end of the Mosaic dispensation which culminated in AD 70.

To all those reading my comments: I probably will not respond to your objections to what I've written above. I will see the little bell notification that someone has replied but I will probably not even read your words. There are way too many dogmatics on this forum and I've spent 25 years already dealing with kneejerks that don't look deeper into the bible but insist on being spoonfed. The information is out there if you are willing to look and learn and not accept the first hundred results that come up as they always parrot the wrong answers.

This makes sense. Maybe the problem is that most people READ scripture but neglect to STUDY it, and then let their pastor who got his degree from a futurist bible college tell them what it says.

 

[TeslaFan]

This makes sense. Maybe the problem is that most people READ scripture but neglect to STUDY it, and then let their pastor who got his degree from a futurist bible college tell them what it says.

True, and studying is sometimes complicated by translations and organization of "chapters" and "quotes". There is no such thing as Matthew 24:36 because there is no chapter number 24 and there is no quote number 36. It flows like this:

"Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away but about that day or hour no one knows not even the angels in heaven nor the Son but only the Father"

One can interpret that anyway one's heart desires. I personally don't think He is talking about what most people assume He is talking about, which is driven by breakdown of that sentence in two.

 

[S.Holmes]

True, and studying is sometimes complicated by translations and organization of "chapters" and "quotes". There is no such thing as Matthew 24:36 because there is no chapter number 24 and there is no quote number 36. It flows like this:

"Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away but about that day or hour no one knows not even the angels in heaven nor the Son but only the Father"

One can interpret that anyway one's heart desires. I personally don't think He is talking about what most people assume He is talking about, which is driven by breakdown of that sentence in two.

I agree. The story is so simple yet profound. When we studied with our daughters' husbands and the light bulb came on one of them asked (rhetorically) how Christians had missed something so obvious for so many years. They were both bible scholars in their own right... one the son of a Baptist minister. Like me, my husband, and adult children, they remain open minded but have never looked back.

 

[S.Holmes]

I agree. The story is so simple yet profound. When we studied with our daughters' husbands and the light bulb came on one of them asked (rhetorically) how Christians had missed something so obvious for so many years. They were both bible scholars in their own right... one the son of a Baptist minister. Like me, my husband, and adult children, they remain open minded but have never looked back.

Matthew 24 is a sneak preview of The Revelation of John. The entire chapter is speaking of one event. Most who read it have to split it into two parts so it matches their preconceived eschatological paradigm.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Matthew 24 is a sneak preview of The Revelation of John. The entire chapter is speaking of one event. Most who read it have to split it into two parts so it matches their preconceived eschatological paradigm.

It actually addresses 3 distinct questions the disciples asked Jesus.

1) Tell us when these things will be, ie, the destruction of the temple
2) What is the sign of your arrival (2nd coming)
3) What is the sign of the completion of the age? (which age? The end of the age of Judea, or the end of the age of the nations? Both?)

 

[feedandseed]

The problem with "Israel came back which begins the birth pangs" is that "Israel" is not related to the biblical Israel. Contemporary Jews are not related to the biblical Israelites. When the bible was written "Israel" would not have referred to anything resembling the modern state of """Israel""" and as such its establishment is actually completely meaningless.

Really obvious seeing as modern Jews are descendants of the southern kingdom of "Judah" and not of the original Israelite diaspora. (Which took place following invasion by Babylon) Modern descendants of the BIBLICAL kingdom of Israel trace their lineage through the biblical figures Manasseh and Ephraim, not their uncle Judah.