Amish Mechanics' Laug

[AmishMechanic]

OK, I've just purchased some TyroMax! I was reluctant, because I know Ray has said that desiccated thyroid has to be ingested, and that topical application won't work—but people seem to be getting great results from it.

Maybe he meant that not all of the desiccated thyroids content would be absorbed?

Also, DMSO is a potent skin barrier transporter. We use it A LOT in equine medicine. Topically, IV and via GNT (naso-gastric tube). Horsemen use it topically all the time on their horses and themselves. I am always warning them to carefully wash the skin off with warm water before applying.

"Don't want bug repellent getting drug into that horses joint do ya" Tex? Didn't think so..."

I don't use it on myself that much because of the nasty garlic after-taste I get. And the smell reminds me of death. When we had a huge outbreak of west nile virus, every horse in the hospital got liters of DMSO. Many did not make it (mostly through lack of funds to continue treatments). The smell of exhaled DMSO hung in the air for a quarter of a mile all around. Ugh.

 

[bodacious]

Also, DMSO is a potent skin barrier transporter. We use it A LOT in equine medicine. Topically, IV and via GNT (naso-gastric tube). Horsemen use it topically all the time on their horses and themselves. I am always warning them to carefully wash the skin off with warm water before applying.

That makes a lot of sense—thank you!

 

[tara]

The real question is, is water by itself estrogenic? Are some of the benefits from diluting orange juice with water from raised estrogen? I dunno

My guess is the distinction is about excess or adequate water: if you need it, it's not stressful; if you drink much more than you need, and metabolism is already struggling and/or mineral deficient and having trouble controlling the excess water well, that's when there's a problem?

 

[AmishMechanic]

My guess is the distinction is about excess or adequate water: if you need it, it's not stressful; if you drink much more than you need, and metabolism is already struggling and/or mineral deficient and having trouble controlling the excess water well, that's when there's a problem?

Not sure about over-hydration but my renal physiology professor told us once that it was cracking him up to watch all of the students walking around, drinking so much water. He told us that a humans capacity to tolerate dehydration is very, very small. Smaller than most animals. He said therefore it is next to impossible to withstand even the tiniest amount of "dehydration" making it almost impossible to become dehydrated willingly. Our bodies set point is so strongly fixed, it will not allow much in the way of dehydration.

Over hydration leading to diuresis will definitely wash you out of your electrolytes and I would suppose that would register as a stressful event.

 

[tara]

He said therefore it is next to impossible to withstand even the tiniest amount of "dehydration" making it almost impossible to become dehydrated willingly. Our bodies set point is so strongly fixed, it will not allow much in the way of dehydration.

It may be true that we are generally very unlikely to tolerate dangerous dehydration if we have water available. But I have experience of having to remember to drink enough - and had unpleasant symptoms from forgetting, even if they weren't immediately life threatening.
I agree about the risk of washing out too many electrolytes - I think I've been on this end of the problem too, and one of my people got dangerously hyponatremic a while ago.
There can be issues other than dehydration, too, right? Like highly concentrated urine posing increased risk of kidney stones etc?

The general promotion of drinking lots of water got me for several years, and messed up my natural sense of thirst, which I'm gradually regaining. My current approach is that if (clean) water tastes bad that probably means I don't need it. When it tastes good I probably do. But I can't always tell until I taste it.

 

[AmishMechanic]

It may be true that we are generally very unlikely to tolerate dangerous dehydration if we have water available. But I have experience of having to remember to drink enough - and had unpleasant symptoms from forgetting, even if they weren't immediately life threatening.
I agree about the risk of washing out too many electrolytes - I think I've been on this end of the problem too, and one of my people got dangerously hyponatremic a while ago.
There can be issues other than dehydration, too, right? Like highly concentrated urine posing increased risk of kidney stones etc?

The general promotion of drinking lots of water got me for several years, and messed up my natural sense of thirst, which I'm gradually regaining. My current approach is that if (clean) water tastes bad that probably means I don't need it. When it tastes good I probably do. But I can't always tell until I taste it.

I think his point to us was that it is impossible to get to even a small degree of dehydration. You would need to be unconscious to arrive at dangerous dehydration, according to him. Our set point is just that sensitive. Yup, you will feel horrible before there is true dehydration occurring.

Even when I thought I was drinking a lot of water, as when I was training to compete, my fellow competitors told me it was not enough. I just could not drink more, it made me noxious.

 

[tara]

Yup, you will feel horrible before there is true dehydration occurring.

If you are feeling horrible, and water resolves it, why would you not call this at least mild 'real' dehydration?
Drs often don't take any issue seriously until you are about 2/3 dead.

 

[AmishMechanic]

If you are feeling horrible, and water resolves it, why would you not call this at least mild 'real' dehydration?

Drs often don't take any issue seriously until you are about 2/3 dead.

Clinical dehydration for most mammals is considered at or greater than 4% of body weight. Anything below that is easily corrected with drinking something. Once you get above 4% one will start to have clinical symptoms beyond simple thirst. In animals, my first clue is dry mucous membranes and a slower CRT. That is usually when they are in a 6% deficit. As I understand, people at that level of dehydration are pretty uncomfortable animals not so much, seemingly.

I think there is a tendency to use the term dehydration a bit loosely. If my tech tells me that a patient is dehydrated, I expect it to be at a clinically significant level ~ >5-6% and IV or SQ or forced oral fluids are administered quickly to resolve the deficit.

At one physique show, after dehydrating myself on purpose to pull the water out from under my skin to enhance muscle definition, (crazy I know but it was interesting), I lost 10 pounds over night. I know that because I GAINED that in 24hrs after the show when I rehydrated! Add the pizza and ice cream celebration and I think that meant that I was considered in "Mild Clinical Dehydration" at @4-5% deficit at show time. And I had to work really, really hard to get there!

Doctors not even looking at you unless you're 75% dead already.

LOL! You are quite right!
But I will tell you, the majority of patients (and small animal pet owners) greatly exaggerate their problems and issues. Then under accentuate real problems at the same time. It's a real tango and can wear you out. I can schedule all the time I need (I am the practice owner) and I am already programed to ask plenty of "creative" questions to reveal the real truth and the details I need. My college actually required medical students to shadow veterinary students so that they could learn how to increase their awareness in the exam room. Animals cant "tell" you their story or "answer" you questions, but if you use your ears, eyes, sense of touch and smell (many times ), they tell you plenty.

 

[Blossom]

My college actually required medical students to shadow veterinary students so that they could learn how to increase their awareness in the exam room. Animals cant "tell" you their story or "answer" you questions, but if you use your ears, eyes, sense of touch and smell (many times ), they tell you plenty.

Ahhh, the smells. That's really cool AmishMechanic. I remember about ten years ago wishing I could find a people doctor as competent as my veterinarian.

 

[AmishMechanic]

Ahhh, the smells. That's really cool AmishMechanic. I remember about ten years ago wishing I could find a people doctor as competent as my veterinarian.

Yeah, I get that from clients all of the time. My colleagues are pretty cool folks.

I have diagnosed sooooo many people with hypothyroid over the years at my practice. I send them to an endocrinologist and low and behold... I think I was the only vet ordering free T4 and T3 + TSH on a thyroid blood profile for dogs. I may add prolactin.

I have had many folks loose weight when they follow their dogs prescription for diet that I hand to them! One gal lost over 35 lbs. Her doctor almost slapped her silly when she proudly told him that she had lost all the weight eating what the vet had prescribed for her dog! Low PUFA (I made the grain PUFA= bad connection years ago), no grains, fruits, cooked green veggies. I used to suggest human grade fish/krill oil, but I only suggest that if they are not going to restrict the other PUFA's. I figure the 3's may help balance out the 6/9's...? Maybe. I am not convinced yet. Maybe I should just ask them to add grass fed butter to the crappy kibble. I'll knock back the cooked greens a bit and nix the plain greek yogurt. I will suggest smaller meals. Although canines and felines did evolve to binge eat and may have a more resistant GI to overload. I started two old dogs on daily aspirin last week with a good client. The horses as well. We will see how that helps.

Ya know, today was my cooked liver for lunch day. I still have not acquired the taste for it despite smothering it in caramelized onions.

 

[bodacious]

I have diagnosed sooooo many people with hypothyroid over the years at my practice. I send them to an endocrinologist and low and behold... I think I was the only vet ordering free T4 and T3 + TSH on a thyroid blood profile for dogs. I may add prolactin.

I'm not even kidding this is practically what happened to me.

I'd been reading Peat, following Danny Roddy etc. for a few months before finally taking the hint and getting labs done.

I ordered a prolactin test because I had a hunch that I had high prolactin (low libido, anxiety, thinning hair) and low thyroid (low energy, real difficulty finishing a full lifting session).

On the day that I got my prolactin labs back, my friend who is a pretty successful vet approached me and (delicately) explained that she had observed symptoms that would imply high prolactin and hypothyroidism. My GP, on the other hand, said all of my labs are normal (despite my recent prolactin being 30+).

Vet:1 — GP: 0

Go figure.

@AmishMechanic—If you have time, I'd really value your thoughts on my recent labs and if you could offer any suggestions (other than plenty of walks and belly-rubs)

 

[AmishMechanic]

I'm not even kidding this is practically what happened to me.

@AmishMechanic—If you have time, I'd really value your thoughts on my recent labs and if you could offer any suggestions (other than plenty of walks and belly-rubs)

That panel does not reflect a young heathy male profile. Your thyroid therefore HPA axis is stressed.
I agree with DraReg's comments and suggestions. How's your resting HR and BBT?

Following Dr. Peat's diet recommendations is a key place to start I think. And, I do not know how much you are training in the gym, but you may need to take a break and just focus on keeping the muscle, not increasing it. If you are a gym rat by nature, that could be very stressful (like a Shepard not being allowed to chase the sheep!) so if that is the case go to the gym but go lighter and do not get out of breath.

Walks and belly rubs, especially by someone you really like, would be great therapy!!!

 

[bodacious]

Thank you for your feedback.

How's your resting HR and BBT?

RHR is seldom higher than 55. I was actually genuinely sad when it crept above 50.

My temperature in the morning can be as low as 35.5C (95.9F) and creeps up to 36.6C (97.88F) throughout the day.

Both of these are confusing metrics for me, because I'm from a training background where a low RHR is considered a very good thing, and confirmed by my doctor.
My GP took my temp two weeks ago because I told her it was low. It was about 36.6C (97.52F) (ear temp) which she shrugged and said "see, normal".

I'm slowly losing my mind over the conflicting information.

And, I do not know how much you are training in the gym, but you may need to take a break and just focus on keeping the muscle, not increasing it

I've backed way off training for the last few months, mostly because I had to as I was starting to get minor panick attacks during hard training sessions. These days I'm 2/3 times a week, mostly calisthenics.

belly rubs, especially by someone you really like

Got that part covered :)

 

[AmishMechanic]

Thank you for your feedback.



RHR is seldom higher than 55. I was actually genuinely sad when it crept above 50.

My temperature in the morning can be as low as 35.5C (95.9F) and creeps up to 36.6C (97.88F) throughout the day.

Both of these are confusing metrics for me, because I'm from a training background where a low RHR is considered a very good thing, and confirmed by my doctor.
My GP took my temp two weeks ago because I told her it was low. It was about 36.6C (97.52F) (ear temp) which she shrugged and said "see, normal".

I'm slowly losing my mind over the conflicting information.



I've backed way off training for the last few months, mostly because I had to as I was starting to get minor panick attacks during hard training sessions. These days I'm 2/3 times a week, mostly calisthenics.



Got that part covered :)

I am certain that you know Dr. Peats thoughts on having such a low body temperature and heart rate. How YOU respond and react to this data is up to you. Dr. Pete gives his physiologic reasons as to why this is not sustainable for health and conventional wisdom has their take on the matter. Personally, I have found conventional wisdoms reasons to have too many holes and I feel that it is just "lazy"medicine because it is not "sexy" medicine to be talking about resting HR and body temperatures; Not a lot of $$$ to be made by advancing studies as to why some peoples HR and BBT is low.

Your metabolism is shot and I am assuming that you do not feel all that great. If you think that a s you age it will get easier to feel better, you are in for a depressing ride. LOL!

Adding thyroid will do no harm. Adding aspirin to help your thyroid will do no harm. Taking ground egg shells will do no harm. Ridding your diet of PUFA will do no harm. Eating more fructose will do no harm. Eating Liver and some shell fish will do no harm (unless you eat some bad oysters...).

I would suggest that when your temps and pulse come up, you will be feeling pretty good. :)

 

[DaveFoster]

You mispelled log.

I guess horse mechanics don't do math.

Progesterone helps you retain sodium. 5-10 mg every hour or so max.

 

[AmishMechanic]

You mispelled log.

I guess horse mechanics don't do math.

Progesterone helps you retain sodium. 5-10 mg every hour or so.

Horse mechanics are bad at typing on the run!
You don't like my spelling of laug???

 

[DaveFoster]

Horse mechanics are bad at typing on the run!
You don't like my spelling of laug???

I don't think Peat would approve. He's a stickler.

 

[AmishMechanic]

I don't think Peat would approve. He's a stickler.

Log just sounds like a big ol' turd to me. Seriously.

 

[DaveFoster]

Log just sounds like a big ol' turd to me. Seriously.

You really are a vet.

 

[tara]

I'm slowly losing my mind over the conflicting information.

I can understand that.
I found it really helpful to keep reading the reasons Peat holds his views, and his explanations for why they sometimes conflict with mainstream medicine and 'health' culture. It may also help to read some others who explain things at a deeper level. The more of a grasp you get of physiology, the more chance you have to assess conflicting claims. Not that anyone can learn everything, and know it all for certain, but it can help a bit. You don't have to take anything on blind faith. You can also try things and see what effect they have for you personally.