11-keto DHT - Adrenosterone Derivative For Lab/R&D Use

[Elron]

which of the two would synergize best with dianabol and npp?

 

[furball]

Thinking about this like a gear head is basically pointless.

At the stage you're injecting 500+mg of gear a week, minute details like these kind of androgens become moot. There is no wariness of shut down etc. So really, you are better off taking masterone at 200mg a week, and doing it more 'traditionally'

I think this kind of use, especially in the performance enhancement context has enormous potential.

Rather than blasting yourself with gear, then recovering from the stress and abuse. Instead you improve metabolism and supplement androgens enough to create big training performance increases over time, with no shut down. You can walk sown both roads pointing in the same direction

I would posit that in terms of strength sports, the preg dhea dht compound + thyroid would be incredibly powerful. Especially if you monitor heart/temp in response to training loads. Using Peat methods to assess stress and recover from it is a whole new ball game.

Sorry to tangent off to PED and steroid use. I just wish to point out that there is no point doing things this way if you're gonna use drugs like npp.

If however, you are sick of long term steroid use for sports, and want to instead support healthy metabolism + training, then the preg+dhea+dht/andro mixes sound incredibly promising.

 

[johnwester130]

Why is this 30 dollars more expensive than Androsterone ?

 

[equusvult]

As promised, I am releasing a steroid that may be of interest to some people on the forum. It is a variation of the well-known steroid DHT that Peat has written about and I have also posted quite a few studies on. The steroid belongs to the group of the so-called keto-steroids and AFAIK this is the first time it is being sold to the general public. Some websites sell a steroid called 11-ketotestosterone (11-keto T), which is a precursor to 11-keto DHT. Both 11-keto T and 11-keto DHT are legal within the USA (for now). How long will that legal status persist I simply don't know.
The few studies that have been done on 11-keto DHT demonstrates it has the same androgenic activity / potency as DHT, but its role in mammals is virtually unknown. In fish however, 11-keto T and 11-keto DHT are the primary androgens driving the male phenotype. What is known is that 11-keto DHT has a much longer half-life than DHT and as such has the potential to exert androgenic activity even with very sporadic administration (2-3 times a week) as opposed to the daily administration needed with steroids like T and DHT. The half-life of 11-keto DHT appears to be on the order of 36 hours.

2016 New Investigator: Karl Storbeck | Bioanalysis Zone
"...We have discovered a novel pathway for the metabolism of the steroid 11β-hydroxyandrostenedione (11OHA4), a major product of human steroidogenesis which has been ignored for decades. We showed that 11OHA4 is the precursor to the potent androgens 11-ketotestosterone (11KT) and 11-ketodihydrotestosterone (11KDHT). Using a combination of UPLC–MS and UPLC–MS/MS techniques we confirmed the existence of a number of novel steroids in this pathway. We have since shown that 11KDHT is as potent as DHT, previously considered to be most potent natural androgen, a finding which has significant implications for our understanding of androgen dependent diseases such as castration-resistant prostate cancer and diseases of androgen excess, such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia and polycystic ovary syndrome."

11β-Hydroxydihydrotestosterone and 11-ketodihydrotestosterone, novel C19 steroids with androgenic activity: a putative role in castration resistant... - PubMed - NCBI
"...The pathway was validated in the androgen-dependent prostate cancer cell line, LNCaP. Androgen receptor (AR) transactivation studies showed that while 11KT and 11OHDHT act as a partial AR agonists, 11KDHT is a full AR agonist exhibiting similar activity to DHT at 1nM. Our data demonstrates that, while 11OHA4 has negligible androgenic activity, its metabolism to 11KT and 11KDHT yields androgenic compounds which may be implicated, together with A4 and DHEA(S), in driving CRPC in the absence of testicular T."

An investigation into the androgenic activity of 11-ketotestosterone and 11-ketodihydrotestosterone
"...This study is the first to show that 11KT and 11KDHT are metabolized at a significantly lower rate in both cell lines when compared to T and DHT, respectively, thus likely accounting for their apparent increased activity. The data clearly shows that 11KT and 11KDHT are potent and efficacious androgens, comparable to T and DHT. Most importantly, the findings highlight the fact that not only can 11KT and 11KDHT activate the androgen axis, and in so doing drive cell growth, but that these steroids have the potential to remain active for longer than T and DHT due to a reduced rate of metabolism. Collectively, the data demonstrates that 11KT and 11KDHT likely play a vital, but overlooked, role in the development and progression of CRPC."

"...A slower metabolic rate was observed in the VCaP cells. For example, DHT and T substrates were depleted in 24 hours in LNCaP cells, while complete metabolism of DHT and T substrates in VCaP cells was only achieved after 48 hours (Fig. 3.16). Nevertheless, the same trend was observed between the respective steroids. DHT was metabolised signicantly faster (63% in 12 hours) than the same concentration of 11KDHT (17% in 12 hours). After 24 hours, only 9% of DHT remained, compared to 60% of 11KDHT. While DHT was completely metabolised after 48 hours, 21% of the 11KDHT remained detectable after 72 hours."

The units listed on the label are just for measurement purposes. They do not indicate suggested or optimal dose. Please note that similar to the products sold by companies like BluePeptides, this product if for lab/research use only. The product can be ordered from the link below:
IdeaLabs Online Store - Worldwide Ordering And Delivery - Laboratory Research Chemicals

*******************************************************************************
11-keto DHT, also known as 11-ketoandrostanolone, is a keto-steroid present naturally in small amounts in a mammals body. Its physiological role in mammals is currently unknown, however, in fish 11-keto DHT is the primary androgen driving the male phenotype. In vitro research suggests that 11-keto DHT binds to and activates the androgen receptor with the same potency / affinity as the mammalian androgen DHT.

Drops per container: about 250
Each drop contains the following ingredients:

11-keto DHT: 1 mg

Other ingredients: DMSO, ethanol
*******************************************************************************

As promised, I am releasing a steroid that may be of interest to some people on the forum. It is a variation of the well-known steroid DHT that Peat has written about and I have also posted quite a few studies on. The steroid belongs to the group of the so-called keto-steroids and AFAIK this is the first time it is being sold to the general public. Some websites sell a steroid called 11-ketotestosterone (11-keto T), which is a precursor to 11-keto DHT. Both 11-keto T and 11-keto DHT are legal within the USA (for now). How long will that legal status persist I simply don't know.
The few studies that have been done on 11-keto DHT demonstrates it has the same androgenic activity / potency as DHT, but its role in mammals is virtually unknown. In fish however, 11-keto T and 11-keto DHT are the primary androgens driving the male phenotype. What is known is that 11-keto DHT has a much longer half-life than DHT and as such has the potential to exert androgenic activity even with very sporadic administration (2-3 times a week) as opposed to the daily administration needed with steroids like T and DHT. The half-life of 11-keto DHT appears to be on the order of 36 hours.

2016 New Investigator: Karl Storbeck | Bioanalysis Zone
"...We have discovered a novel pathway for the metabolism of the steroid 11β-hydroxyandrostenedione (11OHA4), a major product of human steroidogenesis which has been ignored for decades. We showed that 11OHA4 is the precursor to the potent androgens 11-ketotestosterone (11KT) and 11-ketodihydrotestosterone (11KDHT). Using a combination of UPLC–MS and UPLC–MS/MS techniques we confirmed the existence of a number of novel steroids in this pathway. We have since shown that 11KDHT is as potent as DHT, previously considered to be most potent natural androgen, a finding which has significant implications for our understanding of androgen dependent diseases such as castration-resistant prostate cancer and diseases of androgen excess, such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia and polycystic ovary syndrome."

11β-Hydroxydihydrotestosterone and 11-ketodihydrotestosterone, novel C19 steroids with androgenic activity: a putative role in castration resistant... - PubMed - NCBI
"...The pathway was validated in the androgen-dependent prostate cancer cell line, LNCaP. Androgen receptor (AR) transactivation studies showed that while 11KT and 11OHDHT act as a partial AR agonists, 11KDHT is a full AR agonist exhibiting similar activity to DHT at 1nM. Our data demonstrates that, while 11OHA4 has negligible androgenic activity, its metabolism to 11KT and 11KDHT yields androgenic compounds which may be implicated, together with A4 and DHEA(S), in driving CRPC in the absence of testicular T."

An investigation into the androgenic activity of 11-ketotestosterone and 11-ketodihydrotestosterone
"...This study is the first to show that 11KT and 11KDHT are metabolized at a significantly lower rate in both cell lines when compared to T and DHT, respectively, thus likely accounting for their apparent increased activity. The data clearly shows that 11KT and 11KDHT are potent and efficacious androgens, comparable to T and DHT. Most importantly, the findings highlight the fact that not only can 11KT and 11KDHT activate the androgen axis, and in so doing drive cell growth, but that these steroids have the potential to remain active for longer than T and DHT due to a reduced rate of metabolism. Collectively, the data demonstrates that 11KT and 11KDHT likely play a vital, but overlooked, role in the development and progression of CRPC."

"...A slower metabolic rate was observed in the VCaP cells. For example, DHT and T substrates were depleted in 24 hours in LNCaP cells, while complete metabolism of DHT and T substrates in VCaP cells was only achieved after 48 hours (Fig. 3.16). Nevertheless, the same trend was observed between the respective steroids. DHT was metabolised signicantly faster (63% in 12 hours) than the same concentration of 11KDHT (17% in 12 hours). After 24 hours, only 9% of DHT remained, compared to 60% of 11KDHT. While DHT was completely metabolised after 48 hours, 21% of the 11KDHT remained detectable after 72 hours."

The units listed on the label are just for measurement purposes. They do not indicate suggested or optimal dose. Please note that similar to the products sold by companies like BluePeptides, this product if for lab/research use only. The product can be ordered from the link below:
IdeaLabs Online Store - Worldwide Ordering And Delivery - Laboratory Research Chemicals

*******************************************************************************
11-keto DHT, also known as 11-ketoandrostanolone, is a keto-steroid present naturally in small amounts in a mammals body. Its physiological role in mammals is currently unknown, however, in fish 11-keto DHT is the primary androgen driving the male phenotype. In vitro research suggests that 11-keto DHT binds to and activates the androgen receptor with the same potency / affinity as the mammalian androgen DHT.

Drops per container: about 250
Each drop contains the following ingredients:

11-keto DHT: 1 mg

Other ingredients: DMSO, ethanol
*******************************************************************************

Is 11-keto DHT still available?

 

[A.R]

which of the two would synergize best with dianabol and npp?

Is npp Nandrolone? I don't think you should be taking dianabol along with it as both cause progesterone/estrogen problems. Swap the dianabol with Proviron, or 11 keto DHT.

Thinking about this like a gear head is basically pointless.

At the stage you're injecting 500+mg of gear a week, minute details like these kind of androgens become moot. There is no wariness of shut down etc. So really, you are better off taking masterone at 200mg a week, and doing it more 'traditionally'

I think this kind of use, especially in the performance enhancement context has enormous potential.

Rather than blasting yourself with gear, then recovering from the stress and abuse. Instead you improve metabolism and supplement androgens enough to create big training performance increases over time, with no shut down. You can walk sown both roads pointing in the same direction

I would posit that in terms of strength sports, the preg dhea dht compound + thyroid would be incredibly powerful. Especially if you monitor heart/temp in response to training loads. Using Peat methods to assess stress and recover from it is a whole new ball game.

Sorry to tangent off to PED and steroid use. I just wish to point out that there is no point doing things this way if you're gonna use drugs like npp.

If however, you are sick of long term steroid use for sports, and want to instead support healthy metabolism + training, then the preg+dhea+dht/andro mixes sound incredibly promising.

Very good post. I was thinking the same also. This path whilst being healthier, is also more sustainable.

Also if a person does use PED, then their recovery can greatly be improved with these peat/haidut methods.

 

[tallglass13]

I didn't see DHT on idealabs either...what happened?

 

[Texon]

I am going on Day 5 and it took till Day 4 with an AM and PM dose to really see effects. I am also on TRT so I will run some labs in about 3 weeks...

@skycop00
Do you plan on staying in trt or will you wean off once the other items are dialed in?

 

[skycop00]

@skycop00
Do you plan on staying in trt or will you wean off once the other items are dialed in?

I plan on staying on Trt. At 52, I feel fabulous really. I can still skate with the younger folks and whenever I try to come off trt, it's an absolute disaster. I have been using Pansterone on testis EOD with either the androsterone or dht and it really spikes libido. love those combinations so far. on occasion BP elevates with slight headache, so I take a few days off and everything normalizes. when I took 30mg of pregnenolone daily, after say 7-8 days, I would get headaches again. So now I use low dose and not everyday

 

[MCF]

I wanted to place an order for DHT and it is not there. Haidut, is it still available?

 

[Wagner83]

I'm sure he will update everyone when he can, for all I know he could just be awaiting the new shipment or may have to find a new source . Three members asking is probably enough. :)

 

[Texon]

I plan on staying on Trt. At 52, I feel fabulous really. I can still skate with the younger folks and whenever I try to come off trt, it's an absolute disaster. I have been using Pansterone on testis EOD with either the androsterone or dht and it really spikes libido. love those combinations so far. on occasion BP elevates with slight headache, so I take a few days off and everything normalizes. when I took 30mg of pregnenolone daily, after say 7-8 days, I would get headaches again. So now I use low dose and not everyday

Thanks skycop00 for your reply.
I should have asked if you were using IM or transdermal cream/ gel. My doc has me on 50 mgs/day of a TD cream and my status has done nothing but get worse . Seems it is just enough to shut down endogenous test.. tt @ 395..while increasing conversion to estrogen ..e2 @ 38..at the same time. He waited months before getting me on some arimidex which I take 25 mgs a couple times a week. I recently got a script for test cyp that I will use 50 mg x 2 per week to replace the cream. I am concerned about the cottonseed oil carrier but maybe that should be the least of my worries. Plan to also use .25 mg x 2 per week also..no decision about hcg yet. I recently began some 5adhp and kuinone drops ....so far so good. I am 65 but look much younger..no struggles with weight at 6'5" and 190 but I definitely do not feel up to par and I believe it's low T at this point. Had hernia repair and gallbladder removed a couple years apart so the elephant in the room I think is just trying to do the best I can to overcome these and general stresses of aging...I do miss the weight room..of course recovery from significant exercise is more of a challenge now I think in fact too long even for my age. I do not sleep well but do take some other basic supplements and a digestive enzymes.

 

[Texon]

Thanks skycop00 for your reply.
I should have asked if you were using IM or transdermal cream/ gel. My doc has me on 50 mgs/day of a TD cream and my status has done nothing but get worse . Seems it is just enough to shut down endogenous test.. tt @ 395..while increasing conversion to estrogen ..e2 @ 38..at the same time. He waited months before getting me on some arimidex which I take 25 mgs a couple times a week. I recently got a script for test cyp that I will use 50 mg x 2 per week to replace the cream. I am concerned about the cottonseed oil carrier but maybe that should be the least of my worries. Plan to also use .25 mg x 2 per week also..no decision about hcg yet. I recently began some 5adhp and kuinone drops ....so far so good. I am 65 but look much younger..no struggles with weight at 6'5" and 190 but I definitely do not feel up to par and I believe it's low T at this point. Had hernia repair and gallbladder removed a couple years apart so the elephant in the room I think is just trying to do the best I can to overcome these and general stresses of aging...I do miss the weight room..of course recovery from significant exercise is more of a challenge now I think in fact too long even for my age. I do not sleep well but do take some other basic supplements and a digestive enzymes.

PS I had the same reaction trying to get off trt..REALLY hellacious.

 

[skycop00]

PS I had the same reaction trying to get off trt..REALLY hellacious.

I did the standard protocol of Clomid and some ancillaries and man my body wanted NO PART of clomid....I am on a low dose of cypionate (60-70mg 2x per week) and that keeps me feeling really good!

 

[Texon]

I did the standard protocol of Clomid and some ancillaries and man my body wanted NO PART of clomid....I am on a low dose of cypionate (60-70mg 2x per week) and that keeps me feeling really good!

Thanks I may try to bump my dose a bit but initially I thought 50 mgs x 2/so in case IM gives me better bioavailability than the cream did.

 

[skycop00]

Thanks I may try to bump my dose a bit but initially I thought 50 mgs x 2/so in case IM gives me better bioavailability than the cream did.

Just so you know, the old adage of harpoon needles in the **** is just that..OLD NEWS....I have used (and many clients) insulin syringes with 100% stable levels...JUst FYI No need for pain and the old school ways...One day maybe even no needles...

 

[Texon]

Just so you know, the old adage of harpoon needles in the **** is just that..OLD NEWS....I have used (and many clients) insulin syringes with 100% stable levels...JUst FYI No need for pain and the old school ways...One day maybe even no needles...

My pcp who gave me the script for the testosterone cypionate threw in some 20g syringes?! Then when I picked it up at cvs they couldn't give me any syringes without a separate script for them...hilarious. I got on line and ordered some easy touch with 28g/ half inch needles. No needles would be good for sure. Great to hear about stable levels too.

 

[Texon]

Just so you know, the old adage of harpoon needles in the **** is just that..OLD NEWS....I have used (and many clients) insulin syringes with 100% stable levels...JUst FYI No need for pain and the old school ways...One day maybe even no needles...

Forgot to ask you if you or your clients utilize hcg as a matter of course. I just switched from the T cream to 50 mgs cypionate a couple days ago...so far so good. I take some herbals so I have to be careful with adex etc or estrogen gets too low. I find the 5adhp great but very strong...caution is advised for me anyway.

 

[skycop00]

Forgot to ask you if you or your clients utilize hcg as a matter of course. I just switched from the T cream to 50 mgs cypionate a couple days ago...so far so good. I take some herbals so I have to be careful with adex etc or estrogen gets too low. I find the 5adhp great but very strong...caution is advised for me anyway.

At low dose Cypionate like 100 mg a week or even 150 a week in 75mg dose 2x per week we see very little testicular shrinkage. I see many doctors using hcg now and arimidex and I'm one that feels the least amount of meds the better unless estrogen cannot be cotrolled. If we do see testicular issues we can simply dose the hcg for 30 days say every 3-4 months and accomplish the same as being on it all year round. Personally I can use it every 5 months for 30 days, and I use zero AI. Simply use aspirin, estrogen etc. Hope this helps.

 

[skycop00]

And like I said before using insulin pins for TRT is absolutely fine. Very stable levels and no worries of sticking 21 gauge needles in your body. I Personally use what is in sale at totaldiabetessupply.com so 28, 29 or 30 gauge.

 

[Texon]

And like I said before using insulin pins for TRT is absolutely fine. Very stable levels and no worries of sticking 21 gauge needles in your body. I Personally use what is in sale at totaldiabetessupply.com so 28, 29 or 30 gauge.

Agree wholeheartedly about less is more...thought I would start at 100 / week since I don't know how much cream was really being absorbed...don't think I can do the aspirin internally but might try aspercream? Just got my 28s from diabetes 4less in the mail yesterday. Can't wait to try one out with 50 mgs tomorrow morning. Thanks for the details..much appreciated.