haidut

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As promised, I am releasing a steroid that may be of interest to some people on the forum. It is a variation of the well-known steroid DHT that Peat has written about and I have also posted quite a few studies on. The steroid belongs to the group of the so-called keto-steroids and AFAIK this is the first time it is being sold to the general public. Some websites sell a steroid called 11-ketotestosterone (11-keto T), which is a precursor to 11-keto DHT. Both 11-keto T and 11-keto DHT are legal within the USA (for now). How long will that legal status persist I simply don't know.
The few studies that have been done on 11-keto DHT demonstrates it has the same androgenic activity / potency as DHT, but its role in mammals is virtually unknown. In fish however, 11-keto T and 11-keto DHT are the primary androgens driving the male phenotype. What is known is that 11-keto DHT has a much longer half-life than DHT and as such has the potential to exert androgenic activity even with very sporadic administration (2-3 times a week) as opposed to the daily administration needed with steroids like T and DHT. The half-life of 11-keto DHT appears to be on the order of 36 hours.

2016 New Investigator: Karl Storbeck | Bioanalysis Zone
"...We have discovered a novel pathway for the metabolism of the steroid 11β-hydroxyandrostenedione (11OHA4), a major product of human steroidogenesis which has been ignored for decades. We showed that 11OHA4 is the precursor to the potent androgens 11-ketotestosterone (11KT) and 11-ketodihydrotestosterone (11KDHT). Using a combination of UPLC–MS and UPLC–MS/MS techniques we confirmed the existence of a number of novel steroids in this pathway. We have since shown that 11KDHT is as potent as DHT, previously considered to be most potent natural androgen, a finding which has significant implications for our understanding of androgen dependent diseases such as castration-resistant prostate cancer and diseases of androgen excess, such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia and polycystic ovary syndrome."

11β-Hydroxydihydrotestosterone and 11-ketodihydrotestosterone, novel C19 steroids with androgenic activity: a putative role in castration resistant... - PubMed - NCBI
"...The pathway was validated in the androgen-dependent prostate cancer cell line, LNCaP. Androgen receptor (AR) transactivation studies showed that while 11KT and 11OHDHT act as a partial AR agonists, 11KDHT is a full AR agonist exhibiting similar activity to DHT at 1nM. Our data demonstrates that, while 11OHA4 has negligible androgenic activity, its metabolism to 11KT and 11KDHT yields androgenic compounds which may be implicated, together with A4 and DHEA(S), in driving CRPC in the absence of testicular T."

An investigation into the androgenic activity of 11-ketotestosterone and 11-ketodihydrotestosterone
"...This study is the first to show that 11KT and 11KDHT are metabolized at a significantly lower rate in both cell lines when compared to T and DHT, respectively, thus likely accounting for their apparent increased activity. The data clearly shows that 11KT and 11KDHT are potent and efficacious androgens, comparable to T and DHT. Most importantly, the findings highlight the fact that not only can 11KT and 11KDHT activate the androgen axis, and in so doing drive cell growth, but that these steroids have the potential to remain active for longer than T and DHT due to a reduced rate of metabolism. Collectively, the data demonstrates that 11KT and 11KDHT likely play a vital, but overlooked, role in the development and progression of CRPC."

"...A slower metabolic rate was observed in the VCaP cells. For example, DHT and T substrates were depleted in 24 hours in LNCaP cells, while complete metabolism of DHT and T substrates in VCaP cells was only achieved after 48 hours (Fig. 3.16). Nevertheless, the same trend was observed between the respective steroids. DHT was metabolised signicantly faster (63% in 12 hours) than the same concentration of 11KDHT (17% in 12 hours). After 24 hours, only 9% of DHT remained, compared to 60% of 11KDHT. While DHT was completely metabolised after 48 hours, 21% of the 11KDHT remained detectable after 72 hours."

The units listed on the label are just for measurement purposes. They do not indicate suggested or optimal dose. Please note that similar to the products sold by companies like BluePeptides, this product is for lab/research use only. The product can be ordered from the link below:
IdeaLabs Online Store - Worldwide Ordering And Delivery - Laboratory Research Chemicals

*******************************************************************************
11-keto DHT, also known as 11-ketoandrostanolone, is a keto-steroid present naturally in small amounts in a mammals body. Its physiological role in mammals is currently unknown, however, in fish 11-keto DHT is the primary androgen driving the male phenotype. In vitro research suggests that 11-keto DHT binds to and activates the androgen receptor with the same potency / affinity as the mammalian androgen DHT.

Drops per container: about 250
Each drop contains the following ingredients:

11-keto DHT: 1 mg

Other ingredients: DMSO, ethanol
*******************************************************************************
 
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mirc12354

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1 drop equals 1 mg * potentiating effect of DMSO (10 factor), that is already over Peat's daily recommended dose??? :cool:So 1 day on, 1 day off would be a suggested starting protocol (for rodents of course)?
 

aquaman

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I'm confused about "androgenic" - would it have a muscle building impact on lab rats like T would?
 

haidut

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I'm not sure if that's a typo, or I'm just confused by your choice of words. Is its role in mammals known or unknown?

Yes, typo. Sorry about that, I fixed it.
Thanks.
 

haidut

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Haidut, have you used this at all?

Yes, I find it actually being more potent than DHT and, as the study above said, much longer lasting. Most noticeable effects for me is strong anti-cortisol, anti-prolactin and anti-depressive. That means almost immediate shrinkage of the midriff area, strong libido boost and great mood enhancer. Muscles feel much harder but I don't think it makes them grow. So, it is very androgenic and anti-estrogenic, anti-cortisol as well, but I don't think it is anabolic in the sense that bodybuilders expect.
 

haidut

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1 drop equals 1 mg * potentiating effect of DMSO (10 factor), that is already over Peat's daily recommended dose??? :cool:So 1 day on, 1 day off would be a suggested starting protocol (for rodents of course)?

I think you can try 1 drop on each of the rat's leg muscles or on the forearm of their front paws. How much exactly you'd need for optimal effects would have to be discovered experimentally.
 

haidut

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Wonder how thus would work if on Testosterone Cypionate?

It should keep it from converting into estrogen. I find 11-keto DHT to be stronger anti-aromatase than anastrozole, at least for me.
 

haidut

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I'm confused about "androgenic" - would it have a muscle building impact on lab rats like T would?

No, it probably won't have muscle building effects. DHT-type steroids are mostly anti-estrogen, anti-cortisol, anti-prolactin and anti-serotonin. So, its direct effects are more related to mood, water balance, blood pressure, body fat, etc. The lowering of serotonin may lead to increase in endogenous testosterone synthesis, but 11-keto DHT on its own will not have much muscle building effects. However, it will prevent muscle breakdown from cortisol and over exertion. It is an androgenic steroid, but not anabolic. Also, great effects on bones as well.
 

haidut

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Can it cause acne?

Not that I know of. The acne phenomenon is closely related to estrogen. I think both DHEA and estrogen are required for acne to develop (if it is hormonal). Direct administration of DHT-type steroids does not really cause acne. There are a few studies on that. Adminsitration of DHEA and T in higher doses did lead to acne but DHT did not.
 

skycop00

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Placed my order...Looks like we pay tax to FLorida...! Anyway, what are our thoughts about using the DHT for someone already on Testosterone. Any insight would be appreciated. I take 70mg 2x/week and that keeps my levels at about 900 and I feel pretty good. I will experiment with the DHT and see if I can reduce the cypionate. I run labs regularly, so if you would like any feedback on certain scenarios let me know....
 

mirc12354

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No, it probably won't have muscle building effects. DHT-type steroids are mostly anti-estrogen, anti-cortisol, anti-prolactin and anti-serotonin. So, its direct effects are more related to mood, water balance, blood pressure, body fat, etc. The lowering of serotonin may lead to increase in endogenous testosterone synthesis, but 11-keto DHT on its own will not have much muscle building effects. However, it will prevent muscle breakdown from cortisol and over exertion. It is an androgenic steroid, but not anabolic. Also, great effects on bones as well.
Would it make.sense to use this in 36 years old who is already using Pansterone/Kuinone/Lapodin combo and seeing spectacular results? I am mainly after lowering cortisol within general antiaging scope and possibly some fat loss/muscle gain?
 
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tyler

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I'm not seeing this available on the website!
Edit: Working now :D
 
Last edited:

DKayJoe

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Any idea how this would effect signalling around 5-AR? If this is administered would the body convert less Testosterone to DHT via 5-AR and push it down the Estrogen route due to the body thinking DHT was already at decent levels or would it reduce 5-AR conversion on the whole? Apologies if my reasoning is a little off...
 

allblues

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Crazy exciting. Have you by any chance communicated with a certain anti-PUFA guru about these keto-steroids, @haidut?
If so, any comments?
 
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