What Ray Said

[Rinse & rePeat]

Ray was eating oats the last year of his life. Did he change his mind?

He completely missed the part that the soluble fiber in beans stimulates bile and then grabs onto it while moving it out to the toilet.

The last year of Ray’s life is when he and I conversed through email. He talked about the digestive benefits of oats and also it’s detriments. Here is the end of a study he sent me at the end of one such email…

“…the study. Rats consuming oat bran had
greater body weights (P< 0.002), produced
much larger concentrations of all SCFA,
including butyrate, in both the proximal and
distal colon (P< 0.0001), had more acidic
luminal pH values (P< 0.0001), but also had
significantly more development of colon
tumors (P< 0.03). Alternatively, rats
consuming wheat bran produced more
typical molar ratios of the SCFA (65:10:20),
had a relatively greater concentration of
butyrate than propionate, and produced a
larger volume (P< 0.05) and more bulky stool
than the rats fed oat bran. The results of this
study support other evidence that an acidic
luminal pH is not protective in and of itself,
and that diets containing wheat bran
are protective against colon cancer
development. In addition, these data show
that large luminal butyrate concentrations in
the distal colon alone, as were present in the
rats consuming oat bran diets, are
not protective of tumor development.”

 

[InChristAlone]

I personally don't do well on whole grains. I am seeing positives from black beans though. Many people healed on Karen Hurd's bean protocol. One in particular was practically dying of Crohn's disease, just non stop diarrhea and gut pain. She will eat beans the rest of her life because they saved her.

 

[freyasam]

Sounds similar to what Ray said. Milk and eggs should cover vitamin A requirements for low thyroid people

We could go round and round in circles about this. A low thyroid people eating liver and supplementing A will accumulate (poison themselves). A high thyroid person is not likely to accumulate A if they are being reasonable about dosing. D and E are definitely warranted but I think sunlight is even more useful. I don't know about other places but here the sun is deliberately being blocked. Whatever they are spraying is poisoning us and blocking sunlight.

Could you tell us what region you are in?
Edit - and what are the signs you see where you are that indicate the sun's being blocked? (so I can see if the same is happening where I live; I do wonder)

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Beans have kept people alive for centuries, grains as well. There are pluses and minuses to both. I don’t have anything to address health wise so I am keeping them on my splurge shelf. I love them refried in tallow with carmelized sweet onion and topped with sour cream and hot sauce. Ok that is what I am going to make right now. Different beans are better than others too, with black beans and adzuki beans having more benefits than say pinto beans. Lima beans can kill a person if not cooked well….

“Like many legumes, the seemingly innocent lima bean should not be eaten raw — doing so can be lethal. (And who wants to die in such an ignoble way as death by lima bean?) Also known as butter beans, the legumes can contain a high level of cyanide, which is part of the plant's defense mechanism.”

 

[freyasam]

RP said that oat bran was good to eat temporarily, but not to eat it more than about a year, because it could increase estrogen. He said this in an interview about a year before his death; I think he said it multiple times during the last year of his life.

I think he was experiencing an increase in symptoms the last year of his life and was experimenting with new foods to try to mitigate it.

Throughout his career he often adjusted his recommendations. 15-20 years ago he was recommending higher ratios of protein and fat than the past 5 years or so.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

RP said that oat bran was good to eat temporarily, but not to eat it more than about a year, because it could increase estrogen. He said this in an interview about a year before his death; I think he said it multiple times during the last year of his life.

or so.

I heard this “ for a year” thing too, probably because ingesting it for more than year might starts the possibility of cancer getting a chance at things. It is that science “U” curve that can clear up particular problems and then if continued it becomes the problem. Ray Peat’s basic diet recommendation of animal proteins and fruit is optimal. The grains, other starches and white sugar can be good when the better things are not available, but he did not tout them to be optimal. It frustrates me when people eat masa thinking it is healthy because Ray enjoyed it once in awhile via coconut fried masa chips.,They can’t understand the concept that a little is ok. Ingesting dirt is better than starving…

“Animal proteins, and fruits, because they contain the lowest levels of toxins, should form the basis of the diet.” -Ray Peat

"There is one form of grain that is relatively harmless because of the traditional method of processing it, and that is corn that has been made into tortillas or other
native American foods, using alkali to detoxify it and make it more digestible. Pellagra was strongly associated with the use of ordinary corn, but not with the traditional preparations. Tortillas fried in coconut oil and salted make a pleasant snack which is less nutritious than potato chips, but less allergenic and more digestible. " -Ray Peat

"One thing that happens in the vegetable diet, heavily based on [the] cabbage family, or beans, lentils and nuts, these proteins, in quality, rank about 15 times lower than the highest quality protein." -Ray Peat

"While nutritional reference tables often show fruits and potatoes as having about 2% protein content, while nuts, grains, and legumes are shown with a high protein
content, often in the range of 15% to 40%, they neglect to point out that fruits and potatoes have a very high
water content, while that of the seeds is extremely low. The protein content of milk is about 3%, which according to the charts would suggest that it is inferior
to beans and grains. In fact, the protein value of grain is negligible, mainly because seeds contain their protein in a storage form, that is extremely rich in nitrogen, but poor in essential amino acids. Special preparation is
needed to reduce the toxicity of seeds, and in the case of beans, these methods are never very satisfactory." -Ray Peat

"In several parts of the world, desperately poor people sometimes eat clay, and even clay has been promoted as a health food. Almost anything becomes "food, when people are under economic and social pressure. If these things aren't acutely toxic, they can become part of our "normal" diet."
-Ray Peat

 

[sunny]

The last year of Ray’s life is when he and I conversed through email. He talked about the digestive benefits of oats and also it’s detriments. Here is the end of a study he sent me at the end of one such email…

“…the study. Rats consuming oat bran had
greater body weights (P< 0.002), produced
much larger concentrations of all SCFA,
including butyrate, in both the proximal and
distal colon (P< 0.0001), had more acidic
luminal pH values (P< 0.0001), but also had
significantly more development of colon
tumors (P< 0.03). Alternatively, rats
consuming wheat bran produced more
typical molar ratios of the SCFA (65:10:20),
had a relatively greater concentration of
butyrate than propionate, and produced a
larger volume (P< 0.05) and more bulky stool
than the rats fed oat bran. The results of this
study support other evidence that an acidic
luminal pH is not protective in and of itself,
and that diets containing wheat bran
are protective against colon cancer
development. In addition, these data show
that large luminal butyrate concentrations in
the distal colon alone, as were present in the
rats consuming oat bran diets, are
not protective of tumor development.”

I'm not sure the content of your email with him, but given the content of the study he provided, did you think it was odd that he was eating oat bran as he talked about in interviews?

 

[InChristAlone]

The reason to include a small serving of well cooked beans at every meal is not for the protein or even for the nutrition, but for bile elimination. Just like Ray used the carrot to knock down endotoxin (the bacteria do get used to even the carrot and start chowing down after about 2-3 weeks). Except I think carrots taste full of plant chemicals more than beans. He figured not much was absorbed but did he have any evidence for that?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I'm not sure the content of your email with him, but given the content of the study he provided, did you think it was odd that he was eating oat bran as he talked about in interviews?

No because he said in an email to me that between oats and bran “Bran is a little more helpful for increasing the metabolic rate”,
He said in another email that oats are useful for digestive issues. I figured in your eighties thing get old and slow down a bunch, and oat bran was something he was enjoying for awhile, to address ways to take care of elderly issues without going the medicine route. I am not there yet so I am not going to do what someone in their eighties does, or in their twenties for that matter. Ray Peat says cascara is good for digestive issues and preventing intestinal and colon cancers, but it well known that nobody should take it everyday.

 

[freyasam]

Ray Peat says cascara is good for digestive issues and preventing intestinal and colon cancers, but it well known that nobody should take it everyday.

I've not heard anyone say not to take it everyday! Did Ray say this? What's the reasoning?

I've taken cascara daily for years but I am questioning it lately. Problem is when you have really bad lifelong constipation, there's very little to help. I've tried a million magnesium supplements and they all cause problems. Thyroid, carrot, mushroom all help a little but not enough. Psyllium does nothing. Just not good options for bad chronic constipation. Plus I want to start charcoal and I know that will make the constipation worse.

 

[Peatress]

I don’t think he missed the benefit of beans. He said a half cup of them once in awhile had some benefits, and he said he enjoyed his humus once in awhile. I think where the problem arises in eating them is when it become all the time. Sure they get things “moving”, but if that is not a problem then they add estrogen. It is to my always point that something can be good until it is overused and then goes in the wrong direction, south.

He wrote a newsletter on bean syndrome

File: the-bean-syndrome.pdf — Chadnet

The greatest website on the interwebz!

wiki.chadnet.org

 

[InChristAlone]

He wrote a newsletter on bean syndrome

File: the-bean-syndrome.pdf — Chadnet

The greatest website on the interwebz!

wiki.chadnet.org

Yeah reading that now as someone who takes these newsletters with a grain a salt now... that was very poorly referenced. He had nothing to back up his claims that beans do people harm other than this one: "He concluded that "...the possibility of a relation between Burkitt's lymphoma
and a diet of beans should not be neglected," though he emphasized that other factors must be
considered, since most people who eat beans don't develop the disease."

So basically he only has a theory that they increase endotoxin stress.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

He wrote a newsletter on bean syndrome

File: the-bean-syndrome.pdf — Chadnet

The greatest website on the interwebz!

wiki.chadnet.org

I gave up beans long ago, for no other reason than it is not a good anti-aging food, otherwise they give me no issues whatsoever.

I don’t know what bean syndrome is, I couldn’t pull up your link.

 

[sunny]

I gave up beans long ago, for no other reason than it is not a good anti-aging food, otherwise they give me no issues whatsoever.

I don’t know what bean syndrome is, I couldn’t pull up your link.

Look here for bean syndrome under articles, scroll down to pdf section

Index of Dr. Ray Peat's Writings

The ultimate destination for all things excellence!

expulsia.com

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

.

Look here for bean syndrome under articles, scroll down to pdf section

Index of Dr. Ray Peat's Writings

The ultimate destination for all things excellence!

expulsia.com

Got it! Wow!

“Beans and lentils happen to be powerful anti-thyroid agents, so it isn't surprising to see indications of decreased aerobic capacity, resulting from decreased peak oxygen consumption( 5) in association with the chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), if that syndrome is caused by chronic exposure to dietary legumes.”

 

[InChristAlone]

.

Got it! Wow!

“Beans and lentils happen to be powerful anti-thyroid agents, so it isn't surprising to see indications of decreased aerobic capacity, resulting from decreased peak oxygen consumption( 5) in association with the chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), if that syndrome is caused by chronic exposure to dietary legumes.”

That was taken out of context. He was saying IF CFS is caused by beans then it would lead to that. He doesn't know if beans cause CFS.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

That was taken out of context. He was saying IF CFS is caused by beans then it would lead to that. He doesn't know if beans cause CFS.

Here is what came before it..

“An extract of the common bean (phytohaemagglutinin, PHA) is widely used in research, and has been used occasionally in medicine. The effects of bean toxin, and other plant toxins (e.g., pokeberry) overlap in several ways with viral infection and autoimmune disease. PHA causes, for example, the appearance of large mononuclear cells in the blood, the suppression of DNA synthesis in thymic cells, a slight leucopenia, and hepatic necrosis. Extracts of lentils, broad beans, and fenugreek (used in curry) are as active as PHA, and extracts of common peas, chick peas, lupinus, and soy beans also have some activity. The effects of a single exposure (such as eating a pokeberry) can remain microscopically visible for two weeks.( 1)
In aging, stress, and malnutrition, the barrier function of the intestine is weakened. Vitamin A and magnesium deficiencies allow macromolecules to enter the blood from the intestine.( 2)
Injury to the bowel causes "flu-like" symptoms. There have been reports that the viruses of "respiratory diseases" appear in the intestine before they appear in the respiratory tract. Alvarez found that "when a dog gets distemper the gradient of latent period down its small bowel is reversed," and he suggests that in a cold "a systolic, non-progressive type of contraction appears." He says codeine is the best medicine to block a cold. (I have argued that it is vitamin C's laxative action which can interrupt cold symptoms.) Recent research shows that naloxone, the morphine antagonist, can restore normal responses to the stressed bowel. Alvarez was interested in chronic fatigue and "painful fatigue," and remarked that occasionally "a fatigue state will follow a bout with some infection such as influenza."( 3)
Bacterial toxins, whether produced in the intestine or in the manufacture of food supplements, pass through the wall of the intestine in larger amounts in stress, malnutrition, and old age. Endotoxin suppresses mitochondrial respiration, and tends to produce a shock-physiology similar to that produced by endogenous hormones. I have mentioned before that I think endotoxin can be involved in the premenstrual syndrome, and I think it might even be involved in some breast syndromes.( 4)
Two features of mitochondrial damage in severe stress (regardless of whether endotoxin is involved) are a depletion of the antioxidant reserves, and loss of the ability to convert cholesterol into the protective steroid hormones. Mitochondrial damage is more likely in hypothyroidism, as I have discussed previously; thyroxin inhibits lipid peroxidation, end it tends to be inversely related to adrenalin, preventing or minimizing "catecholamine toxicity," for example.”

 

[InChristAlone]

There is still nothing to be said on whether something like canned well rinsed black beans do any harm. They are much lower in PHA as it is. The lectins will be mostly destroyed as well. On a high sugar Ray peat style diet my intestine was extremely vulnerable to endotoxin. It is not anymore. Despite eating what he thought were toxic foods.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

There is still nothing to be said on whether something like canned well rinsed black beans do any harm. They are much lower in PHA as it is. The lectins will be mostly destroyed as well. On a high sugar Ray peat style diet my intestine was extremely vulnerable to endotoxin. It is not anymore. Despite eating what he thought were toxic foods.

Ray Peat has said if something works for a person then good for them. Everyone is different. I personally don’t have digestive issues so I don’t need beans and when I was heavy into beans and oats my hair, teeth snd figure went downhill, So I am going to stick to my dairy.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I've not heard anyone say not to take it everyday! Did Ray say this? What's the reasoning?

I've taken cascara daily for years but I am questioning it lately. Problem is when you have really bad lifelong constipation, there's very little to help. I've tried a million magnesium supplements and they all cause problems. Thyroid, carrot, mushroom all help a little but not enough. Psyllium does nothing. Just not good options for bad chronic constipation. Plus I want to start charcoal and I know that will make the constipation worse.

Like every supplement he says take it until symptoms subside. Cascara, like everything in excess is well known to have a possible downside…

Cascara is a popular herbal medication and over-the-counter therapy of constipation. “Cascara is generally safe and well tolerated, but can cause adverse events including clinically apparent liver injury when used in high doses for longer than recommended periods.”

“Use of cascara in the recommended doses for a limited period of time has been associated with few side effects, most of which are mild and transient. With longer term use of high doses of cascara, however, adverse events have been described including several cases of clinically apparent liver injury. The time to onset of liver injury has varied from a few days to 2 months of use, and the pattern of serum enzyme elevations varied from hepatocellular to cholestatic. The liver injury ranged from mild to severe, but usually resolved rapidly with discontinuation. Immunoallergic features and autoimmune markers were not prominent or consistently present in the published cases.”