Ray used thyroid to slow his metabolism down. Everyone else doing the opposite.

Herbie

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On the last interview with Danny, Georgi and Ray, Danny asked Ray if the reason he started taking thyroid was because of Broda Barnes and Ray said that when he decided to start taking thyroid that it slowed his metabolism down to normal. Danny asked a great question to Ray which was why was his metabolism was so fast and was it from stress and Ray didn't answer. Ray said he met some men like him who are 5'8-5'10 and couldn't put on weight but was able to build muscle once on the thyroid. Maybe Danny can ask Ray again about his fast metabolism again.

Ray said he used to eat 9000-10000 calories, drink a gallon of milk per day and not urinate much, 30-50 coffees per day, litre of ice cream per day for 15 years, said something to Georgi about osmolarity which I don't understand. Ray said he evaporates the liquid from breathing and said about breathing a lot, personally I don't breathe enough to evaporate the liquid but I thought not breathing so much at rest was more efficient and retained more co2. I've never tried to control my breathing in anyway but I'm not breathing very heavy at rest. Doesn't seem normal to.

When I came across Ray's work I basically emulated what he recommended and which is also the same as copying his own lifestyle because he practices what he preaches but I cannot do it. So many people like me come and want to speed up their metabolism but he was trying to slow his down. I was coming from under eating which I think most people are because of brain washing, feel sick from terrible food, plus poverty because of globalism.

I cannot drink all the liquid and never did before coming into this paradigm, many people like me cannot emulate this Ray Peat lifestyle because they have a different physiology, maybe more normal and that they do not have to go to such extremes to be healthy or have a good metabolism. I would like to understand this more, maybe we can learn more. I wouldn't even have much puf in my tissues because I never ate much food in my life. My Mum didn't raise me to be having deep fried food much.

I need to eat starches like potato and dryer food because it becomes too much liquid and fat and feel stressed by all the liquid then comes the high adrenalin clear urine and stress from that. I have been going round in circles for 5 years now, listened to every interview twice, doesn't matter if I ate low puf for 5 years and took thyroid and drink strong coffee etc. People can't just say you haven't been doing it right or long enough because Ive been doing it consistently for so long and I haven't found anything beyond Peat. But I am always at sea level. Don't tell me to put salt in my milk..

I maybe complaining but I find its hard to get a straight answer from Ray. If it were me I would give more thorough explanations so people would understand but maybe that's just me. I do find I hard to know the truth because no one can just refute what Ray says because none of us are old enough and have access to enough science plus are not experienced enough to be able to find out the truth for themselves, we have to trust Ray and not even ourselves really because we have no clue about ourselves because we live in a idiot world and no one else is in Ray's league. Everyone knows he is has got intelligence and time on everyone else and there is no one else alive. We are hamsters doing experiments on ourselves. but its hard to be objective on yourself. Plus Ray is constricted in what he can say and the medium he can help people through, very limited.

I am mid 30s but people think I am mid 20s, even 18 years old by old women, I am 5'5 very boyish and youthful, in personality too like never gonna grow up so not sure what my personal physiology is. I will keep walking on the knifes edge balancing between all the extremes and keep moving forward.
 
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Peatful

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Thoughtful post.

My general understanding is thyroid (T3 / NDT) to increase mitochondrial respiration and in turn “metabolism“ or “bioenergic health”.

Does that make sense -or apply - in the context of what you listened to?
 

Herbie

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Thoughtful post.

My general understanding is thyroid (T3 / NDT) to increase mitochondrial respiration and in turn “metabolism“ or “bioenergic health”.

Does that make sense -or apply - in the context of what you listened to?

Yes Ray had a wasteful metabolism, inefficient but I don't know what me and all the others like me have
 

Peatful

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Yes Ray had a wasteful metabolism, inefficient but I don't know what me and all the others like me have
Meaning...

It wasn't clear to me what you were originally asking?
Referring to your overall health or your boyish good looks or what?
 

Beastmode

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Maybe someone can confirm, but didn't someone mention to Ray in the interview about having a high metabolism, yet low CO2 levels?

@haidut
 

Herbie

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Meaning...

It wasn't clear to me what you were originally asking?
Referring to your overall health or your boyish good looks or what?
I didn't really ask anything, Ray said he come across other men of the same height which had the same issues as him so maybe if your short and look like a boy as a man then it means something and maybe Ray has identified different kinds of people who have different physiology because I am obviously different to him and maybe if we learnt about this it would be interesting or helpful. Ray has said delayed puberty is a good thing. He has said so many things I cannot make sense of it all.

Where did I say good looks? No where.
 
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Peatful

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Maybe someone can confirm, but didn't someone mention to Ray in the interview about having a high metabolism, yet low CO2 levels?

@haidut
That would make sense and add context.
 

Beastmode

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That would make sense and add context.

Growing up as an athlete,I could eat everything and anything and my weight never budged. I was definitely hypothyroid, so that could verify having a high metabolism, yet low CO2 due to the hypothyroidism.

If someone can link that part the interview that either confirms that or not, that would be great.

How do we measure both, if that's what's needed?
 

lampofred

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I think his part of his fast metabolism was inefficiency like neuroleptic malignant syndrome or serotonin syndrome. Metabolism is high but the calories are all wasted as heat, no CO2 or ATP production. Thyroid turns off that inefficiency.
 

success23

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Interesting. My thyroid is high yet i am overweight. Around 300 pounds ( 135kg) at 6'1 (185sm). Or maybe i am just eating more calories that i need...
 

boris

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Yes Ray had a wasteful metabolism, inefficient but I don't know what me and all the others like me have

Did you test your thyroid function by comparing temp+pulse? How is your waking temp and pulse and how do those numbers change 1-2 hours after a meal?
 

success23

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I did some random measurments. Temp is around 36,6 - 36,9, pulse is around 85.
Thyroid is 3,30 ( 1,8 - 3,1)
 

Cloudhands

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I mean dont base all of your life/diet off of him just because you assume hes smarter than you. Hes a source of information that you can take into consideration, but dont just do exactly as he does and get feel frustrated when you arent him, its kind of the bigger picture hes been trying to express as far as what i percieve
 

boris

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I did some random measurments. Temp is around 36,6 - 36,9, pulse is around 85.
Thyroid is 3,30 ( 1,8 - 3,1)

You can compare the values immediately after waking to the mid day values. If temperature rises from morning to mid day after eating, then you know it‘s thyroid acting. If it gets lower after eating than that means you are running on stress metabolism and the food lowers the stress.
 

Herbie

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Did you test your thyroid function by comparing temp+pulse? How is your waking temp and pulse and how do those numbers change 1-2 hours after a meal?

I used to do this and have Broda Barnes Hypothyroid book. I have an issue with this and that is that they made mercury thermometers illegal and all the other testing devices are unreliable junk from my experience. I don't have any thermometer at the moment.

I don't believe that if a person cannot drink 2.5 gallons of liquid a day, that it means they are hypothyroid or have slow metabolism.
 

Herbie

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I mean dont base all of your life/diet off of him just because you assume hes smarter than you. Hes a source of information that you can take into consideration, but dont just do exactly as he does and get feel frustrated when you arent him, its kind of the bigger picture hes been trying to express as far as what i percieve

This response is not relevant to me but maybe other people.

The problem is that everyone used to eat what their culture ate based on what they were taught by family but now we happen to be in a time where culture is being destroyed and so most people who make it to knowing who Ray Peat is have lost their cultural diet, started changing there diet based on the advice of other people because they had issues which is mainly from puf and if they are here then it means that whichever diet or diets they were doing wasn't giving them health and energy which leaves them with no choice but to base all their diet off of Rays writings and knowledge and the more people do it the more they will end up just doing what Ray does himself. I don't think Ray is big picture when you get into it, its quite sophisticated.

Once you avoid puf, carrageenan, gum arabic, locust bean gum, soy lecithin, citric acid, ascorbic acid, gluten, corn syrup, fortified and so on it doesn't leave you with much choice then you lower muscle meat, vegetables, starch and then its just dairy with some liver if you can stomach it and oysters, shrimp but then you know to eat low fat so then less cheese and just basically milk and OJ because dried fruit has issues, many fruits not in season, organic? Ray doesn't recommend tomato, pineapple, banana and apples or cloudy apple juice. Sour dough is good but hard to get a white one, I can go on about this plus I have lived in three countries throughout this time and its all the same with some processed foods with much less E numbers.
 

success23

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You can compare the values immediately after waking to the mid day values. If temperature rises from morning to mid day after eating, then you know it‘s thyroid acting. If it gets lower after eating than that means you are running on stress metabolism and the food lowers the stress.

Ye i know. Checked my temp after eating and i got 37.00 and 37.2.
 

Broco6679

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I think you've misunderstood what he is saying.

The metabolic rate and thyroid function are not the same thing - thyroid function directly contributes to the metabolic rate, but it is not the metabolic rate. Generally speaking, the metabolic rate refers to the amount of energy, and thus substrate, turned over by the organism in a given period of time.

In the hypothyroid state, adrenaline and other stress hormones are chronically elevated -> stress hormones reduce the cells ability to oxidize glucose, instead promoting glycolysis and fermentation -> cells now only obtain 2 ATP per molecule of glucose via glycolysis instead of the 32 available via oxidative phosphorylation -> cells now have to turn over a much larger absolute amount of glucose to obtain the same amount of useable energy, thus 'wasting' glucose -> the absolute amount of energy you have to consume via dietary intake is much higher, even though the energetic status of the cell itself is much lower -> thus, the metabolic rate / the amount of substrate being turned over is objectively higher, but the energy available to cells to actually fulfil their function, repair, regenerate, etc is much lower.

When thyroid is taken in this state, it allows glucose to be oxidized completely, restoring the cells ability to extract all available energy from each molecule. This reduces the absolute amount of absolute glucose being turned over, and thus the amount that is needed via dietary intake, but it vastly increases the energy that's actually to be used by cells.

Ray's approach is about increasing the useable energy available to cells, not increasing the metabolic rate by any means necessary - if the latter was true, we'd all be running marathons 24/7, taking amphetamine, etc.
 
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Andman

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brother could it be something as simple as being burnt out a little by information overload? (paralysis by analysis etc)

maybe its a good idea to take a break of like 7-14 days from reading about nutrition and health and trying to eat whatever according to cravings? sort of a holiday basically
 

Herbie

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I think you've misunderstood what he is saying.

The metabolic rate and thyroid function are not the same thing - thyroid function directly contributes to the metabolic rate, but it is not the metabolic rate. Generally speaking, the metabolic rate refers to the amount of energy, and thus substrate, turned over by the organism in a given period of time.

In the hypothyroid state, adrenaline and other stress hormones are chronically elevated -> stress hormones reduce the cells ability to oxidize glucose, instead promoting glycolysis and fermentation -> cells now only obtain 2 ATP per molecule of glucose via glycolysis instead of the 32 available via oxidative phosphorylation -> cells now have to turn over a much larger absolute amount of glucose to obtain the same amount of useable energy, thus 'wasting' glucose -> the absolute amount of energy you have to consume via dietary intake is much higher, even though the energetic status of the cell itself is much lower -> thus, the metabolic rate / the amount of subsrate being turned over is objectively higher, but the energy needed by cells to actually fulfil their function, repair, regenerate, etc is much lower.

When thyroid is taken in this state, it allows glucose to be oxidized completely, restoring the cells ability to extract all available energy from each molecule. This reduces the absolute amount of absolute glucose being turned over, and thus the amount that is needed via dietary intake, but it vastly increases the energy that's actually to be used by cells.

Ray's approach is about increasing the useable energy available to cells, not increasing the metabolic rate by any means necessary - if the latter was true, we'd all be running marathons 24/7, taking amphetamine, etc.
Do you think most people have low thyroid and low metabolism not low thyroid high metabolism?
 
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