How Much PUFAs Should I Limit Myself To If I'm Relatively Young?

[jack3d]

16 here, reading about the Ray Peat diet and it seems very interesting. I would like the benefits of an increased thyroid output and feeling high energy.

Here are the foods I commonly eat. I know the peat diet is low PUFA so this can factor into some of the specific food choices as well as their amounts, such as choosing between brown and white rice, and how much eggs and chicken to eat a day

• eggs (0.6g/egg)
• broccoli/other veggies
• rice (white/brown? I know brown has some PUFA in it, 0.6g/a cup)
• chicken (about 0.8g/100g)
• greek yogurt
• egg whites
• occasional salmon/tilapia (bad?)

I would like to use this diet to optimize my hormones, optimize my thyroid, and fix high LDL. I want to know how much of what to eat so that I stay "low PUFA" and get the benefits, and make needed adjustments

 

[jack3d]

If I were to eat 2 cups of brown rice a day, 4 eggs, and 200g chicken breast that comes out to 5g of PUFAs
The peat diet is about being minimal fat- how low in fat can I go?

 

[Dobbler]

From those foods salmon is def the worst. Replace it with shrimp, oysters , other low pufa seafood. Also white jasmine rice is alot better than brown rice. Other than that i quess its ok. Dont use seeds or seed oils at all. Cook with coconut oil. If you want taste and fat with your meal then use butter, cheese etc. Beef is better than chicken. Eat fruit like OJ everyday and as much as you like. You learn the stuff in time.

 

[jack3d]

From those foods salmon is def the worst. Replace it with shrimp, oysters , other low pufa seafood. Also white jasmine rice is alot better than brown rice. Other than that i quess its ok. Dont use seeds or seed oils at all. Cook with coconut oil. If you want taste and fat with your meal then use butter, cheese etc. Beef is better than chicken. Eat fruit like OJ everyday and as much as you like. You learn the stuff in time.

If I eat Salmon once a week is it bad? I can't fully commit to the diet (yet) because my parents would have a hard time understanding why I can't eat salmon- plus I'm already going to a dietician/eating "disorder" specialist (although that's a whole 'nother story) so I don't think I could get away with that. But I'm trying to eat as peaty AS POSSIBLE.

As for fruits, can I eat actual oranges/clementines? And I kind of need the brown rice for the fiber, since I don't really ***t otherwise. Plus it's low glycemic and my body composition looks a lot better with low glycemic carbs- I am into physique stuff. IIRC Ray Peat can still vouch for brown rice, just not AS MUCH as white rice.

 

[Waremu]

As someone who has been Peating since 2012, I'll give you my opinion on what I would do as if I were you, knowing what I know now and what I have learned and what has and hasn't worked for me.

I'd throw out the salmon (higher PUFA fish) and use cod in place of it. Lower PUFA fish thats actually fairly high in glycine and other goodies. I'd try to focus on consuming oysters at least 1-2 times per week for the selenium, zinc, copper, etc. I'd throw out the egg whites as well. Egg whites are problematic for a lot of people trying to balance hormones, as it's high in some of the amino acids which can be more problematic. Greek yogurt is okay, but I'd try to obtain raw dairy locally if possible. Raw A-2 milk yogurt and other dairy in my experience is far superior when it comes to digestion. Store bought dairy I can't handle at all (makes me very depressed, lack motivation, over the long run). Raw goat milk/cheese is probably the best of the best protein one can consume and I'd look for that if it were possible. I'd go easy on the chicken unless grass fed -- not just for PUFA but the chemicals they add to a lot of the chicken meat during processing/cleaning. White rice is a great choice if you handle starch well. I'd go easy on eggs with yolks if you really want to keep PUFA low. No more than 1-2 eggs with yolks per day. I don't think there isn't anything in egg yolk you can' t get from raw dairy/oysters/fruit. I'd add in gelatin as well. Try to get 0.5-1 gram of glycine for every gram of methionine/cystine you consume. For me that comes out to two servings at least of gelatin per day. So for me, a more refined diet would look like:

Protein (gelatin/raw dairy as staples):

Raw A2 milk and/or goat milk (skimmed), or yogurt/kefir
Gelatin (2-3 servings per day at least)
Oysters 1-2 times per week
Cod fish/lobster occasionally
Bone broth is also great but may be time consuming

Carbs:

Oranges, dates, pineapple, bananas, white rice, cooked apples/pears, etc.

Fat:

Coconut oil, raw milk cheese, cacao fat from cacao/chocolate, or an egg (I keep fat very low personally, so not much here)

I do best with PUFA very low and fat very low, and no starches with maybe the exception to white rice. I didn't do the best on very low fat when I was new to Peating but found as my health improved and PUFA got low, I did better at burning carbs over fat; especially once my liver got in better shape. I would also keep up the coffee (if you handle it well) and carrots. I notice I feel more sluggish and depressed when I don't regularly consume carrots for fiber and fruit in general. The occasional lean steak isn't bad either if you handle it well. I keep iron very low so I don't eat much red meat. I aim to get no more than 30 grams of protein per meal (too much protein consumed in one sitting may lead to more ammonia produced) and my meal usually has a 3:1 ratio of protein to carbs. So that would be 30 grams of protein and 90-100 grams of carbs per meal. I eat every 3-4 hours. Only supplements I take is Vitamin A and D and K2 and creatine (5 grams per day).

I personally aim to eat 2 grams or less of PUFA per day. This is very low. You may or may not want more, but I do best on this and find through the research I have done, lowest is generally best. I try to keep PUFA as low as possible while maximizing nutrition as much as I can. Generally 2-4 grams per 2000 calories is what is recommended as being low PUFA. The lower end of that is what I focus on doing. I consume more than 2000 calories per day though. I consume like 3500 calories per day so theoretically I could be low PUFA by consuming 6 grams PUFA or more, so I am even lower if one goes by that math. And hey, if I can consume that many calories but still eat so low PUFA where it's as if it's a 2000 calorie diet then I think that's good. Some will say omega 3 PUFA is essential in small amounts, some will say it isn't, but keeping it low regardless is best because even if you keep PUFA low on a low fat diet, you'll get enough of the PUFA thats more or less unavoidable in small amounts. Omega 6 is the worst so that means no vegetable oils, etc.

I would also add in red light. It's not a food but I look at it like a supplement. It's essential for me and everything just seems to work better when I get enough of it each day and when I don't, I really notice. Of course real sunshine is great too, but thats very limiting for most people. But even then I try to get some sunshine as well.

 

[anyfit]

a few points that might help you :

- according to peat , a PUFA consumption under 4g a day is protective against cancer so around that should be the very beneficial area.

- the most damage is caused by stored PUFA , if the PUFA gets used up before it gets stored it does less damage but still not ideal.

- vitamin E helps to counter PUFA , but it is less ideal than avoiding PUFA.

- brown rice is a strong 5ARi , you better avoid it if you dont want to lower your DHT, i would stick to white rice.

- not all PUFAs are the same, the most "evil" one is linoleic acid, so avoiding it should have a high priority.

- commercial chicken and eggs contain linoleic and arachidonic acid so consuming high amounts of those can be inflammatory, so mind the amounts, egg yolks contain most of the fatty acids so maybe avoiding those could help , despite them being very nutrient dense...

- salmon and tilapia dont only contain high amounts of PUFA , they are almost always farmed in bad conditions and are very toxic, if you like fish stick to cod and sol, rule of thumb is that if its a cold water fish, low fat is good and if its a tropical/warm water fish, the fat is less harmful.

 

[jack3d]

a few points that might help you :

- according to peat , a PUFA consumption under 4g a day is protective against cancer so around that should be the very beneficial area.

- the most damage is caused by stored PUFA , if the PUFA gets used up before it gets stored it does less damage but still not ideal.

- vitamin E helps to counter PUFA , but it is less ideal than avoiding PUFA.

- brown rice is a strong 5ARi , you better avoid it if you dont want to lower your DHT, i would stick to white rice.

- not all PUFAs are the same, the most "evil" one is linoleic acid, so avoiding it should have a high priority.

- commercial chicken and eggs contain linoleic and arachidonic acid so consuming high amounts of those can be inflammatory, so mind the amounts, egg yolks contain most of the fatty acids so maybe avoiding those could help , despite them being very nutrient dense...

- salmon and tilapia dont only contain high amounts of PUFA , they are almost always farmed in bad conditions and are very toxic, if you like fish stick to cod and sol, rule of thumb is that if its a cold water fish, low fat is good and if its a tropical/warm water fish, the fat is less harmful.

Isn't DHT something to do with testosterone? So brown rice can lower testosterone? Interesting

 

[sunraiser]

You are young and healthy - do not go down this path when you don't have to.

Eat real foods you enjoy, mostly unprocessed. Use and move your body however feels good, don't obsess about image or strength.

Try to find social, spiritual and physical balance in your life and give to others. All my healthiest and happiest friends do not think one bit about how they eat. Some have great physiques.

Just live - this forum is for people trying ti figure out complex problems while limited by the pressures of everyday life.

Honestly, it's probably not wise or healthy for you to frequent here. I mean this in the most positive way!

 

[raypeatclips]

Please don't get orthorexia from this place at 16. You said you were already going to an eating disorder specialist, so guessing you might have a tendency to this in your past.

Just avoid fried food, and things like mayo. Rest of the time just eat what you want and if something makes you feel consistently unwell consider not eating it. Other than that please don't worry about your diet and just enjoy yourself! I'd kill to go back to being 16 knowing what I know now and just not care and have an absolute blast. You're too young to be over analysing your diet

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

In traditional societies, the available food and the way people eat them has been tailored to health and least amount of side effects from food choices( beans and grains are soaked, fermented, sprouted etc, certain combinations of foods should be avoided etc.), and the family raises their children having these things in mind, so they bear this weight on their shoulders for their offspring. that way, said offspring doesn't have to worry about hese things. Nowadays, with so much misinformation from the midia and also from the doctors, both of which fool people into believing that eating soybean oil will make you less likely to have a heart attack and that eating carbs will make you diabetic, the family doesnt have the knowledge of what is good and what is bad for their children anymore. It is really sad, because the last thing any parent wants to do is to give their children something toxic or deprive them of something necessary, so they listen to the so colled "experts". In this current world, you either believe the lies that are told by the medical system or you seek a way out and try to find the truth about how nutition really works. And once you start to discover theories and expalantions that actually make sense, it's hard to unsee it. I think it's healthy what you are doing. You are actively searching new ways to feel better and more energetic. Regarding the eating disorder,I don't know what disorder you have or if you have any and it's totally fine if you don't want to talk about it. I guess it's only natural to want to avoid something if you have seen enough evidence that it is in fact bad for you, or if it makes you feel unwell. Just make sure not to think about it all the time. Leave some time for you to think about these things, preferably a small amount of time, like 10 or 15 minutes, since it can sometimes be stressful to think about toxins in foods and such things. By planning what you want to avoid, it can save you time and energy and rip the benefits of avoiding what you want to avoid, all of that at the same time you are not worrying much about it. Definitely, the worst ofender is pufa, so simply minimizing it a lot will help you big time. Keeping it below 4 grams is alrealdy great, but don't worry too much if you go a little above it by consuming healthy things( milk, meat, etc.)
I started thinking about nutrition issues when I was around 14. My health was going downhill and no doctor was helping me. My parents wanted to help me, but they didn't know much about biology or nutrition, and still don't( they simply don't like it, which is alright, it isn't supposed to be their job to help people with ilnesses, that's the job of doctors, which didn't help me at all.). I'm scared to think where I would be if I hadn't started thinking about these things when I was that young. Luckily I did and I am improving and am much better than I was back then. My situation is probably diferent from yours, so I'm not saying "follow my path" and even if the situatuoin was the same, it is better that each person finds their own way of doing things, like you are doing now. My view is different from sunraiser's and raypeatclips in that regard, but that's fine. The more points of view, the better. :)

 

[joaonoch]

Wow, this forum is depressingly, hilariously orthorexic. I am also 16 and can see my former (14yo) self writing exactly those words. I'm over it now.

Pm me at joaonoch (at) gmail (dot) com because I reckon I could help you big time.

 

[Bingo]

It is great you found Peat at this young age. The advice to not stress about food is excellent. That said, you will be bombarded with diet advice, so may as well read up on good advice. Wish I had found Peat at that age. I would have been armed with so many better choices for myself and my family. For me, reading Peat has been like an inoculation against a lot of the mainstream diet advice. Sometimes, I have to come back and re-read to keep clear headed. You will likely have to face the well-meaning family member who tells you orange juice is very dangerous, and insists the diet should be based on raw vegetables with salmon. Your doctor, parents, health coaches, workout coaches, and friends will all quote the latest articles in Men's Health like they are scientifically proven. It is possible to remain informed and not stress about eating perfectly? It's not about one meal or snack with a friend, it's about the long haul. It is better to eat crappy food than to go hungry. Even Peat has said the important thing is to eat to increase metabolism, without worrying so much about what you eat. Just avoiding pufa in general and learning what foods make you feel good will be such a leap forward, and with time on your side.

 

[joaonoch]

Bingo had some good advice. And sun raider.

As I understand it you've been around the nutritional block a few times.

I haven't crunched any numbers but I expect you would be consuming too much arsenic from the rice, in the long term.

 

[Waremu]

Bingo had some good advice. And sun raider.

As I understand it you've been around the nutritional block a few times.

I haven't crunched any numbers but I expect you would be consuming too much arsenic from the rice, in the long term.

Boiling rice/cooking it like pasta after soaking it dramatically reduces arsenic. Organic white rice often will have less as well.

 

[Waremu]

You're young, and I wouldn't stress about food in an unhealthy way. However, I disagree with some of the other comments here with regards to not focusing much on these things because you're young, partly because it's a healthy habit to get into eating fairly healthy while young and is often harder for people to break that habit of unhealthy eating when they start later, and often with more health issues due to the cumulative damage.

So I'd say, maybe you don't need to be as strict as many of us are (thats up to you), but maybe just focus on eating an all around healthy diets and keeping the worst stuff low. For example, eat a healthy whole foods diet but all the stuff that is the worst (avoid excess iron, get enough glycine and calcium, avoid PUFA, etc.) keep low. This approach is actually very easy to do and any if not most kids can follow such an approach without much stressful thinking going into it. The food choices are plentiful and you limit the worst stuff at least. Meats, greens, fruit, white rice, potatoes, dairy, sour dough white bread, broth, fish, etc. are all plentiful and easy to stick to and very hard to get tired of as you can make all kinds of recipes out of them.

 

[Wolf]

I'm young and healthy now. Sometimes I have to eat fast food because it makes more sense than starving my body for several hours. I take vitamin e and the b vitamins and I'm just fine.
There's more damage in overthinking and creating anxiety than eating a little bit of PUFA every now and then.

 

[tara]

The peat diet is about being minimal fat- how low in fat can I go?

Some people's version of a Peat-inspired diet is low/minimal fat, and it seems to work well for some. But not everybody's is, and last I heard Peat has not said everybody should do that. I doubt that he would recommend it generally for all teenagers, and I think it could be quite risky.
I am no expert, but in general, and not taking into account specific conditions, I would guess that many teens and young adults would find their optimum somewhere between 20-35% calories as fat, and might suffer if they pushed it too much lower for too long. Maybe somewhere between 70 -130g fat? Taste may be a good guide for many people, if they ave access to good nourishing food.

I think a 16 year old would be wise not to be too restrictive in his diet unless there are serious personal reactions to specific foods.
By all means choose more saturated fats over PUFAs where you can.
Some growing teens and young adults would find it hard to eat enough energy/calories without including some fat, and some people find their hormones benefit from including some. According to Gwyneth Olwyn (I Need How Many Calories?!!), young adult males still growing and maturing up to the age of about 25 eat an average of around 3500 cals. No doubt there is some variation, depending on size, activity levels, etc. Being so restrictive with diet as to create a significant ongoing energy deficit can have some negative effects on the metabolism.

Peat pointed to a study where getting less than 4 grams PUFA/day seemed to be protective. For you personally, you can weigh that up with all your other nutritional needs and tastes and see what works for you. Depending what's available to you, >4g might be hard to do without compromising other needs. It's not a number worth killing oneself in other ways to achieve.

If I eat Salmon once a week is it bad? I can't fully commit to the diet (yet) because my parents would have a hard time understanding why I can't eat salmon- plus I'm already going to a dietician/eating "disorder" specialist (although that's a whole 'nother story) so I don't think I could get away with that. But I'm trying to eat as peaty AS POSSIBLE.

There's no 'can't' about it. You can eat anything you want.
I think it probably makes sense to look at the whole picture, which includes your connections with other people, and your current health state, the options available to you, and importantly what tastes good and what your body says it wants.
What kind of eating disorder?
Depending what it is, and how severe, it might be much more important for your health to successfully address than to be at all restrictive about PUFA at this time.
Personally, I love to eat a little salmon occasionally, and I do. I just don't eat it often or in large quantities. I eat non-oily fish often.

Eat real foods you enjoy, ...Try to find social, spiritual and physical balance in your life and give to others.

+1

It is better to eat crappy food than to go hungry. Even Peat has said the important thing is to eat to increase metabolism, without worrying so much about what you eat. Just avoiding pufa in general and learning what foods make you feel good will be such a leap forward, and with time on your side.

+1

 

[SOMO]

16 and already Orthorexic?
So sad. Live a little. If you hang out on this forum, you will drive yourself insane trying to tweak your diet and supplements to be "perfect" and healthy lol.

Salmon cooked in some lemon-butter with garlic is a healthy, balanced meal that will not impact your health negatively.

Salmon tastes better than cod too. Cod is to seafood as plain chicken breast is to meat - boring.
Salmon is the medium-rare "steak" of the sea.


Even if you ate McDonalds, at age 16 your physiology will automatically detox everything and mitigate any damage eating crap would do to someone much older.

 

[tara]

Salmon tastes better than cod too. Cod is to seafood as plain chicken breast is to meat - boring.

Hey, cod can be delicious too. :)

 

[TeaRex14]

Just avoid vegetable oils, nuts, seeds, and fatty chicken/pork and you'll be fine. VLFD (very low fat diet) can be good for weight loss, but probably shouldn't be maintained over several years.