What Ray Said

[charlie]

Ok. Being high thyroid would mean you would convert your cholesterol to steroid hormone but yours was remaining high. Do you think it was because you were supplementing A at the same time as food sources of A?

I only supplemented A for a very short time. This was mostly from food.

 

[Peatress]

I only supplemented A for a very short time. This was mostly from food.

Is it possible to be high thyroid and still be vitamin A poisoned? I would think the vitamin A would suppress your thyroid

 

[charlie]

Is it possible to be high thyroid and still be vitamin A poisoned? I would think the vitamin A would suppress your thyroid

If you are taking thyroid supplement then yes, it is overpowering the vA toxicity but with detrimental effects that I witnessed personally.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

A couple ounces of liver a couple times a week. Couple eggs a day, oysters were more hit and miss, chocolate was my thing because it helped with digestion a lot at the time so at least a couple squares a day.

I don’t eat the weekly liver or oysters, and I don’t eat the egg whites, and buy my eggs corn and soy free, and my milk is raw. I quit eating the chocolate because of the heavy metals. I am doing great, so I wonder if those things are making the good healthy difference for me?

 

[charlie]

I don’t eat the weekly liver or oysters, and I don’t eat the egg whites, and buy my eggs corn and soy free, and my milk is raw. I quit eating the chocolate because of the heavy metals. I am doing great, so I wonder if those things are making the good healthy difference for me?

Well I did not eat liver very long because I could not stand it. I would try to convince myself it was good and tasted good but I would always end up dropping the habit, thank God.

 

[Nick]

Is it possible to be high thyroid and still be vitamin A poisoned? I would think the vitamin A would suppress your thyroid

If the excess vitamin A is all being sequestered in the liver and other tissues (fat, organs, calcifications) there may not be much thyroid suppression until the liver is too full or becomes leaky (could be due to other toxins and EMF), or until the tissue stores are freed, for example by fat loss or de-calcification (for example by vitamin K or magnesium), at which point more free retinoids would be getting into the blood unbound to RPB.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Well I did not eat liver very long because I could not stand it. I would try to convince myself it was good and tasted good but I would always end up dropping the habit, thank God.

I can’t eat liver from the grocery store. I think that is a whole other issue, and probably why I hated it as a child, and still in most restaurants. It is meant to be eaten very fresh, and there is no strong flavor when really fresh. Forcing down food is not a healthy thing. I think our cravings is our body telling us what we need, and possibly what it needs to strengthen our blood type. I appreciate the work Ray Peat did with science, and how we each apply it is going to be different. I often wonder if he was not an “O” blood type, thriving on so milk and orange juice. I so love really fresh raw oysters, they feel really right for me. As an example of your new diet, what did you eat yesterday Charlie?

 

[charlie]

I can’t eat liver from the grocery store.

I got it from a local family farm.

As an example of your new diet, what did you eat yesterday Charlie?

I posted my diet in the new thread I made today about the low toxin lifestyle.

 

[Peatress]

There’s definitely a lot that can poison us these days. I think there are multiple assaults on the body, besides vitamin A. The medical history, and dietary practices, of the people who have been poisoned is very complex. This is why I hesitate to give low vitamin A credit for what could easily be attributed to very low fat and general toxin free diet.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I got it from a local family farm.

I posted my diet in the new thread I made today about the low toxin lifestyle.

I buy my liver having been frozen right away. I will go take a look at your new thread. Thanks!

 

[charlie]

I buy my liver having been frozen right away. I will go take a look at your new thread. Thanks!

Here ya go: Low Toxin Logs - Charlie's Low Toxin Lifestyle (diet, supplements, etc)

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

@Many doctors advise constipated patients to drink more water and exercise. While there is some physiological basis for recommending exercise, the advice to drink more water is simply unphysiological. A study in Latin America found no evidence of benefit from either of those recommendations, and recommended the use of fiber in the diet. The right kind of fiber can benefit a variety of bowel problems. However, some types of fiber can exacerbate the problem, and some types (such as oat bran) have been found to increase bowel cancer in animal studies.“
-Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“The various specific actions of the many estrogenic substances in beans and other legumes haven't been throughly studied, but there is evidence that they are also--like estrogen itself--both mutagenic and carcinogenic.” -Ray Peat

 

[charlie]

However, some types of fiber can exacerbate the problem, and some types (such as oat bran) have been found to increase bowel cancer in animal studies.“

Ray was eating oats the last year of his life. Did he change his mind?

“The various specific actions of the many estrogenic substances in beans and other legumes haven't been throughly studied, but there is evidence that they are also--like estrogen itself--both mutagenic and carcinogenic.” -Ray Peat

He completely missed the part that the soluble fiber in beans stimulates bile and then grabs onto it while moving it out to the toilet.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Ray was eating oats the last year of his life. Did he change his mind?

I think an 80+ year old man’s needs is different than someone half that age. Eating occasional oats for constipstion is different than starting a day everyday which oats. Not only do they contribute to weak teeth and sensitivity, but overall they have their issues, despite their benefit. I am not opposed to having oats, I make cookies and pancakes with sprouted oats instead..

“Many doctors advise constipated patients to drink more water and exercise. While there is some physiological basis for recommending exercise, the advice to drink more water is simply unphysiological. A study in Latin America found no evidence of benefit from either of those recommendations, and recommended the use of fiber in the diet. The right kind of fiber can benefit a variety of bowel problems. However, some types of fiber can exacerbate the problem, and some types (such as oat bran) have been found to increase bowel cancer in animal studies.“
-Ray Peat

 

[charlie]

I think an 80+ year old man’s needs is different than someone half that age. Eating occasional oats for constipstion is different than starting a day everyday which oats.

I thought he was eating them on the daily?

Not only do they contribute to weak teeth and sensitivity,

I am not seeing that. I wonder if it was something else in your diet at the time.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

He completely missed the part that the soluble fiber in beans stimulates bile and then grabs onto it while moving it out to the toilet.

I don’t think he missed the benefit of beans. He said a half cup of them once in awhile had some benefits, and he said he enjoyed his humus once in awhile. I think where the problem arises in eating them is when it become all the time. Sure they get things “moving”, but if that is not a problem then they add estrogen. It is to my always point that something can be good until it is overused and then goes in the wrong direction, south.

 

[charlie]

I don’t think he missed the benefit of beans. He said a half cup of them once in awhile had some benefits, and he said he enjoyed his humus once in awhile. I think where the problem arises in eating them is when it become all the time. Sure they get things “moving”, but if that is not a problem then they add estrogen. It is to my always point that something can be good until it is overused and then goes in the wrong direction, south.

Its all about context though. If copper is one of the main reasons of cancer, then eating beans with a cholestasitc liver indeed would eventually cause cancer or other problems. If the liver is working correctly and it is not being poisoned with "vitamin A" then there will be no cancer and quite the contrary there will be a thriving person.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I am not seeing that. I wonder if it was something else in your diet at the time.

All I did was cut out the grains add back in the milk and 10 years since my teeth are good. They do get sensitive when I overdo the oats, but not any other grains.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Its all about context though. If copper is one of the main reasons of cancer, then eating beans with a cholestasitc liver indeed would eventually cause cancer or other problems. If the liver is working correctly and it is not being poisoned with "vitamin A" then there will be no cancer and quite the contrary there will be a thriving person.

There is so much on the internet as to why grains are causing so many health problems that it is hard to know where to begin…​

​

“DETRIMENTAL EFFECTS​

High-phytate diets result in mineral deficiencies. In populations where cereal grains provide a major source of calories, rickets and osteoporosis are common.10

Interestingly, the body has some ability to adapt to the effects of phytates in the diet. Several studies show that subjects given high levels of whole wheat at first excrete more calcium than they take in, but after several weeks on this diet, they reach a balance and do not excrete excess calcium.11 However, no studies of this phenomenon have been carried out over a long period; nor have researchers looked at whether human beings can adjust to the phytate-reducing effects of other important minerals, such as iron, magnesium and zinc.

The zinc- and iron-blocking effects of phytic acid can be just as serious as the calcium-blocking effects. For example, one study showed that a wheat roll containing 2 mg phytic acid inhibited zinc absorption by 18 percent; 25 mg phytic acid in the roll inhibited zinc absorption by 64 percent; and 250 mg inhibited zinc absorption by 82 percent.12 Nuts have a marked inhibitory action on the absorption of iron due to their phytic acid content.13

Over the long term, when the diet lacks minerals or contains high levels of phytates or both, the metabolism goes down, and the body goes into mineral-starvation mode. The body then sets itself up to use as little of these minerals as possible. Adults may get by for decades on a high-phytate diet, but growing children run into severe problems. In a phytate-rich diet, their bodies will suffer from the lack of calcium and phosphorus with poor bone growth, short stature, rickets, narrow jaws and tooth decay; and for the lack of zinc and iron with anemia and mental retardation.

THE EXPERIMENTS OF EDWARD MELLANBY​

As early as 1949, the researcher Edward Mellanby demonstrated the demineralizing effects of phytic acid. By studying how grains with and without phytic acid affect dogs, Mellanby discovered that consumption of high-phytate cereal grain interferes with bone growth and interrupts vitamin D metabolism. High levels of phytic acid in the context of a diet low in calcium and vitamin D resulted in rickets and a severe lack of bone formation.

His studies showed that excessive phytate consumption uses up vitamin D. Vitamin D can mitigate the harmful effects of phytates, but according to Mellanby, “When the diet is rich in phytate, perfect bone formation can only be procured if sufficient calcium is added to a diet containing vitamin D.”20

Mellanby’s studies showed that the rickets-producing effect of oatmeal is limited by calcium.21 Calcium salts such as calcium carbonate or calcium phosphate prevent oatmeal from exerting rickets-producing effect. According to this view, the degree of active interference with calcification produced by a given cereal will depend on how much phytic acid and how little calcium it contains, or how little calcium the diet contains. Phosphorus in the diet (at least from grains) needs some type of calcium to bind to. This explains the synergistic combination of sourdough bread with cheese. Historically, the cultivation of grains usually accompanies the raising of dairy animals; high levels of calcium in the diet mitigates the mineral-depleting effects of phytic acid.

In Mellanby’s experiments with dogs, increasing vitamin D made stronger bones regardless of the diet, but this increase did not have a significant impact on the amount of calcium excreted. Those on diets high in phytate excreted lots of calcium; those on diets high in phosphorus from meat or released from phytic acid through proper preparation excreted small amounts of calcium.

Based on Mellanby’s thorough experiments, one can conclude that the growth of healthy bones requires a diet high in vitamin D, absorbable calcium and absorbable phosphorus, and a diet low in unabsorbable calcium (supplements, pasteurized dairy) and unabsorbable phosphorus (phytates). Interestingly, his experiments showed that unbleached flour and white rice were less anti-calcifying than whole grains that contain more minerals but also were higher in phytic acid. Other experiments have shown that while whole grains contain more minerals, in the end equal or lower amounts of minerals are absorbed compared to polished rice and white flour. This outcome is primarily a result of the blocking mechanism of phytic acid, but may be secondarily the result of other anti-nutrients in grains.

Thus, absorbable calcium from bone broths and raw dairy products, and vitamin D from certain animal fats, can reduce the adverse effects of phytic acid.”

Living With Phytic Acid

🖨️ Print post Phytic acid is one of a number of “anti-nutrients” in grains and legumes. For an introduction to this subject, please see this article. Proper preparation […]

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