Switching to OJ concentrate and powdered milk makes a huge difference

[Sefton10]

I’m grateful for this. I love going to my local farm. I just went today to pick up my goat’s milk for the week and got to play with the new kids and the dogs. I’ve become friendly with the owners over the years and absolutely adore them. I enjoy getting to chat with them and they have always been open about their farming practices. There were two important factors to me when choosing a farm so by talking with them, and getting to see and interact with the animals, I learned they were the right farm for me and I feel good about supporting all the great work they’re doing. They’ve really gone out of their way to help me, especially when I was at my sickest, and I wish more people were given the opportunity to speak with their local farmers and tour the farms. It’s such hard and important work they’re doing.

Couldn’t agree more. I recently switched to A2 dairy, which led to a search for a local supply. Goats came up blank but I found a small farm selling Jersey milk around 10 miles away. The milk is a little more expensive, but they also sell free range eggs and their own cheeses, so it makes the trip once or twice a week worthwhile. Just this morning I was there stroking the newborn calfs and speaking with the farmer, who handed me a box of eggs he’d collected 5 minutes earlier. Those relationships and putting money back into the local food supply where possible are vital, we should all do more of it when we can with the way the world is going at the moment!

 

[Dr. B]

Couldn’t agree more. I recently switched to A2 dairy, which led to a search for a local supply. Goats came up blank but I found a small farm selling Jersey milk around 10 miles away. The milk is a little more expensive, but they also sell free range eggs and their own cheeses, so it makes the trip once or twice a week worthwhile. Just this morning I was there stroking the newborn calfs and speaking with the farmer, who handed me a box of eggs he’d collected 5 minutes earlier. Those relationships and putting money back into the local food supply where possible are vital, we should all do more of it when we can with the way the world is going at the moment!

what price are you paying for the jersey milk

 

[Jennifer]

Couldn’t agree more. I recently switched to A2 dairy, which led to a search for a local supply. Goats came up blank but I found a small farm selling Jersey milk around 10 miles away. The milk is a little more expensive, but they also sell free range eggs and their own cheeses, so it makes the trip once or twice a week worthwhile. Just this morning I was there stroking the newborn calfs and speaking with the farmer, who handed me a box of eggs he’d collected 5 minutes earlier. Those relationships and putting money back into the local food supply where possible are vital, we should all do more of it when we can with the way the world is going at the moment!

That’s great! I’m glad you were able to find that farm. It’s always nice when a farm carries a few different products to make the trip worthwhile. It sounds similar to the biodynamic farm near my house. They have a herd of Jerseys and make their own cheeses, yogurts, ice cream, sell eggs, produce, and products from small, local businesses. I’m fortunate that in the State I live in, there are excellent farms all over and raw milk is even legal to sell in retail stores here, but goat’s milk is a little harder to come by and the farm I get mine from is 30 miles away. It’s not so bad, though. I’m able to get 14 L at a time so I only have to make the trip once a week.

 

[Lejeboca]

I am on (almost) exclusively powdered milk for about 1.5 years already. Started on it because I couldn't find a good low-fat milk in the US that I could digest. I reckon that the culprit is the added vitamins in milk because I could digest whole milk better and didn't have problems with low-fat milk in Europe.
I feel only positive effects from powdered milk something like what fred mentioned above w.r.t. t3, in addition to better digestion.

Re: taste
I actually make a milk drink with a shot of espresso, especially in the morning. I also add sugar and salt to the powder, mix in a bit of cold water first, then add boiled water sinceI like my milk warm. I mix separately gelatin, about 1/4-1/3 of the powder milk volume, with coffee. Then combine with the milk mix.

Re: nanoparticles
I talked to the producer, Bob's Red Mill in this case. They've described the process and assured that they do not use anything else against clumping or for easier packaging. I've also heard somewhere but do not remember where now that the low-fat milk we buy in the store is actually re-hydrated powdered milk anyway.

On a recent podcast with Danny and Georgi, when they all talked about prepping, Ray has mentioned that he used powdered milk way beyond its "expiration date" and that it tasted just fine.

 

[Lejeboca]

Can anyone suggest a good brand of the OJ concentrate in the US? When I looked, which was sometime ago, I didn't see anything w/o citric acid added. Thank you.

 

[Dr. B]

The additional water content is really anti-thyroid, at least in people with already weak thyroids.

Just wanted to share.

Be careful with concentrates with added sugar, because non-organic sugar may have glyphosate.

do you think a half gallon whole milk per day, plus 16 oz OJ and 16 oz coconut water is fine liquid wise or should it be even lower? no plain water or other liquids. why does water or liquid consumption have this anti thyroid effect? it definitely seems true because when I had a better metabolism i would actually feel thirstier.
i was thinking of having the half gallon milk plus OJ and coconut water, and then just eating some whey protein powder with a spoon or drinking out of a cup. (enough to supply around 150g protein)

unflavored whey protein tastes pretty gross mixed with water, but tastes fine just eaten on its own or mixed with orange juice or chocolate syrup. im glad i realized i could just eat the stuff cuz it was difficult drinking it mixed with water, gross taste plus just too much liquids.

do you think its better to keep fluid intake low, even with good thyroid function? or should we be drinking based on thirst? because some people if they drink based off thirst will drink a gallon of fluid a day or even 1.5 to 2 gallons water/liquid a day... plus all the media and internet promoting huge water intakes for 'detoxing'

was also curious what are you doing with the OJ concentrate? are you mixing with water or how are you reducing water intake compared to just drinking some organic OJ?

it makes sense that water consumption would decrease body temperature... whereas milk and juices could have a neutral or increasing effect due to the nutrients, sugars etc

 

[Razvan]

do you think a half gallon whole milk per day, plus 16 oz OJ and 16 oz coconut water is fine liquid wise or should it be even lower? no plain water or other liquids. why does water or liquid consumption have this anti thyroid effect? it definitely seems true because when I had a better metabolism i would actually feel thirstier.
i was thinking of having the half gallon milk plus OJ and coconut water, and then just eating some whey protein powder with a spoon or drinking out of a cup. (enough to supply around 150g protein)

unflavored whey protein tastes pretty gross mixed with water, but tastes fine just eaten on its own or mixed with orange juice or chocolate syrup. im glad i realized i could just eat the stuff cuz it was difficult drinking it mixed with water, gross taste plus just too much liquids.

do you think its better to keep fluid intake low, even with good thyroid function? or should we be drinking based on thirst? because some people if they drink based off thirst will drink a gallon of fluid a day or even 1.5 to 2 gallons water/liquid a day... plus all the media and internet promoting huge water intakes for 'detoxing'

If you compensate with sodium you can drink how much you want lol it's not antithyroid,it can be antithyroid because of the sodium loss if you don't compensate.

 

[Dr. B]

If you compensate with sodium you can drink how much you want lol it's not antithyroid,it can be antithyroid because of the sodium loss if you don't compensate.

is sodium the only thing being lost or all electrolytes like potasisum magnesium etc. so the sodium would be needed even with juices and milks? milk has a bit of sodium but OJ and coconut water barely have any, while having lots of potassium

 

[Razvan]

is sodium the only thing being lost or all electrolytes like potasisum magnesium etc. so the sodium would be needed even with juices and milks? milk has a bit of sodium but OJ and coconut water barely have any, while having lots of potassium

Potassium is not being lost as milk and OJ are full of potassium. If you take baking soda with OJ you are going to retain more magnesium.

 

[Dr. B]

Potassium is not being lost as milk and OJ are full of potassium. If you take baking soda with OJ you are going to retain more magnesium.

drinking plain water does that leech all electrolytes

 

[lampofred]

do you think a half gallon whole milk per day, plus 16 oz OJ and 16 oz coconut water is fine liquid wise or should it be even lower? no plain water or other liquids. why does water or liquid consumption have this anti thyroid effect? it definitely seems true because when I had a better metabolism i would actually feel thirstier.
i was thinking of having the half gallon milk plus OJ and coconut water, and then just eating some whey protein powder with a spoon or drinking out of a cup. (enough to supply around 150g protein)

unflavored whey protein tastes pretty gross mixed with water, but tastes fine just eaten on its own or mixed with orange juice or chocolate syrup. im glad i realized i could just eat the stuff cuz it was difficult drinking it mixed with water, gross taste plus just too much liquids.

do you think its better to keep fluid intake low, even with good thyroid function? or should we be drinking based on thirst? because some people if they drink based off thirst will drink a gallon of fluid a day or even 1.5 to 2 gallons water/liquid a day... plus all the media and internet promoting huge water intakes for 'detoxing'

was also curious what are you doing with the OJ concentrate? are you mixing with water or how are you reducing water intake compared to just drinking some organic OJ?

it makes sense that water consumption would decrease body temperature... whereas milk and juices could have a neutral or increasing effect due to the nutrients, sugars etc

Peat mentioned that milk and orange juice are "osmotically balanced" with sugar and minerals, so they won't have anti thyroid effects like plain water will. The concentrate and milk powder are just even more pro-thyroid but I don't think sticking to plain milk and OJ in the long-run would be anti-thyroid. I don't know about coconut water though, it may be more anti-thyroid than OJ/milk, since it doesn't have sugar or protein.

Water is antithyroid because I think the fundamental purpose of thyroid is to regular water/salt balance. So water is fundamentally anti-thyroid, salt is fundamentally pro-thyroid.

I'd say it's best to rely on thirst, neither restricting water intake to the extent that it becomes uncomfortable nor guzzling gallons a day for "detox" even when you're not thirsty.

Also just letting you know in case you didn't that whey is high in tryptophan/serotonin, so Peat doesn't view it favorably.

 

[Dr. B]

Peat mentioned that milk and orange juice are "osmotically balanced" with sugar and minerals, so they won't have anti thyroid effects like plain water will. The concentrate and milk powder are just even more pro-thyroid but I don't think sticking to plain milk and OJ in the long-run would be anti-thyroid. I don't know about coconut water though, it may be more anti-thyroid than OJ/milk, since it doesn't have sugar or protein.

Water is antithyroid because I think the fundamental purpose of thyroid is to regular water/salt balance. So water is fundamentally anti-thyroid, salt is fundamentally pro-thyroid.

I'd say it's best to rely on thirst, neither restricting water intake to the extent that it becomes uncomfortable nor guzzling gallons a day for "detox" even when you're not thirsty.

Also just letting you know in case you didn't that whey is high in tryptophan/serotonin, so Peat doesn't view it favorably.

the coconut water has sugars but its less. its 11g carbs/sugars per 8oz serving, 45 calories whereas obviously OJ and Milk have more calories though milk is also just 12g sugars per 8oz cup. the coco water has potassium, lots of manganese (0.62 mg per 8oz), magnesium etc not sure if that changes things. actually it has around 45mg calcium, 24mg phosphorus and 24mg magnesium so the CA:P ratio is good even though overall amount in 8oz is small.

yeah so from what im seeing, milk/OJ should be neutral. water has anti thyroid effect. salt pro thyroid. but that does mean in worse thyroid conditions it would be better to avoid water, increase salt, and prefer powdered milk/OJ concentrate opposed to liquid OJ and milk? the liquid/OJ may have net neutral effect but if looking to improve thyroid function you would need to do additional things with milk/OJ like adding salt or going for powder/concentrate?

how do you consume the OJ concentrate do you just eat it because doesnt adding water or liquid to it destroy the point.

yeah did see some stuff from him on it, but im wondering doesnt milk have tryptophan, as well as doesnt muscle meats and other things have even more? the whey protein has like 350mg tryptophan per 25g protein serving, is that considered a large amount? whey i extremely high in BCAA, i think is the highest BCAA food out there, and it also has glycine around 1:1 with tryptophan. im not sure how to get in more protein because a full gallon of milk is a lot of fat, dont want to do the muscle meats or cheeses. i was thinkign of doing half gallon milk plus eating the whey powder.

 

[lampofred]

yeah so from what im seeing, milk/OJ should be neutral. water has anti thyroid effect. salt pro thyroid. but that does mean in worse thyroid conditions it would be better to avoid water, increase salt, and prefer powdered milk/OJ concentrate opposed to liquid OJ and milk? the liquid/OJ may have net neutral effect but if looking to improve thyroid function you would need to do additional things with milk/OJ like adding salt or going for powder/concentrate?

how do you consume the OJ concentrate do you just eat it because doesnt adding water or liquid to it destroy the point.

yeah did see some stuff from him on it, but im wondering doesnt milk have tryptophan, as well as doesnt muscle meats and other things have even more? the whey protein has like 350mg tryptophan per 25g protein serving, is that considered a large amount? whey i extremely high in BCAA, i think is the highest BCAA food out there, and it also has glycine around 1:1 with tryptophan. im not sure how to get in more protein because a full gallon of milk is a lot of fat, dont want to do the muscle meats or cheeses. i was thinkign of doing half gallon milk plus eating the whey powder.

Yeah that's how I see it.

I just let it thaw and then just drink it. No water added. It does taste worse than normal OJ, so I've been switching back and forth...

Calcium causes tryptophan to convert into niacin instead of sertonin, so milk's high tryptophan content isn't a problem if you can digest the milk well and absorb the calcium well. I think lower amounts of overall protein would be preferable to consuming high amounts of tryptophan along with a poor calcium/phosphate ratio. For more protein, eat more eggs and low fat fish like cod maybe? With small fish you can eat the whole animal so you will get bones and gelatin unlike with muscle meat (I don't know whether Peat has ever said anything about eating fish with bone.)

 

[lampofred]

I should change my OP to say "the reduction in water content is pro-thyroid" as opposed to "the additional water content is anti-thyroid" but I can't edit my post...

 

[tankasnowgod]

how do you consume the OJ concentrate do you just eat it because doesnt adding water or liquid to it destroy the point.

Well, if you add the full recommended amount of water, it does.

I am experimenting a bit with this, and using less water when doing the concentrate. It says it makes 48 oz of juice, but I have just been adding enough to fit in a quart Mason Jar (so maybe 31-32 oz, I don't fill it to the brim).

I might just try using the concentrate straight at some point. I've been thinking that some/most of the benefits of fasting might just be due to a reduction of volume/mass intake, and not so much calories. Dry Fasting, even more so.

This thread and the following post on Free The Animal got me thinking more about this-

I Met A Dry Fasting Nut | Free The Animal

I Met A Dry Fasting Nut | Free The Animal is a classic blog that begun 20 years ago in 2003. It has over 5000 post on a wide range of topics from diet and health to politics, social issues, international living, travel, geoarbitrage, and food.

www.freetheanimal.com

People always talk about "Calories In, Calories Out," all while ignoring the zero calorie elephant in the room that makes up (much) more than 50% of body weight...... water.

"Pounds In, Pounds Out" or "Kilograms In, Kilograms Out" would be an even more accurate formula. Plus, you wouldn't have to do some weird calculation from calories back to weight or mass, since it would already be in the formula.

This woman lost 30 pounds in 7 days dry fasting-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqXg0uc1N-4


Admittedly, she had a lot of weight to lose, but it doesn't appear that she just lost whatever was in her GI tract and glycogen. It was probably that, some fat loss, some muscle loss..... and a lot of excess water loss, from either water logged cells, or maybe collected fluid. I've been looking up some videos on ascetis, and doctors can drain some crazy amounts of fluid from some of these patients..... some, 10 liters of fluid, which might be around 20-25 pounds, depending on how dense it is compared to water.

Here's a dog who they drained fluid from, and a week after the tap, the dog was 24 pounds lighter (starting around 2:50)-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vkjL_tYDKY


You can find human drainings on Youtube as well.

I'm wondering how large a problem this is. Most people who are "obese" or "overweight" don't look as much like they carry a lot of extra fat. It more looks like they are an overinflated water balloon.

I'm wondering if adding dense carbs (like honey or maple syrup or juice concentrate) to an otherwise "dry fast" would have similar or better results.

 

[Dr. B]

Yeah that's how I see it.

I just let it thaw and then just drink it. No water added. It does taste worse than normal OJ, so I've been switching back and forth...

Calcium causes tryptophan to convert into niacin instead of sertonin, so milk's high tryptophan content isn't a problem if you can digest the milk well and absorb the calcium well. I think lower amounts of overall protein would be preferable to consuming high amounts of tryptophan along with a poor calcium/phosphate ratio. For more protein, eat more eggs and low fat fish like cod maybe? With small fish you can eat the whole animal so you will get bones and gelatin unlike with muscle meat (I don't know whether Peat has ever said anything about eating fish with bone.)

what is a good calcium phosphate ratio? isnt milks ratio fine?
additionally there is also coconut water which has them in 2:1. OJ provides small amounts calcium with no phosphate, and then ancestrals living bone product as well as shark cartilage if youre interested in those, provide calcium phosphorus in 2:1!

 

[Dr. B]

Well, if you add the full recommended amount of water, it does.

I am experimenting a bit with this, and using less water when doing the concentrate. It says it makes 48 oz of juice, but I have just been adding enough to fit in a quart Mason Jar (so maybe 31-32 oz, I don't fill it to the brim).

I might just try using the concentrate straight at some point. I've been thinking that some/most of the benefits of fasting might just be due to a reduction of volume/mass intake, and not so much calories. Dry Fasting, even more so.

This thread and the following post on Free The Animal got me thinking more about this-

I Met A Dry Fasting Nut | Free The Animal

I Met A Dry Fasting Nut | Free The Animal is a classic blog that begun 20 years ago in 2003. It has over 5000 post on a wide range of topics from diet and health to politics, social issues, international living, travel, geoarbitrage, and food.

www.freetheanimal.com

People always talk about "Calories In, Calories Out," all while ignoring the zero calorie elephant in the room that makes up (much) more than 50% of body weight...... water.

"Pounds In, Pounds Out" or "Kilograms In, Kilograms Out" would be an even more accurate formula. Plus, you wouldn't have to do some weird calculation from calories back to weight or mass, since it would already be in the formula.

This woman lost 30 pounds in 7 days dry fasting-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqXg0uc1N-4


Admittedly, she had a lot of weight to lose, but it doesn't appear that she just lost whatever was in her GI tract and glycogen. It was probably that, some fat loss, some muscle loss..... and a lot of excess water loss, from either water logged cells, or maybe collected fluid. I've been looking up some videos on ascetis, and doctors can drain some crazy amounts of fluid from some of these patients..... some, 10 liters of fluid, which might be around 20-25 pounds, depending on how dense it is compared to water.

Here's a dog who they drained fluid from, and a week after the tap, the dog was 24 pounds lighter (starting around 2:50)-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vkjL_tYDKY


You can find human drainings on Youtube as well.

I'm wondering how large a problem this is. Most people who are "obese" or "overweight" don't look as much like they carry a lot of extra fat. It more looks like they are an overinflated water balloon.

I'm wondering if adding dense carbs (like honey or maple syrup or juice concentrate) to an otherwise "dry fast" would have similar or better results.

its very interesting. basically, reducing water and liquid intake, without changing calories, can actually literally promote fat loss and boost the metabolism?

 

[tankasnowgod]

its very interesting. basically, reducing water and liquid intake, without changing calories, can actually literally promote fat loss and boost the metabolism?

I wasn't really suggesting it could "promote fat loss," so much as what is often thought of as "fat" might not really be "fat" at all. Although if it boosts metabolism (which it might), it could indeed boost it.

 

[Dr. B]

I wasn't really suggesting it could "promote fat loss," so much as what is often thought of as "fat" might not really be "fat" at all. Although if it boosts metabolism (which it might), it could indeed boost it.

doesnt water and liquid in general have a temperature lowering effect so the less liquid you consume you should be able to reach higher temperatures? the article seemed to imply the body can break fat down to obtain water from it

 

[tankasnowgod]

doesnt water and liquid in general have a temperature lowering effect so the less liquid you consume you should be able to reach higher temperatures? the article seemed to imply the body can break fat down to obtain water from it

Liquid can have a temperature lowering effect, but I don't think this generally applies to hot liquids.

Yes, the FTA article (and some studies) do suggest that your body can get water from fat (and carbs too), and that might play a role, but if you are carrying around extra fluid (water logged cells, edema, or abdominal ascites, for example), I would think this would be the first water that your body would absorb back into your bloodstream. Instead of fluid leaking out of your veins into cells or bodily cavities, the process would essentially reverse itself.