My Very Positive Experience And How I Did It

[Such_Saturation]

What exact kind of pregnenolone do they want us to take then

Flower Mantis' pregnenolone.

Can't I just cut someone's adrenal glands out? It's the evil dopamine that made me do it anyway.

This is exactly the kind of response
we've tried so hard to train you out of
here at The Ray Peat Forum, Such!

are you trying to steer a person, inactivating their own guidance system?

Yeah...you make a good point.
Tough call.

How about just one adrenal from each "donor"?
Okay?

I tell you what, let's package it as Ultimate Adrenal Support. Paleo hackers will be all over it, they basically have no sense of ethics we just have to market it well enough.

 

[narouz]

What exact kind of pregnenolone do they want us to take then

Flower Mantis' pregnenolone.

Can't I just cut someone's adrenal glands out? It's the evil dopamine that made me do it anyway.

This is exactly the kind of response
we've tried so hard to train you out of
here at The Ray Peat Forum, Such!

are you trying to steer a person, inactivating their own guidance system?

Yeah...you make a good point.
Tough call.

How about just one adrenal from each "donor"?
Okay?

I tell you what, let's package it as Ultimate Adrenal Support. Paleo hackers will be all over it, they basically have no sense of ethics we just have to market it well enough.

 

[Such_Saturation]

 

[narouz]

party pooper.

 

[Such_Saturation]

party pooper.

You're playing a dangerous game here, mr narouz

 

[Peat's_Girl]

The poop talk on this forum deserves its own smiley >;D

 

[chispas]

Yeah I'd also like to know the gut/yeast protocol. Besides eating a carrot.

This was my experience:

I bought regular fruit boxes with a range of fruit in them. About thirty pieces.

I ate as much as I liked, without regard for its ripeness. I didn't eat very much fruit in total, just a wide variety. I found that it started to give me mild, intermittent IBS symptoms, but I ignored this and pressed on because I thought that fruit was supposed to be all good.

After a little while, yeast infection showed up and stools became irregular. I decided to link these two phenomena in my thinking. I stopped the fruit, and started consuming some things I had avoided for a while: cold potatoes and sauerkraut. I believe the resistant starch and lactobacillus improved the gut conditions sufficiently that my IBS symptoms evidently went away quite quickly, and the yeast went away soon after that.

After it cleared up, I went back to fruit, this time introducing fruit piece by piece. I learnt that stone fruits were the biggest culprits. Oranges and kiwis don't bother me, neither do strawberries or blueberries or dates. I avoid apples and pears unless cooked, as well as all other fruit.

Orange juice is OK as long as it is good quality. As soon as I notice anything weird below the belt, I immediately suspect unripe fruit. Mandarins did it to me last.

 

[chispas]

Diet has evolved a bit more in recent times:

Just orange juice for breakfast with a large ice coffee (low-fat) and some salt and glycine in it. No more eggs/butter.

Dates for morning tea. No more cheese.

Fruit for lunch with milk. No meat or starch.

Dinner is starch and meat only, with a couple of vegetables, and more fruit.

I'm becoming more conscious of how burdensome meat production is on the planet, and I would like to find a compromise where I minimise meat consumption. I'm trying to lower protein intake without causing any troubles. I can't eat vegan frankenfoods, or tofu. I used to be vegetarian for 10 years, and I'm never going back.

On other note: niacinamide - wow! 1.5g seems to transport me into the happy-zone. Cannot stop laughing sometimes it's amazing, and feels great - seems to be enhanced in the presence of sugar.

 

[Peata]

post 103509 Diet has evolved a bit more in recent times:

Just orange juice for breakfast with a large ice coffee (low-fat) and some salt and glycine in it. No more eggs/butter.

Dates for morning tea. No more cheese.

Fruit for lunch with milk. No meat or starch.

Dinner is starch and meat only, with a couple of vegetables, and more fruit.

I'm becoming more conscious of how burdensome meat production is on the planet, and I would like to find a compromise where I minimise meat consumption. I'm trying to lower protein intake without causing any troubles. I can't eat vegan frankenfoods, or tofu. I used to be vegetarian for 10 years, and I'm never going back.

On other note: niacinamide - wow! 1.5g seems to transport me into the happy-zone. Cannot stop laughing sometimes it's amazing, and feels great - seems to be enhanced in the presence of sugar.

Glad you're still doing well.

How old are you, btw?

When you use niacinamide, are you taking it with any other supplement or foods/drink (you just said sugar).

I found from past experience the importance of not letting blood sugar drop when using niacinamide, or it can cause a persistent headache.

 

[Jake]

Allan Savory's TED talk is very worthwhile IMO, and might give you a more favorable viewpoint on meat production. You can google for the transcipt as well if you don't have time to watch.

https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_ ... anguage=en

 

[Dean]

Haven't watched the talk yet. I've agonized over the meat thing for years. The best health I ever had was on all-meat diet, albeit I only did it short term.

On the ecological front, I think we'd be better off getting rid of the industrial row cropping of corn and soybeans, replaced it with grass (interspersed with fruit trees) and allowed smaller ruminants (goats, venison, the smaller heritage breeds of cattle) to graze/browse it.

 

[Such_Saturation]

post 103568
On the ecological front, I think we'd be better off getting rid of the industrial row cropping of corn and soybeans, replaced it with grass (interspersed with fruit trees) and allowed smaller ruminants (goats, venison, the smaller heritage breeds of cattle) to graze/browse it.

 

[Jake]

I like that idea Dean. Certainly there’s got to be something more productive we could be doing other than monoculture corn and soy in a fertile place like Iowa.

One thing that often times gets left out of the discussion is many ruminants are grazed on land unsuitable for cultivation. A lot of the American West is too cold or arid for anything other than grazing. So if the goal is eating in a manner for ecological optimization, a certain amount of meat eating plays into the picture IMO.

I’ve sidetracked enough, congrats on your success Chipas. If you seek out a conscientious producer I don’t think you should feel guilty at all about eating meat.

 

[chispas]

Glad you're still doing well.

How old are you, btw?

When you use niacinamide, are you taking it with any other supplement or foods/drink (you just said sugar).

I found from past experience the importance of not letting blood sugar drop when using niacinamide, or it can cause a persistent headache.

Sorry Peata, I did not see your post.

Yes, absolutely take niacinamide with juice or something. I don't think protein is absolutely necessary, but at least 500ml of juice (two medium glasses), with follow up sugary snacks (dates, anything easily digestible, coke, etc) will prevent any headache from occuring, which I understand is possibly just low blood sugar (not sure though).

Niacinamide costs $8 at the local shops. I reckon if it cost $80, it would still be worth it.
When I first felt the effects of it, I was really surprised addicts weren't robbing the store to get some. I feel really really great for a solid 5 hours.

It was like I was at a party and it was the best party of my whole life, but it was only happening to me. I wasn't bouncing off the walls, but I definitely felt tremendously glad about everything.

 

[chispas]

Oh, and I'm thirty years old.

Reading back through my posts...geez what a painful experience. I don't think writing in forums like these is really an ideal form of communication. Just for the record: I'm not as awful as my posts would have you believe. Also, I'm not sure what I meant by the word "abundance" in the original statement, however I can only speculate it was a reference to the gas I was experiencing at the time.

Just an update on my "subjective sense of wellbeing" vs the "consumption of foods people on this forum are also compulsively eating":

OJ + salt = good feelings, clear energy, maybe even a bit of elevated testosterone, and seemingly strong muscles

1% milk = once I drank 4 litres a day for a week, with no weight gain at all. I had a colleague who was scared I would die of calcium consumption. I felt normal the whole time, except for the conspicuous appearance of an indefatigable milk moustache. I still sometimes use supplementary casein, but I'm on the fence about it - when I had crap digestion, I felt the effect of "casein slowing your digestion for several hours" or whatever BS they say. Nowadays, I can eat 80g of casein with 500ml of milk, and an hour and a half later I'm hungry.

Dates = seem to have quite a bit of magnesium and copper, and this only seems to help me out - I get great energy from dates, not bad with a sprinkle of salt on top of them as well. Combine with OJ for powerfully good feelings!

Homemade zero-PUFA popcorn = great when I feel like a snack and good with lots of salt/sugar and coconut oil/bit of olive oil. Not sure if this is really pro-metabolic. Seems to make my temperature go up. I'm waiting for the day I eat something and spontaneously combust.

Meats = I only eat lamb or chicken now. Beef in the place where I live has antibiotics in it, even grass fed beef. Organic, free range chicken has less than 1g PUFA per 100g, which is good enough for me: see Lilydale Bulk Breast Fillets - Lilydale free range chicken. Lamb is almost completely saturated and monounsaturated fat.

Starches = I recognise the value of ketoacids, but ensure that I cut up potatoes and sweet potatoes very thin so that the starch is destroyed in the oven. I also wash white rice to remove the starch. I add coconut oil to rice when I eat it (not as often anymore).

THE CARROT = I have really started to notice good effects with THE CARROT, even though I was initially not bothered. Any time I start to feel unusual (most of the time), I eat a whole one. I do eat it by itself now, following Westside PUFAs excellent yet hysterical advice. I often find it more satiating than the casein.

Jelly - jelly for dessert is awesome. Homemade, with gelatine and fruit juice. Yum!

Coke - I only drink it in a glass bottle, and through a straw to save my teeth (same with OJ).

Liver = tastes shitty, and I would prefer to just drop 100,000iu of pure vitamin A into my juice every day than choke down liver. However, I am going to start eating some duck/goose liver pate for a trial. Not sure what to spread it on yet though.

Oysters = are grown in a Chinese aquaculture and I just can't get past that. I don't know how they couldn't be potential mercury magnets. Good luck to those eating oysters!

Mushrooms = don't think the backflip on this one was really worth it. Ray Peat described them as "scrumptious with cheese". I think that as a linguist, he has a responsibility to never use the word 'scrumptious'. I also think that the variations in the quality and genus of different mushrooms raises concern about their potential fitness for consumption. I also just don't find mushrooms to taste that great.

Too much fat = I experienced bad liver pain with lots of butter, cream and whole milk, and also lots of regular egg yolks. I really avoid excess fat if I can help it. Lamb fat doesn't seem to bother me, but I'm not rolling around nakedly in a bathtub of baby lambs.

Eggs = I love eggs, but I don't eat them as much anymore. Maybe once a week, two or three eggs at a time. When I do, I really feel like them and it feels great to eat them. I eat them with sugar and cinnamon, a la french toast without the toast! Farmers are feeding chickens canthaxanthin to make the yolks more "perfectly yolky", which is a sad reason for me to limit them - see Marketing the Perfectly Colored Egg Yolk - Modern Farmer

Supplements I take:

E on my skin - teaspoon sized on each wrist once a week (lotioncrafter 95%)
Retinol A in my juice each day 50,000 - 75,000IU - this was a great decision for me.
Glycine in each cup of coffee I drink - sometimes three cups/day, so 15g glycine a day.
Creatine in OJ is good, creatine in coffee is not good. I think caffeine antagonises the effects of creatine long term.
B3 if I feel like I'm going to have a stressful experience, I will take 1.5g - 2g and it will get me through OK. It's an advantage if you can foresee the stress before you encounter it.

Noticable bad effects:

Clicky sounds coming from knees (I suspect calcium in soft tissue), and a recent small strain between some ribs took a long time to heal, sore feet upon waking from bed, stiff back after waking up, gums look a bit average despite no tooth cavities, and no sensitivity to coldness/hot drinks. Dentist gave me the all-clear but what the hell do they know. "Why don't you want X-rays done?" - cue confused look on dental assistant's face.

I think there is a possibility that all of the above symptoms are signs of K2 deficiency, as I am eating hardly any vegetables at all, and insignificant amounts of animal fat. I have ordered a supplement and will report back on how it goes.

I rate my general sense of wellbeing 8.5/10. If I can work out the cracking in the knees I'll be happy.

 

[Braveheart]

Can't I just cut someone's adrenal glands out? It's the evil dopamine that made me do it anyway.

one of my favorite things about this forum...humor...laughing is a very important part of good health

 

[Such_Saturation]

one of my favorite things about this forum...humor...laughing is a very important part of good health

But sometimes people don't get it and it gets real unhealthy real quick

 

[chispas]

My current diet, for the sake of anyone that this information might aid:

(This is currently the diet that results in the best subjective sense of "healthiness and feeling good" that I can achieve)

Breakfast: 600ml fresh Oj + 1 teaspoon of salt (rock salt), and 1 tablespoon white sugar. Drink through straw to save teeth. Take with single dose of niacinamide (500mg - 1g daily). Wait twenty minutes and have protein drink. 250ml low-fat milk, 1 tablespoon white sugar and 35g worth of protein from casein (no additives, soy, etc). Sprinkle of cinnamon and 10g glycine in protein drink. Go walk in the sun like an upright human!

Mid-morning routine: Cup of coffee with sugar, drunk in combination with : 5 medjool dates, a handful of cranberries, sometimes a few marshmallows, and maybe a slice of homemade dried fruit cake (limited flour put into cake).

Lunch: Liverwurst - two or three servings. I think this is the best way to get your retinol regularly - beef liver once a week was both too disgusting and too infrequently consumed to give any benefit to me. I use the most harmless starch I can, which is usually rice crackers, to spread my liverwurst on. I also eat chicken or lamb, no beef. I eat these foods with a coffee, with the same amount of sugar. Blocking the iron, and all that stuff, etc.

Afternoon: Cheese sticks, fruit, such as cherries, mandarins, etc. I also find macadamia nuts are good with fruit, but seem to interfere with the positive effects of coffee, so I don't drink coffee with them.

Dinner: Meat again, chicken or lamb, never beef. Diced steamed potatoes or white rice. No vegetables, except carrot. Dessert is jelly, more cherries, more fruit. Coffee at night makes me very sleepy and sedated, very GABA-ergic, but it seems to also make me dehydrated by morning so I don't drink it at night.

Post-dinner: Same protein drink as breakfast, with same 10g glycine. I understand glycine protects against high glutamine.

Things I supplement: niacinamide daily, glycine daily, pansterone daily (not essential, but generally good effects from a few drops of this transdermally), B1 - rarely - it tends to make me feel good after high-stress days at work, B6 - rarely - it's a great anti-adrenaline, and good for night time relaxing after the gym for instance. Camomile tea is fantastic when brewed from the flowers themselves - extremely relaxing. I don't eat many carrots any more, but I probably should keep it up. I don't like the feeling of how the fibre slows the digestion down.

Safe snacks: Coke, dried fruit (except dried apricots and sultanas, which made me fatigued - possibly too much copper?), freshly squeezed juice, jelly beans, marshmallows, good fruit like cherries, and cheese sticks are really convenient.

Things I avoid always: Too much water (I only drink when thirsty - only urinate six times a day now, down from 1000+ times), fatty food, anything with additives, eat eggs only once a week now and it's much better, I was eating oysters but I don't think the trace amounts of omega 3 are worth ingesting for the zinc - I would much prefer chicken and lamb. I avoid many herbs and spices in the grocery store, and a lot of other crap, but mainly I avoid everything recommended to be "healthy"! I avoid all breads, except a limited amount of sourdough when I feel like it.

I solved my knee cracking problem by increasing vitamin A/K2 from liverwurst instead of using a supplement. I've backed down the casein ingestion because all the calcium was giving me constipation. I feel like I am at a very healthy balance now. My gums are solid, improved a lot with liverwurst. Perhaps there is a lot of K2 in liverwurst?

It's anecdotal, but I have not felt better than this before in my life. I could probably lose a few kilos, but my subjective outlook is always really good. I don't get stressed any more, and even better, I feel confident that I know what to do if I start to feel bad. My weight does not change week to week, my hands and feet are always warm, and my heart rate feels strong and steady.

 

[ecstatichamster]

What about your feet hurting in the morning? Is that the same better or worse?

 

[Evandrojr]

My current diet, for the sake of anyone that this information might aid:

(This is currently the diet that results in the best subjective sense of "healthiness and feeling good" that I can achieve)

Breakfast: 600ml fresh Oj + 1 teaspoon of salt (rock salt), and 1 tablespoon white sugar. Drink through straw to save teeth. Take with single dose of niacinamide (500mg - 1g daily). Wait twenty minutes and have protein drink. 250ml low-fat milk, 1 tablespoon white sugar and 35g worth of protein from casein (no additives, soy, etc). Sprinkle of cinnamon and 10g glycine in protein drink. Go walk in the sun like an upright human!

Mid-morning routine: Cup of coffee with sugar, drunk in combination with : 5 medjool dates, a handful of cranberries, sometimes a few marshmallows, and maybe a slice of homemade dried fruit cake (limited flour put into cake).

Lunch: Liverwurst - two or three servings. I think this is the best way to get your retinol regularly - beef liver once a week was both too disgusting and too infrequently consumed to give any benefit to me. I use the most harmless starch I can, which is usually rice crackers, to spread my liverwurst on. I also eat chicken or lamb, no beef. I eat these foods with a coffee, with the same amount of sugar. Blocking the iron, and all that stuff, etc.

Afternoon: Cheese sticks, fruit, such as cherries, mandarins, etc. I also find macadamia nuts are good with fruit, but seem to interfere with the positive effects of coffee, so I don't drink coffee with them.

Dinner: Meat again, chicken or lamb, never beef. Diced steamed potatoes or white rice. No vegetables, except carrot. Dessert is jelly, more cherries, more fruit. Coffee at night makes me very sleepy and sedated, very GABA-ergic, but it seems to also make me dehydrated by morning so I don't drink it at night.

Post-dinner: Same protein drink as breakfast, with same 10g glycine. I understand glycine protects against high glutamine.

Things I supplement: niacinamide daily, glycine daily, pansterone daily (not essential, but generally good effects from a few drops of this transdermally), B1 - rarely - it tends to make me feel good after high-stress days at work, B6 - rarely - it's a great anti-adrenaline, and good for night time relaxing after the gym for instance. Camomile tea is fantastic when brewed from the flowers themselves - extremely relaxing. I don't eat many carrots any more, but I probably should keep it up. I don't like the feeling of how the fibre slows the digestion down.

Safe snacks: Coke, dried fruit (except dried apricots and sultanas, which made me fatigued - possibly too much copper?), freshly squeezed juice, jelly beans, marshmallows, good fruit like cherries, and cheese sticks are really convenient.

Things I avoid always: Too much water (I only drink when thirsty - only urinate six times a day now, down from 1000+ times), fatty food, anything with additives, eat eggs only once a week now and it's much better, I was eating oysters but I don't think the trace amounts of omega 3 are worth ingesting for the zinc - I would much prefer chicken and lamb. I avoid many herbs and spices in the grocery store, and a lot of other crap, but mainly I avoid everything recommended to be "healthy"! I avoid all breads, except a limited amount of sourdough when I feel like it.

I solved my knee cracking problem by increasing vitamin A/K2 from liverwurst instead of using a supplement. I've backed down the casein ingestion because all the calcium was giving me constipation. I feel like I am at a very healthy balance now. My gums are solid, improved a lot with liverwurst. Perhaps there is a lot of K2 in liverwurst?

It's anecdotal, but I have not felt better than this before in my life. I could probably lose a few kilos, but my subjective outlook is always really good. I don't get stressed any more, and even better, I feel confident that I know what to do if I start to feel bad. My weight does not change week to week, my hands and feet are always warm, and my heart rate feels strong and steady.

Hi @chispas , thank you so much for sharing your experience, it's wonderful for those of us still struggling to hear experiences like yours. Sorry for the exceeedenly personal question, but how are your bowel movements? I'm still struggling with constipation, and the only thing that helps me go is strong black coffee on an empty stomach in the morning. It's a terrible tool because of the cortisol response, but even if I add sugar/honey it doesn't give me the same "potty time!" effect. So was there something in your journey that particularly helped with that? Thanks!!