After Much Research, I Have Finally Found A Way To Get Very Low PUFA Goat Milk

[Cirion]

Does anyone know if these machines would work on homogenized milk? I think you would have to buy non-homogenized milk in order to separate the fat.

In for answers to this

 

[Waremu]

Slightly OT: why did you write "as the late forum member Travis pointed out..." ??

You didn't hear of his passing?



I was just kidding. He retired from the forum for the time being, so just a silly joke.

 

[Waremu]

Does anyone know if these machines would work on homogenized milk? I think you would have to buy non-homogenized milk in order to separate the fat.

The lower tier ones do not, and I cannot find information on whether the higher tier ones can or can't, but I suspect they cannot either for that reason, and because of the globule size of homogenized milk being dramatically smaller than that of unhomogenized cow milk and even goat milk. It will likely just work on store bought pasteurized goat milk and raw/non-homogenized pasteurized cow milk.

 

[jb116]

You didn't hear of his passing?



I was just kidding. He retired from the forum for the time being, so just a silly joke.

Oh I see! No I didn't hear he was stepping away. That actually bums me out that he won't be posting.

 

[Cirion]

The lower tier ones do not, and I cannot find information on whether the higher tier ones can or can't, but I suspect they cannot either for that reason, and because of the globule size of homogenized milk being dramatically smaller than that of unhomogenized cow milk and even goat milk. It will likely just work on store bought pasteurized goat milk and raw/non-homogenized pasteurized cow milk.

I have never seen unhomogenized milk for sale in stores? How can I know if it is un-homogenized? I guess it has to specifically say so on the container?

Maybe someone can contact the manufacturer of the $500 one to ask if it works on homogenized milk?

 

[Cirion]

I took the liberty of contacting the company. This was the reply.

"You can use homogenized milky but the outcome of cream would be much much lower."

So, sounds like we should use non-homogenized as initially suspected.

 

[Cirion]

I found a brand of cow's milk that is grass fed, and only regular pasteurized and not homogenized. This is the mildest type of milk you can get besides raw (apparently you want to avoid ultra pasteurization as it kills the nutrients more than regular pasteurization). Looks like the store "Fresh Thyme" here in the Midwest sells it. Will try to find it later today.

I also bought a cheaper $140 cream separator from ebay. So I can give this a shot soon.

BTW, goat's milk is naturally homogenized apparently... so I think that would mean you may end up with a bit higher than the 0.02, 0.05% fat content using the cream separator? based upon the reply I got from the manufacturer (Milky)

 

[Waremu]

I found a brand of cow's milk that is grass fed, and only regular pasteurized and not homogenized. This is the mildest type of milk you can get besides raw (apparently you want to avoid ultra pasteurization as it kills the nutrients more than regular pasteurization). Looks like the store "Fresh Thyme" here in the Midwest sells it. Will try to find it later today.

I also bought a cheaper $140 cream separator from ebay. So I can give this a shot soon.

BTW, goat's milk is naturally homogenized apparently... so I think that would mean you may end up with a bit higher than the 0.02, 0.05% fat content using the cream separator? based upon the reply I got from the manufacturer (Milky)

UHT pasteurization doesn’t do that much to nutrients in milk. They only use high heat for a few seconds, so it is so fast that little ‘damage’ is done. I’ve seen many raw milk guru blogs make a lot of unfounded claims on pasteurized milk like it destroys almost all of the vitamins, and those claims are just silly clickbate nonsense in my opinion. But either forms of pasteurized milk should be fine and still have plenty of vitamins left. Some of the vitamins are decreased a little but that’s about it.

No, it will work just fine on goat milk as well, as t was designed to also handle goat and sheep milk. While it is true that goat milk is naturally homogenized in that the fat globules are smaller in size than biovine cow milk fat globules and do not float to the top of the milk, they are no where near the size of the broken down fat globules from the machine homogenization process as it differs significantly in size, so the machine should stilll handle goat milk cream just fine as well. The reason why the machine won’t work well on machine homogenized cows milk is because the fat globules in cows milk are broken down to such a small size that it is significantly smaller than even the fat globules in goat milk so that the difference between the broken down cow milk milk fat globules and goat milk fat globules in size is much greater than the differences in size of goat and nonhomogenized cows milk fat globules. So it will work just fine on goats milk, as they, again, naturally homogenized goat milk is not equal homogenized cows milk in size.

And of course, as I mentioned already above, the lab test of someone who used it on their goat milk already shows that it can produce goat milk with a 0.002% fat content even on the 0.005% machine. The 0.005% on those machines is the max cap in fat yield that it is built to produce so it doesn’t necessarily mean it will produce that; it could produce much less fat yield as well. So in other words, even the lower tier ones work very well.

Concerning telling whether store bought milk is homogenized or not: it is hard sometimes to tell whether the milk at a health food store is homogenized or not since they don’t all ways put it on the label of homogenized milk. But usually if it is not homogenized it will say so on the bottle/carton and of it is a clearly bottle the cream should be seen settling or floating on the top.

 

[Cirion]

That all makes sense. I think the real distinguisher is probably grass-fed vs. CAFO. The cow's milk I want to try is grass fed and not homogenized, which are the two most important to me.

Is most goat milk bought in stores un-homogenized? I think I read that since goat milk is naturally homogenized, people tend to not bother machine homogenizing it further? Is that true?

 

[opson123]

The effect of pasteurization or ultra pasteurization on nutrients is not something to worry about imo. Even if they are reduced, the amount isn't something that makes a difference in the grand scheme of things. There's probably a difference in the amount of nutrients between different brands of milk, and even in different batches of any particular brand. It's really not something that makes a difference. Even something like 80% of the 'normal' amount of nutrients would be just fine.

 

[Waremu]

That all makes sense. I think the real distinguisher is probably grass-fed vs. CAFO. The cow's milk I want to try is grass fed and not homogenized, which are the two most important to me.

Is most goat milk bought in stores un-homogenized? I think I read that since goat milk is naturally homogenized, people tend to not bother machine homogenizing it further? Is that true?

Yes. From what I know and have seen, goat milk is not mechanically homogenized, whether it is sold at stores or directly from farmers.

And yes, goat milks fat globules are smaller in size, so companies do not feel the need to homogenize it further. However, because the fat globules are of greater size and not emulsified in cows milk, it is more noticeable when it separates or settles at the top, so companies homogenize it so that it is more attractive to the average milk drinker to drink. But while cows milk fat globuales are larger in size, the size of both types of fat globules (goat and cows milk) are still much larger than that of machine-homogenized cows milk fat globules and therefore the unhomogenized fat globules of both types of milk are still large enough to go through the machine separators anodized disks.

Individual globules of fat in goat milk ranges from 0.73 to 8.58 μm in diameter. The average diameter of particles based on volume to surface area ratio is 2.76 μm and is less than the mean of 3.51 μm for bovine milk, in which fat globules range from 0.92 to 15.75 μm in diameter. In contrast, the fat globule size range in homogenized milk is about 0.2-2 µm.

As you can see, the difference between 8.58 um (goat milk fat globules) and 15.75 um (bovine milk fat globules) in diameter is not so much of a difference that a machine of such caliber and design cannot handle both globule sizes, compared to the 0.2-2 um diameter of bovine milk fat globules which are mechanically homogenized.

Even with goat milk being 'naturally homogenized', the diameter of it's milk fat globules are no where near the size of mechanically homogenized bovine milk fat globules, which are much much smaller. So, again, this is why the machine can handle goat milk just fine but not homogenized cows milk. Natures 'homogenization' with regards to goat milk and the mechanical homogenization of cows milk are not equal.

 

[Waremu]

The effect of pasteurization or ultra pasteurization on nutrients is not something to worry about imo. Even if they are reduced, the amount isn't something that makes a difference in the grand scheme of things. There's probably a difference in the amount of nutrients between different brands of milk, and even in different batches of any particular brand. It's really not something that makes a difference. Even something like 80% of the 'normal' amount of nutrients would be just fine.

I agree. Also, pasteurization actually helps preserve some of the vitamins from degrading, like Riboflavin, for example. Many tribes or groups of people who consumed milk would boil their milk with herbs in the past when they drank it, so I don't see much of a difference between that a few seconds of pasteurization. The latter actually is probably less damaging than boiling milk in a large pot over a fire.

 

[Cirion]

Just as a kind of sanity check, how much cream:skim milk should you expect to get from goat's milk (as a kind of check to make sure it's separating right)? For cow's milk, it's about a 1:10 ratio by volume.

 

[Fractality]

I've been considering the $100 machine but the cost of shipping to the US puts me off. It doubles the cost, even with the slowest shipping method.

 

[Cirion]

I've been considering the $100 machine but the cost of shipping to the US puts me off. It doubles the cost, even with the slowest shipping method.

Yeah that's why I went hunting on ebay instead and got something for $140.

 

[Waremu]

I've been considering the $100 machine but the cost of shipping to the US puts me off. It doubles the cost, even with the slowest shipping method.

It doubles the cost? Where are you ordering yours from?

It probably depends on where you order yours from and which machine. The shipping is expensive on mine too, but mine is the more expensive model so while it is expensive shipping it certainty doesn't double it the price. But I can see it nearly doubling the price if you buy the cheaper one.

 

[Fractality]

Yeah that's why I went hunting on ebay instead and got something for $140.

Did you find the same brand on Ebay?

It doubles the cost? Where are you ordering yours from?

It probably depends on where you order yours from and which machine. The shipping is expensive on mine too, but mine is the more expensive model so while it is expensive shipping it certainty doesn't double it the price. But I can see it nearly doubling the price if you buy the cheaper one.

I selected United States for shipping, it didn't ask for a more specific location. I'm on the west coast.

 

[Waremu]

Just as a kind of sanity check, how much cream:skim milk should you expect to get from goat's milk (as a kind of check to make sure it's separating right)? For cow's milk, it's about a 1:10 ratio by volume.

Goat whole milk ranges from 2.45 to 7.76% fat depending on breed. But on average it is very similar to cows milk with a little more fat per serving. It is naturally high in medium chain fatty acids. But again, the machine was tested on milk and built to yield no more than the max fat content it claims. So shouldn't be a problem with it not doing that unless the machine was broken or something. You should know it is separating properly by measuring the separated cream.

On their website information, they say: "from 10 gallons of milk you will get about 1 gallon of cream;
- the cream will have 10 times more fat than your milk. It means that if your milk has 3,2% you will get cream with 32% of fat.."

They said the same will apply to goat milk via email. The cream will be more of an eggshell or yellowish white color and the skimmed milk will be watery and very white. Goat cream will be brighter than cows cream, but the cream is very thick when it is separated regardless of which type it is. The machine is so efficient at separating the fat from the milk that there isn't really even any butter milk in the cream. It is so thick it can be made straight into butter from that point on if you wanted to do so.

 

[akgrrrl]

Very interesting thread Waremu, thankyou for all your effort

 

[Cirion]

@Fractality I got some brand made in China so the quality is up for speculation. But I didn't want to invest $500 in something I may or may not use a lot. I may upgrade to the $500 one later if this one breaks and/or I make skimming my own milk a constant habit.