Starch In My Diet

[Polo Saad]

Hey everyone on the forums I just signed up to the forums ATM and I need some help/advice from you guys since I'm pretty sure you guys here on the forums know way better than me.

So before I get into the problem I really hope you read a little about my background therefore you can help me to treat/solve my situation.

Last year I unsatisfied with my body I was a little bit fat and I wasn't feeling good in general. So,I decided to lose weight.So I used the OMAD protocol I avoided sugar..yes I DID and ate a moderate carb(starch),protien,fat and I was able to slim down and I'm very sure that I'm below 9% body fat now and I think that's has ****88 up my metabolism and my thyroid.
I did 4 blood tests so far from the time I have lost the weight,But my doctor said my TSH is slightly below average levels therefore I didn't take any medication but I was feeling like I'm moving a dead body literally.
So I stopped doing OMAD really because of the period of fasting stresses my body.

Last month I started to follow Ray peat tips like eating more fruits (I avoided PUFAS since i started to diet) I feel great now honestly but I have a problem and here where I need your help.
So I do heavy lifting 3 times per week to gain muscle so far it been going great and I'm gaining strength and size.
But I have heard I don't remember when and where that you need to eat starch in order to replenish muscle glycogen otherwise you won't really progress comparing to if you ate sugar instead of starch.
And if you wonder what is my problem with starch,I Really feel bad eating starch (Potatoes ,Rice) like sometimes I get more hungry when I ate them and fatigued,Depressed,Sluggish,I think this is like reactive hypoglycemia thing ? .etc.But when I eat fruits damn I'm like a superman and more productive and I feel even more satisfied and satisfied when I eat fruits even if it was 220g dates vs 650g potatoes lol...So what do you think guys ?Have a fantastic day everyone.

 

[Polo Saad]

Like to really clarify what I mean and ease it a little bit ,Will I feel more recovered the next workout if I ate starch instead of sugar ? And I want to avoid starch at least to when I can tolerate it better ? and then I can add it back to my diet and start eating sugar and starch both in moderate amount.

 

[Polo Saad]

Moreover guys I"m really confused about wether I should or not mix fruits or sugar with protein and or with fat ? What is safe a sugar combo in your opinion? And I"m eating 15-18% max percent of my diet from fat is this safe? /optimal?

 

[theLaw]

First off, always a good idea to provide a full completed Cronometer breakdown for an average day so that others can understand your situation better. Cronometer: Track nutrition & count calories

Secondly, I think what you are experiencing is just more nutrient/caloric-density with the starch vs sugar. This seems to be a common issue for those who are under-eating. In other words, starch is a calorie-dense food, so when you're starving, it's a quick way to re-feed, but not optimal. This is where the burger+fries+soda comes from = high protein + high fat + high carbs.

Finally, high-quality protein appears to be necessary for optimal muscle growth. How much exactly seems to depend on your metabolic health, but the numbers might be 150G+ or higher per day for a male lifting weights.

Getting Ripped With Dr Peat

 

[Polo Saad]

First off, always a good idea to provide a full completed Cronometer breakdown for an average day so that others can understand your situation better. Cronometer: Track nutrition & count calories

Secondly, I think what you are experiencing is just more nutrient/caloric-density with the starch vs sugar. This seems to be a common issue for those who are under-eating. In other words, starch is a calorie-dense food, so when you're starving, it's a quick way to re-feed, but not optimal. This is where the burger+fries+soda comes from = high protein + high fat + high carbs.

Finally, high-quality protein appears to be necessary for optimal muscle growth. How much exactly seems to depend on your metabolic health, but the numbers might be 150G+ or higher per day for a male lifting weights.

Getting Ripped With Dr Peat

Thank you so much for helping,So you think I will be fine with sugar instead of starch?Mayb until I gain a little bit of fat since I'm currently lean bulking .And I consume 0.8*bw(in lb) protein daily mostly from low fat yellow cheese and milk + (2eggs) and sometimes red beef,I also consume beef liver every 2 weeks (250g total).I will try to provide you with a Cronometer breakdown as well.What you do think also about my fat intake 15-18%) and combos with protien/fat?

 

[SOMO]

Thank you so much for helping,So you think I will be fine with sugar instead of starch?Mayb until I gain a little bit of fat since I'm currently lean bulking .And I consume 0.8*bw(in lb) protein daily mostly from low fat yellow cheese and milk + (2eggs) and sometimes red beef,I also consume beef liver every 2 weeks (250g total).I will try to provide you with a Cronometer breakdown as well.What you do think also about my fat intake 15-18%) and combos with protien/fat?

As long as you're keeping calories the same, I really don't think you'll notice any difference in body composition between sugar or starch lol. Starch, IMO is much more filling.
Why not try something more moderate and have both starch and sugar on different days? One day where you eat more sugar, another day where you eat more starch.

Starch is often packaged with nutrients in plants with a shitload of nutrition, like potatoes which are I think the best plant source of B6 and some other nutrients. Many people on this forum eat rice or potatoes and feel good on those, myself included.


As far as performance in the gym goes, you don't need a "preworkout" or "postworkout" shake contrary to popular opinion. I prefer to exercise in a fasted state (which would mean low glycogen) because in a fasted state I feel lighter, more flexible, more agile, stronger, etc.

All of these carb sources will replenish glycogen very well:
-Sugar
-Glycerin/Glycerol (Quest Bars or many of those protein bars)
-Starch

 

[Polo Saad]

As long as you're keeping calories the same, I really don't think you'll notice any difference in body composition between sugar or starch lol. Starch, IMO is much more filling.
Why not try something more moderate and have both starch and sugar on different days? One day where you eat more sugar, another day where you eat more starch.

Starch is often packaged with nutrients in plants with a shitload of nutrition, like potatoes which are I think the best plant source of B6 and some other nutrients. Many people on this forum eat rice or potatoes and feel good on those, myself included.

Yeah I'm very aware of what you have said above ,Starch is more filling and packed with nutrients (like tubers) however,I only tried to swap it at least for now because of what was happening to me when I ate it I literally get more hungry and I feel very bad after.And I will make sure I"m not nutrient deficient in any mineral or vitmans as well.

 

[theLaw]

Thank you so much for helping,So you think I will be fine with sugar instead of starch?Mayb until I gain a little bit of fat since I'm currently lean bulking .And I consume 0.8*bw(in lb) protein daily mostly from low fat yellow cheese and milk + (2eggs) and sometimes red beef,I also consume beef liver every 2 weeks (250g total).I will try to provide you with a Cronometer breakdown as well.What you do think also about my fat intake 15-18%) and combos with protien/fat?

Personally I think that fruit juice is best, but it largely depends on your liver health. If you can handle sugar, then I think it's superior to starch.

Some people have no problems with starch, while others find it causes serious digestive issues/blood sugar issues. Peat has suggested for those with significant digestive issues, starch "should be zero".

Anything under 20% fat sounds reasonable.

In terms of combos, small meals distributed equally throughout the day (ex. divide up f/p/c into 5 meals equally) will help fuel muscle growth + maintain blood sugar.

Most of this is going to come down to personal experimentation, so the fastest way to see results is constant a/b testing. There is no one-size-fits-all here.

I always suggest that everyone start here. Read these 2 links, and you'll already be ahead of most members on these boards:

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

 

[Polo Saad]

Personally I think that fruit juice is best, but it largely depends on your liver health. If you can handle sugar, then I think it's superior to starch.

Some people have no problems with starch, while others find it causes serious digestive issues/blood sugar issues. Peat has suggested for those with significant digestive issues, starch "should be zero".

Anything under 20% fat sounds reasonable.

In terms of combos, small meals distributed equally throughout the day (ex. divide up f/p/c into 5 meals equally) will help fuel muscle growth + maintain blood sugar.

Most of this is going to come down to personal experimentation, so the fastest way to see results is constant a/b testing. There is no one-size-fits-all here.

I always suggest that everyone start here. Read these 2 links, and you'll already be ahead of most members on these boards:

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Oh okay thanks,I think what you have said above really helped a lot.I also agree that everyone should be experimenting different things to see what suits for him the best.I was experimenting with some fruit some good some bad I consume only the ones that doesn't bother me and I make sure everyday I get my micro+macros and while feeling good at the same time.Thanks for helping anymore help would be appreciated from you guys.

 

[3v@]

Hello, I'm new in this forum even if I started to read Ray Peat since 2013. About simple sugars and lifting weights: after a looooooong period switching from a high carb/high starch diet to a keto/low carb paleo approach and having health issues, I came back just a month ago to a Peat diet lifestyle with high carbs and low fat (not so low, anyway: 50-60 grams vs 200 grams of carbs).
I lifted weights 3/4 times a week using 3 different diets over time:
HIGH STARCH/HIGH CARB DIET: I could lift, surely, but I had more belly fat. And I was depressed especially in the morning. When I asked my trainer about my problems with starches (pasta, bread, rice, potatoes) he suggested me maltodextrines...
KETO/LOW CARB PALEO STYLE: terribile lifting, I wanted to quit all the times. Really fatigued, I lost strenght.
Now, PEATY: I can easily handle lifting weights and anyone on the gym thinks I follow a low cal diet, which I don't. I simply look slimmer and more toned, and without the digesting problems of starches my belly is usually flat. In the fitness world, most part of the people is against simple sugars *in general* and they avoid fructose like the plague, because of the fattening theory about insulin, but I think they are simply wrong.
Sugar is sugar. The less your body stresses itself to get it, the more you can exercise. Exercise is a "stressor" anyway.
Especially before lifting, eating fruits are imho the best food to perform well with weights. Ripened, cooked, etc.

 

[Polo Saad]

T

Hello, I'm new in this forum even if I started to read Ray Peat since 2013. About simple sugars and lifting weights: after a looooooong period switching from a high carb/high starch diet to a keto/low carb paleo approach and having health issues, I came back just a month ago to a Peat diet lifestyle with high carbs and low fat (not so low, anyway: 50-60 grams vs 200 grams of carbs).
I lifted weights 3/4 times a week using 3 different diets over time:
HIGH STARCH/HIGH CARB DIET: I could lift, surely, but I had more belly fat. And I was depressed especially in the morning. When I asked my trainer about my problems with starches (pasta, bread, rice, potatoes) he suggested me maltodextrines...
KETO/LOW CARB PALEO STYLE: terribile lifting, I wanted to quit all the times. Really fatigued, I lost strenght.
Now, PEATY: I can easily handle lifting weights and anyone on the gym thinks I follow a low cal diet, which I don't. I simply look slimmer and more toned, and without the digesting problems of starches my belly is usually flat. In the fitness world, most part of the people is against simple sugars *in general* and they avoid fructose like the plague, because of the fattening theory about insulin, but I think they are simply wrong.
Sugar is sugar. The less your body stresses itself to get it, the more you can exercise. Exercise is a "stressor" anyway.
Especially before lifting, eating fruits are imho the best food to perform well with weights. Ripened, cooked, etc.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me and trying to help.So far it been going great with my new diet.