6 Months Into Peating, I Get Diabetes

Discussion in 'Blood Sugar' started by artemis, Aug 16, 2015.

  1. artemis

    artemis Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Messages:
    195
    Whatever "Peating" is, I obviously did it wrong.

    Maybe I changed my diet too fast? I never ate or drank sugar my whole adult life, or drank milk, or ate fruit. Then, last November, I started with this WOE. Started drinking milk, eating fruit, using sugar in my coffee, having a Red Bull or Coke now and then (never more than one a day, though). Then around April/May, I started getting symptoms of high blood sugar. It was pretty bad, like around 500 for awhile. I didn't want to go the traditional route of doctors and insulin. I tried to deal with it on my own, by using all the things I've read about that are supposed to help, like mega-dosing aspirin, B-vitamins, and other things I'm forgetting. None of that stuff made much difference. I ended up in the emergency room (husband and daughter dragged me there) because of constant vomiting. They gave me a prescription for Metformin, and I have been taking that. It didn't lower the numbers, but it did somehow make me feel much better. I want to get off of it, though. I have lowered my fasting BG from 363 to 160 over the past 6 days, by cutting all carbs. No sugar, no starch at all. I'm so relieved that it's coming down so fast!

    I'm just wondering how it went so wrong for me, yet you all seem to be able to handle all this sugar and not have any problems with blood glucose. A naturopathic doctor who I've seen a couple of times recently told me that she sees this a lot in women over 50? (I'm 52). No diabetes in my family, but I have always had problems with LOW blood sugar in the past.

    So I guess I'm just putting this out there as a cautionary tale -- might be wise to take it slow as far as changing one's diet, and maybe adding sugary food/drink is not such a great idea for some people.

    I still love Ray, and have learned so much from him, and from all of you, and will continue to follow most of the dietary guidelines, but the whole sugar thing didn't work out for me at all.
     
  2. marikay

    marikay Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    549
    Gender:
    Female
    Sorry to hear of your problems on this diet. I started following Ray's advice when I was just about to turn 50 and was suffering from a frozen shoulder (progest E fixed it immediately and permanently). My father has diabetes and I had assumed I would get it eventually. But massively increasing my sugar intake actually helped me keep my fasting blood sugar levels down and has helped in so many other ways.

    I seem to remember reading an article by Ray that explains how sugar came to be blamed for diabetes when it really is complex carbohydrates and PUFAs that are the culprits. And even my father's doctor has told him he doesn't need to limit sugar intake. So I don't think your increasing sugar in your diet is the likely cause of the diabetes.

    But I can only tell you of my experiences (I'm now 54). I'm still getting the hang of it all and have trouble getting all the protein and calories I need. But when I do make it to my eating goals on any given day, the next day I feel and look like someone twenty years younger than my calendar age. Ray Peat (and this forum) has been a life saver for me. Keep us posted. I wish you health.
     
  3. tara

    tara Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    9,893
    Gender:
    Female
    Hi Artemis,
    I'm sorry this has struck you. I hope you can figure out what's going on and recover.
     
  4. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,861
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Econ Student
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Funny how so few are rushing to address this one.
     
  5. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,340
    If you believe eating all that sugar gave you diabetes, think again.

    The American Diabetes association itself quietly declared in 2004:
    (statement that contradicts everything taught by orthodox medecine for the past 150 years)

    viewtopic.php?f=75&t=7340

    Ray Peat right again.
     
  6. YuraCZ

    YuraCZ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2015
    Messages:
    675
    In my opinion. If you are obese person with high blood pressure, high blood sugar, sluggish metabolism and liver. With all that if you start consume "Peat diet" = a lot of sugar, cholesterol rich foods, a lot of saturated fat. Ice cream, chocolate etc. becouse you can... Because it's "healthy" right? You will continue gain weight(fat) blood sugar and blood pressure WILL go up and you will be sicker and sicker. Simple as that... :!: :!: :!:
     
  7. tara

    tara Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    9,893
    Gender:
    Female
    Have you had tests for insulin, or are the diagnostitians only looking at the blood glucose levels?

    As a non-expert, I can think of a few possible culprits, but no certainty, about what might be going on in your case. If you have posted about your diet pre-Peat, I don't recall it.

    One possibility is that long term low sugar and/or low carb consumption may leave the mechanisms for sugar burning and blood sugar regulation less fit. This seems to be a common problem for former low-carbers.
    Maybe long-term PUFA consumption has damaged those beta cells.
    Or other factors resulting in chronically excessive cortisol levels could have done damage.
    Or other toxins may have done damage.
    Or some mineral deficiency could have contributed. Even with a diet apparently supplying adequate minerals, difficulties in absorption or retention could result in suboptimal levels - and it's not that easy to get plenty of minerals form food. I would expect magnesium in a form your body can use may be important, as well as potassium, and some of the lower volume minerals.
    Or there really is something to the A1 v A2 milk proteins increasing diabetes risk for some people, and you are one of the vulnerable ones.

    There are stories of people re-adapting to carbs after high-fat low-carb diets, but it may be that at some point enough damage is done that it is hard to recover. I think Peat has pointed to studies showing that glucose is required for pancreatic beta cells to regenerate. So chronic carb deficiency could result in reduced numbers of functioning beta cells? I think the recovery stories I've read have all or almost all involved eating low-fat for an extended period.

    I too have heard that people who have suffered from hypoglycemia are more prone to developing diabetes later. A progression of pancreatic weakness from being a bit slow to produce insulin, but then overproducing it and getting sugar crashes, followed eventually by difficulty producing enough insulin at all.

    You still have to eat something, and eating lots of fats instead of carbs is likely to worsen carb metabolism, so it's a bit of a bind. I hope you can find a way forward. If it were me, I would be reluctant to ditch carbs in favour of fat, at least until I had given other approaches to restoring carb metabolism a go. And long-term starving doesn't strike me as a good alternative.
     
  8. halken

    halken Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2015
    Messages:
    149
    Yea, that'll do it.
     
  9. cantstoppeating

    cantstoppeating Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2014
    Messages:
    584
    I'm not surprised.

    I've been in a similar situation where increased carb intake of 200-400g a day (to maintain a protein to carb ratio of 1:2-3) accelerated all the degenerative processes like gaining weight, bad skin, bad hair.

    What has helped however is reducing sugar to 100g a day or lower and not consuming refined sugar (unless with a heavy fat meal) or juice but whole fruit, increasing my saturated fat intake through cheese and taking pregnenolone, DHEA and progesterone.

    In fact, of all of Peat's recommendations and tools for increasing metabolism, the three youth hormones have had the biggest impact: after a bolus dose of 300mg of pregnenolone, plantar warts on my feet that I've had for over 10 years have suddenly started disappearing within a matter of weeks. After doses of 30mg of pregnenolone, my hands and knuckles take on a bright creamy-pink appearance that I remember constantly having when I was 11 years old.

    For now I've decided to reduce sugar consumption until I can get weekly to monthly testing done via Theranos to see exactly what's going on and better calibrate my sugar intake. What's clear is that you can't argue with results: if you're getting diabetes and other complications by consuming sugar, you either have to get more data to gauge what's happening in your body so that you can calibrate, or reduce the sugar for now until you can.
     
  10. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,973
    I don't know what Peat's view would be on your situation, I think he'd need more details, but I'll give you my opinion:

    Diabetes is caused by fat, both dietary intake of fat and percentage of excess body fat. It's not caused by "sugar."

    Research from 1971, even white sugar makes insulin work better, not worse:

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NE ... 3112841004

    Type 1, which you obviously do not have if you’ve made it to 52 and have only become “diabetic” now, type 1 is extremely rare, only about 5% of cases. Unless your beta cells have been completely destroyed, unlikely as Ray talks about how they have the ability to regenerate quickly, then you're not type 1.

    Type 2, the diabetes that is the epidemic, 90% of people with type 2 are overweight.

    What's your weight? Be honest. It's the only way to be objective.

    Are you in that extremely rare 10% that are type 2 and not overweight? I highly doubt it. That's not an "attack" on you. I was obese just 1 year ago myself.

    You're overweight and that's why you have high blood sugar.

    I speak from experience. Just one year ago I started to become pre-diabetic and I started to have symptoms, high blood sugar comas. It was because I was 235 pounds. My weight gain hit a point to where I started to become diabetic. The negative symptoms were enough for me to become strict about diet. I then adopted a daily diet of potatoes with no butter, white rice, and orange juice almost exclusively, and one year later I'm down to about 185 pounds. I've lost 50 pounds in about 1 year of eating nothing but starch and sugar. If starch and sugar caused diabetes then I would have gotten worse, not better.

    You will say "yes, that worked for you, but not everyone can handle all of that starch and sugar." Well I just don't see it that way. You’re a human organism just like me. We both run off of sugar, carbohydrate. I know that people aren't always honest about what they eat and I know how to become fat because I was fat. It's rare for people to truly stick to a diet of home-prepared meals for months and months. Even after just 2 or 3 months of me doing my new diet with positive results, even then I still had a period of bad eating when on vacation. But as soon as I got back home, I started back up and the positive results continued.

    If sugar and starch are the cause of diabetes then how come Walter Kemper's controlled clinical trials of white rice, fruit juice, and white sugar healed people?:

    [​IMG]

    You also say some pretty outlandish things that make it hard for me to believe what you say. You seem to just have a bias against "sugar, starch, and carbs:"

    500 fasting blood glucose for “a while?” That’s an emergency situation. You can’t have that for “a while.” You eventually went to the ER but it sounds pretty odd.

    viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5805&p=76654#p76654

    :problem:

    viewtopic.php?f=75&t=5210&p=65365#p65365

    Really? All of that from some gelatin?

    viewtopic.php?f=56&t=6326&p=83943#p83943

    So over 2 months ago you said you’ve been “Peating” for 7 months but today you say it’s been 6 months but from what you said before it should be 9 months today? Which is it?

    You’re taking thyroid? Why no mention of that here? That may be a part of your symptoms.

    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6258&p=74562#p74562

    I love ice cream too but it's important to have self control not eat too much of it to where it causes fat gain. If you find the set point with it to where it does not cause fat gain then that's good.

    viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5476&p=64682#p64682

    Fungal naturopathic type stuff...I just don't buy it. If you have an infection, you know it.

    Contrary to what people who hate me think, I get no benefit from promoting potatoes and white rice, which, ironically, are two Peat "safe" foods. I have no interest in pushing a diet on someone. I don't care what someone eats. I'm simply trying to be objective. When people say that they "can't handle" sugar and starch is it because they really can't or is it because they are eating too much fat and also have too much excess body fat that's giving them symptoms? Details that they leave out. It's it really the fruit, sugar, and starch or is it all of the fat from pufa oils that are in the foods that they claim they are no longer eating and too much ice cream, butter, whole milk and cheese? Foods Peat recommends (besides whole milk) but he also recommends to be conscious of your caloric intake of them and Peat himself is not fat.

    Just to remind you though, you did say you're drinking milk now but you didn't say what kind of milk it was. Here is a clip of Ray clearly saying that he doesn't recommend that people even drink a half gallon (2 quarts) of whole milk because of it's fat content, so he recommends 1% or skim milk:

    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7204&p=89863#p89863
     
  11. schultz

    schultz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,754
    Maybe because it was posted at 12:30 in the morning? You posted your comment at 4:00 in the morning giving only 3 and a half hours for a reply, in the middle of the night! :roll:

    It's hard to address an issue like this over an internet forum. We can give advice but really we don't know your history, what you eat, your lifestyle, your overall health situation, etc.

    If you're having these kinds of blood sugar issues, I would consider eating under 40g of fat a day. High fat high sugar is probably not going to help in your case, even if it's saturated. A low carb diet can potentially lower blood sugar, but really it's not addressing the problem of dysfunctional mitochondrial respiration. Eating a high fat diet consistently and then suddenly eating a high sugar meal will probably cause blood sugar issues with a lot of people. Eating a high fat low carb diet essentially makes you "diabetic", because you will have increased blood FFA.

    This study talks about skipping breakfast and high blood sugar after a meal. Here is a quote from the artical...

    Acute elevation of plasma FFA also induces hepatic insulin resistance and increased hepatic glucose production in patients with type 2 diabetes and in control subjects without diabetes.

    High cortisol can also cause high blood sugar and Ray has mentioned that diagnosing insulin dependent diabetes without measuring sugar in the urine and the cortisol levels is irresponsible.

    In your case it might be a good idea to take it slow while (the addition of sugar) while also controlling other aspects of your diet like PUFA and possibly starches. If you are going to go "all out" then you need to make sure that everything you do is right on point. Low fat, high fruit, good calcium:phosphorus ratio, don't skip breakfast, frequent meals, under 4g PUFA, tracking your diet on cronometer, using aspirin and vitamin K consistently and in reasonable doses, possibly using niacin, getting all your micro nutrients everyday, getting enough but not too much protein, reducing general stress in your life, checking pulse and temps, maybe taking thyroid, ADEK, progesterone, etc.

    Since we can't be around when you're doing this, we just have to take your word that you are being diligent. Saying the above doesn't work is easy, but none of us are there to monitor you.

    With all that being said, I sincerely hope you get to a point where you feel good. Ultimately feeling good is the goal, right?
     
  12. schultz

    schultz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,754
    I refuse to disregard! :neener
     
  13. schultz

    schultz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,754
    Westside said some good thing (albeit in a "tough love" kind of way) while I was writing my post at the same time. He seems to have direct personal experience with this issue, whereas I don't, so what he said may be of more value but I think we are on the same page anyhow.
     
  14. kiran

    kiran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,054
    Gender:
    Male
    Another thing that can raise blood glucose is an elevated PTH, which can be caused by inadequate Calcium or vit D.

    Peat's perception of elevated blood glucose is the reverse of the traditional view of diabetes. The elevated glucose is a response to a stressor of some sort, and its protective.

    The big advantage to taking things slow is that you can figure out your vitamin (esp adek) requirements as you go along. Eating carbs/sugar can raise your vitamin needs dramatically.
     
  15. cantstoppeating

    cantstoppeating Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2014
    Messages:
    584
    There's a lot more to it. If one is borderline obese, they can eat almost anything as long as it's calorically controlled and lose excess fat, see the "Twinkie experiment" where an overweight guy ate only twinkies and lost excess fat and became relatively healthier.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/0 ... professor/

    If people struggle with the sugar they can stick to getting good quality protein, including glycine and proline, high ratio of calcium to phosphorous, saturated fat, eliminating PUFA.
     
  16. jyb

    jyb Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    UK
    If you eat fat, obviously you'll get more FFA. Your cells are just using what you eat, so that's expected. But you are implying that pathological FFA (caused by PUFA for example) is the same as FFA when the body uses saturated fats for energy. It's completely different, these are two very different types of insulin resistance. One is permanent, the other is physiological and comes and goes a few times per day so as to maintain stable blood glucose. Peter from Hyperlipid has written dozens of articles on what he calls physiological insulin resistance and he makes a clear distinction between the two cases. The fact that in disease people have elevated PUFA type FFA due to broken carb and fat metabolism is almost irrelevant to the second case and translates into a different blood sugar & FFA composition. Night and day for blood sugar and health, really.

    I think confusing stress and diabetes with saturated FFA, and keeping carbs so high when the author just went to the emergency room, is playing with fire. I can see the rational for doing so, coupled with reduced PUFA and nutritious diet to get the co-factors hoping that glucose metabolism will resume, but I personally wouldn't go down that route (anymore) even though I have no diabetic problems. There are other ways to achieve a stable blood sugar level with normal usage of both glucose and saturated fat.
     
  17. Nicholas

    Nicholas Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    666
    Occupation:
    Carpenter
    all is well. your quest for healing does not end here. it has taught you, hopefully, that you can't trick the cells or work against them (whether you were conscious of this at the time). that you have to work with them. this is why it's better to study the way the body works rather than study what/how foods or diets or supplements work. studying and focusing on function leads to function. studying aspirin, sugar, vitamin e, fat studies, diabetes causes, etc. is not studying function. Peat has helped to open more a world of focusing on function, and our natural inclination is to focus on dysfunction. i am biased i guess, but i feel you are learning a very valuable lesson here. imagine it this way: your body is actually instructing YOU by these latest events. It wants to get better, but on its terms only.

    your body/cells still desire to be healthy. your body right now is SUPPORTING you even if it feels like it's working against you. the trick is meeting your body where it is and learning how to work collaboratively with it again. i wish you the best.
     
  18. OP
    artemis

    artemis Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Messages:
    195
    Thank you all for the replies. I just tested my BG this morning and it's 117! So relieved! So I have lowered it from 363 last Saturday to 117 today, just by being very strict this past week, and eating pretty much only protein, no carbs or sugar. I don't know what caused my troubles. It's very confusing. Marikay says complex carbs cause diabetes. Burtlancast's study says that "whole grains are associated with a lower risk of diabetes." Others say fat causes it. I have read so much about diabetes over these past few months...read conflicting studies, read and re-read Ray, read others, read diabetes forums, and there's just so much conflicting information. All I can go by is what works for me.

    I don't need you to tell me to be honest. I am an honest person. I don't lie, or even embellish. It would be pretty silly for someone to come on this forum, seeking help, and lie about things, don't you think?
    I am not overweight. If anything, I am a little underweight. I'm 5'8", 132 pounds. I have big bones (really!), big hands and feet, so I appear kind of bony.

    I don't know what "type" I have. Sorry to confound your definitive diagnosis, but I'm not overweight.

    Yes, I had those high numbers for awhile. Yes, one can indeed have them for awhile. I was in denial about it for at least a month before I finally went and got a meter and tested. I was so scared, I emailed Ray a couple of times. I specifically asked if it was an emergency. He replied with a couple of suggestions such as taking some baking soda a few times a day, making sure I was getting enough calcium, etc. He did not address my question about whether it was an emergency or not. I took that to mean he didn't consider it an emergency.

    And what exactly is your point in bringing up my old posts about my past fungal issues, Westside PUFA's? I had it beat, I was happy, I thought the change in the color of the tissue around the anus was an interesting point, a good sign. Was this TMI for your delicate sensibilities? Sorry. (I'm hardly the only one who posts this type of thing. Have you read some of narouz's posts?!)

    Yes, all of that from the green can gelatin. Made me sick as hell. Are you suggesting that I was lying about this?

    I've always said I started Peating in November. I said I had been at it for about 6 months when I started seeing symptoms of high blood sugar. That was a few months ago. Got it? Keep trying, Westside PUFA's. I'm sure you'll come up with something.

    I didn't mention it because I didn't think it was particularly relevant, and I can't mention everything. This post is already a page long, and I haven't mentioned lots of other stuff I wanted to talk about.

    WTF does this even mean? You just don't buy what? Yes, I had a fungal infection, and yes, I knew it. You seem to fancy yourself some sort of internet "sleuth," digging up old posts in the hope of catching someone in a lie? Or something? Get a life, dude.

    I can't imagine anyone hating you. Your posts are so helpful and relevant! Not confrontational at all.

    Thank you, tara, for your input. All good points, as usual. You know, I thought about the A1/A2 milk thing as being a possible trigger. Who knows? I can only get A1 where I live, so I've stopped drinking it for now just in case.

    cantstoppeating, I remember you said you've been dealing with blood glucose issues recently as well. I do take those hormones, but only in fairly low doses. Maybe I should try a larger dose of pregnenolone. I've never really noticed anything from it. Have you found any help in any of the other things you've tried? (Weren't you trying stuff like aspirin/B-vitamins/specific amino acids?)

    nicholas, thank you so much for your post. Your kind words helped a lot.
     
  19. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2015
    Messages:
    2,466
    Metformin users often report getting diarrhea, and in the long run many lose their ability to absorb vitamin B12.

    For the moment I would focus on getting off metformin, and probably try a vitamin B12 shot to see if it makes a difference... Then take is slow with adding in some carbs from fruits (potassium) and dairy products. Where I live it's hard/impossible to get goat's milk, but there are many different cheeses made of goat's or sheep's milk.

    Hang in there, Artemis!
     
  20. mt_dreams

    mt_dreams Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    619
    You only listed one of the things you tried, so not sure if you have already tried the following ...
    How were you magnesium levels? insulin burns mag, and a good % of people with pre-diabetes are low in the mineral, so you want to make sure you take in more. Ingesting bi-carbs is also critical if your body (pancreas I believe) isn't producing enough of it. Blood alkalinity would also probably help things. So essentially a nice mag bi-carb concoction would be worth a try.

    Carb wise, apples are better sugar source for managing insulin due to the slightly higher fructose. cinnamon in known to improve glucose levels. Nibble on carbs, don't take in big quantities. If you're salt does not contain iodine, you may want to look at iodine as a possible stability measure, though some people don't react well to iodine.

    Fat & protein diets do work wonders for some people. It's the long term health that concerns me with not taking in carbs. That being said, the stress from knowing you have high glucose levels is probably having the most impact on your body, so it's good to know you're not dealing with that anymore.
     
Loading...