1.5ish years of PM eating & now I'm seemingly pre-diabetic...

[Peatful]

You are right to eye up pushy forum self proclaimed experts.

I think this was addressing me?
Rhetorical.

That's actually quite possible, probably way too much OJ.

This is a great point regarding K.
Also why I think, and stated, solid nutrition over liquids.
Much harder digestive wise and certainly blood sugar wise.



I not saying anything that I wouldn’t say to my children or husband.
I’ve been where you are.

What was your blood sugar like when you were using cortisol to regulate it vs now?
Do you have those numbers?

It’s no way to live.
Burning our adrenals to the ground.
Which increases estrogen because your AG are supposed to be pumping out the progesterone- but they are too exhausted balancing BS.
So high estrogen-> low thyroid.


I looked briefly at some of your hx.

Surviving poverty and hunger is quite a feat.
Be great for you to break that cycle of survival.
You say you’re still go go go kinda person-
But I found rest. Literally doing nothing. Really important for my healing.


I went full fledge diabetic.
Confusion at the start of it.
But honed in on my macros and trusted my body to learn how to use sugar again-
Because while I was concerned- other positive things were changing for me.
I came from a severe starvation state as well.

This is what I dont want is the pseudo recovery for you.
All this work and change with no benefits.

It would take pages and pages of data and discussion to make headway of it all.
But I wanted to let you know that my suggestions were very intentional; not flippant. (Adjective: not showing a serious or respectful attitude)

 

[I'm.No.One]

This is a great point regarding K.
Also why I think, and stated, solid nutrition over liquids.
Much harder digestive wise and certainly blood sugar wise.

It's too expensive now anyways (like $8 for a half gallon where I live) but I'll also note that me drinking OJ as a main liquid source doesn't mean I'm not focusing on nutritional foods. But I hear ya.

I not saying anything that I wouldn’t say to my children or husband.
I’ve been where you are.

What was your blood sugar like when you were using cortisol to regulate it vs now?
Do you have those numbers?

I do not, but i never had crashes like these.

It’s no way to live.
Burning our adrenals to the ground.
Which increases estrogen because your AG are supposed to be pumping out the progesterone- but they are too exhausted balancing BS.
So high estrogen-> low thyroid.

I'm actually not estrogen dominant at all, my temps are good most days.

I'm actually progesterone dominant & low in T.

The hardest part about figuring things out for myself health wise is I don't match the common high estrogen/low progesterone is the issue theme.

I looked briefly at some of your hx.

Surviving poverty and hunger is quite a feat.
Be great for you to break that cycle of survival.
You say you’re still go go go kinda person-
But I found rest. Literally doing nothing. Really important for my healing.

Yeah I hear you, I also have a kinda rare neurodiversity (not autism) where my brain works in matrix thinking with much higher psycho motor capacity than the norm. Which translates to doing nothing actually wrecks my mental health, but there's a fine line I have to walk for sure because my brain will take over not caring if my physical body has limitations.

But I wanted to let you know that my suggestions were very intentional; not flippant. (Adjective: not showing a serious or respectful attitude)

I hear you, also you don't have to copy/paste word definition for me, just for future reference.

So far in my early discussion with Danny it's looking like aspirin may have depleted my K levels even with supplementary taken (especially on the day of the first occurrence).

Cortisol has likely been disrupted again, I kinda was in denial about that but the ringing in my ears the last few days is a tail tell sign for me. I've asked him about the potential of cypro rebound being a cause.

I've ordered a slew of test kits to get a recent look at D levels/cholesterol/see what my pituitary gland is doing/prolactin levels & I'll go from there again.

 

[Vesi]

Female, 36, 5'4, 132 lbs, very active farm life, 2500-3000 calories daily, carb heavy.

Came to PM eating from a pretty low/learned calorie intake, was about 98lbs when I began PM eating.

Never restricted carbs, fat, meat, just didn't eat enough consistent meals except dinner.

I'd say I'm only, from visual appearance of my body, 5-8 lbs overweight, but after a lifetime of basically being a walking bag of bones I figure it will take my body time to feel safe enough to let go of that.

I have however plateaued & do not continue to gain weight.

Sups:

325mg Aspirin
Thorne Vit k
Vit E
Cypro 1-3 x a week as needed.
Bee pollen
Pine pollen (I have low T)
Ideal labs androgens 1-2 drops cycled with my cycle.
Occasionally MB

The last week or so I had been having kinda out of the blue overwhelming waves of emotion & just feeling suddenly off so I went & bought a glucose meter.

The first time I tested I was in the 20 range, dangerous as hell.

I thought it might have been from taking double aspirin that morning coupled with a somewhat smaller than normal breakfast.

I stopped taking aspirin.

Thinking I was hypoglycemic from it + maybe not enough protein alongside the fruit I had for breakfast the next day I had more starch/protein.

Before I even got hungry in the afternoon my blood sugar dangerously plummeted again.

So I started tracking morning levels/after meals/whenever I feel off for the last week.

This morning my fasting blood sugar is 120, yesterday it was 140... This indicates pre-diabetic or outright diabetes.

I will add that I go hypo rapidly & often no matter how much I'm eating then it skyrockets back up & my ears start ringing.

My diet typically looks like:

Fruits
Meats
Cheese
OJ
Potatoes
More cheese
Ample raw goats milk
Maple syrup
Honey
Rice
Eggs
Animal fats for cooking
Sourdough bread when I make it
Pasta when I make it

I'm pretty mindful about pairing these all in the PM fashion carbs/protein.

This feels pretty devastating to be honest.

I had JUST got my body back from severe burnout, finally had good cortisol levels, was really staring to feel good with genuine energy returning.

Then BAM this hits me, and it really did just hit me. I'd never had these symptoms before.

Ideas? Experience?

Didnt see you mention gelatin or collagen, do you eat those?

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Peat is missing many teeth and says he has never checked his blood sugar levels. So there is that.

You are right to eye up pushy forum self proclaimed experts.

He said he lost those teeth in the same time period, after experimenting with flax seed for protein, for several months or a under a year… it was before he knew of the calcium to phosphorus ratio. This was about 40-50 years ago. FWIW, He also implemented gelatin late in his age.

Flax is high in phosphorus.
calcium not only balances the saliva PH required for remineralization to occur, it’s the very mineral necessary for mineralization.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Yeah I was gana make a bunch of gummy squares today, I also add it to my oj & such often.

I'll give that a look see.

Nice.

Stoked you emailed Danny!

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

maybe your potassium levels are too high? i think that affects insulin.

That's actually quite possible, probably way too much OJ.

I’d definitely be interested in Danny’s thoughts on this, because mainstream understandings of blood levels and cellular sensitivity are so screwed.

So, Peat says that insulin accounts for 8% of insulinic activity, and potassium needs to account for a minimum of 40% of insulinic activity, lest you have to produce more insulin to compensate… something along those lines.

I’m interested in if there’s an upper limit in even the ratio of potassium to sugar, that’s found in nature.

 

[I'm.No.One]

Didnt see you mention gelatin or collagen, do you eat those?

Yep, I'm also an avid eater of all things cartilage when I cook meat.

 

[I'm.No.One]

I’d definitely be interested in Danny’s thoughts on this, because mainstream understandings of blood levels and cellular sensitivity are so screwed.

So, Peat says that insulin accounts for 8% of insulinic activity, and potassium needs to account for a minimum of 40% of insulinic activity, lest you have to produce more insulin to compensate… something along those lines.

I’m interested in if there’s an upper limit in even the ratio of potassium to sugar, that’s found in nature.

Wouldn't that make someone have higher blood sugar though?

Or would it be the over production to compensate that's making me reactive hypoglycemia?

Just thinking out loud really.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Just thinking out loud really.

Lol same.

I’m referring to these vids (elsewhere I can’t find at the moment, he gives the numbers I gave).


View: https://youtu.be/bYAihAkCaw8



View: https://youtu.be/RwwIq8n-Ufk

 

[I'm.No.One]

Okay, I'm still waiting for the lab ran A1C test to come back but today I went ahead & bought one of the home test kits from a pharmacy.

A1C came back at 5.

However from what I'm reading this isn't necessarily accurate because I've been experiencing severe hypoglycemic events.

So it could just be a 90 day average of my blood sugar being too low.

 

[I'm.No.One]

Just gana keep putting info here because someone will potentially go though this themselves.

Okay, so, I'm now only really having crashes after I eat in the morning, although that's an improvement some are literally occuring while I'm still eating.

Pushing really hard to get into a Dr just so I can get a physical look at my pancreas. I have damn near all of the symptoms of a pancreatic tumor, including the sudden onset of reactive hypoglycemia.

In fact, it seems like in non diabetic people reactive hypoglycemia is highly linked to typically benign growths. I think it will just be smart to rule this out.

Although I will say I have great digestion, typically going 1-2 times a day with ghost wipes. I bring that up because typically a tumor (or even cancer) on the pancreas messes up digestion/gives some nasty sh!ts.

I'm also, after some digging, thinking chronic aspirin use + a bad concussion (last May) + carb heavy eating finally depleted my b1 to a dangerous level.

In a lot of refeeding studies in various eating disorders or anyone who is just, well, not eating enough, they have to give thiamine before feedings because if not the pancreas over reacts to the glucose & just pumps out way too much insulin.

It's not insulin resistants, but a sudden dump that our bodies absolutely respond to & the blood sugar levels plummet before they even rise.

It also hits people suddenly, such as beriberi syndrome.

The day it suddenly began I took an extra aspirin (650mg total) & it had been a week of extra hard/stressful work so my body would have already been raging through B vits & magnesium.

I'm well past refeeding, meaning I've been at a good BMI for well over a year, I just am making the correlation between the low B1 levels that create reactive hypoglycemia in those who are just beginning to gain weight.

My body, due to benzo damage, genuinely does not tolerate isolated vitamin B's. No, it doesn't matter if I start really slow & tiny, the symptoms it brings back up from benzo withdrawal are horrendous.

So I started doing the hot water brewers yeast (solar brand) method, while it has yet to stop the crashes in the morning I'm not not crashing in later day meals & I feel my mental capacity coming back such as word recall/short term memory that had gotten actually pretty scary when this first started.

I do notice I now no longer have a gradual build of hunger, I'm just suddenly so hungry if I don't eat right then & there my blood sugar will absolutely plummet. It's like a don't get a warning.

So, that's also new.

I've also begun to have light aching near the area in the back that correlates to the pancreas, I'm using castor oil packs for that. Seems to keep the aching away for 2-3 days.

This is long, crazy, & nothing is never simple for me when things go wrong ?

 

[Dolomite]

Thank you for the update. I hope you can get some answers about the pancreas. It sounds like even though you have resolved your low body weight you really work hard and your body is under a lot of stress. I understand that running a farm isn't an even steady job but if you can ease up on some of the labor it might help.

 

[Peatness]

You mentioned concussion which made me think about this article

Post Concussive Metabolic Dysfunction in a Dancer - Hormones Matter

We feel that every day is getting worse than the day before, and our hope has faded to a tiny pinprick of light.

www.hormonesmatter.com

A thread on head injuries

Head Injury

Some useful info on traumatic head injuries - treatment timing makes a difference https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29952272/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15771708/ Magnesium - Nutrition and Traumatic Brain Injury - NCBI Bookshelf https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28711170/ Prevalence and...

raypeatforum.com

 

[I'm.No.One]

So I thought I'd give a bit of an update.

If I could change the heading of this thread I would, it would read:

"1.5ish years of PM eating & now I have reactive hypoglycemia..."

But, anyhow finally got in to see a Dr, got some labs.

Liver is a tad unhappy, but my TSH is elevated so I'm thinking working on my thyroid via T3 might help my liver out some.

There are some indications that I'm really depleted in folate/b vits from my elevated MCV, but I had suspected that. Using brewers yeast, hot water method. My body doesn't react well to isolated B's.

My PTH needs some work, a bit elevated, waiting on a Vit D test to see if that's what's up because my calcium is low & I drink a goat's worth of milk on a regular basis.

My A1C came back, again, at 5.2 but here's the thing, my estimated average glucose is only 103.

Yet my C-peptide came back at 6.36

So I'm over producing insulin but I'm absolutely still sensitive to it.

They kinda did a test for the insulin related tumor but she didn't make me fast for 72 hours so the test was basically useless.

Here's the main change though:

I'm no longer crashing hard after eating, my blood sugar is literally just not rising.

So, this morning for example. I woke up, had slightly elevated morning blood sugar of 102 (stress/unhappy liver) then I ate sourdough French toast, cherries, two pieces of bacon, & a glass of milk.

An hour later my blood sugar was 100.

I know a mainstream Dr is gana be all happy that my numbers are that low, but I feel like ***t & according to my C peptides am obviously over producing insulin.

Please don't tell me to eat/not eat xyz, I've tried every combo in the morning possible. It doesn't make a difference, my pancreas pumps out excess insulin no matter what I'm eating.

Anyhow, in working with Danny Roddy his main theory so far is my thyroid/D3. I don't entirely disagree, & will be working these things.

I'm just a let's look at all perspectives kinda gal, especially with how fast/sudden this all hit me.

I also slowly continue to lose weight with no calorie restriction, I know this is supposed to be a sign my metabolism coming back on line but it doesn't feel like that to be honest.

Losing about an lb per week.

Anyhow, this is basically just a health log at this point.

 

[Dolomite]

It sounds like you have a good plan to help your liver. Then maybe your pancreas over activity might resolve, too. I may sound like a broken record but perhaps some soluble fiber as in beans could help.

 

[I'm.No.One]

It sounds like you have a good plan to help your liver. Then maybe your pancreas over activity might resolve, too. I may sound like a broken record but perhaps some soluble fiber as in beans could help.

I've been having oat bran as hot cereal, didn't seem to help although I continue to eat it 2-3 times a week.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

You know, I think it’s all gonna work itself out remarkably well in the next few months of working on thyroid :)

 

[I'm.No.One]

An update:

I think trial by error showed me what's causing it or at the very least contributing to my low blood sugar levels.

As of late I haven't been crashing, my blood sugar just won't climb past 105ish mark until mid day.

Had a super stressful day yesterday, took a single topical drop of cypro from ideal labs.

It helped a lot & my morning blood sugar was under 98, which was great comparatively (stress).

Today had the potential to be... unavoidably rough. So I took another topical drop.

Feel like absolute dog sh*t, kinda out of it.

Tested my blood sugar, already dropped to the 80s (from 107 this morning, barely been two hours since eating)

Hmmm...

"The effect of cyproheptadine (Cypro) and Placebo administration on insulin secretion and glucose utilization following i.v. glucose (IVGTT) was evaluated in 8 normal, 7 diabetic and 8 acromegalic subjects. Five of the diabetic subjects had overt diabetes and two of the diabetic subjects had "chemical" diabetes (oral GTT). One of the acromegalic subjects had overt diabetes, while one had borderline glucose tolerance and six had normal glucose tolerance (oral GTT). Cypro increased insulin secretion in the acromegalic but not in the diabetic or normal subjects. Methysergide (Methy) increased insulin secretion in acromegalic and diabetic subjects but not in normal subjects. Methy and Cypro both increased insulin secretion in the same acromegalic subjects. None of the three groups of subjects had a modification in insulin secretion following Placebo administration. Neither Placebo, Cypro or Methy altered the glucose utilization rate contant (KG). There was no change in insulin half life or tissue sensitivity to insulin from Cypro (normal and acromegalic subjects) or Methy (normal subjects) administration."

Effect of cyproheptadine administration on insulin secretion in acromegalic, diabetic and normal subjects. - PDF Download Free

So on alllll of the blood work I've had done my insulin levels are elevated, but my glucose is on average 103.

I had slowly been recovering & it had been well over a month since I had taken cypro.

I still have some other areas to look into & I think there are other contributing factors, but the odds of my first crash in a while happening at the same time I begin using tiny amounts of Cypro are... suspicious.

Edit to add: I'm not sure if the study entirely applies as I've never had my growth hormones tested in regards to this being an effect on the acromegalic group but it might very well point in a direction I should be looking into

 

[James IV]

I did not read this thread in its entirety, so others may have already suggested this; but I would consider the possibility you have activated an infection. Active infections can drastically change the way your body uses energy, particularly from carbohydrates.

Beyond that, I shall not give any specific advice other than true open mindedness when it comes to food. Don’t let what you know limit you. Something you know is unhealthy, may be key to regaining your health.

 

[I'm.No.One]

I did not read this thread in its entirety, so others may have already suggested this; but I would consider the possibility you have activated an infection. Active infections can drastically change the way your body uses energy, particularly from carbohydrates.

Beyond that, I shall not give any specific advice other than true open mindedness when it comes to food. Don’t let what you know limit you. Something you know is unhealthy, may be key to regaining your health.

I actually just got a full immune panel back to rule out a potential infection or autoimmune issues.

Nope nada. Zero signs of infection & no auto immune issues. My immune system is basically, for lack of a better term just setting perfectly idle. Nothing is elevated, nothing is low.

The end of your message is rather cryptic, you might be telling me to eat PUFAs?

If so I'm not a PUFA orthorexic, I still eat naturally occurring PUFAs such as eggs/chicken.