Ray Peat On Iodine

Discussion in 'Written Interviews' started by Makrosky, Sep 22, 2015.

  1. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    Ok, so many people is talking about iodine now. A user called visionsofstrenght over the old peatarian.com forum posted this, so I'm copying it here as well. Original thread (http://beesandbutterflies.org/52426/iod ... 426#q52426)

     
  2. montmorency

    montmorency Member

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    FWIW, Abraham, Flechas and Brownstein do not go by the iodine patch test.

    Abraham especially rubbishes the so-called Wolff-Chaikoff effect.

    Well, since Ray has let them have both barrels, I think it's only fair to hear the other side:

    BTW, the dosage of 150 mcg was established way back as that necessary to prevent overt goitre, and nothing else.. Does Ray seriously believe that iodine is not used in the rest of the body? David Derry, among others talks about this, and very interesting it is too.
    It doesn't take that big of a daily dose to saturate the thyroid, but when that is achieved further doses are then available for the rest of the body, e.g. breasts, ovaries, prostate...lots of places. It's in nasal mucus, for example, so if you have a cold and runny nose, you are losing iodine all the time.

    Anyway, here are some views from the other side of the trenches:

    http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/pdfs/IOD14.pdf
    http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/pdfs/IOD15.pdf
    http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/pdfs/IOD16.pdf

    (The only thing that worries me about Abraham is that he's obviously a member of the god-squad and he lets it interfere with his scientific views).
    (no offence...)

    I'm a little surprised that Ray takes those studies he cites at face value. After all, he's pretty cynical about medical studies and medical literature in general, so why isn't he at least skeptical about those? Perhaps because they confirm his pre-existing views. After all, after the "Wolff-Chaikoff Effect" was "discovered", it seems that then it was normal to assume that "excess" iodine inhibited thyroid function. This became the received wisdom like "cholesterol causes heart disease" or "saturated fat causes heart disease", and nobody questioned it. Therefore studies would tend to be designed to support this now normal belief (and quite probably, people who wanted to do genuinely open-minded studies that could go either way would not get funding or not get published.

    And lastly, unlike the usual Ray, he does not define a physiological mechanism which demonstrates exactly why "excess" iodine causes hypothyroid (or Hashi's, or both). Since iodine supplementation in any quantity has been so unpopular for so long, you'd think someone could have discovered exactly why this happened by now, if indeed it was happening.

    Edit: I notice that quite a few of those studies are animal studies, one is a human n=1 study of a man eating loads of seaweed (not measured) - the "iodine Doctors" do not recommend seaweed, the other human test seem to depend on lab tests (and isn't Ray always telling us that traditional doctors (like Broda Barnes) went more by the actual human symptoms, which are not mentioned there. The Wolff-Chaikoff one, I'll leave to Abraham to refute.

    As for this:
    WTF?

    And they all mention "excess iodine" as if this were some cabalistic or sacred number revealed from on high, instead of a number to be determined by experiment. If you previously define "excess" as, say, more than 1mg per day, then the answer to the question "how do you know that what X is taking is excess?" the answer will always be "well, because it's more than 1mg per day, stupid!".

    Oh, of course.

    Colour-supplement science.
     
  3. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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    An evaluation of Abraham's iodine test kid

    If you want to spoil your day, read Abraham's rant on the Wolff-Chaikoff effect. :mrgreen:
     
  4. ilovewriting

    ilovewriting Member

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    Ray Peat writes extensively about how important iodine is to mitochondrial function, prevention of inflammation and even endotoxins, and did so decades before Abraham and Brownstein began their reckless promotion of their product.

    The mechanism of unsafe overdosing on iodine seems to be that the combination of iodide with unsaturated fatty acids suppresses the thyroid.

    From Nutrition for Women (1993), Page 17:
    and on Page 50:
    And this:

    Email. From Cini Staughn: I continue to see folks on health forums obviously being harmed by iodine
    therapy, especially we autoimmune thyroid folks - and yet the advice they are often given is just take more. Or to do salt flushes for detox. It's all rather frightening and I hope this high iodine fad passes at some time. I've been outspoken on thyroid forums regarding the need for caution in using Abraham/Brownstein's high dose iodine protocol, in particular for AITD (Hasimoto’s Thyroiditis). I was even banned from Iodine yahoo forum when I criticized Dr. Brownstein for not even testing TSI antibodies when his Hashi's folks had problems, etc. (so far some of the most adverse reactions have been by those with TSI antibodies). The moderator is a patient of his. I heard you are also a critic of the Brownstein iodine protocol...and refute some of the displacing bromide/fluoride claims. I'm just writing to say that we critics sure could use some more ammunition. Time for you to write an article? :): I have AITD myself...and am so tired of seeing my fellow AITD folks getting harmed by high dose iodine. Is someone making a mint off of Iodoral? Anyway, just wanted to express my thoughts...it's time for the high iodine fad to pass away before more AITD folks are harmed.

    From Dr. Ray Peat: I can send you quite a bit of information about the toxic effects of even a relatively small excess amount of iodine, even a milligram. Considering the huge amount of publicity, I would suppose that they are making a lot of money on it.
     
  5. Parsifal

    Parsifal Member

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    That's great and very interesting! Thanks ilovewriting :).
     
  6. drk

    drk Member

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    Regarding iodine in bread - My understanding is that iodine was replaced with bromine a long time ago, potassium bromate, more specifically.
    I had read that Iodine is important for the structural integrity of breast tissue and other reproductive organs. 3000mcg was shown in a study to improve fibrocystic breasts, although I got good feedback regarding a significant reduction in cysts (upon palpation) at approx 170mcg a day from kelp extract.
    From what I read 150mcg to a few hundred mcgs of iodine per day, especially for women seem both safe and beneficial. Also in pregnancy iodine requirements rise to 250mcg and adequate intake may help both the fetus (brain development and cognitive function) and mother (to help prevent or reduce hypothyroid related symptoms) postpartum.
     
  7. HDD

    HDD Member

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    A friend of mine has been seeing a doctor for six months regarding low thyroid function. She has blood work done regularly. Both her doctor and her naturopath have recommended iodine supplementation. She has been supplementing 12.5 mg for the past six months and her recent labwork still shows low in iodine, 31.7 (ref. 40-92) Her naturopth told her that her thyroid medication blocks iodine.

    Besides bloodwork, her naturopath had her do an iodine loading test. She ingested Iodorol and then measured output.

    I have sent her what Ray Peat says about iodine deficiency so she asked me to inquire here about her continued low serum iodine while supplementing.

    Anyone know why supplementing is not improving her numbers?
     
  8. Luna

    Luna Member

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    Indeed, potassium bromate is used in bread, however some countries have now banned it as it may be a potential carcinogen.

    As a wikipedia search yields this:
    Given that you mentioned, Iodine is used in breast tissues,
    I wonder if the Bromine from Potassium Bromine, is occupying the place of Iodine in the breast tissues, when breads are replaced of Iodine with Potassium Bromine.

    It is interesting to point out that in Japan, cancer rates are lower, and iodine intake is higher as per @Kasper 's quote of Funahashi's et al article, in another forum:
    Also, this is not the only argument those doctors who lead which they call, the iodine revival.


    Iodine, is it needed in other tissues other than thyroid?
     
  9. uchihaMadara

    uchihaMadara Member

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    Deiodinase type I (D1)
    D1 converts inactive T4 to active T3 throughout the body. D1 activity is also lower in females making women more prone to tissue hypothyroidism, with resultant depression, fatigue, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and obesity despite having normal TSH levels. D1 but not D2 is suppressed and down-regulated (decreasing T4 to T3 conversion) in response to physiologic and emotional stress; depression; dieting; weight gain and leptin resistance; insulin resistance, obesity and diabetes; inflammation from autoimmune disease or systemic illness; chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia; chronic pain; and exposure to toxins and plastics.

    Deiodinase type II (D2)
    Pituitary T3 levels are determined by D2 activity, which is 1000 times more efficient at converting T4 to T3 than the D1 enzyme present in the rest of the body. D2 also has an opposite response from that of D1 to physiologic and emotional stress, depression, both dieting and weight gain, PMS, diabetes, leptin resistance, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, inflammation, autoimmune disease, and systemic illness. D2 is stimulated and up-regulated (increased activity) in response to such conditions, increasing intra-pituitary T4 to T3 conversion while the rest of body suffers from diminished levels of active T3. This causes the TSH to remain normal despite the fact that there is significant cellular hypothyroidism present in the rest of the body.

    Deiodinase type III (D3)

    The pituitary is the only tissue that does not contain D3, which converts T4 to reverse T3 and competes with D1 that converts T4 to T3. Reverse T3 is a competitive inhibitor of T3, blocking T3 from binding to its receptor and blocking T3 effect, reduces metabolism, suppresses D1 and T4 to T3 conversion, and blocks T4 and T3 uptake into the cell, all reducing intracellular T3 levels and thyroid activity.

    The research implies lower metabolism in women, most likely attributed with estrogen in circulation. Most of us know Ray's view on estrogen in the body, but this directly correlates with hypometabolic states others have been trying to grasp. If cells have low deiodinase I activity, T4 does not convert to T3. If deiodinase III is high, r-T3 blocks T3 action, if any, and induces hypometabolism. Taking excess iodine may suppress the thyroid, but I would at least hope that someone researches the necessary cofactors prior to excess supplementation. However, tissue T4 to T3 conversion is an often overlooked topic. I would advise to consider the factors potentially blocking thyroid function such as differing deiodinase activity as excess iodine/iodide may be excreted out of circulation via kidneys. I'm aware of iodine storage in other tissues than the thyroid as well. However, if the cells cannot utilize the thyroid hormones properly, there is little point in consuming excess iodine/iodide in hopes of saturating tissues and improving metabolism.

    Source: diodinases (includes 283 references)
     
  10. papaya

    papaya Member

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    this is very interesting info. are there supplements u can take to change deiodinase levels?
     
  11. Fractality

    Fractality Member

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    What about using iodine (Lugol's) as a mouth rinse? Would that risk overdose?
     
  12. Mauritio

    Mauritio Member

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    Iodine is the only thing that helps me sleep. It doesnt knock me out or anything rather it feels pretty natural. Can somebody try to explain that ?
    I do not get the same effect from T3/T4 (Tyromix) ,so I wonder what it converts to ?!
     
  13. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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    The pineal gland isn't protected by the blood brain barrier: it will accumulate halides like fluoride and bromide, as well as heavy metals like mercury. It's actually the organ who accumulates the most fluoride. And thus won't be able to secrete melatonin as it should.

    Iodine detoxifies the pineal gland and allows it to secrete normally melatonin. It will inactivate the mercury and replace the fluoride and bromide.
     
  14. Mauritio

    Mauritio Member

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    Let's suppose that is the mechanism behind it. Do you think it really decalcifies/detoxes my pineal gland and returns melatonin production to normal in matter of minutes ? Because that is how fast i feel the effects.
     
  15. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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    There are a few testimonies on the web on iodine's helpful effects on sleep quality, notably from life-long sufferers of delayed sleep phase syndrome who miraculously return to a normal sleep cycle.

    Iodine detoxifies bromine by a factor of 20 in a matter of hours; and bromine is known to disturb both sleep and daytime activities.

    Maybe it also enhances thyroid hormone production.

    It's a very complex subject, but i'm pretty sure it's effects on halides is central to it's beneficial effect on sleep quality.
     
  16. Mauritio

    Mauritio Member

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    Okay interesting!
     
  17. Spartan300

    Spartan300 Member

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    @Mauritio how are you using Iodine for sleep - Lugols & how much?
     
  18. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    My understanding from reading Nathan Hatch's book is that melatonin is actually not a beneficial hormone. Yes it helps you sleep, but it helps you sleep through the "stress" pathway (i.e., not restful sleep). What we want is high GABA - this is the "pro-metabolic", "restful" sleep indicating hormone. GABA seems difficult to get high in, which is probably why I never feel rested lol.

    I'm sure it also doesn't help that I am probably still high in Bromine since I haven't been mega dosing Iodine very long yet.
     
  19. Dave Clark

    Dave Clark Member

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    Speaking of GABA, they say the drug picamilon crosses the BBB and breaks down into GABA and niacin, which is why it has relaxing/sedating qualities. Has anyone here used picamilon to help with sleep issues? I used it years ago for during-the-day use to relax myself, and it had nice effects, but never used it before bedtime.
     
  20. Mauritio

    Mauritio Member

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    Just one or two drops orally right before bed...
     
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