Mega Dosing Iodine = Bad, Destroys Thyroid Tissue Permanently

BigChad

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Glycine can be either stimulatory, or sedating. That is, if in glutamate mode, it'll amplify that excitatory state. If in GABA mode, it'll act more like a sedative. It can also be stimulatory due to GABA opposing serotonin, allowing acetylcholine and dopamine to go up. Eventually, GABA also opposes acetylcholine and everything else.

I see, that's interesting. I basically got both the stimulatory and sedative effects from it within a 24 hour period. supplementing GABA itself does not work, right? Apparently it is poorly absorbed in the intestine?

So lets say one wants to implement glycine or magnesium glycinate. Are you saying there is a waiting period where things may be rough for the first couple weeks or so of use, after that there's no issues supplementing glycine? Do you want GABA opposing acetylcholine and everything else. And in that case being a sedative would glycine only be suitable for use before bed
 

Amazoniac

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It occurred to me that fluorine is smaller and lighter than iodine, so picturing an equal amount of them as antagonistic is flawed; you has almost 7 parts of fluorine for every part of iodine. It would take that much less fluorine to be dealing with a similar number of molecules and negate if there was such thing as exact competition. Example: 30 mcg of fluorine and 200 mcg of iodine would be them in a 1:1 ratio of molecules.

- The Halogens | slideplayer.com/slide/9331113

upload_2019-10-19_19-52-43.png
 

Dave Clark

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It occurred to me that fluorine is smaller and lighter than iodine, so picturing an equal amount of them as antagonistic is flawed; you has almost 7 parts of fluorine for every part of iodine. It would take that much less fluorine to be dealing with a similar number of molecules and negate if there was such thing as exact competition. Example: 30 mcg of fluorine and 200 mcg of iodine would be them in a 1:1 ratio of molecules.

- The Halogens | slideplayer.com/slide/9331113

I remember Brownstein saying that because bromine was closer in size to iodine, it would take up in the iodine receptor before the other halogens would. He says that is one reason why people are more toxic with bromine, if I understood him correctly.
 

SOMO

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I highly suspect that iodine protects from the harmful effects of PUFA lipid peroxidation, because it works in part as an anti-oxidant, and also because it is able to saturate PUFA which in theory at least would render the PUFA less susceptible to oxidation. I suspect that iodine is to aquatic lifeforms as vitamin e is to plants on land, both serve to protect from oxidation of PUFA.

Do you have a source for this claim?

I tried to find evidence that Iodine saturates PUFA, but I haven't seen that to be the case anywhere.
In addition, iodine is used to measure the degree of unsaturation of an oil, so if it converted the oil into a saturated fat, this would skew the results.

The closest thing I've been able to see is that PUFA + Iodine makes Iodohydrins.
 
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I take 6-12 mg occasionally, with selenium. My thyroid lab tests have never gotten worse when I've taken it consistently - no increase in TSH and no drop in hormones. Therefore I am pretty sure the Wolf-Chaikoff doesn't occur to any significant extent in real life, but it sure does get parroted around. It's resemblant of some sort of lab-grown unicorn which only exists in the vacuum of dubious, 80 year old studies.

Therefore, statements like "iodine shuts down the thyroid" or "iodine damages the thyroid" better come with some pretty big proof. Real life proof. So far, I've seen none.

It's pretty clear the thyroid needs a little bit of iodine to do its job, which doesn't mean that giving it more will make it work better.
However, what's not clear is what other organs also need iodine, and how much. My skin greatly softens and becomes less dry when I take even as little as 6 mg daily, which I like.

I think taking 6-12 mg daily is fairly sensible. Megadoses of 50+ mg daily would not have been possible at any point in history through a normal diet, so going off that deep end is probably not a good idea long term.
 

Mauritio

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Guys, watch this documentary!
It talks about iodine and the connection to autism , intelligence and environmental toxins and more!

It's only available in german or french though. For those that speak them , I highly recommend watching it .

German version




FRENCH Version
MK White Rabbit
 

Re.Generate

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Amazoniac - I appreciate the open mind. At the end of the day, I don't really care about being on the "right" side of this debate, I just want to get better and hopefully be able to help others to do the same. Lots of good links you posted, definitely brings a lot open for discussion.

I think it's worth being critical of anyone, because no one (not even the great Ray Peat) has ALL the answers, but he's certainly among the closest out of most of the Dr'.s out there and I appreciate him for that. Blindly accepting things without critical thought is indeed why we're in the great medical crisis we're in today (the average public just takes their meds and doesn't ask questions, as we know).

Some notes for now:

I think the Iodine reacting with PUFA and therefore raising TSH is in fact, precisely what Dr. Brown is referring to when the TSH goes up through the roof for 3-6 months when under going high dose Iodine. I don't speak for him, but that'd be my guess. Worth investigating further. Maybe that's one reason it can take 3-6 months. Besides the Bromine detox, a lot of people have a ton of body fat, often most of which is PUFA. I wonder, then, if Iodine also causes a "PUFA detox". If that's so, then Iodine is even more valuable than I initially thought.

In the case of hyperthyroid, the link you posted pretty much concurs with Dr. Brown, it just doesn't quite clarify why. The why is because sometimes a thyroid nodule becomes autonomous. In this case its not that the Iodine itself is dangerous, but that the nodule is. This nodule does need to be removed BEFORE Iodine is supplemented further.

How does one propose to cure the thyroid from thyroid meds alone? In my opinion, Iodine is the only such cure. This question still has not been sufficiently answered to my tastes. A case example - my mom has hashi's and was told by her endocrinologist "you have to take thyroid meds for life". Thyroid meds are not a cure. They are a band-aid, the endocrinologist admitted as much. MEDS are what conventional medicine peddles as a "cure" these days. In the RP forums, I think most of you all can appreciate this fact. Why, instead of meds, don't we go to the source of the problem instead?

Thyroid hormone is simply not a replacement for Iodine, especially if Dr. Brown is correct, and every cell in the body uses Iodine. Cells don't know how to use Iodine in the form of thyroid hormone except to make energy. (I could be wrong ) But Dr. Brown didn't get the results he wanted from thyroid hormone alone (he talks about this) which is what prompted him to seek further treatment options in the first place (Iodine). He wasn't happy with his patient recovery rate until Iodine was introduced.

Vitamin and mineral intake is always important. Some of the studies may incorrectly indicate Iodine intake with disease, if someone was not taking the necessary co-nutrients. In fact, Dr. Brown admits that even a body full saturated with Iodine may still have problems if they aren't getting the appropriate vitamins and minerals. He had a case study with a patient that was 95% saturated with Iodine but still complained he didn't feel better. This was rectified overnight by giving him ATP co-factors (Vitamin B2 and B3).

If Iodine caused thyroid cancer, Nathan Hatch would be dead. In fact he cured his thyroid cancer, in part, by mega dosing Iodine.



This statement contradicts itself. "when they took supplements of kelp" which BTW contains Iodine... And how does this person plan to "directly correct the thyroid problem" With meds? Again, meds are not a cure. Iodine is closer of a correction than thyroid meds because Iodine is a natural substance the body needs. I refer the reader to Nathan Hatch re. thyroid cancer (He had days where he dosed in the hundreds of mg's of Iodine, and he's still here alive and kicking and thriving in fact). That's way more than 1mg.

When you take thyroid meds in an attempt to "cure" the problem, it's like taking end-stage steroids like testosterone, estrogen, etc, to try to fix problems you may have. I will grant you that thyroid meds can and DO make you feel better, but they rarely fix the root problems.

i realize this is an old post but I wanted to answer one point here about the thyroid meds simply being a “band aid”

my understanding is that they are nothing of the sort - that the thyroid meds are meant to increase a depressed metabolic rate in the most effective way possible - assuming of course that diet etc is in line to support a higher metabolic rate - because the higher metabolic itself is the curative factor - the thyroids meds increase and upregulate ALL the detoxification processes in the body - including, I assume, ones such as bromide detoxification.

this by itself would, I assume, have the downstream process of improving all the systems in the body - however I would imagine that the taking of the meds would probably massively increase the positive outcomes of iodine supplementation as well
 

LeeLemonoil

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This is the thread with references to the publications that speak of iodolipids and iodolactones (iodine saturates oleic acid to iodostearic acid for example)

No Researcher Knows So Much About Iodine And Human Evolution As The Italian Dr Sebastiano Venturi
Do you have a source for this claim?

I tried to find evidence that Iodine saturates PUFA, but I haven't seen that to be the case anywhere.
In addition, iodine is used to measure the degree of unsaturation of an oil, so if it converted the oil into a saturated fat, this would skew the results.

The closest thing I've been able to see is that PUFA + Iodine makes Iodohydrins.
hr
 

Amazoniac

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- Iodide modulates protein damage induced by the inflammation-associated heme enzyme myeloperoxidase
Abstract said:
Iodide ions (I−) are an essential dietary mineral, and crucial for mental and physical development, fertility and thyroid function. I− is also a high affinity substrate for the heme enzyme myeloperoxidase (MPO), which is involved in bacterial cell killing during the immune response, and also host tissue damage during inflammation. In the presence of H2O2 and Cl−, MPO generates the powerful oxidant hypochlorous acid (HOCl), with excessive formation of this species linked to multiple inflammatory diseases. In this study, we have examined the hypothesis that elevated levels of I− would decrease HOCl formation and thereby protein damage induced by a MPO/Cl−/H2O2 system, by acting as a competitive substrate. The presence of increasing I− concentrations (0.1–10 μM; i.e. within the range readily achievable by oral supplementation in humans), decreased damage to both model proteins and extracellular matrix components as assessed by gross structural changes (SDS-PAGE), antibody recognition of parent and modified protein epitopes (ELISA), and quantification of both parent amino acid loss (UPLC) and formation of the HOCl-biomarker 3-chlorotyrosine (LC-MS) (reduced by ca. 50% at 10 μM I−). Elevated levels of I− (>1 μM) also protected against functional changes as assessed by a decreased loss of adhesion (eg. 40% vs. <22% with >1 μM I−) of primary human coronary artery endothelial cells (HCAECs), to MPO-modified human plasma fibronectin. These data indicate that low micromolar concentrations of I−, which can be readily achieved in humans and are readily tolerated, may afford protection against cell and tissue damage induced by MPO.
If you mail me your damaged thyroid from having shoved down iodine, it's going to be returned.
 

Jam

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SOMO

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Thank you for finding this, hadn't seen it yet. Another key that may explain how (I−) may have halted the progression of my periodontal issues.

Anything that sterilizes the gums will improve periodontal disease. Xylitol is the single most effective substance for sterilizing the mouth. Listerine is a close second.

Listerine (the old kind with Methyl Salicylate) can reverse periodontal issues within a few days. The combination of Listeirne + Xylitol should be enough to disinfect the oral cavity and will have minor improvements on enamel strength.
 

Jam

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Anything that sterilizes the gums will improve periodontal disease. Xylitol is the single most effective substance for sterilizing the mouth. Listerine is a close second.

Listerine (the old kind with Methyl Salicylate) can reverse periodontal issues within a few days. The combination of Listeirne + Xylitol should be enough to disinfect the oral cavity and will have minor improvements on enamel strength.

It can reverse gingivitis, and maybe "stage I" periodontitis, but once the pockets are deep enough, the cure has to come from the inside. Nothing can reach those dark recesses from the outside, bar gum surgery (no thanks). For me, iodine worked from the inside out. In other words, I ingested it, rather than using it as a mouth wash, which is fairly useless for advanced periodontal disease.
 
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@burtlancast Still a fan boy for Iodine/Iodide?
Title of thread is hilarious, yes mega-dosing anything is bad.
I like Lugol's with Selenium, magnesium and Sodium Ascorbate :): plus occasional Zinc Acetate.
 

burtlancast

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It can reverse gingivitis, and maybe "stage I" periodontitis, but once the pockets are deep enough, the cure has to come from the inside. Nothing can reach those dark recesses from the outside, bar gum surgery (no thanks).

There's too the Bob Beck magnetizer; it certainly can reach them.
 

burtlancast

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@burtlancast Still a fan boy for Iodine/Iodide?
Title of thread is hilarious, yes mega-dosing anything is bad.
I like Lugol's with Selenium, magnesium and Sodium Ascorbate :): plus occasional Zinc Acetate.

Iodine's a life-savior. Everything you wrote is perfect for taking iodine with.

And excuse my french counterpart: he's still antagonizing me after i decided to end prematurely our engagement.
 
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Iodine's a life-savior. Everything you wrote is perfect for taking iodine with.

And excuse my french counterpart: he's still antagonizing me after i decided to end prematurely our engagement.
Cheers @burtlancast Yep, I'm gonna keep up the Iodine/Iodide +cofactors as I've only had positives from doing so.
 

Amazoniac

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- Effects of taurine on brain development and learning ability in filial mice fed with high iodine (in Chinese and only abstract available)

Abstract said:
Objective: To observe the effects of taurine on brain development and learning ability in filial mice fed with high iodine.

Methods: Mice were divided into three groups, the first one fed with adequate dose of iodine, the second with high-dose iodine, and the third with high-dose iodine plus 0.6% taurine. All the male and female mice were mated three months after treatment. Relevant biochemical indicators in the brain tissues and their memory and learning ability were measured for their offsprings with 30 days old in the three groups.

Results: Brain contents of protein and DNA reduced in the high-dose iodine group, and there was no significant difference in them between groups with taurine and adequate-dose iodine 30 days after their birth. Activity of acetylcholine esterase (ACHE) increased and content of acetylcholine decreased in the hippocampus of filial mice at age of 30 days with high-dose iodine. Content of acetylcholine increased in the filial mice with high-dose iodine plus taurine than that with adequate-dose iodine, but there was no statistically significant difference in ACHE between them.

Conclusion: Taurine could antagonize disturbance of brain development in filial mice caused by high-dose iodine.

Possibly related:
- Iodolactones and iodoaldehydes--mediators of iodine in thyroid autoregulation
- Direct reaction of taurine with malondialdehyde: evidence for taurine as a scavenger of reactive carbonyl species
- N-chlorotaurine, a natural antiseptic with outstanding tolerability
 

Amazoniac

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- Molecular Iodine Has Extrathyroidal Effects as an Antioxidant, Differentiator, and Immunomodulator

Abstract said:
Most investigations of iodine metabolism in humans and animals have focused on its role in thyroid function. However, considerable evidence indicates that iodine could also be implicated in the physiopathology of other organs. We review the literature that shows that molecular iodine (I2) exerts multiple and complex actions on the organs that capture it, not including its effects as part of thyroid hormones. This chemical form of iodine is internalized by a facilitated diffusion system that is evolutionary conserved, and its effects appear to be mediated by a variety of mechanisms and pathways. As an oxidized component, it directly neutralizes free radicals, induces the expression of type II antioxidant enzymes, or inactivates proinflammatory pathways. In neoplastic cells, I2 generates iodolipids with nuclear actions that include the activation of apoptotic pathways and the inhibition of markers related to stem cell maintenance, chemoresistance, and survival. Recently, I2 has been postulated as an immune modulator that depending on the cellular context, can function as an inhibitor or activator of immune responses. We propose that the intake of molecular iodine is increased in adults to at least 1 mg/day in specific pathologies to obtain the potential extrathyroid benefits described in this review.
 

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