Ray Peat On Iodine

[RisingSun]

The pineal gland isn't protected by the blood brain barrier: it will accumulate halides like fluoride and bromide, as well as heavy metals like mercury. It's actually the organ who accumulates the most fluoride. And thus won't be able to secrete melatonin as it should.

Iodine detoxifies the pineal gland and allows it to secrete normally melatonin. It will inactivate the mercury and replace the fluoride and bromide.

Not that it's a spot effect either.

Like people saying take magnesium before sleep...

What matters is how much iodine or magnesium has accumulated in your body to reach adequate levels and exert its effects.

Taking it morning or before bed doesn't make a difference on how well you'll sleep, save the placebo effect

 

[RisingSun]

Let's suppose that is the mechanism behind it. Do you think it really decalcifies/detoxes my pineal gland and returns melatonin production to normal in matter of minutes ? Because that is how fast i feel the effects.

Unless you tell us how much you take and how you take it, one can only guess it's placebo

 

[Cirion]

Melatonin is a cortisol antagonist, prevents lipid peroxidation (protects from PUFA), and is an aromatase inhibitor. Urinary output of melatonin inversely correlates with BMI in adults, with a very high statistical significance. Melatonin improves daytime sleepiness, meaning it makes you more alert during the day, this takes a couple weeks to kick in if you are supplementing. Melatonin stimulates growth hormone, growth hormone increases slow wave (deep) sleep... GABA also stimulates growth hormone, seems pretty clear to me that GABA and Melatonin must play well together... Melatonin is the master regulator of the circadian rhythm, it flips the switch on for the parasympathetic nervous system, it is not going to guarantee you good sleep but it will line up your body for good sleep if your body has all the other things it needs for good sleep. Generally it can be said that Melatonin lowers stress. I think Nathan and RP are in the dark (haha) when it comes to most of what they have to say on Melatonin.

At most, melatonin is maybe useful when you are going to bed/sleeping. Other than that, it's not a helpful hormone. Otherwise, people would be healthier in winter not worse off. We are designed to have powerful, healthy light during our waking hours which means little to no melatonin at those times. We live in an artificial winter most of the time though (being indoors, without true full spectrum lighting from the sun) which means melatonin is going to be too high in most people...

My takeaway is that melatonin is probably OK and maybe even healthy in the correct amount, but most people have way too much of it due to living in bad environments (cold, cloudy) or too much artificial lighting at the expense of real full spectrum (sun) lighting.

 

[Mauritio]

Unless you tell us how much you take and how you take it, one can only guess it's placebo

It am pretty sure it is not placebo , because the antihistamines dont work anymore and i expected them to work because they always did.
I took 1-2 drops of lugols iodine orally. Dosnt work everytime though. I am not sure if it ever worked on consecutive days...

 

[baccheion]

It am pretty sure it is not placebo , because the antihistamines dont work anymore and i expected them to work because they always did.
I took 1-2 drops of lugols iodine orally. Dosnt work everytime though. I am not sure if it ever worked on consecutive days...

Do you also take companion nutrients (200 mcg L-selenomethionine, ATP cofactors, magnesium, etc)? If so, try applying those drops to the scrotum. What effects do you experience? What concentration of Lugol's? 2%? 5%? Something else?

 

[Mauritio]

It was a pretty intense experience trying iodine on scrotum. It raises test a lot I guess . I had really strong bodily symptoms .I think I commented about it on this thread. I was getting a bit out of it at some point so I stopped. Possibly aromatizing going on. So I should try it again combing iodine on balls with an aromatase inhibitor like androsterone.
Yes I take / took most of these . Selenium not so much anymore.

 

[baccheion]

It was a pretty intense experience trying iodine on scrotum. It raises test a lot I guess . I had really strong bodily symptoms .I think I commented about it on this thread. I was getting a bit out of it at some point so I stopped. Possibly aromatizing going on. So I should try it again combing iodine on balls with an aromatase inhibitor like androsterone.
Yes I take / took most of these . Selenium not so much anymore.

What strength of Lugol's? How much did you apply to the scrotum? Selenium is said to be a core requirement when taking larger amounts of iodine.

 

[Mauritio]

What strength of Lugol's? How much did you apply to the scrotum? Selenium is said to be a core requirement when taking larger amounts of iodine.

I started with several drops and went down to 1 or 2 drops, still had an effect. 5 % solution. I am pretty sure I took enough selenium at that time, maybe not now.

 

[Mauritio]

@Mauritio @burtlancast

I have always been a bit skeptical about that pineal gland decalcification with iodine but who knows...

As mauritio says, the effects are inmediate and on the very first dose. There's no time for detozifying or uncalcifying things so quickly I guess???

But regarding your question, mauritio... I think iodine does much more things than activating the thyroid and detoxing halides. That's why you see differences with thyroid hormones.

My totally broscience metaphoric description is that it somehow repolarizes cell membranes, or improves intercellular communication, or some kind of systemic effect like that. It reminds me a bit of sone of the procaine effects. It generates a really good systemic effect of wellbeing, more powerful than NDT and T3 in my experience.

On the other side, I think iodine can more easily create a stress reaction than NDT.

Iodine seems to be a trickster just cant get my head around this one. People hate or love it. I havent decided yet , but took 12mg iodine for about a year and energy levels were pretty good back then...
There seems to be some stuff like vitamin c and iodine thats not peaty but I am still not ready to give up on.

 

[Mauritio]

Maybe this might be a explanation why iodine helped sleep so fast...
Could it have to do with reduced endotoxin and thus reduced serotonin ?

RP:
“Endotoxin, produced by bacteria, mainly in the intestine, disrupts energy production, and promotes maladaptive inflammation. The wide spectrum of benefit that iodide has, especially in diseases with an inflammatory component, suggests first that it protects tissue by blocking free radical damage, but it also suggests the possibility that it might specifically protect against endotoxin.”

I know iodide is iodine with metal-atom , but could it still have iodines function?

 

[Frankdee20]

At most, melatonin is maybe useful when you are going to bed/sleeping. Other than that, it's not a helpful hormone. Otherwise, people would be healthier in winter not worse off. We are designed to have powerful, healthy light during our waking hours which means little to no melatonin at those times. We live in an artificial winter most of the time though (being indoors, without true full spectrum lighting from the sun) which means melatonin is going to be too high in most people...

My takeaway is that melatonin is probably OK and maybe even healthy in the correct amount, but most people have way too much of it due to living in bad environments (cold, cloudy) or too much artificial lighting at the expense of real full spectrum (sun) lighting.

Just wanted to ask a question, I’m thinking of buying the Best Rest Formula from Pure encapsulation. It’s mostly GABA friendly herbs, but 1 mg of Melatonin. I’m 39, and live in NYC with dreadful winters, and no sun for weeks. Is this okay ?

 

[Makrosky]

Maybe this might be a explanation why iodine helped sleep so fast...
Could it have to do with reduced endotoxin and thus reduced serotonin ?

RP:
“Endotoxin, produced by bacteria, mainly in the intestine, disrupts energy production, and promotes maladaptive inflammation. The wide spectrum of benefit that iodide has, especially in diseases with an inflammatory component, suggests first that it protects tissue by blocking free radical damage, but it also suggests the possibility that it might specifically protect against endotoxin.”

I know iodide is iodine with metal-atom , but could it still have iodines function?

Hey Mauritio, where did you get that quote from??

And btw OF COURSE iodine is beneficial against endotoxin, it kills no less than bacteria, viruses, fungus and mold.

 

[Makrosky]

Btw @Mauritio what is your experience with differences applying iodine topically vs taking it orally? I don't mean on the scrotum for androgenesis. Just topical like in arms or legs.

My limited experience with topical iodine suggests that it is equally effective (maybe not the germicidal effects) with a lot less detox effects.

Yours???

 

[RisingSun]

Just wanted to ask a question, I’m thinking of buying the Best Rest Formula from Pure encapsulation. It’s mostly GABA friendly herbs, but 1 mg of Melatonin. I’m 39, and live in NYC with dreadful winters, and no sun for weeks. Is this okay ?

I would strongly recommend against melatonin supplementation, especially if you are a man.

Among many other anecdotes: Help! Melatonin Induced Sexual Dysfunction And More

 

[Mauritio]

Hey Mauritio, where did you get that quote from??

And btw OF COURSE iodine is beneficial against endotoxin, it kills no less than bacteria, viruses, fungus and mold.

This :
Ray Peat, PhD on Endotoxin – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Yeah you read that everywhere , but i haven't seen an actual study on Iodine and LPS...

 

[Mauritio]

Btw @Mauritio what is your experience with differences applying iodine topically vs taking it orally? I don't mean on the scrotum for androgenesis. Just topical like in arms or legs.

My limited experience with topical iodine suggests that it is equally effective (maybe not the germicidal effects) with a lot less detox effects.

Yours???

It feels less quick but similar for me , which is expected since it goes slower into the blood stream . For a quick "knock-out" in the evening I'll take it orally .

Also something I wanted to mention that I just got awareness of yesterday is, that taking selenium (Brazil nuts) ALWAYS made my hair softer. And this is the first thing I notice when I lower Serotonin somehow. So Iodine and selenium might be beneficial together against LPS /serotonin ?!

EDIT:
I found an interesting study on LPS and selenium :
Selenium does take part in protection from LPS.-damage at least partially . And it also reduces Nitric Oxide (NO) ,which should be a biggie for all peaters.

Treatment with Se (10(-6) M) markedly inhibited endotoxin (0.1 microg ml(-1))-induced NO production in J774A.1 cells. Se induced an increased activity of GSH-Px in cells after 24 h of incubation, suggesting that the preventive effect of Se on NO production in endotoxemia is due to the induction of Se-GSH-Px activity. However, Se did not affect endotoxin-induced cytotoxicity in J774A.1 cells. These findings suggested that the oxidative stress caused by endotoxin may be due, at least in part, to changes in Se regulation during endotoxemia.

Roles of selenium in endotoxin-induced lipid peroxidation in the rats liver and in nitric oxide production in J774A.1 cells. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Frankdee20]

I would strongly recommend against melatonin supplementation, especially if you are a man.

Among many other anecdotes: Help! Melatonin Induced Sexual Dysfunction And More

Figured, men should not take it

 

[Makrosky]

It feels less quick but similar for me , which is expected since it goes slower into the blood stream . For a quick "knock-out" in the evening I'll take it orally .

Also something I wanted to mention that I just got awareness of yesterday is, that taking selenium (Brazil nuts) ALWAYS made my hair softer. And this is the first thing I notice when I lower Serotonin somehow. So Iodine and selenium might be beneficial together against LPS /serotonin ?!

EDIT:
I found an interesting study on LPS and selenium :
Selenium does take part in protection from LPS.-damage at least partially . And it also reduces Nitric Oxide (NO) ,which should be a biggie for all peaters.

Treatment with Se (10(-6) M) markedly inhibited endotoxin (0.1 microg ml(-1))-induced NO production in J774A.1 cells. Se induced an increased activity of GSH-Px in cells after 24 h of incubation, suggesting that the preventive effect of Se on NO production in endotoxemia is due to the induction of Se-GSH-Px activity. However, Se did not affect endotoxin-induced cytotoxicity in J774A.1 cells. These findings suggested that the oxidative stress caused by endotoxin may be due, at least in part, to changes in Se regulation during endotoxemia.

Roles of selenium in endotoxin-induced lipid peroxidation in the rats liver and in nitric oxide production in J774A.1 cells. - PubMed - NCBI

Man, you should NEVER trust brazilian nuts for their selenium content while using iodine. I have said it many times in the forum already : 1) you don't know how much iodine there is in them. It varies a lot. 2) you don't know how much of their selenium you are going to absorv 3) for the one that you absorv, how much of it will exert the protective actions against iodine supp. 4) almost all (if not all) of iodine literate MD's and ND's recommend l-selenomethionine. There must be a reason for it.

The consequences of not doing so are, among others, create an autoimmune thyroiditis. Don't play with fire.

And now, this is purely speculative but I think the studies that showed diminished thyroid function over time when dosing iodine it is because they were not using selenium.

 

[Mauritio]

Man, you should NEVER trust brazilian nuts for their selenium content while using iodine. I have said it many times in the forum already : 1) you don't know how much iodine there is in them. It varies a lot. 2) you don't know how much of their selenium you are going to absorv 3) for the one that you absorv, how much of it will exert the protective actions against iodine supp. 4) almost all (if not all) of iodine literate MD's and ND's recommend l-selenomethionine. There must be a reason for it.

The consequences of not doing so are, among others, create an autoimmune thyroiditis. Don't play with fire.

And now, this is purely speculative but I think the studies that showed diminished thyroid function over time when dosing iodine it is because they were not using selenium.

I find it pleasing to take less supplements so it is good for me if I can get some selenium from food. I am pretty sure there is at least a decent amount of selenium in them otherwise I wouldn't notice effects like on my hair. I am also consuming seafood ever now and then which also has a quite high selenium content as far as I remember.
My iodine supplementation is pretty low anyway like one drop of 5 percent lugols at max per day. I don't think there is a risk for thyroiditis under this circumstances , do you?

 

[Makrosky]

I find it pleasing to take less supplements so it is good for me if I can get some selenium from food. I am pretty sure there is at least a decent amount of selenium in them otherwise I wouldn't notice effects like on my hair. I am also consuming seafood ever now and then which also has a quite high selenium content as far as I remember.
My iodine supplementation is pretty low anyway like one drop of 5 percent lugols at max per day. I don't think there is a risk for thyroiditis under this circumstances , do you?

I get you, it is a pain in the **** to take so many pills but I feel I have to, at least, let people know about this. Maybe check thyroid antibodies every 6months or a year. It is not a expensive test IIRC.