Dangers Of Iodized Salt; Normal Use Rapidly Induces Iodine Toxicity

burtlancast

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burtlan, iodine is already fortified (they're not neglecting it)

Yes it's neglected.
Check how many modern countries report iodine insufficiency: it's everywhere. They've made sure to forbid direct sales of Lugol in pharmacies (criminals) so people cannot correct their deficiency.

Salt, once opened, loses it's added iodine content by evaporation after a few months. Plus most people cut on their salt intake.


and if you imply that plenty is not harmful, they're missing an opportunity to improve the wealth of the population. How much would you propose instead?
?

The same amount ingested by Japanese over their lifetime for hundreds/thousands of years, as explained by Dr Guy Abraham: 12 mg/day (2 Lugol drops), which achieves steady state sufficiency for all organs
 

Amazoniac

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Yes it's neglected.
Check how many modern countries report iodine insufficiency: it's everywhere. They've made sure to forbid direct sales of Lugol in pharmacies (criminals) so people cannot correct their deficiency.

Salt, once opened, loses it's added iodine content by evaporation after a few months. Plus most people cut on their salt intake.
How is it neglected if they're reconsidering it? In these fortification programs you can't assume the best case scenario.

Then what are those people urinating?
The same amount ingested by Japanese over their lifetime for hundreds/thousands of years, as explained by Dr Guy Abraham: 12 mg/day (2 Lugol drops), which achieves steady state sufficiency for all organs
I guess that's not enough for the reasons mentioned above, people are adapted to it from birth and get it from food (the implications are discussed in that link).
[Use of iodized salt and the risk of iodine overload].
Zahidi A, et al. Therapie. 1999 Sep-Oct.

They name the supposed amount added,400mcg per 5000mg NaCl
Yes, 80 mcg of iodine for every gram of table salt and what the rest of the diet provides (seafood, dairy, etc).
 
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Amazoniac

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I was surprised to find out that increasing intake to insane amounts reflects in milk, I didn't know it was possible but it is (a good sign for those of you that want to suggest that it's harmless), but it's concerning enough to motivate publications on the topic:

- Iodine nutrition and breast feeding (of course it's ng/ml or mcg/l)

⬑ [32] Iodine content of human milk and dietary iodine intake of Korean lactating mothers

For an idea of input and discharge of the toxin through this means, the average fetal consumption is 800 ml/d.

upload_2019-11-16_21-8-52.png
upload_2019-11-16_21-8-57.png


8.5+ mg of iodine per liter. Wtf? (kine, 2018)

"A high concentration of iodine in the mother is transmitted directly to her fetus through the placenta or in her milk. Newborns who were exposed to high level of iodine through the mother have been known to develop transient hypothyroidism, goiter or iododerma and in most serious cases, death has resulted (Postellon & Aronow, 1982; I’Allemand et al., 1983; Danziger et al., 1987; Pennington, 1990). Therefore, it is extremely important for the health of pregnant and lactating mothers and their infants that adequate intake level for iodine be established."​

- Iodine in Human Milk: A Systematic Review
 
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even a toddler uses Ultradose confidently with iodine!Such Protocol.
Maybe Planet Urth was once upon a time covered in very much Iodine!?
What can we know for real!
 

burtlancast

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"A high concentration of iodine in the mother is transmitted directly to her fetus through the placenta or in her milk. Newborns who were exposed to high level of iodine through the mother have been known to develop transient hypothyroidism, goiter or iododerma and in most serious cases, death has resulted (Postellon & Aronow, 1982; I’Allemand et al., 1983; Danziger et al., 1987; Pennington, 1990). Therefore, it is extremely important for the health of pregnant and lactating mothers and their infants that adequate intake level for iodine be established."​

- Iodine in Human Milk: A Systematic Review

Scaremongering.

Japanese mothers have been exposing their fetuses to very high iodine concentrations for thousands of years and they turned out just fine, if not with above average intelligence and health.
 

Amazoniac

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Scaremongering.
But isn't it harmless even at high doses? Otherwise what would be motivating the publications? An initial tendency of overfortification in these programs followed by reconsideration after odserving an increased incidence of complications to be driven by some industry that profits on making people sick in differents parts of the world is too much conspiracy for my liking.

Japanese mothers have been exposing their fetuses to very high iodine concentrations for thousands of years and they turned out just fine, if not with above average intelligence and health.
And we return to the idea of adaptation since birth and food-sourced iodine. We can't expect a smooth adaptation in a population that's already unwealthy.

It's a toxin like poison A, venom D, menakillone-4, 7 or more at once, millk, pootatoes (the shittiest food that westerners eat), seeyafood of any kind, cuckoonut products, coffeen, onions (out of variation, but they do make you cry), leaves (up until the meal), articles with a warm color (they're contaminated and the warning signs aren't deceiving), supplemental killcium, and the list keeps growing.
 
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burtlancast

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But isn't it harmless even at high doses? Otherwise what would be motivating the publications? An initial tendency of overfortification in these programs followed by reconsideration after odserving an increased incidence of complications to be driven by some industry that profits on making people sick in differents parts of the world is too much conspiracy for my liking.

The elephant in the room here is that medical authorities (idem Peat) refuse to read their own scientific literature proving many other organs than the thyroid actively accumulate iodine.

It's not scientifically disputable.

The daily dosage recommended of iodine has been measured just to avoid thyroid goiter due to iodine deficiency.

It hasn't bothered to research the needs of other organs.

For example, organs like the breasts, uterus and prostate accumulate iodine and develop cysts when deprived of it. Recent studies have shown 12 mg/day of iodine given to men with hyperplasic prostate will reduce the size of these enlargements.

Idem for breasts and uterus.
 

Amazoniac

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The elephant in the room here is that medical authorities (idem Peat) refuse to read their own scientific literature proving many other organs than the thyroid actively accumulate iodine.

It's not scientifically disputable.

The daily dosage recommended of iodine has been measured just to avoid thyroid goiter due to iodine deficiency.

It hasn't bothered to research the needs of other organs.

For example, organs like the breasts, uterus and prostate accumulate iodine and develop cysts when deprived of it. Recent studies have shown 12 mg/day of iodine given to men with hyperplasic prostate will reduce the size of these enlargements.

Idem for breasts and uterus.
A graph for intake and urinary excretion could be helpful, but I don't think that the body retains it well to be apparent when it starts to have enough of it. Optimal requirements are obviously not 12 mg/d, but can be much higher than what's currently recommended, such as close to 1 mg/d. If I come across something relevant, I'll let you know.
 
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Amazoniac

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The elephant in the room here is that medical authorities (idem Peat) refuse to read their own scientific literature proving many other organs than the thyroid actively accumulate iodine.

It's not scientifically disputable.

The daily dosage recommended of iodine has been measured just to avoid thyroid goiter due to iodine deficiency.

It hasn't bothered to research the needs of other organs.

For example, organs like the breasts, uterus and prostate accumulate iodine and develop cysts when deprived of it. Recent studies have shown 12 mg/day of iodine given to men with hyperplasic prostate will reduce the size of these enlargements.

Idem for breasts and uterus.
Cancer therapies that require high doses of a substance usually involve stress to work as expected. In spite of having value as pharmacological agent, we has here examples of members that wouldn't touch it again, at times from amounts that weren't obscene while being careful with a supportive program. How is it harmless? Why would someone (such as Raj) be making it up? It's probably motivated by experience.

Iodide is preferentially uptaken by the typhoid, therefore if it can't withstand and adapt (for being already stress'd), it will be limiting on how much you can get, otherwise repleting other tissues would require frying it.

I don't remember if this one was posted:

- Consequences of excess iodine

"The mechanism for the acute Wolff–Chaikoff effect is not completely understood, but is thought to be at least partially explained by the generation of several inhibitory substances (such as intrathyroidal iodolactones, iodoaldehydes and/or iodolipids) on thyroid peroxidase activity.7 Reduced intrathyroidal deiodinase activity as a result of the increased iodine load might also contribute to decreased synthesis of thyroid hormones."

"In most individuals, the decreased production of thyroid hormones is only transient and resumes after adaptation to the acute Wolff–Chaikoff effect.7 In rats, this adaptation is associated with a marked decrease in expression of the sodium–iodide symporter (NIS) that is present on the basolateral membrane of thyroid follicular cells.8 NIS is a 13-transmembrane glycoprotein that mediates the active transport of iodine from the circulation into the thyroid.9 The decrease in expression of the NIS occurs by 24 h after exposure to excess iodine and results in reduced intrathyroidal iodine concentrations. In turn, the reduced iodine levels lead to a decrease in levels of the iodinated substances that inhibit synthesis of thyroid hormones, which results in the resumption of normal production of thyroid hormone (Figure 1)."

"In individuals with dysregulation of the thyroid follicular cell, excess iodine exposure can induce thyroid dysfunction, which might be transient or permanent.7"

"Vulnerable patients with specific risk factors might have an increased risk of failing to adapt to the acute Wolff–Chaikoff effect.7 Susceptible patients include those with autoimmune thyroid disease; a previous history of surgery, 131I or antithyroid drug therapy for Graves disease; subacute thyroiditis; postpartum thyroiditis; type 2 amiodarone-induced thyrotoxicosis (AIT); hemithyroidectomy; IFNα therapy; and concomitant use of potential goitrogens, such as lithium. Failure to escape from the acute Wolff–Chaikoff effect might also be more likely during fetal development, a period when the hypothalamic–pituitary–thyroid axis is still immature, and during neonatal life."

"The underlying mechanism of iodine-induced hypothyroidism remains unclear, but could be attributable to failure to adapt to the acute Wolff–Chaikoff effect, probably because of a damaged thyroid as a result of previous pathological insults. Exposure to high concentrations of iodine might also decrease the release of thyroid hormone, as reported in several small studies that show mild decreases in serum levels of thyroid hormone and increases in the serum level of TSH to the upper limit of the normal range.1012 Administration of iodine to patients with severe hyperthyroidism or thyroid storm is efficacious, as it results in an acute decrease in the release of thyroid hormones.13"

"Iodine supplementation also affects other aspects of thyroid health. For example, high iodine intake seems to increase the prevalence of autoimmune thyroiditis in the Bio Breeding/Worcester rat model and in humans.26,27 The number of reported cases of thyroid cancer, particularly papillary thyroid cancer, has also increased following iodine supplementation in some studies, including a nearly 20-year study in northeastern China28 and a >50-year study in Denmark.29"

"The iodine-rich content of the Japanese diet is unique and demonstrates how chronic exposure to excess iodine could result in several adaptive mechanisms. A 2013 paper reported a case of delayed onset congenital hypothyroidism in an infant with a mutation in the gene that encodes dual oxidase (DUOX2), an enzyme known to be associated with transient congenital hypothyroidism, that was exacerbated by the infant’s mother ingesting large amounts of seaweed during pregnancy.41 Among Japanese schoolchildren (aged 6–12 years old), high UIC are associated with smaller thyroid glands than are found in children living in other iodine-sufficient areas.42 A comparison of individuals with negative thyroid antibody titres living in coastal regions versus noncoastal areas of Japan showed that people from areas in which iodine-rich seaweed is abundant have an increased prevalence of hypothyroidism (12.1% versus 2.3%).43 Finally, a small study in Japan found that consumption of seaweed was positively associated with an increased risk of papillary thyroid cancers in postmenopausal women (HR 1.71, 95% CI 1.01–2.90).44"

"Several cases of congenital hypothyroidism caused by ingestion of excess maternal iodine tablets during pregnancy have been reported.47 Similarly, hypothyroidism in neonates born to mothers who ingested excessive amounts of seaweed or seaweed soup during both pregnancy48 and lactation have been reported.49,50 Given the risks of potential iodine-induced thyroid dysfunction, the American Thyroid Association recommends against ingestion of an iodine or kelp daily supplement containing >500 μg iodine for all individuals, except for certain medical indications.51"​

- Iodine Supplementation: Usage “with a Grain of Salt”

- The Extrathyronine Actions of Iodine as Antioxidant, Apoptotic, and Differentiation Factor in Various Tissues


Regarding antagonists when obtained from foods that may prevent an excess, other than what was mentioned in the article by Theo and Dave, the following might be relevant, making table salt a good vehicle:
- How Much Sodium Is In The Diet? Is The RDA For Sodium Too High?

There was an article suggesting this effect from seaweed.
I wonder if the affinity for magnesium chloride that some of you have has something to do with it, could it be protective against this toxin? Marco Sircus is on the same boat: Lugol's solution and magnesium in the chloride form.
 
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burtlancast

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Iodide is preferentially uptaken by the typhoid, therefore if it can't withstand and adapt (for being already stress'd), it will be limiting on how much you can get, otherwise repleting other tissues would require frying it.

I see you're in rare lyric form: i would have submitted this for a quote, but don't want to overburden Charlie.
 

LukasWood

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in the case of excess iodien supplementation wich is often recommended, i often think back. Native cultures get and got around 70-150mcg of iodine. Turnover of the thyroid is around 70-100mcg. People never got that much iodine as nowadays, still they had higher metabolism and lower case of hypothyroism.. they had higher metabolims too. German soldiers in WW2 got rations of 4000-5000calories (before supply crisis)
 

burtlancast

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"The iodine-rich content of the Japanese diet is unique and demonstrates how chronic exposure to excess iodine could result in several adaptive mechanisms. A 2013 paper reported a case of delayed onset congenital hypothyroidism in an infant with a mutation in the gene that encodes dual oxidase (DUOX2), an enzyme known to be associated with transient congenital hypothyroidism, that was exacerbated by the infant’s mother ingesting large amounts of seaweed during pregnancy.41 Among Japanese schoolchildren (aged 6–12 years old), high UIC are associated with smaller thyroid glands than are found in children living in other iodine-sufficient areas.42 A comparison of individuals with negative thyroid antibody titres living in coastal regions versus noncoastal areas of Japan showed that people from areas in which iodine-rich seaweed is abundant have an increased prevalence of hypothyroidism (12.1% versus 2.3%).43 Finally, a small study in Japan found that consumption of seaweed was positively associated with an increased risk of papillary thyroid cancers in postmenopausal women (HR 1.71, 95% CI 1.01–2.90).44"

"Several cases of congenital hypothyroidism caused by ingestion of excess maternal iodine tablets during pregnancy have been reported.47 Similarly, hypothyroidism in neonates born to mothers who ingested excessive amounts of seaweed or seaweed soup during both pregnancy48 and lactation have been reported.49,50 Given the risks of potential iodine-induced thyroid dysfunction, the American Thyroid Association recommends against ingestion of an iodine or kelp daily supplement containing >500 μg iodine for all individuals, except for certain medical indications.51"​

They are picking isolated cases and over-blowing them: Japanese as a whole ingest between 10 and +100 times the recommended daily dose of iodine during all their life for generations.

National statistics for hypothyroidism, immune thyroiditis and thyroid cancers are below those of other industrialized countries.

And your paper fails to address the elephant in the room i mentioned, ie the fact other organs need and actively accumulate iodine, and develop cysts just like the thyroid when not enough iodine is present.​
 

Amazoniac

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I see you're in rare lyric form: i would have submitted this for a quote, but don't want to overburden Charlie.
It has been used in thyroid storm/fever:
- Iodine in typhoid fever
They are picking isolated cases and over-blowing them: Japanese as a whole ingest between 10 and +100 times the recommended daily dose of iodine during all their life for generations.

National statistics for hypothyroidism, immune thyroiditis and thyroid cancers are below those of other industrialized countries.

And your paper fails to address the elephant in the room i mentioned, ie the fact other organs need and actively accumulate iodine, and develop cysts just like the thyroid when not enough iodine is present.​
Yeah, but they're accustomed to it since birth. Therapeutic supplementation would be on someone that's trying to recover wealth (to explain seeking it) and the risk of complications increases.

If you don't believe this, open a poll with positive, neutral, and negative experience options, it will be answered by people that are likely in such position. You'll realize that negative ones occur more often than you suppose.

Our semi-god found a way around the limitation by shutting down the synthesis with external hormones and shoving iodine until the person turns into a cancer-free fountain.

It can be challenging to replete a person that's under stress without the protection of external thyroid hormones.

- Iodine-deficiency disorders

"Iodide is rapidly and nearly wholly absorbed (>90%) in the stomach and duodenum.[5] Iodate, widely used in iodisation of salt, is reduced in the gut and absorbed as iodide. Organically bound iodine is typically digested and the released iodide absorbed, but about 75% of an oral dose of the thyroid hormone thyroxine is absorbed intact. Thyroid clearance of circulating iodine varies with iodine intake: in situations with adequate iodine supply, 10% or less of absorbed iodine is taken up by the thyroid. In chronic iodine deficiency, this percentage can exceed 80%.[10]"

"The body of a healthy adult contains 15–20 mg of iodine, of which 70–80% is in the thyroid. In chronic iodine deficiency, the iodine content of the thyroid might fall to less than 20 μg. In iodine-sufficient areas, the adult thyroid traps about 60 μg of iodine per day to balance losses and maintain synthesis of thyroid hormone."​

Uganda is one of the few countries in their map that have it in excess and France tends not to be intoxicated enough. Is we biased?

If a deficient person starts to get 220 mcg a day, 200 mcg are apsorpeq, and the thyroid could be holding 160 mcg or more of this a day. When discounting the normal use, we're left with 100 mcg for repletion (but the person has probably decreased the metabolism, so there will be more for this purpose). If an average gland contains 13 mg or so, in 130 days you may have it repleted.. if conditions cooperate:

"More than 90% of ingested iodine is ultimately excreted in the urine. Iodine deficiency is the main cause of endemic goitre, but other dietary substances (termed goitrogens) that interfere with thyroid metabolism can aggravate the effect (table 1).[22] Most goitrogens do not have a major clinical effect unless there is coexisting iodine deficiency."

upload_2019-11-19_6-56-59.png

I wonder how well depleted persons can remain if they're given thyroid hormones with the minimum iodine possible in the diet, this must've been tried. I remember David suggesting that problems arise, but I'm not sure if it's correct.
 
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burtlancast

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Yeah, but they're accustomed to it since birth.

Interesting.

So, according to you, excess iodine is bad, unless one's accustomed to it since birth in which case it's beneficial.

Lamarck was right after all.
 

Amazoniac

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Interesting.

So, according to you, excess iodine is bad, unless one's accustomed to it since birth in which case it's beneficial.

Lamarck was right after all.
If a fetus is concepted in a guru that ingests plenty of iodine, it will be primed for this kind of environment, reinforced through breast milch with an increased content and maintained (for example) with seaweed consumption.

It's not that a person can't adapt to greater intakes all of the sudden, but the risk of complications increases if he or she is under trouble compared to the other scenario. High intakes are usually on coastal regions, so I guess seafood consumption with the antitoxins (selenium, copper, manganese, zinc, etc) must also be high and provide these in an usable form; different than having it isolated.

What can be argued is that in case you want to supply large amounts of the toxin to different tissues that aren't as efficient as the typhoid in capturing it, you'd need high doses. However once it has enough of it, the excess should be reaching the others in significant amounts, although perhaps not enough for therapeutic effects when it's used more like a medication.
 
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Why give her potassium iodide if she wants the D? She probably has enough of the other anyway.

Fair point.

The health of publications available from regions with high intake is a concerning sign.

Epidemiological publications = toilet paper.

People that are exposed to it from food since birth are in a different position than a guru supplementing isolated in a susceptible state. The transition from milch to a diet that's rich in algen occurred at a moment where metabolism was still high and a proper adaptation was likely to be successful, allowing the typhoid to shrink and desensitize.

Here's an example of "a guru supplementing isolated" and seemingly not experiencing any more difficulties than "[p]eople that are exposed to it from food since birth." Not just any guru, but Your Lord and Savior Travis, and not just any dose but 5 million micrograms.

"I've taken five grams of potassium iodide just fine, which is 25% potassium (K⁺) by mass. Studies indicate that 20 grams is fine, and hyperkalemia doesn't set-in until 30. Perhaps surprisingly to some, there is no toxicity from the iodide ion (I⁻) at these concentrations (Potassium (cream Of Tartar) Is No Joke! Be Careful!)."

Neither did his thyroid explode from the 3750mg iodide, nor did his heart stop from the 1250mg potassium.
 

Amazoniac

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Epidemiological publications = toilet paper.
It's not a matter of quality, something has to explain the interest.

Here's an example of "a guru supplementing isolated" and seemingly not experiencing any more difficulties than "[p]eople that are exposed to it from food since birth." Not just any guru, but Your Lord and Savior Travis, and not just any dose but 5 million micrograms.

"I've taken five grams of potassium iodide just fine, which is 25% potassium (K⁺) by mass. Studies indicate that 20 grams is fine, and hyperkalemia doesn't set-in until 30. Perhaps surprisingly to some, there is no toxicity from the iodide ion (I⁻) at these concentrations (Potassium (cream Of Tartar) Is No Joke! Be Careful!)."

Neither did his thyroid explode from the 3750mg iodide, nor did his heart stop from the 1250mg potassium.
Yeah, 'guru' in prolactinese can mean 'shaman', but also 'person'.

We can't base what's safe for humans on someone that's not. The human equivalent dose should be around 40 mg and he could've dealt with transient disturbances from it, his following posts after reporting its use may show odd activity. Every now and then someone appears claiming that there no such thing as overdosing a certain compound or the dose is too high to deserve consideration, however you find them later struggling during the period that it takes to correct the mess.

There was a case in burtlan's first publication who used 36 g, but these are desperate measures, and if you think that they're safe, you can gather a few volunteers to try and tell us how it went.. while hospitalized.
 
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Someone in burtlan's first publication used 36 g, but these are desperate measures and if you think that they're safe, you can try them and tell us how it went.. while hospitalized.

The relative safety of gram doses, which I have never advocated for or been interested in taking, makes me feel quite safe with milligram doses. I've dosed as high as 20 drops (125mg) once per week in 2017, and, while it raised temperatures and helped me focus, I struggled to stop talking once I started and exhibited less patience. I took breaks in between and prefer 1 or 2 drops a few times per week now, especially during the cold months. My 100ml Lugols 5% solution is over half empty and I've drunk all save a portion which was applied to my scalp to successfully regrow hair on a 2-3 cm2 bald spot. The last time I was a patient in a hospital was salmonella typhi (gram negative bacterium :/ ) poisoning 13 years ago.
 

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