Mega Dosing Iodine = Bad, Destroys Thyroid Tissue Permanently

[burtlancast]

Nice catch..

 

[Jam]

Nice catch..

Nothing that wasn't already known, but a good, well-made summary nonetheless.

 

[TreasureVibe]

I took 450 mcg of iodine for 2 days from Norwegian kelp and I first felt great but then the day after had a headache sweating on the forehead and much less cognitive functioning. I also had rheumatic pain in my right arm so I stopped the iodine..

 

[cjm]

@burtlancast I'm surprised this didn't get more of a mention in the thread, you posted it back on the first or second page, Abraham does not mince his words:

"Medical iodophobia is the unwarranted fear of using and recommending inorganic, non-radioactive iodine/iodide within the range known from the collective experience of three generations of clinicians to be the safest and most effective amounts for treating symptoms and signs of iodine/iodide deficiency (12.5-37.5 mg). The range of daily intake of this essential nutrient is hereafter referred to as orthoiodosupplementation because it is the range of iodine/iodide intake required in order to achieve whole body sufficiency for this element based on a recently developed iodine/iodide loading test. (See Section VII for more details on the loading test.) Medicoiodophobes suffer from: A) a split personality which results in iodophobia within the orthoiodosupplementation range previously used safely and successfully in medical practice and iodophylia for megadoses of iodide (up to 12 gm/day); B) double standards, which render those physicians intolerant to the minor side effects of the inorganic forms and extremely tolerant to the severe side effects of the radioactive and organic forms; C) amnesia pertaining to the inorganic, non-radioactive forms when making therapeutic decisions; D) confusion, attributing the severe side effects of organic iodine-containing drugs to inorganic iodine/iodide; and E) an altered state of consciousness, allowing doublethink, doublespeak, and contradictory logic to become acceptable. Although the factors involved in medical iodophobia are still unknown, decreased cognition seems involved. Since low iodine intake is associated with intellectual impairment, deficiency of this essential element cannot be ruled out, and if present, would create a self-perpetuating phenomenon. Needless to say, medical iodophobia is contagious and can be transmitted to patients and other physicians (iatrogenic iodophobia). Medical iodophobia will remain a syndrome until the causes are discovered and effective therapy implemented. It is very likely however, that medical iodophobia will eventually be classified as an iodine-deficiency disease."

The Safe and Effective Implementation of Orthoiodosupplementation In Medical Practice, Guy. E. Abraham M.D.

 

[burtlancast]

Lol,
Yes, Abraham doesn't mince his words.
The arguments he makes are rock solid i think, and i believe he was quite upset when he stumbled on the truth about the "iodine being poisonous"racket.

Also extremely revealing that even the corrupt WHO admits there's a worldwide whopping 70% iodine deficiency in the world.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Lol,
Yes, Abraham doesn't mince his words.
The arguments he makes are rock solid i think, and i believe he was quite upset when he stumbled on the truth about the "iodine being poisonous"racket.

Also quite revealing that even the corrupt WHO admits there's a worldwide whopping 70% iodine deficiency in the world.

Why does Norwegian kelp gives me rheumatic pain in my right arm? I had juvenile onset rheumatic arthritis until the age of 12 since age 4.

 

[cjm]

Q: Is the Iodine Test Kit (from Dr. Abraham) valid and does it reveal thyroid deficiency?

RP: “Guy Abraham and some of his followers claim that an iodine deficiency can be shown by the quick disappearance of a spot of iodine painted on the skin. The skin test of iodine deficiency is completely unscientific. Iodine is converted to colorless iodide by reductants, including vitamin C, glutathione, and thiosulphate. “G. Abraham’s Iodine Test Kit contains iodine overdose pills. The test is completely irrational. It implies that the body should be saturated with iodine.”


So, not only does Ray misrepresent the national Japanese thyroid disease statistics, he even goes to the length of attributing to Abraham a test that he never devised and in fact always denounced.

As I understand it, that IS the implication.

The Historical Background of the Iodine Project, Guy. E. Abraham M.D.

"Thyroidologists suffer from selective iodophobia for the inorganic non-radioactive forms of iodine combined with paradoxical iodophylia for radioactive iodide and the toxic organic iodine containing drugs. As an example, some thyroidologists recommend radioiodide ablation of the thyroid gland in order to allow the reintroduction of the organic iodine containing drug amiodarone in patients with a prior history of amiodarone-induced thyrotoxicosis (8). Amiodarone is a toxic form of sustained release iodine. The author has previously discussed the interesting observation that this antiarrhythmic drug becomes effective when the body has accumulated approximately 1.5 gm of iodine (8). This is exactly the amount of iodine retained by the human body when iodine sufficiency is achieved following orthoiodosupplementation (7). Whole body sufficiency for inorganic non-radioactive iodine/iodide results in optimal cardiac functions. Inorganic non-radioactive iodine was never tested in clinical conditions for which physicians prescribe amiodarone. However, inorganic iodide is blamed for the severe side effects of this drug. Unbelievable, but true!!"

EDIT: I see your reply about how Abraham did measure iodine status, with 24 hour urine.

EDIT 2:

Ray Peat thinks it is silly to "saturate the body" with Iodine so there is definitely a fundamental disagreement there with Brown, Abraham. If you read Brown's book you'll note that a lot of the patient success stories he brings up... nearly all of his patients who come to him complaining of hypothyroid symptoms, just about all of them were under 90% saturation and just about all of them felt better boosting it up. Generally it seems (based upon my observations reading his book so far) that you can get very crippling hypothyroid symptoms while being as high as 50-60% saturation based upon patients he saw so certainly, even 50% saturation is definitely not enough.

 

[cjm]

High dose iodide (6g/d!!) for a fungal infection in a man after caring for a stray cat, study attached:

"The patient, a 29-year-old man, was referred to William Beaumont Army Medical Center, El Paso, Texas, for evaluation of a nonhealing ulcer on the dorsum of his left thumb associated with tender nodules extending along the ventral forearm, arm, and axilla of one month's duration. The patient noted a "small wart" on the dorsum of the left thumb overlying the interphalangeal joint about two months before admission that subsequently ulcerated. Painful nodules developed in a linear pattern along his forearm, arm, and axilla. He had no constitutional symptoms associated with this ulcer. Before admission, he was seen on several occasions by his primary care physician and treated for an infectious process with successive courses of penicillin, erythromycin, and tetracycline antibiotics."

"The first line of therapy for fixed cutaneous and lymphocutaneous cases is an oral saturated solution of potassium iodide (SSKI). The dose is initiated at 15 drops a day given three times a day. It is gradually increased to a maximum of 120 drops a day as tolerated. Possible adverse reactions include nausea, vomiting, parotid gland swelling, acneiform rash, coryza, and sneezing."

Edit: fun fact from the label for Avondale's SSKI (image above)... doesn't list the indications but the dosage for adults is between 900mg and 2400mg.

"Dosage and Administration
Adults
0.3 ml (300 mg) or 0.6 ml (600 mg) diluted in one glassful of water, fruit juice or milk 3 to 4 times daily. To minimize gastric irritation, take with food or milk.
This medication should be used no longer than necessary to produce the desired effect."

 

[burtlancast]

High dose iodide (6g/d!!) for a fungal infection in a man after caring for a stray cat, study attached:

I've posted this already, but i'm going to say it again: until de 70's, KI solution was used as an effective asthma treatment, at dosages between 5gr and 36 gr per day !

 

[cjm]

I've posted this already, but i'm going to say it again: until de 70's, KI solution was used as an effective asthma treatment, at dosages between 5gr and 36 gr per day !

Glad you did, I missed it the first time.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Comprehensive Handbook of Iodine: Nutritional, Biochemical, Pathological and Therapeutic Aspects (978-0-12-374135-6)

↳ Chapter 82 - Are there Side Effects when Using Supraphysiologic Levels of Iodine in Treatment Regimens?

 

[cjm]

↳ Chapter 82 - Are there Side Effects when Using Supraphysiologic Levels of Iodine in Treatment Regimens?

Sci-Hub | Are there Side Effects when Using Supraphysiologic Levels of Iodine in Treatment Regimens? Comprehensive Handbook of Iodine, 801–810 | 10.1016/b978-0-12-374135-6.00082-0

"Summary Points

* Individuals who consume iodine at levels above the recommended UL (1.1mg/day) should do so under the care of a physician and have their thyroid status monitored periodically.
* The pharmacological and toxicological profiles of orally administered iodide and I2 are distinct; iodide is more thyrotoxic than I2.
* Several model systems support an antiproliferative role for I2 but not iodide.
* Daily I2 treatment of women at doses up to 5½ times the UL is not associated with an increase in overt thyroid disease.
* Elevated rates of subclinical hypothyroidism are likely in iodine-naive women treated with I2 at levels higher than the recommended UL.
* The incidence of subclinical thyroid conditions in iodine-adapted patients increases with dose above 3mg/ day of I2.
* Two double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled studies indicate a beneficial effect of I2 in patients with severe mastalgia dosed daily at levels that are at least three times above the UL."

 

[Makrosky]

Why does Norwegian kelp gives me rheumatic pain in my right arm? I had juvenile onset rheumatic arthritis until the age of 12 since age 4.

In my experience Kelp is always problematic. Drop that garbage and get some real pure iodine in the form of Lugol or KI.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Molecular Iodine Has Extrathyroidal Effects as an Antioxidant, Differentiator, and Immunomodulator

↳ [48] Protective Effect of Moderated Dose of Iodine in Pancreatic Alterations during Hypothyroidism

Pancreatitis and insulitis are known causes of type 2 diabetes mellitus, and recently it has been shown that hypothyroidism can exacerbate these alterations. Molecular iodine (I2) exerts antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and anti-dyslipidemia effects in diverse tissues. The objective of this study was to evaluate the effect of the oral supplement of this halogen in the induction of prediabetic status in a model of pharmacological hypothyroidism.

Adult virgin rabbits of the Chinchilla breed were divided into control (n = 6) and hypothyroid (methimazole, MMI n = 6, 10 mg/kg in drinking water) groups, supplemented with moderate (MMI + I2 0.2 mg/kg; n= 6) and high dose of I2 (MMI + I2 2 mg/kg, n= 6).

The results showed that hypothyroidism (1 month) was accompanied by circulating elevations of total cholesterol, HDL, LDL (enzymatic methods) and sCD163 (Western blot). It also promoted pancreatitis (H & E, Masson's trichrome, and PAS stains, as well as western blot for CD163) and insulitis (PAS and Masson's trichrome stains). In the pancreas, hypothyroidism increased the beta-amyloid around vessels (Congo red stain); triglycerides (Folch method), lipoperoxidation (levels of malondialdehyde MDA, enzymatic method) and expression of insulin and GLUT4. A low cholesterol synthesis (Folch method and western blot for CYP51A1) and a decrease in the expression of PPARγ (immunohistochemistry and western blot) were also observed.

High doses of I2 supplement (2 mg/kg) aggravated pancreatic damage, promoting even islet amyloidosis and fibrosis. In contrast, the moderate dose of I2 (0.2 mg/kg) was able to prevent alterations in circulating lipids and in the pancreatic tissue. This prevention was accompanied by a significant decrease in the lipoperoxidation and a great expression of PPARγ.

These results describe for first time the anti-inflammatory and anti-dyslipidemia effect of the moderate dose of I2 in the pancreas and suggest the possible participation of PPARγ receptors. More studies are needed to analyze the therapeutic effect of iodine in chronic pancreatic diseases associated with inflammation.

 

[Amazoniac]

Spoiler: Iodine vs Iodide vs Molecular Iodine | Wayne Breslyn

- Potassium iodide - Wikipedia

"Like other iodide salts, KI forms I3− when combined with elemental iodine.​

​

KI(aq) + I2(s) → KI3(aq)​

​

Unlike I2, I3− salts can be highly water-soluble. Through this reaction, iodine is used in redox titrations. Aqueous KI3, "Lugol's solution", is used as a disinfectant and as an etchant for gold surfaces."​

What about Na/KCl in place of KI? ClI2−?

 

[Jam]

In my experience Kelp is always problematic. Drop that garbage and get some real pure iodine in the form of Lugol or KI.

That, and also a possible vitamin d deficiency, or insufficiency. There is unfortunately very little research done on iodine, as there is too little money to be made, but it seems, anecdotally, that higher dosages of iodine can deplete, amongst other things, vitamin d, and can thus cause an increase in rheumatic pains in susceptible persons.

 

[Makrosky]

That, and also a possible vitamin d deficiency, or insufficiency. There is unfortunately very little research done on iodine, as there is too little money to be made, but it seems, anecdotally, that higher dosages of iodine can deplete, amongst other things, vitamin d, and can thus cause an increase in rheumatic pains in susceptible persons.

Some studies claiming iodine is problematic are fundamentally flawed because they don't use selenium which is crucial for it to work.

Anyway Jam, I never knew about iodine depleting vitamin D. Do you have more info on that?

Besides selenium which is needed to not damage the thyroid, iodine will deplete many things because it ramps up metabolism so more of everything will be needed/used.

 

[Jam]

Some studies claiming iodine is problematic are fundamentally flawed because they don't use selenium which is crucial for it to work.

Anyway Jam, I never knew about iodine depleting vitamin D. Do you have more info on that?

Besides selenium which is needed to not damage the thyroid, iodine will deplete many things because it ramps up metabolism so more of everything will be needed/used.

Sorry, I can't present much info at the moment, beyond mere conjecture and anecdotal evidence, which I don't have access to at the moment. But, as with selenium, it appears that iodine supplementation requires vitamin d sufficiency in order to safeguard, and potentially also heal, the thyroid in people with auto-immune conditions.

 

[Amazoniac]

- The WOMED model of benign thyroid disease: Acquired magnesium deficiency due to physical and psychological stressors relates to dysfunction of oxidative phosphorylation

Background
The aim of this study was to discern whether a relation between biochemical parameters, sonography and musculoskeletal data exists in cases of hyperthyroidism and whether they are modifiable through supplementation with selenomethionine and magnesium citrate as well as by acupuncture and manual medicine methods.

Results
A direct correlation between whole blood selenium and serum magnesium was found in subjects without thyroid disease and in menopausal women while it was reversed in cases of thyroid diseases as well as in patients with depression, infection, and in infertile women. Vascularization indices were elevated in cases of newly diagnosed benign thyroid diseases. Musculoskeletal changes i.e. lateral tension and idiopathic moving toes, as well as situations of physical and psychological stress and minor trauma and infection led to an increase of vascularization. Magnesium levels correlated negatively with these two conditions. The supplementation brought a reduction of the vascularization indices and reduced the incidence of idiopathic moving toes. Treatment of lateral tension required manual medicine methods and acupuncture (gastrocnemius). A small subgroup of patients showed a further reduction of hyper-vascularization after receiving coenzyme Q10.

Conclusions
We interpret the elevated thyroid vascularization and low magnesium levels as signs of an inflammatory process related to the musculoskeletal changes. Improvement of thyroid function and morphology can be achieved after correcting the influence of stressors together with the supplementation regime. We hypothesize that the central biochemical event in thyroid disease is that of an acquired, altered mitochondrial function due to deficiency of magnesium, selenium, and coenzyme Q10.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Iodide modulates protein damage induced by the inflammation-associated heme enzyme myeloperoxidase

Spoiler

"A role for I− in modulating MPO-induced damage has poorly studied probably as a result of its low systemic concentration (< 1 μM for I−, 100 mM for Cl−, 20–80 μM for SCN−) [52], though there is abundant evidence that I− levels can be significantly elevated by interventions [53,54]."

"Whilst Cl− is the most abundant MPO substrate, its oxidation by Compound I is relatively slow compared to Br−, I−, and SCN− with apparent second order rate constants, at pH 7.0, of 2.5×10^4, 1.1×106, 7.2×10^6, and 9.6×10^6M−1 s−1 for Cl−, Br−, I− and SCN− respectively [7]."

"Although the rate constants for reaction of Cl− with Compound I of MPO is much lower than that for I−, the high plasma concentrations of Cl− would be expected to more than compensate for this, and hence with normal physiologic anion concentrations, Cl− would be expected to outcompete I− as a substrate [7]."

"Exposure of plasma fibronectin to HOCl and MPO/H2O2/Cl− induces protein damage in a dose-dependent manner [58,59]." "In the current study it has been demonstrated that such damage can be ameliorated by I− at concentrations as low as 1 μM, with these low concentrations providing protection against modification to both the cell-binding and heparin-binding domains (Fig. 1A and B). Furthermore, the loss of cell adhesion to fibronectin induced by MPO/H2O2/ Cl− was also attenuated by low concentrations of I− (Fig. 3)."

"[..]rather than inhibiting the enzyme or acting as a competitive substrate, I− act in a catalytic manner, via an unidentified very fast secondary reaction mechanism. Alternatively, it may be a more efficient substrate for the enzyme than previously indicated [7]."

"Irrespective of the precise mechanism, the data presented here indicate that I− can reduce MPO-induced damage in vitro at concentrations that can be achieved physiologically, with amelioration of protein damage and loss of cell adhesion detected at I− concentrations as low as 1 μM. This concentration can be readily achieved in humans by oral supplementation [53], and it is also possible that local in vivo concentrations of I− may be higher than systemic values, and may therefore result in greater effects than previously suspected."

⬑ [53] Effects of low dose oral iodide supplementation on thyroid function in normal men

Spoiler

- Determination of plasma inorganic iodine by neutron activation analysis after ultrafiltration

A direct method for the determination of plasma inorganic iodine (PII) is described. After separation from protein-bound iodine by ultrafiltration, the PII is determined by neutron activation analysis. In material from thirty-nine normal subjects a range of 7.9–88.3 nM was observed, with a mean value of 31.5 nM.

- Serum inorganic iodide levels following ingestion of a tablet form of Lugol solution: Evidence for an enterohepatic circulation of iodine

Spoiler

126 g I− ≈ 1 mol
0.000001 g I− ≈ ? mol

1 μg I− ≈ 0.008 μmol

80 μg/L ≈ 0.6 μmol/L = 0.6 μM
2250 μg/L ≈ 20 μM