Dangers Of Iodized Salt; Normal Use Rapidly Induces Iodine Toxicity

Amazoniac

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The relative safety of gram doses, which I have never advocated for or been interested in taking, makes me feel quite safe with milligram doses. I've dosed as high as 20 drops (125mg) once per week in 2017, and, while it raised temperatures and helped me focus, I struggled to stop talking once I started and exhibited less patience. I took breaks in between and prefer 1 or 2 drops a few times per week now, especially during the cold months. My 100ml Lugols 5% solution is over half empty and I've drunk all save a portion which was applied to my scalp to successfully regrow hair on a 2-3 cm2 bald spot. The last time I was a patient in a hospital was salmonella typhi (gram negative bacterium :/ ) poisoning 13 years ago.
Broadening the range based on extreme intakes tends to make the person imprudent with dosing, it distorts the perception of what's reasonable. For example, 1-2 drops is a difference of more than 6 mg of iodine, but since we're now discussing grams of iodine, it looks like nothing. You must've odserved that drops vary in size, it's challenging to know what you'll be getting when working with large factors such as the content per drop here.

It's good that you don't have to micromanage your supplements for being robust in your tolerance, but we can't use it to diagnose: only after megadosing finding out who reacts adversely. With that reframing people are prone to start from what you judge to be a conservative amount, and although in cases of having the typhoid inflammed the person usually reacts badly to low doses as well, extreme amounts will be a shock without having a chance to grasp how the next increment should affect and if it's there will be proper adaptation. By the time they realize that it's not a competing halogen detox, there could be significant damage.

Potassium iodide was a mere solubilizer for iodine in Lugol's formulation, what are you after? If it's to improve in one way or another, we all want it, and if iodine delivered the harm-free promise as you proponents imply, why would there be opponents born out of experience? Since there are susceptible people involved that can be compromised, we have to be more careful with it.
 
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Broadening the range based on extreme intakes tends to make the person imprudent with dosing, it distorts the perception of what's reasonable. For example, 1-2 drops is a difference of more than 6 mg of iodine, but since we're now discussing grams of iodine, it looks like nothing. You must've odserved that drops vary in size, it's challenging to know what you'll be getting when working with large factors such as the content per drop here.

It's good that you don't have to micromanage your supplements for being robust in your tolerance, but we can't use it to diagnose: only after megadosing finding out who reacts adversely. With that reframing people are prone to start from what you judge to be a conservative amount, and although in cases of having the typhoid inflammed the person usually reacts badly to low doses as well, extreme amounts will be a shock without having a chance to grasp how the next increment should affect and if it's there will be proper adaptation. By the time they realize that it's not a competing halogen detox, there could be significant damage.

Potassium iodide was a mere solubilizer for iodine in Lugol's formulation, what are you after? If it's to improve in one way or another, we all want it, and if iodine delivered the harm-free promise as you proponents imply, why would there be opponents born out of experience? Since there are susceptible people involved that can be compromised, we have to be more careful with it.

Admirably sensible advice which only uniquely disagreeable persons would counter!

Not to further rustle any jimmies, but the CDC recommends 16mg potassium iodide for newborns in case of suspected radiation exposure: Facts about potassium iodide. And, coincidentally, they recommend a similar dose for adults, intended to provide 24 hours of protection from thyroid cancer, to what I took in 2017.

20191122_041901.jpg
 

tara

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Seems to work just fine although I did have nasty bromide detox.
What did bromide detox consist of, if you want to tell?
Since there are susceptible people involved that can be compromised, we have to be more careful with it.
That's what I've got from my reading too.
Not to further rustle any jimmies, but the CDC recommends 16mg potassium iodide for newborns in case of suspected radiation exposure:
A lower risk to counter a higher risk from radiation harm?
 

burtlancast

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Yep.

Notice the 130 mg dose for adults: that's +20 drops of Lugol, to be taken for as long as the radioactivity scare persists- weeks if necessary.
 

Amazoniac

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Since the content per drop of lethal solution isn't much reliable (could be varying more than 2 mg of iodine per drop), it's difficult for the body to make adjustments. In acute experiments, 1.5 mg/d was enough to induce significant changes in hormonal profile after some days of iodide supplementation. The body must adapt with time if conditions are supportive and allow, but given that the input is unpredictable, it has to be to the highest intakes of the supplement that it's exposed to and desensitize to the rest, something advantageous if the goal is to pollute other tissues.

- The Effect of Small Increases in Dietary Iodine on Thyroid Function in Euthyroid Subjects

upload_2019-11-22_5-52-56.png


For some reason men were only part of the 1500 mcg group,
however the intervals for each mean value stayed fine and there's before and after to compare.​

- Effects of low dose oral iodide supplementation on thyroid function in normal men

- Effect of low dose iodide supplementation on thyroid function in potentially susceptible subjects: are dietary iodide levels in Britain acceptable?

Why isn't thyroxine referred to as tetraiodothyronine? Is it because of the subliminal message?
 
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Hugh Johnson

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What did bromide detox consist of, if you want to tell?
Headaches, scoliosis got worse, negative emotions, energy levels down, trouble thinking straight, sleep issues, muscle tension. I figure it was bromide because my urine got this horrid metallic taste and bromide is supposed to do that. It lasted for a few months.
 

Lucas

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Since the content per drop of lethal solution isn't much reliable (could be varying more than 2 mg of iodine per drop), it's difficult for the body to make adjustments. In acute experiments, 1.5 mg/d was enough to induce significant changes in hormonal profile after some days of iodide supplementation. The body must adapt with time if conditions are supportive and allow, but given that the input is unpredictable, it has to be to the highest intakes of the supplement that it's exposed to and desensitize to the rest, something advantageous if the goal is to pollute other tissues.

- The Effect of Small Increases in Dietary Iodine on Thyroid Function in Euthyroid Subjects

View attachment 15741

For some reason men were only part of the 1500 mcg group,
however the intervals for each mean value stayed fine and there's before and after to compare.​

- Effects of low dose oral iodide supplementation on thyroid function in normal men

- Effect of low dose iodide supplementation on thyroid function in potentially susceptible subjects: are dietary iodide levels in Britain acceptable?

Why isn't thyroxine referred to as tetraiodothyronine? Is it because of the subliminal message?
So, these studies prove that iodine reduces thyroid function?
 

Amazoniac

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So, these studies prove that iodine reduces thyroid function?
Yes. One thing the proponents have to admit: it's not inert at low doses, it does something and it isn't positive. Whether the person can adapt to it and reap its potential benefits, or the course would've been different if iodine wasn't increased in isolation, is another story.

They were used to set the current Upper Limits. The urinary iodine excretions before supplementation were reported, so they could estimate the dietary intakes and add to the minimum experimental dose that induced significant adverse effects. An uncertainty factor of 1.5 applied to it is the same as guessing that 2/3 of the total dose ingested (for lacking intermediate amounts that would show when it start to get adverse for the subjects) are safe. The EFSA were cautionary enough to consider only 1/3 of what was ingested.

From the first:

"Beyond question, there are, however, groups of susceptible individuals in whom levels of iodine intake that are well-tolerated by normal persons induce clear adverse effects. In patients with autonomously functioning thyroid tissue, very small doses of iodine in areas of iodine deficiency and higher doses in areas of iodine sufficiency, can induce hyperthyroidism.[18] Conversely, in some patients with Hashimoto’s disease, Graves’ disease treated with 131I or surgery, or cystic fibrosis, and in patients who have undergone hemithyroidectomy, moderate to large increments in iodine intake can lead to the development of hypothyroidism.[18] Within this context, it is difficult to define an upper limit of normal for the daily iodine intake. It is perhaps preferable to consider the problem in terms of what is normal, what is acceptable, and what is clearly excessive. A usual iodine intake can be thought of as one that is commonplace in a given region and is not associated with an increased frequency of thyroid disease. An acceptable level of iodine intake would be one that is unusually high, but is also an uncommon cause of thyroid disease, whereas an excessive iodine intake would be one that leads to definite thyroid disease in a significant fraction of the population. From this standpoint it should be recognized, however, that what is acceptable for some patients is excessive for others, and vice versa."​

No, the first link doesn't work, and the 2nd and 3rd studies' sample sizes are too small to be representative of the populations they are studying.
Let's brush these off and instead rely on doses for radioactive iodine protection to judge what's reasonable.
 
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Let's brush these off

I'll tell you what's being brushed off in practice-- effective, cheap, and available tools such as aspirin and iodine-- in favour of patentable alternatives that are either experimental or known to cause legitimate harm.

If epidemiology is conducted, the conclusions can be dismissed. If unrepresentative sample sizes are collected, the conclusions can be dismissed. (In addition-- and this is less related to the specific examples above yet relevant to the broader discussion of robustness in science-- if the limitations section discusses everything that should have been done but was not, the language of the paper is vague enough to infer, as Richard Lindzen would say, plausible deniability, or the authors' disclosure of conflict of interest is a veritable laundry list, well, what can be done with those conclusions is quite clear.)

and instead rely on doses for radioactive iodine protection to judge what's reasonable.

It demonstrates poor form to strawman one's ideological opponent.
 

Amazoniac

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I'll tell you what's being brushed off in practice-- effective, cheap, and available tools such as aspirin and iodine-- in favour of patentable alternatives that are either experimental or known to cause legitimate harm.

If epidemiology is conducted, the conclusions can be dismissed. If unrepresentative sample sizes are collected, the conclusions can be dismissed. (In addition-- and this is less related to the specific examples above yet relevant to the broader discussion of robustness in science-- if the limitations section discusses everything that should have been done but was not, the language of the paper is vague enough to infer, as Richard Lindzen would say, plausible deniability, or the authors' disclosure of conflict of interest is a veritable laundry list, well, what can be done with those conclusions is quite clear.)



It demonstrates poor form to strawman one's ideological opponent.
The authors implied that those are acceptable ranges. Are you sure it's not people's negative experiences that are being brushed off here?
 

Ras

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Regardless of the results of any research, individual experimentation will discover the subjective reality of a person.

If every study on KI and iodine Proved™ that ingestion of more than 01 milligrams of potassium iodide and elemental iodine daily will gender harm, but I take 33.3 milligrams daily for 99.9 years and never experience an adverse result, but rather more robust health, then the important knowledge was the manifestation of reality in me. All this debate on studies and how they would apply to different people is masturbation.

Experimentation is king.
 

burtlancast

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Ingesting iodine is a cancer preventative.
Lacking iodine ( more and more prevalent in all industrial countries - google it) is a cancer risk.
Halogens like chlorine, bromine and fluoride displace iodine from the body.

Iodine is accumulated by the thyroid, breast, ovaries and prostate where it prevents cysts formation. The brain also accumulates iodine.

And all importantly for Ray Peaters, iodine reduces PUFAS, lowers the PUFA body pool and prevents them reacting with oxygen in the body.
 

Ras

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Ingesting iodine is a cancer preventative.
Lacking iodine ( more and more prevalent in all industrial countries - google it) is a cancer risk.
Halogens like chlorine, bromine and fluoride displace iodine from the body.

Iodine is accumulated by the thyroid, breast, ovaries and prostate where it prevents cysts formation. The brain also accumulates iodine.

And all importantly for Ray Peaters, iodine reduces PUFAS, lowers the PUFA body pool and prevents them reacting with oxygen in the body.
Amen.
 

Amazoniac

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Regardless of the results of any research, individual experimentation will discover the subjective reality of a person.

If every study on KI and iodine Proved™ that ingestion of more than 01 milligrams of potassium iodide and elemental iodine daily will gender harm, but I take 33.3 milligrams daily for 99.9 years and never experience an adverse result, but rather more robust health, then the important knowledge was the manifestation of reality in me. All this debate on studies and how they would apply to different people is masturbation.

Experimentation is king.
The experimentation has a starting point, how to define it without knowing what is 'normal, what is acceptable, and what is clearly excessive'?
Ingesting iodine is a cancer preventative.
Lacking iodine ( more and more prevalent in all industrial countries - google it) is a cancer risk.
Halogens like chlorine, bromine and fluoride displace iodine from the body.

Iodine is accumulated by the thyroid, breast, ovaries and prostate where it prevents cysts formation. The brain also accumulates iodine.

And all importantly for Ray Peaters, iodine reduces PUFAS, lowers the PUFA body pool and prevents them reacting with oxygen in the body.
I guess that it attacks sites of unsaturated fat chains that are exposed, and the more you have, more randomness you can expect out of it. In either way, to obtain the whole-body effects, the typhoid has to withstand and adapt.

- 6-Iodolactone, key mediator of antitumoral properties of iodine

"When the amount of iodide intake rises above 1 mg/day, iodide ceases to function as a substrate for hormonogenesis, and it is perceived as a homeostatic signal that prevents the installation of thyrotoxicosis [20], a phenomenon called the “Wolff–Chaikoff effect” [24]. This homeostatic regulation is characterized at the molecular level by: (1) inhibition of H2O2 generation by dual oxidases, thereby blocking iodide oxidation and organification [24,25]; (2) suppression of sodium-iodide symporter (NIS) expression [26], stopping the entry of iodide and lowering the intracellular iodide concentration; and (3) inhibition of thyroid hormone secretion [27]. In high concentrations of iodide, additional mechanisms are also observed, like reduction of thyroid blood flow [28,29], inhibition of thyroid growth [17,30], and induction of apoptosis [31,32]. Since all these inhibitory effects of iodide can be prevented by blocking iodide uptake with perchlorate (specific inhibitor of NIS) or by inactivating thyroperoxidase (TPO; iodide oxidation enzyme) with methimazole or propylthiouracil, some authors have proposed an iodinated intermediate; this idea has been called the “XI hypothesis” [20,33–35]. A candidate for the iodocompound XI should beformed after an iodide oxidation process and, by itself, it should replicate the inhibitory effects of iodide; a number of candidate molecules have been proposed, but two classes of compounds standout: iodolipids and iodoaldehydes [20,36,37]."​

There was a group of researchers who found out that molecular iodine is not reduced to iodide during absorption. One drop of Lugol's solution could give you 2.5 mg of molecular iodine, how to get this much without a supplement? It's not physiological and it's being used as a drug.

It wouldn't matter much if generalizing its safety didn't encourage people to overdose on something that involves risks, it's worth reinforcing that they're not imaginary (the risks, not people's existence). Most people do adapt to the excesses, yet inflammatory states of this nature are getting more prevalent:
- Physiological low-dose oestrogen promotes the development of experimental autoimmune thyroiditis through the up-regulation of Th1/Th17 responses (would make Raj arm-wave dance)

It can be an useful tool, but it's not mandatory for recovery, and if you start taking typhoid hormones, the dietary intake is freed up for other functions.
 
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tara

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Notice the 130 mg dose for adults: that's +20 drops of Lugol, to be taken for as long as the radioactivity scare persists- weeks if necessary.
I understand iodine to be standard for countering radiation poisoning, but that doesn't mean it is without risks of it's own.
Headaches, scoliosis got worse, negative emotions, energy levels down, trouble thinking straight, sleep issues, muscle tension. I figure it was bromide because my urine got this horrid metallic taste and bromide is supposed to do that. It lasted for a few months.
Thanks. Sounds unpleasant.
 

Amazoniac

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Well, since this thread is ongoing, I can provide an update on my iodine/iodide intake. The bottle of Lugols (5% solution) I referred to earlier in this thread is finally finished, and I have ordered a new one.

During covid, I found myself coughing up green phlem on day 4. 5-10 drops of Lugols nuked whatever was causing the problem to hell, and it never returned. Other than that, Lugols has not performed further miracles.

May be useful to note that I ordered the 100ml bottle on 28/03/2016 and finished it almost exactly 6 years later. As always, proceed with an abundance of caution, and happy experimenting.
 
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TurboTime

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Halogens like chlorine, bromine and fluoride displace iodine from the body.
I think this is the critical thing that sort of solves both sides of the argument here. Iodine also displaces halogens from the body causing bad detox reactions like @Hugh Johnson experienced. Considering most of the western world's water is fluoridated, iodine is likely to be dangerous for most of us without approaching it carefully. Japan on the other hand doesn't even like to use fluoride in their toothpastes. Their large iodine stores likely help protect them from incidental halogens.

I suspect iodine would be good for everyone if we hadn't been poisoned by demons putting fluoride, chlorine, and bromine everywhere they can get away with. Coffee and supplemental thyroid are probably just safer ways to achieve what could have been possible with iodine.

I was put on to this by @Mad's post here A Link Between The Lymph And The Gut
Very interesting chapters on iodine in Melissa Gallico's book "The Hidden Cause of Acne: How Toxic Water Is Affecting Your Health and What You Can Do about It"
She posits that iodine was the key factor for the explosion in intelligence that made us human.

If you want to increase your iodine intake, it's suggested that you go very slowly and take extra selenium, magnesium, vitamin C, and salt so your body can detox the fluoride.
 

Hugh Johnson

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I think this is the critical thing that sort of solves both sides of the argument here. Iodine also displaces halogens from the body causing bad detox reactions like @Hugh Johnson experienced. Considering most of the western world's water is fluoridated, iodine is likely to be dangerous for most of us without approaching it carefully. Japan on the other hand doesn't even like to use fluoride in their toothpastes. Their large iodine stores likely help protect them from incidental halogens.

I suspect iodine would be good for everyone if we hadn't been poisoned by demons putting fluoride, chlorine, and bromine everywhere they can get away with. Coffee and supplemental thyroid are probably just safer ways to achieve what could have been possible with iodine.

I was put on to this by @Mad's post here A Link Between The Lymph And The Gut
Very interesting chapters on iodine in Melissa Gallico's book "The Hidden Cause of Acne: How Toxic Water Is Affecting Your Health and What You Can Do about It"
She posits that iodine was the key factor for the explosion in intelligence that made us human.

If you want to increase your iodine intake, it's suggested that you go very slowly and take extra selenium, magnesium, vitamin C, and salt so your body can detox the fluoride.
I did the exact opposite. Overwhelmed the halides with iodine, along with salted water speed up clearance. Whenever I felt detox symptoms, half a litre of salted water and a few hundred milligrammes of iodine with it. Worked just fine.

Might be dangerous, and you really can't do this half way. But then you do get rid of them.
 

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