Progestene - Liquid Progesterone (bioidentical)

[haidut]

I take Progestene topical. On legs, tummy, neck...

Is it safe to take it oral?
Amounts would be the same? Possible effects: better/worse absorbtion?

We only have license to sell it as topical supplement, but many people choose to take it orally. I think Peat prefer progesterone and some of the fat-soluble vitamins taken topically. The effects should be similar but there is difference in plasma concentrations and half-life. Used topically may give longer half life, so the supplement could potentially be taken less often. I would search the forum for more info, there are some great threads discussing oral vs. topical administration for many supplements.

 

[haidut]

I just wanted to post this for everybody using or thinking of ordering Progestene.
We are now using an odor-free DMSO as a solvent for the steroids and this type of DMSO also seems dramatically lower the incidence of skin irritation as well.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I just wanted to post this for everybody using or thinking of ordering Progestene.
We are now using an odor-free DMSO as a solvent for the steroids and this type of DMSO also seems dramatically lower the incidence of skin irritation as well.

HOORAY!!! These are the words I was waiting for, thanks haidut!

 

[moss]

I just wanted to post this for everybody using or thinking of ordering Progestene.
We are now using an odor-free DMSO as a solvent for the steroids and this type of DMSO also seems dramatically lower the incidence of skin irritation as well.

Brilliant haidut, thanks so much.

 

[Kray]

We only have license to sell it as topical supplement, but many people choose to take it orally. I think Peat prefer progesterone and some of the fat-soluble vitamins taken topically. The effects should be similar but there is difference in plasma concentrations and half-life. Used topically may give longer half life, so the supplement could potentially be taken less often. I would search the forum for more info, there are some great threads discussing oral vs. topical administration for many supplements.

Hi Haidut,

Would you please give me your thoughts on the comments below about topical progesterone (not your product), accumulation, and cortisol issues? I am a bit confused and would like clarification. I am post-menopausal and think I would benefit with continuous use. However, your comments about needing to apply less often also makes me wonder how much is too much if I continue the topical route.

If there is a chance of build-up over time and issues with cortisol, would oral be preferable? If oral intake processes through liver first-take, are there any considerations in that regard for choosing topical over oral?

Thanks for your help.

________________
"For some women, the progesterone builds up in the fat tissue and then is released over time. This leads to having an excess of progesterone, which has side effects of headache, strong tension in body, high BP, bad insomnia, anxiety, because the excess progesterone competes with cortisol for receptors so the body compensates by producing more and more cortisol. So rather than feeling mellowed out like I did the first several months of usage, I ended up feeling very stressed and wired. I am off the cream now and hoping my hormones will stabilize."

 

[Kray]

Hey,
I am a young woman, PCOS, no periods.
How should I supplement Progestene?
14 days on, 14 days off?
Let me add that I just started taking Vitex tincture.

Ulla,

How are you doing? I'm interested in knowing specifically if the Vitex regulated your cycle?

Thanks,

 

[heartnhands]

Several forum members asked Haidut to make a progesterone product because they felt Progest-e was no longer working as well as it used to and they were concerned about the quality. He was doing us a favor by providing a safe alternative and I appreciate it. I'll try to find the thread.

Thanks for making that note!
Ray Peat has commented on the lower quality of all vitamin E oils he has recently tested.

I have used Progest E and found it difficult. I also used DMSO after applying it topically to quicken absorption.

According to Lita Lee that might mean absorption was deminished due to the progesterone christalising and excretion from the kidneys?
Without tests can you offer some clarity Haidut?

Ps, I just began using projestene for a very painful vericosities vein and took a long nap after application.

 

[heartnhands]

The difference is we can directly talk to Haidut, whereas I don't know the people at Kenogen. We are trying to compare the two supplements on a value basis. I personally put value in knowing who is making the supplement, so I take that into consideration, and for me it's relevant. I like to know (and trust) what is in a supplement, as much as I can at least, since I am going to be taking it everyday. I was also talking specifically about topical application. Haidut's supplement is not meant to be taken orally, whereas it is recommended to take the Progest-E orally(Ray says this in the clip above).



As a topical application, I think Haidut's is worth the price.

If someone doesn't care about taking it orally vs topically then I think the Progest-E is a better deal. Plus, it has vitamin E to boot.

My wife takes Progest-E. I'm not against it at all. For her, she doesn't like the DMSO smell and feel on her skin.

Another reason I'm arguing with you is because I think you are being very rude towards Haidut. Asking questions about his supplement and comparing it cost wise to another is not rude (I think it's an excellent discussion actually), but it's the way you asked. That's just my opinion though, and I might be being a little unfair in that regard. I also might be overly polite (I am Canadian... :? )

To your point a vigorous discussion seems fare. On another level the value of an interested expert and the self experiments we all demonstrate is a lot more than price. I hope no one has to defend their sense of costs too often.

Considering the deminished quality of vitamin E, I wonder if the patented progest E is at all what it was origionally.

 

[tara]

Considering the deminished quality of vitamin E, I wonder if the patented progest E is at all what it was origionally.

I think Peat has said that the manufacturer changed the formula, no longer exactly following his patent. Peat is not in involved in manufacturing or selling it.

 

[haidut]

Thanks for making that note!
Ray Peat has commented on the lower quality of all vitamin E oils he has recently tested.

I have used Progest E and found it difficult. I also used DMSO after applying it topically to quicken absorption.

According to Lita Lee that might mean absorption was deminished due to the progesterone christalising and excretion from the kidneys?
Without tests can you offer some clarity Haidut?

Ps, I just began using projestene for a very painful vericosities vein and took a long nap after application.

All I can say is that progesterone dissolved in DMSO is close to 100% bioavailable. Using DMSO for topical delivery of steroids is an accepted clinical practice in many countries and has been shown to be effective in raising blood levels of progesterone. Several members have commented on Progestene raising their blood levels of progesterone and your experience of getting sleepy after application of Progestene are a good testament to it getting to the blood and brain.

 

[heartnhands]

All I can say is that progesterone dissolved in DMSO is close to 100% bioavailable. Using DMSO for topical delivery of steroids is an accepted clinical practice in many countries and has been shown to be effective in raising blood levels of progesterone. Several members have commented on Progestene raising their blood levels of progesterone and your experience of getting sleepy after application of Progestene are a good testament to it getting to the blood and brain.

Thanks for validating the bioavalability of substances when used with DMSO. Horses are frequently treated with DMSO has been a long standing practice and never challanged by University of Penn Veteranary School.

 

[Ulla]

Ulla,

How are you doing? I'm interested in knowing specifically if the Vitex regulated your cycle?

Thanks,

Hey
I can't say I noticed any extra benefits from Vitex back then. I was taking Vitex 20 mg daily for two months and using Progestene too.

I am re-doing the healing again, this time with another Vitex brand that is more powerful and without adding any progesterone at all.

I quit progesterone like a month ago, acne got me quite soon after it. Now I am doing Vitex and adding some Zinc and acne improved last week. No more new cysts :)
I feel good but it is too soon to say anything for sure. I 'gave' myself a few months doing this protocol until deciding if this is good or not.
So far I think I am doing really good.
I hope for ovulation...

 

[Kray]

Hey
I can't say I noticed any extra benefits from Vitex back then. I was taking Vitex 20 mg daily for two months and using Progestene too.

I am re-doing the healing again, this time with another Vitex brand that is more powerful and without adding any progesterone at all.

I quit progesterone like a month ago, acne got me quite soon after it. Now I am doing Vitex and adding some Zinc and acne improved last week. No more new cysts :)
I feel good but it is too soon to say anything for sure. I 'gave' myself a few months doing this protocol until deciding if this is good or not.
So far I think I am doing really good.
I hope for ovulation...

Thanks for the info. Please see pm message.

 

[NathanK]

What is the Progestene progesterone equivalent of 2-3 drops of Progest E? I am not sure because of the increased bioavailability.

I mainly purchased for my post menopausal mother to try, but started playing with this week. I havent felt the sleepiness (ive tried 1, 3, and 10 drop days thus far and gonna ease on it until I understand the dosing better), but do notice almost immediate warming like no other supp Ive tried (T3 would hit, but mainly missed). @haidut mentioned that that is the progesterone getting into the cell. I guess that helps thyroid or metabolism some how since its not cortisol doing the warming? Another mystery to me.

Other things:
-Since I am taking Estroban and Mitolipin, I appreciate it not having vit E (still voting for mitolipin to lower E content :)).

-Yesterday I started taking ~6mg DHEA mixed in fractionated C.O. orally for the increased androgen production. From here on out I may try to rub it topically since its has been mentioned it is preferable with different effects from oral administration. I think I noticed an increase in libido after the DHEA since the day before I had taken 10 drops of P and thought it might have affected my typically high libido.

-I was reading up on progesterone and did not realize that men make it in the testicles along with testosterone. Im assuming that the reason low dose P can increase T is the activation of the cells there. One may need the other in some form. The T increase mentioned could just be from lowering aromatization than actually increasing T production. It's interesting and may be an viable option for those with low T.

I'll report back if I notice more after I figure out the right dosing. I just had my progesterone, with full androgens, labs taken last friday and still awaiting results. I honestly couldnt tell you if I needed this or not, but its been fun playing with it this week

 

[Bluebell]

There is an argument that topically applied progesterone builds up in the fat, then releases all the time, which is not a good thing for women doing 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

Does Progesterone Accumulate In The Fatty Tissues?

Would topically applied Progestene build up in the fat?

If so, is there any way we could take it through the gum/tongue membranes as Ray recommends for Progest-E?

"When dissolved in vitamin E, progesterone begins entering the blood stream almost as soon as it contacts any membrane, such as the lips, tongue, gums, or palate, but when it is swallowed, it continues to be absorbed as part of the digestive process. When taken with food, its absorption occurs at the same rate as the digestion and absorption of the food." - Ray Peat

"For general purposes, it is most economical and effective to take progesterone dissolved in vitamin E orally, for example taking a few drops on the lips and tongue, or rubbing it into the gums. (It is good for the general health of the gums.) These membranes are very thin, and the progesterone quickly enters the blood." - Ray Peat

 

[haidut]

There is an argument that topically applied progesterone builds up in the fat, then releases all the time, which is not a good thing for women doing 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

Does Progesterone Accumulate In The Fatty Tissues?

Would topically applied Progestene build up in the fat?

If so, is there any way we could take it through the gum/tongue membranes as Ray recommends for Progest-E?

"When dissolved in vitamin E, progesterone begins entering the blood stream almost as soon as it contacts any membrane, such as the lips, tongue, gums, or palate, but when it is swallowed, it continues to be absorbed as part of the digestive process. When taken with food, its absorption occurs at the same rate as the digestion and absorption of the food." - Ray Peat

"For general purposes, it is most economical and effective to take progesterone dissolved in vitamin E orally, for example taking a few drops on the lips and tongue, or rubbing it into the gums. (It is good for the general health of the gums.) These membranes are very thin, and the progesterone quickly enters the blood." - Ray Peat

Progestene is just a DMSO-delivered progesterone, so whatever arguments you think apply to other progesterone supplements should apply to Progestene as well. I don't know if it accumulates in fat, but being hydrophobic and being able to kick estrogen out of fat cells it probably means that it does at least get to the fat cells.

 

[MB50]

I am trying to help my gf with what seems to be hormonal acne and elevated androgens after stopping birth control 6 months ago. From what I understand the acne is from increased DHT synthesis from stopping the pill, but it also seems that estrogen levels are elevated in relation to progesterone (the BC had synthetic progesterone and estrogen). Do you think progestene would be a good supplement to try, despite possibly increasing levels of DHT synthesis further by enhancing 5 -AR? She is also 27 and otherwise healthy.

 

[haidut]

I am trying to help my gf with what seems to be hormonal acne and elevated androgens after stopping birth control 6 months ago. From what I understand the acne is from increased DHT synthesis from stopping the pill, but it also seems that estrogen levels are elevated in relation to progesterone (the BC had synthetic progesterone and estrogen). Do you think progestene would be a good supplement to try, despite possibly increasing levels of DHT synthesis further by enhancing 5 -AR? She is also 27 and otherwise healthy.

I think progesterone and even pregnenolone would be a great way to control excess androgenicity through adrenal overactivity. Peat has recommended this to quite a few people with androgen (and estrogen) overload due to PCOS or pill use.

 

[johnwester130]

why is this 5 dollars more expensive ?

 

[haidut]

why is this 5 dollars more expensive ?

More expensive than what?