Peata's Log For Weight Loss & Misc

[Amazoniac]

Amazoniac -- that is exactly what I am thinking also. I looked at the website for the fecal test..man...catch it in a dish and mash it up in a test tube, eh?

Better than ingesting from a donor you don't even know. Haha!
In the worst case you'll have a detailed lab analysis of your current GI condition.

I suggest you fast for 16h or so before taking the test to help a bit by removing influences from the last meal and get a clearer picture.

 

[Amazoniac]

Carb cycling in my opinion works like jumping from a diet to another. You solve some problems and create others, when it's unbearable you go back and restart the cycle. A steady supply is much less stressful and won't force the organism to chronically compensate for nutrient deficiencies. Again, it offers relief but won't solve what is causing it.

Yes, I agree...and I wouldn't consider it for myself, but some people seem to enjoy it or do well with it. Personally, I would hate the constant changing. I'm a simpleton that way.

Yes! Carb cycling almost sounds like a fancy term for bingeing. It is much better to distribute and have balanced meals than shifting between extremes.
All in all, if someone is coming from a very low carb it's definitely a step in the right direction.

 

[superhuman]

ok seriously this is so ******* easy that i kind of get frustrated. People that are interested in RP work and read his work should know how weight loss works, since its the easiest thing there is.

CALORIES IN CALORIES OUT!!!

get enough protein, focus on carbs and limit fat. Track your calories and find how many calories you need to loose weight or maintain weight and then reduce calories.

Please dont think you can just smash down "RP foods" and you want store fat. You will get fat as **** no matter how nice the ice cream is if you eat to much of it. Its not fancy, its just simple hard facts. There are no fancy smancy fat burning foods, or ***t like that. Focus on RP foods and track calories

 

[messtafarian]

I disagree it is that easy; otherwise most "diets"wouldn't be trying to trick people into eating less instead of just telling them to.

All of hunger is hormonally driven. As Peat says, once glycogen stores are full a person loses interest in eating sugar and loses interest in salt if cortisol is normalized. The mammalian digestive system doesn't count calories and in a perfectly homeostatic person there would be no need to, regardless of what foods were chosen.

I believe part of the reason Peat likes to stay out of these discussions if he can is partially because there is always someone hanging around them who's being combative and evangelistic.

Nutrition in the 21st century really isn't that frickin easy. If it were there wouldn't be anyone reading these boards.

 

[narouz]

CALORIES IN CALORIES OUT!!!

From the KMUD interview of February 15th.
KMUD: Weight Gain, Foamy Urine, Fats, Light Therapy, Dreams, -- 2-15-2013
http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/download/file.php?id=312

The questioner is the KMUD co-host, Sarah Murray.
Go to the 48 minute mark of the interview:

SM: "I guess what you're saying is 400 calories from orange juice
is not comparative to 400 calories from potatoes or rice."

Ray Peat: "...uh, definitely not. It [the orange juice] stimulates your metabolism and suppresses
the stress hormones."

SM: "Whereas 400 calories from baked potato and rice would increase your stress hormones
and suppress your metabolism?"

RP: "Yeah. And then there's the matter of the starch particles, that if you don't have some saturated fat
with them some of the starch particles can set up a whole pattern of stress and injury by entering
the blood stream."

 

[messtafarian]

Good quote narouz.

You know, even so -- even with the somewhat surprising advice that Peat has about macronutrient the real issue is that there is only so much you can do to combat genetics, fat storage, latent infection or disease, hormonal glitches and previous metabolic injury. I think his underlying message is that "cutting calories" is one way to lose fat but it is not necessarily the best path to metabolic health.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

ok seriously this is so f***ing easy that i kind of get frustrated. People that are interested in RP work and read his work should know how weight loss works, since its the easiest thing there is.

CALORIES IN CALORIES OUT!!!

get enough protein, focus on carbs and limit fat. Track your calories and find how many calories you need to loose weight or maintain weight and then reduce calories.

Please dont think you can just smash down "RP foods" and you want store fat. You will get fat as f*** no matter how nice the ice cream is if you eat to much of it. Its not fancy, its just simple hard facts. There are no fancy smancy fat burning foods, or s*** like that. Focus on RP foods and track calories

All very true...poor liver function contributes as well and effed up gut flora (poor digestive elimination). Carrying extra fat will most certainly cause hormone issues. Fat cells produce estrogen. Too much estrogen suppresses thyroid...ad infinitum. The way out of this vicious cycle is NOT complicated, but it IS uncomfortable.

 

[sweetpeat]

The way out of this vicious cycle is NOT complicated, but it IS uncomfortable.

@thebigpeatowski, when you did your starch-free/low-fat/high fructose regimen, were you also restricting calories?

 

[lindsay]

I'm going to bring this recipe to the table - I just made it a couple weeks ago and it was ready to drink this week. Not too bad taste-wise and seems to help with digestion too. Will make you burp a bit, but nothing terrible. The garlic definitely takes precedence. You could even put it on the carrot salad :)

http://earthweareone.com/this-is-the-mo ... -the-body/

P.S. Do you eat lots of oranges or OJ?

 

[thebigpeatowski]

The way out of this vicious cycle is NOT complicated, but it IS uncomfortable.

@thebigpeatowski, when you did your starch-free/low-fat/high fructose regimen, were you also restricting calories?

ABSOLUTELY...cutting all fat and starch will naturally drop your caloric intake. I could only eat so much fruit, OJ and protein, etc. Fructose becomes sickening after a while. I did eat well cooked greens, mostly for Folate, Vit. A and Vit. K so those are sorta filling, but NO butter on them, just a squeeze of lemon and salt. I also ate salted cucumbers, apples, those helped to curb the hunger. If you try this you WILL BE HUNGRY, and you'll be craving starch and fat.

Like I said, it's not fun. but I only did it for 6 weeks at a stretch and then took a break until I was mentally ready again. When it got unbearable I took a cheat meal and ate what ever I was craving, BUT NO PUFA. Things I opted to cheat with were mountains of organic popcorn popped in coconut oil and smothered in grass fed butter or brie with baked no fat rice crackers and alcohol etc. I had also cut out all alcohol when I did this as I was trying to help my liver as much as possible. I noticed that my tolerance for alcohol (when I did drink) was dramatically improved, especially for wine.

Cutting all fat, starch and booze while increasing protein, fructose and dark leafy greens makes for a very happy liver... My liver pain went completely away. My tolerance for alcohol increased. My ability to clear estrogen improved AND apparently I am converting T4 to T3 for more efficiently because had to drop my thyroid supplement in the dead of winter. I have no other explanation for that.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I should also mention that if you are going to try this experiment that you mentally prepare yourself, get a good kitchen food scale and bathroom too. You need to track your current caloric intake. I knew how many calories I could eat WITHOUT GAINING, it was somewhere between 1600 and 1700 calories. I tracked this for several weeks while I was doing the fructose loading, but BEFORE I cut starch and fat. If I ate 1500 calories I lost weight, if I ate 1800 calories I gained. I kept myself in a caloric deficit, but NEVER at the expense of my nutrition. I obsessed over calcium intake. Calcium to phosphorous ratios. Balanced amino acids etc. Made certain I always had plenty of potassium and massive B vits etc. EVERYTHING was covered and then some. So I mentally knew I wasn't starving, but some days I was very hungry. I laid out in the sun a lot too.

I weighed every single thing that went into my mouth. It was tedious and boring, but I pretended I was in a metabolic ward which made it a mildly fun experiment.

The break even caloric intake number will be different for everyone based on your OWN personal metabolic rate, hormone profile, level of activity etc.

Also, I guess naturally prefer more protein than some too apparently, I've read that some folks struggle to get RP's recommendation of 80 gms per day, I naturally crave 95-110, sometimes more.

But THE best and most amazing part for me is that I can eat 2800 calories now and NOT gain. That part blows my mind.

 

[Amazoniac]

I'm going to bring this recipe to the table - I just made it a couple weeks ago and it was ready to drink this week. Not too bad taste-wise and seems to help with digestion too. Will make you burp a bit, but nothing terrible. The garlic definitely takes precedence. You could even put it on the carrot salad :)

http://earthweareone.com/this-is-the-mo ... -the-body/

P.S. Do you eat lots of oranges or OJ?

So mild.. Haha!
Did you use the solids also?

 

[Peata]

Thanks again, everyone. I will re-read them and let you know what I try.

I had a bad day yesterday with those feelings of light-headedness, uncomfortable pressure in my body that's hard to explain, along with irritation, "brain fog", and discomfort being on my feet trying to do stuff (partly from the weird head feeling). It seems to go along with not eating higher calories, but I took ginger and tried to make the best of it. That's part of my problem with trying to lower calories is that awful feeling that goes along with it. Adding: This feeling is new to me only since last April when I tried pregnenolone and ended up with symptoms similar to SSRI withdrawal. That's basically what hits me each time now when I go lower calories and especially when I eat something at that point. It's difficult to explain and it's different than what I'm used to when going lower calorie, which I'm very experienced with in the past and able to do that and all kinds of IF. Just wanted to try to clarify.

And I've been scared to lower calories too much from the talk about damaging your metabolism from doing it.

But for now, I'm going to experiment with it more. Adding, that I will track everything in cronometer to make sure I'm getting the nutrition I need. That's what I did before, but wanted to log that so it doesn't look like I'm starving myself.

 

[Peata]

Some stats. I measured my height, and I'm closer to 5'6-1/2" when I measured myself. Neck is 14", which I haven't looked into what the neck measurement even means, just saw posts where it was asked. I will have to look it up. And waist is 33". And hips 44".

 

[Peata]

Peata,

The reason I suggested testing is because it will save you a lot of time compared self diagnose.
Antibiotics are not selective, if your problem has to do with missing strains/colonies you will create even more problems.
Try eating fermented foods (at least their juice if you can't handle them) and supplement with Prescript Assist. Both of these after episodes of diarrhea (even if you purposedly induce them) to help with introducing missing organisms. Also both of them taken before a meal to take advantage of the stomach not being so acidic and followed by substrate for those new organisms. Fermented dairy won't make much difference except a bit of improvement in bowel movements.
I don't want to sound pessimistic but your experiment probably won't solve the problem, just offer relief. If you eat by hunger, it should be clear when you are satisfied, and if satiation comes with excess of any nutrient you are possibly competing for it.

Messtafarian, consider the same test also. Ketogenic diets work with some infections because you don't have to compete for energy, generally bacterial infections, that could be located even in the brain.

Soon I'm going to be banned from forums for being suspect of commercial interest considering how many times I suggest the Genova lab. Haha!

I did focus on GI issues in the thread, but I could have just as easily focused on the hormonal stuff because it's been there all along too. But I will keep the Genova lab info to discuss with GI doc when I see her next month. I've been having various tests done by her and have more to come at the end of the month.

Do you think the probiotic will help regardless?

 

[Peata]

Options: Ketogenic diet -- lowcarb diet to shut down all endotoxin production
course of minocycline to sterilize the gut
drugs to antagonize serotonin
Anithistamine for gut endotoxin/inflammation
activated charcoal
carrot salad.

Thanks, I'll probably add some of these things more regularly while I'm focusing on the weight loss.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Thanks again, everyone. I will re-read them and let you know what I try.

I had a bad day yesterday with those feelings of light-headedness, uncomfortable pressure in my body that's hard to explain, along with irritation, "brain fog", and discomfort being on my feet trying to do stuff (partly from the weird head feeling). It seems to go along with not eating higher calories, but I took ginger and tried to make the best of it. That's part of my problem with trying to lower calories is that awful feeling that goes along with it. And I've been scared to lower calories too much from the talk about damaging your metabolism from doing it.

But for now, I'm going to experiment with it more.

Hi Peata, I'm sorry you're feeling poorly, it certainly is NO fun. I'm pretty sure RP would say that it's stressful and I would agree. I wouldn't have tried it during winter cuz winters are already stressful enough where I live.

I was already on thyroid medication when I did this experiment. I have NO idea what it would do to someone who wasn't meds. The last time I lost a bunch of weight was back in 2011, way before I found Peat and way before I understood anything about the way my body works. I was able to go off thyroid meds then too, for about a year. Unfortunately I had no idea my continued low-carbing high PUFA diet would wreck my metabolism and my ability to use sugar. It's all part of the learning process I guess.

One thing I learned based merely my own personal experience is that the end results were far better restricting fat and starch instead of carbs. I became insulin resistant and lost a ton of muscle thanks to low-carbing and I was super high-strung all the time with an inability to relax.

Dieting in general is a total drag and I wouldn't recommend it for most people. However, I personally get hyperestrogenic symptoms when I am carrying too much body fat. There isn't enough Progest-E in the world to quell the misery when I get beyond a certain amount of fat. I don't know why it affects me so severely, perhaps it had to do with the condition of my liver? I never had an ultrasound when I was having all that liver pain so I just don't know.

 

[Peata]

I should also mention that if you are going to try this experiment that you mentally prepare yourself, get a good kitchen food scale and bathroom too. You need to track your current caloric intake. I knew how many calories I could eat WITHOUT GAINING, it was somewhere between 1600 and 1700 calories. I tracked this for several weeks while I was doing the fructose loading, but BEFORE I cut starch and fat. If I ate 1500 calories I lost weight, if I ate 1800 calories I gained. I kept myself in a caloric deficit, but NEVER at the expense of my nutrition. I obsessed over calcium intake. Calcium to phosphorous ratios. Balanced amino acids etc. Made certain I always had plenty of potassium and massive B vits etc. EVERYTHING was covered and then some. So I mentally knew I wasn't starving, but some days I was very hungry. I laid out in the sun a lot too.

I weighed every single thing that went into my mouth. It was tedious and boring, but I pretended I was in a metabolic ward which made it a mildly fun experiment.

The break even caloric intake number will be different for everyone based on your OWN personal metabolic rate, hormone profile, level of activity etc.

Also, I guess naturally prefer more protein than some too apparently, I've read that some folks struggle to get RP's recommendation of 80 gms per day, I naturally crave 95-110, sometimes more.

But THE best and most amazing part for me is that I can eat 2800 calories now and NOT gain. That part blows my mind.

This is a lot of what I was doing last month to try to lose (except this time in Feb. I am off STARCH), and I did go down a few pounds but had those terrible internal feelings all the time and was afraid to keep up with the low calories. It's not the same as "just" low blood sugar where you get symptoms like shaky, headache, adrenaline, etc. It was like what I felt that time I experimented with pregnenolone. Almost like an SSRI withdrawal feeling including thumping pulse. I've asked 3 doctors but nobody knows. One gave me an antihistamine, blood work showed nothing wrong. But I am going to try this again and do my best to keep at it without going too low on the calories. And take ginger as needed, which helped with dizziness at least.

But you're right, when you lower starch and focus on the protein and carbs, it's easy to get the protein, I've found.

Glad this has worked great for you. Hope to have similar success. Thanks.

 

[Peata]

Peata-
Where are you at, where have you been on the basics,
temperature and pulse?
I'm sorry if you've posted that info before and I've missed it.

Unfortunately I haven't kept good pulse and temp records. I did record some over the last few days, whatever this will tell you if anything.

Sat.
11:40 a.m.
pulse 80
temp 97.7

2:42 p.m.
92
98.7

Sun.
2:10 p.m.
88
98.3

Mon.
12:55 p.m.
92
98.3

 

[Peata]

Thanks for all the tips and encouragement.

When you said liver pain, can you describe it? (ache, burning, etc)