Caffeine pills for weight loss --> extreme acid reflux

[redsun]

First of all much love to Ray. May his departed soul be blessed and may his soul bless us all.

Now, Has this happened to anyone else?
I am 50 now and have been gaining weight gradually since my mid / late 30s
Currently 225 lb., 5'10"
I try to avoid extreme diets and the most I have lost was 4lb or so on the "croissant diet".
as a health practitioner my clients often report weight loss, but I have been stuck for years, and have been following Ray's principles for about 10 years.

Recently I revisited a couple of post on Caffeine and decided to try higher amount (up to 1200 mg)

Took caffeine pills twice for 1-2 days (in addition to other caffeine sources, but a total of less than 1200).
On both occasions had major and very uncomfortable acid reflux and significantly increased BM
On both occasions list 3-4 lb. very quickly
On both occasions, once discontinued the caffeine pills the GI discomfort subsided within a couple of days.

By the way, diet generally consists mostly of fruit, cheese (gouda, cheddar - up to 120 g), 2 eggs, 1-2 slices of sour dough rye, cooked root veggies, a bit of raw veggies (radishes, carrots, fennel).

Would love to receive insights and shared experiences re use of caffeine and regarding the things I experienced.

thanks.

The different types of foods you eat do not determine whether you will lose body fat. Calories in, calories out determine that. But the food choice and the macro ratios you do can make the weight loss process easier. In my experience, high protein and high carb with lower fat foods is the best way to lose weight. It worked well for me. The higher protein intake keeps you more satiated, eating enough carbs helps maintain energy as it provides liver and muscle glycogen for your brain and muscles.

Basically this means you need to eat mostly lean protein, save for egg yolks (to valuable to remove, a few egg yolks is worth having every day). Lean muscle meat such as red meat, low fat cheese or milk or even skim milk, a few whole eggs for protein. Your carbs would be starches like rice, potatoes, sourdough bread, fruit and fruit juices which are all pure carbs. All foods are technically allowed but for weight loss purposes, if you want to go the low fat route, this is how it would be done.

But you need to use a TDEE calculator (easily found on google) to determine how many calories you need and then you can cut off 500-1000 calories off of that. Thats how you lose weight in a reasonable amount of time. You need to know how many calories you are eating so that does mean you are going to have to count calories. No way around that.

Caffeine does slightly boosts metabolic rate so if you use it strategically it can make the process faster. Have caffeine (pills or coffee) every 5 hours from the moment you wake up. I am assume you eat within an hour of waking. I wouldn't go higher than 400mg of caffeine a day. It also helps you feel less hungry.

You just need to watch your micronutrient intake since its harder to get enough when you eat less. 3 eggs a day will help you cover a lot of important things, a few cups of low fat or skim milk, at least serving of red meat for zinc, selenium, and B-vitamins. A drop of tocovit or another vitamin E oil will provide you physiological doses of vitamin E. That's it. Everything else should be obtained from the diet if you eat the right foods. If you have some micronutrient gaps your fatigue will be 100x worse on less calories. Really if the diet is nutritious, the fatigue should be very manageable. Macronutrient ratio (Carb, Protein Fat) should be around 60:30:10 if you want to do low fat.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

My general rule to be healthy is shop around the outer edges of the store. Ignore the isles, that is where the manmade trouble is.

 

[Hans]

How big of an effect do you think supplementing with stuff that supports glucuronidation (cardamom, milk thistle, etc.) can have?

For fat loss? Likely not going to help at all.

 

[mostlylurking]

How much thiamin HCL are you taking? I recommend it often to my clients in the 100s of mg, but someone said recently it is poorly absorbed and suggested other forms.

You might find find Dr. Costantini's information about oral thiamine hcl amounts helpful. His site includes general conversion info re. thiamine hcl by 100mg injection vs the amount of oral thiamine hcl to equal the one 100mg by injection.

"In order to determine the right dose, we usually stick to the following protocol.

In case of recent onset of the disease in patients whose weight is between 50 to 65 kg (110 – 145 lbs), we begin the therapy with two grams of thiamine per day, before and after lunch.

In case the patient weighs more, the dose can be three grams per day, always divided into two administrations.

Oral thiamine should not be taken with juices or any sour beverage, water only.

The equivalent Intramuscular administration of thiamine would be:

• For 2 grams/day orally = 1 x 100mg injectable solution per week;
• For 3 grams/day orally = 2 x 75mg injectable solution per week;
• For 4 grams/day orally = 2 x 100 mg injectable solution per week."

 

[Elie]

I take the pure powder niacinamide from bulksupplements.com. I weighed it out and found a tiny measuring spoon that held that amount. The dose I'm taking is about 90-100mg.

I'm taking 1 gram 2Xday of thiamine hcl. This thiamine absorbs pretty poorly when taken orally so a large amount is required to compensate for that. TTFD thiamine absorbs great but some people (like me) experience bad reactions to it. My bad reaction was caused by my poor glutathione status. Thiamine hcl is known to raise glutathione levels which it did for me. I've got heavy metal poisoning which uses up the glutathione and also thiamine which is why I need to supplement it.

got it. thanks.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“STARCH and GLUCOSE efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat. Eating “complex carbohydrates,” rather than sugars, is a reasonable way to promote obesity. Eating starch, by increasing insulin and lowering the blood sugar, stimulates the appetite, causing a person to eat more, so the effect on fat" -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“People on a standard diet will typically burn 200 or 300 more calories per day when that amount of sugar is added to their diet; but if extra fat is added, too, some of the extra calories are likely to be deposited as fat. It's important to watch the signs of changing heat production as the diet changes." -Ray Peat

 

[Elie]

I don’t eat root vegetables if I want to lose weight, I don’t drink fruit juices either. For me it is things like mozzarella, bone broth and one “corn and soy” free egg a day, liver via braunschweiger, shellfish and maybe some carne asada for beef if I get the craving. It seems marinated meat digests quicker for me. I eat sprouted Ezekiel or a sprouted date manna bread toasted with butter if I get a craving. I have been buying this raw white white whipped honey because it doesn’t taste like honey, but more like frosting instead and has been replacing my sugar intake. I make “Orange Julius” shakes with the zest and the juice of two oranges, a big spoonful of that white honey, a half cup of milk, a pinch of salt and ice and blend it in my Ninja blender, and will drink two a day sometimes. I eat artichoke hearts often, or will steamed an artichoke with drawn butter at night for dinner. I make broccoli soup with chicken bone broth, I eat fresh sweet watermelon with a side of mozzarella, and sometimes Keitt mango. Sometimes I eat a particular cottage cheese with a pinch of salt and a big spoonful of organic marmalade on top. I soak frozen berries overnight and sweeten the concoction with that white honey and pair it with cheese or my egg. It is about pairing things right so you don’t get hungry again soon, and starchy bread is just a shortcut, which adds nothing compared to protein and live raw honey and fruits. Just look at the two plates side by side, fruit and honey and a 3 stale rice cakes with butter, and say there is not going to be a big difference in what your body gives you back eating each plate. Eat what you could forage and hunt for, it is what has been perfectly made for our bodies, pizza and rice cakes not so much. Your body is gonna have to slow down to sort out that business.

Lot of good suggestions.
Will switch to sprouted bread.
Will look for the creamy honey.
I like the Orange Julius recipe.
I am not big on meat or poultry though.

 

[Elie]

For fat loss? Likely not going to help at all.

Too bad. I read on a few threads that this is the preferred way of losing weight, isn't it.
Would be great to increase the ability to "excrete" fatty acids rather than Beta oxidizing them.

 

[Elie]

You might find find Dr. Costantini's information about oral thiamine hcl amounts helpful. His site includes general conversion info re. thiamine hcl by 100mg injection vs the amount of oral thiamine hcl to equal the one 100mg by injection.

"In order to determine the right dose, we usually stick to the following protocol.

In case of recent onset of the disease in patients whose weight is between 50 to 65 kg (110 – 145 lbs), we begin the therapy with two grams of thiamine per day, before and after lunch.

In case the patient weighs more, the dose can be three grams per day, always divided into two administrations.

Oral thiamine should not be taken with juices or any sour beverage, water only.

The equivalent Intramuscular administration of thiamine would be:

• For 2 grams/day orally = 1 x 100mg injectable solution per week;
• For 3 grams/day orally = 2 x 75mg injectable solution per week;
• For 4 grams/day orally = 2 x 100 mg injectable solution per week."

this is quite hepful

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Lot of good suggestions.
Will switch to sprouted bread.
Will look for the creamy honey.
I like the Orange Julius recipe.
I am not big on meat or poultry though.

I am not a big my fan of meat either, and I don’t think it is necessary as long as you have dairy and eggs. Shellfish could be beneficial though for FAT loss.

 

[Elie]

No no

Im sorry

Im doing 14 things at one time and i was cryptic

I think you are in a stressed state
Underfed with a very limited diet that’s not working at all for you

Your metabolism is tanked

I think so too.
Although my energy levels (all through the years of weight gain) have been generally high.
Temp hasn't been consistently bad either.
Mind you, the last month, since Nov hit here in Toronto, energy levels tanked and to top it up i found out my Vitamin D levels are low. So, at this point, yes, stressed and low metabolism for sure.

 

[mostlylurking]

this is quite hepful

You might also find Dr. Costantini's FAQ's helpful.

 

[Elie]

The different types of foods you eat do not determine whether you will lose body fat. Calories in, calories out determine that. But the food choice and the macro ratios you do can make the weight loss process easier. In my experience, high protein and high carb with lower fat foods is the best way to lose weight. It worked well for me. The higher protein intake keeps you more satiated, eating enough carbs helps maintain energy as it provides liver and muscle glycogen for your brain and muscles.

Basically this means you need to eat mostly lean protein, save for egg yolks (to valuable to remove, a few egg yolks is worth having every day). Lean muscle meat such as red meat, low fat cheese or milk or even skim milk, a few whole eggs for protein. Your carbs would be starches like rice, potatoes, sourdough bread, fruit and fruit juices which are all pure carbs. All foods are technically allowed but for weight loss purposes, if you want to go the low fat route, this is how it would be done.

But you need to use a TDEE calculator (easily found on google) to determine how many calories you need and then you can cut off 500-1000 calories off of that. Thats how you lose weight in a reasonable amount of time. You need to know how many calories you are eating so that does mean you are going to have to count calories. No way around that.

Caffeine does slightly boosts metabolic rate so if you use it strategically it can make the process faster. Have caffeine (pills or coffee) every 5 hours from the moment you wake up. I am assume you eat within an hour of waking. I wouldn't go higher than 400mg of caffeine a day. It also helps you feel less hungry.

You just need to watch your micronutrient intake since its harder to get enough when you eat less. 3 eggs a day will help you cover a lot of important things, a few cups of low fat or skim milk, at least serving of red meat for zinc, selenium, and B-vitamins. A drop of tocovit or another vitamin E oil will provide you physiological doses of vitamin E. That's it. Everything else should be obtained from the diet if you eat the right foods. If you have some micronutrient gaps your fatigue will be 100x worse on less calories. Really if the diet is nutritious, the fatigue should be very manageable. Macronutrient ratio (Carb, Protein Fat) should be around 60:30:10 if you want to do low fat.

Good suggestions, however, there is no way I can do a deficit of 500 to 1000 calories. With caffeine and other micros perhaps I can sustain a deficit of 300 calories

 

[redsun]

Good suggestions, however, there is no way I can do a deficit of 500 to 1000 calories. With caffeine and other micros perhaps I can sustain a deficit of 300 calories

Its not a problem it would just take longer.

 

[Vinny]

Be patient and consistent; the weight loss surprised me when I weighed myself after taking the 4 doses/day for 3-4 months. I wasn't taking it for weight loss.

 

[sugarisgreat]

Appreciate your comments. I did follow a mostly OJ / Fruit and milk (or cottage cheese) diet for a long time and still didn't lose weight.
Paradoxically, the folks who succeed wit the "croissant" diet consume starch and fat.
I super appreciate you asking "what did your diet look like yesterday" - the mark of an actively engaged detective.

I don't remember everything, but from what I recall
morning
half a banana + about 40-50 g gouda cheese + apple
3 rice cakes (5g carbs ea) + about 5g butter on each
Later - banana cake my partner made from old bananas and oat flour
2 servings of coffee

Late lunch was a real treat, but I might disappoint you :)
I discovered my favorite type of pizza to date - Turkish "Pizza" type of a dish, called Pide - super yummy baked thin tasty crust (wheat) with cheddar cheese, goat cheese and spinach (generous servings)
Turkish Coffee

Evening - balance of that Pide
A couple of servings of what you suggested - half a cup of milk (2%) with instant coffee (and a tbsp sugar in ea serving)
A bit of apple cider and OJ

paradoxically I weighted 0.5 lb. lower this morning at 24.5 (always weigh myself at approx. the same time).

I will strive to limit wheat and continue with lots of coffee and incorporate @mostlylurking suggestion, after I seek out more clarification.

My two cents:
Chronic dieter here, age 52, never really over weight, just thought I should always be thin.
A few years ago I had had it with eating 1,200 calories a day, so I started following Taramander's gut microbiome protocol.
I use a lot of his suggestions and also "FoodforGut" and "Custom Probiotics" blends in high doses.
It is all about the gut (my opinion). I started using niacin when "Covid" started (really helped) and now have switched to NMN powder, which is also helpful.
I can eat a lot more now (but try to avoid PUFA) and am a healthy weight (not too thin, not too fat)-most of my diet is carbs with gelatin/glycine and sometimes protein powder made into pudding. I don't like meat unless it is on the BBQ or at a restaurant.
I would follow Taramander on this. He has a twitter account, podcast, and posts on this forum.
I also use ATP Pro digestive enzymes if I eat a high fat meal with PUFA (not too often), I will use orlistat and vitamin E. I use progesterone too.

 

[Hans]

Too bad. I read on a few threads that this is the preferred way of losing weight, isn't it.
Would be great to increase the ability to "excrete" fatty acids rather than Beta oxidizing them.

Yes for sure. It will just take a whole lot longer. Plus, we're always burning fat. Going into a deficit doesn't mean we're burning more fat. We're still burning more or less the same amount of calories. We're just getting it from fat stores vs from food. Plus, during sleep we're burning the snot out of those fats.

 

[Energizer]

Edit: Agree with other posters about the coffee instead of caffeine powder

 

[David PS]

Edit: Agree with other posters about the coffee instead of caffeine powder

Coffee has other things in it that make it more healthy than just caffeine powder.
Coffee, Caffeine, and Health

A key issue in research on caffeine and coffee is that coffee contains hundreds of other biologically active phytochemicals, including polyphenols such as chlorogenic acid and lignans, the alkaloid trigonelline, melanoidins formed during roasting, and modest amounts of magnesium, potassium, and vitamin B3 (niacin).8 These coffee compounds may reduce oxidative stress,9 improve the gut microbiome,10 and modulate glucose and fat metabolism.11,12 In contrast, the diterpene cafestol, which is present in unfiltered coffee, increases serum cholesterol levels.13 Thus, research findings for coffee and other dietary sources of caffeine should be interpreted cautiously, since effects may not be due to caffeine itself.