Gut Protocol For Insulin Resistance, Metabolism, And Energy

Tarmander

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,509
I wanted to share this amazing gut protocol that I have been on for the last few months (results below)

I am in a unique position as a type 1 diabetic in that my pancreas produces little to no insulin on its own. This gives me an insight into what supplements and herbs do to insulin needs in both the short term and long term

If I notice a supplement lowers the amount of insulin I need, then theoretically it could lower the amount of insulin a normal person would produce. Perhaps even lowering any insulin resistance, and increasing metabolism as well

Everyone is different and results will be different

The protocol comes from Ken Lassesen and was originally developed for CFS. I think it can help anyone experiencing weight gain and metabolism slow down which is very common on a RP diet.

Read the full article here: Change Agents: Ken Lassesen on Prescription and Herbal Antibiotics to Alter the Gut Flora in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - Health Rising

The protocol works by taking an herb/supplement/probiotic for a week and then shifting to a new one.
This shifts the gut microbiome each week in a healthier direction. Think muscle confusion. By shifting constantly, you never give your muscles the chance to plateau out.

By shifting the supplement each week, the unhealthy bacteria do not get a chance to gain resistance to a substance

Here is the protocol summarized, but the article is worth reading, as well as the comments:

-200 mg/day of minocycline (as a neuroprotector — for those can persuade MDs to write an ongoing prescription) – on going

Week 1: Haritaki: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 2: Prescript-Assist: Work up to 2 capsules per day then stop
Week 3: Tulsi: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 4: Align or a 100% Bifidobacterium probiotic (preferably with mainly Bifidobacterium Infantis)
Week 5: Neem: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 6: Mutaflor or other E.Coli Probioitcs (work up to 2x recommended dosage)
Week 7: Lactobacillus Reuteri (work up to 2x recommended dosage)
Week 8: Take a break — ideally review your notes to find what had the greatest effect and use that for 2 weeks, working your way down the list for effectiveness
Week 9: Turmeric (breaks down a form of coagulation that seems to occur with CFS) – up to 10 capsules per day. If you have piracetam, also take that.

Second Pass
Repeat the above, with the following additions. I excluded these in the first pass because they can, by themselves, produce massive herx.

Week 1: NAC and EDTA – these are biofilm breakers, and you should repeat every 3 weeks of this cycle in addition to whatever else you are doing. Biofilms are “domed cities of bacteria” – the antibiotics kill the outer level and the dead bacteria bodies protect the inhabitants.
Week 2: Bromelain, Nattokinease, Serrapetase, Lumbrokinease – these are antibiotic potentators. They in general dissolve fibrin deposits allowing antibiotics to penetrate deeper (up to 10x greater concentration in tissue). Bacteria will often trigger fibrin so they have their own little world shielded off by the fibrin. Repeat every four weeks in addition to whatever else you are doing.
Week 3: Boswellia, Myrth – these are anti-inflamnatories. Inflammation keeps antibiotics away from the bacteria (just like fibrin and biofilms) — you want to reduce the inflammation. Repeat every two weeks in addition to whatever else you are doing.

Over time items:
If the above does not work well, i.e. zero herx and zero improvement — the following should be tried:

Week A: Olive Leaf Extract
Week B: Worm Wood
Week C: Monolaurin

I made some changes to the protocol. I did not take Minocycline throughout. I did 3 different antibiotics for a week, spaced a month apart. (alldaychemist.com)

Erythromycin 250mg x2/day for 1 week
Minocycline 100mg x2/day for 1 week
Azithromycin 500mg x1/day for 4 days (1000mg on the first day)

I also did both passes at the same time.

Results:

•In December I was taking 30 units of Tresiba (long acting insulin) per day. As of today I am taking 18 units of Tresiba. Last time I took that little insulin I was a teenager with a teenage metabolism.

•I lost 7-8 pounds. I expect to slowly drop weight as time goes on as the low amount of insulin would suggest it. Losing around 2 pounds per month it seems. The subjective feel of weight loss has changed. Before I would lose a few pounds and my body wanted to put it right back on. It was a battle. That is the opposite now. My body wants to shed weight and I have to work at keeping it.

•During this trial, I had to consume copious amounts of sugar to keep my blood sugar elevated as I brought insulin levels down. Usually consuming 64 oz of apple juice a day in addition to my regular diet (see below). Any problems with pure sugar seem to be gone.

•Massive increase in energy. Walking 1.5 hours per day with no exercise intolerance. I used to have insomnia whenever I would exercise. That is gone

•brain power increased on average, although some of the substances made that worse.

Here are my notes for each substance:

•Erythromycin:
Gave great energy and did not interfere with sleep. Caused loose stool. Lowered blood sugar massively, almost as much as the Neem. Great muscle tone. Improved posture even.

•Minocycline: Also gave great energy but insomnia too. I will never take Mino before going to bed if I want to sleep even a little. Made my body feel hollow, kind of strung out. Better and tighter skin, and better muscle tone. Boswellia improved symptoms

•Azithromycin: Caused insomnia and gave energy like Mino, but not the hollow feeling. Made scalp itchy and hair fall out a bit. While it was not as bad as Mino, Boswellia did not improve the symptoms so in some ways it was worse.

•Haritake(https://amzn.to/33CXINM): Nausea at first. Very hungry. Intense mental effects that went away after a couple days. Very odd feelings, like it was summer when I was a kid. Body felt heavy, immobile, fell asleep quickly. Rash popped up on my hand (yeast?). Lowered blood sugar

•Prescript assist(https://amzn.to/3alu0zz): I found an old bottle of this at a healthfood store. Not sure if the new formula will give these same effects. Felt tired, dizzy, kind of spacey and loopy. Very deep sleep…like sinking into the ocean

•Tulsi(https://amzn.to/2QBqaKw): Increased muscles big time. All my exercises were much easier. Felt militant, disciplined, emotionless, calm, focused. Didn’t improve sleep but didn’t make it worse. Lowered blood sugar big time. May have caused a hemorrhoid after 5 days of taking max dosage. Possible fungal problem as pinky toe had athlete’s food which went away after cessation.

•Bifido(https://amzn.to/2xigmyw): I took Jarrow Bifido for this. Did not like at first. Caused anxiety and emotionality. But after the first couple days, had the best brain boost I have ever had. Mind felt flow like, absolutely on fire. Memorization great. On the verge of being too strong for the mind, almost uncomfortable but not quite. Blood sugars better. Body seemed to look a little more feminine oddly. I had just come off tulsi, which masculinized me, and the bifido seem to make me more curvy and feminine. Weird I know but that was the sense I got. Didn’t cause gyno or anything. The bifido probiotics are all very different. I tried Align before this back in November and it did not do these things. So depending on which bifido you get, you may get very different results.

•Neem(https://amzn.to/2Ucghp3) : Lost weight quicker. Nuclear bomb for blood sugars. I was constantly chugging apple juice and eating fruit snacks to keep my blood sugar up. Started waking up at 5am and unable to get back to sleep. Was good at first. Puffed up muscles, cleared my skin. As time went on, I got less and less sleep. Couldn’t fall asleep, couldn’t stay asleep. Had some nights I slept 2 hours. Started to feel strung out, tired, lack of sleep drunk. Brain felt like it had too much MSG. After stopping Neem, the effects stayed. I am never ******* taking this ***t again. It has been weeks since stopping and I am still struggling with this a bit. Avoid for me.

•Mutaflor(Mutaflor): Usually improves ability to sleep in (like a teenager!). First couple days gives gas and loose stool. Lowers blood sugars so better to take in the morning. Gives a serotonin feeling to my brain if I take a lot of it.

•Lactobacillus Reuteri (https://amzn.to/3alLrj6) : Did not feel anything. I noticed the one I bought was super low dose, and shipped without an ice pack (heat sensitive). May try again with a different brand.

•Turmeric(https://amzn.to/3dlCzMo) : Didn’t notice much

•Boswellia (https://amzn.to/2xigyOg) : I ended up using this for most of the protocol. It lowered the symptoms of insomnia for the antibiotics and a bit for Neem. Really grew to like Boswellia.

•Systemic Enzymes(https://amzn.to/2J3SsZU and https://amzn.to/394vM6w) : I tried Natto, Serra, and Lumbrokinase. Natto and Serra really did not do much but oh my god I love Lumbrokinase. Gave that empty flat stomach feeling you get when you fast, but I was eating. Cleared my mind. I take 6 pills per day, 2 before each meal. I know I was supposed to rotate but I loved it so much I just stayed on it.

•NAC and EDTA: These seemed to riskiest part of the protocol and I stayed away. NAC also contraindicated from one of my microbiome tests.

Other notes from protocol:

•Any substance that did me good, felt like crap the first day or two. Usually emotional, anxiety, sleep problems. The one substance that seriously did me wrong was Neem. It felt good the first few days, and slowly became a nightmare. I have noticed this pattern with other substances I take. If it feels good right away, usually not a good sign…at least in this microbiome world.

•After the Neem, I did not do anything for a week or two and the insulin results stuck. I didnt need more insulin. That sometimes happens if you take something hormonal. Meaning I would need less insulin while on the hormone (better metabolism?) then after going off would need more insulin again (nope)

•did not try the wormwood, olive leaf, or monolaurin. I have done all three before and they have various effects.

•Yeast seemed to be a problem in two instances. The hand rash and athletes foot. When I do another pass. I may add in a week of oregano oil and caprilic acid.

Confounding Factors:

These factors played a role in all this, but not sure to what extent

•My regular diet in December was meat, potatoes/rice, and a little refried beans each meal

My diet shifted in January to

breakfast: Rice and green beans
Lunch: meat and green beans
Dinner: Rice and green beans/broccoli/cauliflower

So three meals of meat a day down to one. That is a confounding factor that may muddy the results of the protocol itself.

•I have been nebulizing 100mg of glutathione everyday for 1 year +

•I started nicotine patches in November

•In February I started using a heat lamp daily

•I went off thyroid in late Jan/early Feb

•I took Pepcid for a month in Jan

•Stopped taking daily betaine HCL in December

In conclusion:

While this has been very rocky at times, especially with insomnia, it is a massive success.

When I first started the Peat life, I was crashing from too much endurance exercise and job burnout. I was scarfing down ice cream and orange juice like mad.

My insulin needs sky rocketed (50 units of long term insulin a day!) and I gained 50 pounds. That was 5-6 years ago. I have tried a myriad of ways to get my metabolism rolling and lose weight without dieting to no success.

Finally, I am on the path to losing weight, eating as much sugar as I want, and being able to exercise again.

Focusing on shifting the microbiome seems to give permanent results. Ray Peat is right about keeping gut bacteria down...but it's not just an important aspect...it may be the most crucial part of his writings

By tinkering with this protocol, I can assure sleep, energy, and less insulin needs.

In addition, by not taking any substance for longer than a couple weeks, I don't develop tolerance or get bad side effects.

Other than the antibiotics, EDTA, and NAC, this protocol is very low risk. Any mineral/vitamin imbalances you may get from long term use of a substance is not a factor.

I hope you enjoyed this post. I put a lot of work and note taking into this. (full disclosure, if you get value from this post, links above are affiliate).

I will do a podcast on this in a few weeks if you are a better listener then reader, like me. Thanks for reading and big props to Ken for originally creating this
 
Last edited:

sugarbabe

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
3,347
Wow @Tarmander ! That is a long protocol!

That's great you are so connected to your body you can tell what is doing what. You mention some things at the end I need to ask about! You did not say what effects those had? How much had the glutathione, heat lamp, nicotine (!), going off thyroid, and using pepcid for a month effected the results? I know doing light for me was always the best bang for any buck I could ever do for my health. I have not done any gut protocols and now maintaining a good weight and blood sugar levels despite a high fat and carb diet. But LIGHT! It's so huge people always downplay it.

Also would like to see estimates for caloric intake between the two different diets and how that can also effect weight and insulin needs. Mutaflor seems to have helped you a lot as far as sleep. You are brave for trying out neem! I couldn't even try. That's an exotic one. One gardeners use like a pesticide.
 

taralynne

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
37
I wanted to share this amazing gut protocol that I have been on for the last few months (results below)

I am in a unique position as a type 1 diabetic in that my pancreas produces little to no insulin on its own. This gives me an insight into what supplements and herbs do to insulin needs in both the short term and long term

If I notice a supplement lowers the amount of insulin I need, then theoretically it could lower the amount of insulin a normal person would produce. Perhaps even lowering any insulin resistance, and increasing metabolism as well

Everyone is different and results will be different

The protocol comes from Ken Lassesen and was originally developed for CFS. I think it can help anyone experiencing weight gain and metabolism slow down which is very common on a RP diet.

Read the full article here: Change Agents: Ken Lassesen on Prescription and Herbal Antibiotics to Alter the Gut Flora in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - Health Rising

The protocol works by taking an herb/supplement/probiotic for a week and then shifting to a new one.
This shifts the gut microbiome each week in a healthier direction. Think muscle confusion. By shifting constantly, you never give your muscles the chance to plateau out.

By shifting the supplement each week, the unhealthy bacteria do not get a chance to gain resistance to a substance

Here is the protocol summarized, but the article is worth reading, as well as the comments:

-200 mg/day of minocycline (as a neuroprotector — for those can persuade MDs to write an ongoing prescription) – on going

Week 1: Haritaki: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 2: Prescript-Assist: Work up to 2 capsules per day then stop
Week 3: Tulsi: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 4: Align or a 100% Bifidobacterium probiotic (preferably with mainly Bifidobacterium Infantis)
Week 5: Neem: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 6: Mutaflor or other E.Coli Probioitcs (work up to 2x recommended dosage)
Week 7: Lactobacillus Reuteri (work up to 2x recommended dosage)
Week 8: Take a break — ideally review your notes to find what had the greatest effect and use that for 2 weeks, working your way down the list for effectiveness
Week 9: Turmeric (breaks down a form of coagulation that seems to occur with CFS) – up to 10 capsules per day. If you have piracetam, also take that.

Second Pass
Repeat the above, with the following additions. I excluded these in the first pass because they can, by themselves, produce massive herx.

Week 1: NAC and EDTA – these are biofilm breakers, and you should repeat every 3 weeks of this cycle in addition to whatever else you are doing. Biofilms are “domed cities of bacteria” – the antibiotics kill the outer level and the dead bacteria bodies protect the inhabitants.
Week 2: Bromelain, Nattokinease, Serrapetase, Lumbrokinease – these are antibiotic potentators. They in general dissolve fibrin deposits allowing antibiotics to penetrate deeper (up to 10x greater concentration in tissue). Bacteria will often trigger fibrin so they have their own little world shielded off by the fibrin. Repeat every four weeks in addition to whatever else you are doing.
Week 3: Boswellia, Myrth – these are anti-inflamnatories. Inflammation keeps antibiotics away from the bacteria (just like fibrin and biofilms) — you want to reduce the inflammation. Repeat every two weeks in addition to whatever else you are doing.

Over time items:
If the above does not work well, i.e. zero herx and zero improvement — the following should be tried:

Week A: Olive Leaf Extract
Week B: Worm Wood
Week C: Monolaurin

I made some changes to the protocol. I did not take Minocycline throughout. I did 3 different antibiotics for a week, spaced a month apart. (alldaychemist.com)

Erythromycin 250mg x2/day for 1 week
Minocycline 100mg x2/day for 1 week
Azithromycin 500mg x1/day for 4 days (1000mg on the first day)

I also did both passes at the same time.

Results:

•In December I was taking 30 units of Tresiba (long acting insulin) per day. As of today I am taking 18 units of Tresiba. Last time I took that little insulin I was a teenager with a teenage metabolism.

•I lost 7-8 pounds. I expect to slowly drop weight as time goes on as the low amount of insulin would suggest it. Losing around 2 pounds per month it seems. The subjective feel of weight loss has changed. Before I would lose a few pounds and my body wanted to put it right back on. It was a battle. That is the opposite now. My body wants to shed weight and I have to work at keeping it.

•During this trial, I had to consume copious amounts of sugar to keep my blood sugar elevated as I brought insulin levels down. Usually consuming 64 oz of apple juice a day in addition to my regular diet (see below). Any problems with pure sugar seem to be gone.

•Massive increase in energy. Walking 1.5 hours per day with no exercise intolerance. I used to have insomnia whenever I would exercise. That is gone

•brain power increased on average, although some of the substances made that worse.

Here are my notes for each substance:

•Erythromycin:
Gave great energy and did not interfere with sleep. Caused loose stool. Lowered blood sugar massively, almost as much as the Neem. Great muscle tone. Improved posture even.

•Minocycline: Also gave great energy but insomnia too. I will never take Mino before going to bed if I want to sleep even a little. Made my body feel hollow, kind of strung out. Better and tighter skin, and better muscle tone. Boswellia improved symptoms

•Azithromycin: Caused insomnia and gave energy like Mino, but not the hollow feeling. Made scalp itchy and hair fall out a bit. While it was not as bad as Mino, Boswellia did not improve the symptoms so in some ways it was worse.

•Haritake(https://amzn.to/33CXINM): Nausea at first. Very hungry. Intense mental effects that went away after a couple days. Very odd feelings, like it was summer when I was a kid. Body felt heavy, immobile, fell asleep quickly. Rash popped up on my hand (yeast?). Lowered blood sugar

•Prescript assist(https://amzn.to/3alu0zz): I found an old bottle of this at a healthfood store. Not sure if the new formula will give these same effects. Felt tired, dizzy, kind of spacey and loopy. Very deep sleep…like sinking into the ocean

•Tulsi(https://amzn.to/2QBqaKw): Increased muscles big time. All my exercises were much easier. Felt militant, disciplined, emotionless, calm, focused. Didn’t improve sleep but didn’t make it worse. Lowered blood sugar big time. May have caused a hemorrhoid after 5 days of taking max dosage. Possible fungal problem as pinky toe had athlete’s food which went away after cessation.

•Bifido(https://amzn.to/2xigmyw): I took Jarrow Bifido for this. Did not like at first. Caused anxiety and emotionality. But after the first couple days, had the best brain boost I have ever had. Mind felt flow like, absolutely on fire. Memorization great. On the verge of being too strong for the mind, almost uncomfortable but not quite. Blood sugars better. Body seemed to look a little more feminine oddly. I had just come off tulsi, which masculinized me, and the bifido seem to make me more curvy and feminine. Weird I know but that was the sense I got. Didn’t cause gyno or anything. The bifido probiotics are all very different. I tried Align before this back in November and it did not do these things. So depending on which bifido you get, you may get very different results.

•Neem(https://amzn.to/2Ucghp3) : Lost weight quicker. Nuclear bomb for blood sugars. I was constantly chugging apple juice and eating fruit snacks to keep my blood sugar up. Started waking up at 5am and unable to get back to sleep. Was good at first. Puffed up muscles, cleared my skin. As time went on, I got less and less sleep. Couldn’t fall asleep, couldn’t stay asleep. Had some nights I slept 2 hours. Started to feel strung out, tired, lack of sleep drunk. Brain felt like it had too much MSG. After stopping Neem, the effects stayed. I am never ******* taking this ***t again. It has been weeks since stopping and I am still struggling with this a bit. Avoid for me.

•Mutaflor(Mutaflor): Usually improves ability to sleep in (like a teenager!). First couple days gives gas and loose stool. Lowers blood sugars so better to take in the morning. Gives a serotonin feeling to my brain if I take a lot of it.

•Lactobacillus Reuteri (https://amzn.to/3alLrj6) : Did not feel anything. I noticed the one I bought was super low dose, and shipped without an ice pack (heat sensitive). May try again with a different brand.

•Turmeric(https://amzn.to/3dlCzMo) : Didn’t notice much

•Boswellia (https://amzn.to/2xigyOg) : I ended up using this for most of the protocol. It lowered the symptoms of insomnia for the antibiotics and a bit for Neem. Really grew to like Boswellia.

•Systemic Enzymes(https://amzn.to/2J3SsZU and https://amzn.to/394vM6w) : I tried Natto, Serra, and Lumbrokinase. Natto and Serra really did not do much but oh my god I love Lumbrokinase. Gave that empty flat stomach feeling you get when you fast, but I was eating. Cleared my mind. I take 6 pills per day, 2 before each meal. I know I was supposed to rotate but I loved it so much I just stayed on it.

•NAC and EDTA: These seemed to riskiest part of the protocol and I stayed away. NAC also contraindicated from one of my microbiome tests.

Other notes from protocol:

•Any substance that did me good, felt like crap the first day or two. Usually emotional, anxiety, sleep problems. The one substance that seriously did me wrong was Neem. It felt good the first few days, and slowly became a nightmare. I have noticed this pattern with other substances I take. If it feels good right away, usually not a good sign…at least in this microbiome world.

•After the Neem, I did not do anything for a week or two and the insulin results stuck. I didnt need more insulin. That sometimes happens if you take something hormonal. Meaning I would need less insulin while on the hormone (better metabolism?) then after going off would need more insulin again (nope)

•did not try the wormwood, olive leaf, or monolaurin. I have done all three before and they have various effects.

•Yeast seemed to be a problem in two instances. The hand rash and athletes foot. When I do another pass. I may add in a week of oregano oil and caprilic acid.

Confounding Factors:

These factors played a role in all this, but not sure to what extent

•My regular diet in December was meat, potatoes/rice, and a little refried beans each meal

My diet shifted in January to

breakfast: Rice and green beans
Lunch: meat and green beans
Dinner: Rice and green beans/broccoli/cauliflower

So three meals of meat a day down to one. That is a confounding factor that may muddy the results of the protocol itself.

•I have been nebulizing 100mg of glutathione everyday for 1 year +

•I started nicotine patches in November

•In February I started using a heat lamp daily

•I went off thyroid in late Jan/early Feb

•I took Pepcid for a month in Jan

•Stopped taking daily betaine HCL in December

In conclusion:

While this has been very rocky at times, especially with insomnia, it is a massive success.

When I first started the Peat life, I was crashing from too much endurance exercise and job burnout. I was scarfing down ice cream and orange juice like mad.

My insulin needs sky rocketed (50 units of long term insulin a day!) and I gained 50 pounds. That was 5-6 years ago. I have tried a myriad of ways to get my metabolism rolling and lose weight without dieting to no success.

Finally, I am on the path to losing weight, eating as much sugar as I want, and being able to exercise again.

Focusing on shifting the microbiome seems to give permanent results. Ray Peat is right about keeping gut bacteria down...but it's not just an important aspect...it may be the most crucial part of his writings

By tinkering with this protocol, I can assure sleep, energy, and less insulin needs.

In addition, by not taking any substance for longer than a couple weeks, I don't develop tolerance or get bad side effects.

Other than the antibiotics, EDTA, and NAC, this protocol is very low risk. Any mineral/vitamin imbalances you may get from long term use of a substance is not a factor.

I hope you enjoyed this post. I put a lot of work and note taking into this. (full disclosure, if you get value from this post, links above are affiliate).

I will do a podcast on this in a few weeks if you are a better listener then reader, like me. Thanks for reading
That's fantastic! Thank you for sharing... I have been struggling with weight & gut issues as well since I started this process but gut issues predated finding Ray Peat by many years. I have tried all kinds of things, some seemed to work well but results were only temporary and some did not work at all. This seems to be a pretty comprehensive approach and may be something I need to consider.
 

milkboi

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
1,402
Location
Germany
Very interesting. I‘ll probably give this a try sometime this year. How much did this protocol cost you in total approximately?
 

Tarmander

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,509
Wow @Tarmander ! That is a long protocol!

That's great you are so connected to your body you can tell what is doing what. You mention some things at the end I need to ask about! You did not say what effects those had? How much had the glutathione, heat lamp, nicotine (!), going off thyroid, and using pepcid for a month effected the results? I know doing light for me was always the best bang for any buck I could ever do for my health. I have not done any gut protocols and now maintaining a good weight and blood sugar levels despite a high fat and carb diet. But LIGHT! It's so huge people always downplay it.

Also would like to see estimates for caloric intake between the two different diets and how that can also effect weight and insulin needs. Mutaflor seems to have helped you a lot as far as sleep. You are brave for trying out neem! I couldn't even try. That's an exotic one. One gardeners use like a pesticide.
Thanks for reading!

The other things I take are mostly for asthma issues. I was really focusing on metabolism, blood sugar, and exercise ability in this.

The only confounding factor I think may really mess with the results, is the diet change, because of how closely it aligned with getting on this protocol. Doing less meat is a big deal

The other things were started either before or after, and I did not notice much change in blood sugar values from those. But I wanted to be at full disclosure in case someone wanted to try this.

It could be nicotine is somehow helping the weight loss. I was on it for two months before starting this and my weight wasn't budging, but you never know, so I put it in there.

The light is great, but again I started it after doing this for a month or more. My insulin needs had already gone from 30 per day to 24ish. If my insulin needs were on a graph, it would be a linear line down starting when I first took erythromycin in early Jan.

This is what my cronometer looks like on a normal day with usual variations in rice and sugar intake. Sometimes I sub in a couple beef hot dogs for the beef patty. They have higher Pufa

upload_2020-3-21_12-50-55.png

upload_2020-3-21_12-51-16.png

I also put a little ionic calcium in my water(100-300mg per day), but overall it's a low calcium diet
 

Tarmander

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,509
Very interesting. I‘ll probably give this a try sometime this year. How much did this protocol cost you in total approximately?
antibiotics were probably 60ish
herbs were 30
probiotics were the most expensive. Mutaflor is pricey. Probably around 200-300 all together
lumbo, boswellia, turmeric 100$ maybe (but I take ***t tons of lumbro spending almost 100$ a month on that alone)
capsules, capsule filling machine, etc

You're looking at $400-500 to get everything and maybe another $150 for each pass

You can save by buying bulk antibiotics
 

Tarmander

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,509
Wow @Tarmander ! That is a long protocol!

That's great you are so connected to your body you can tell what is doing what. You mention some things at the end I need to ask about! You did not say what effects those had? How much had the glutathione, heat lamp, nicotine (!), going off thyroid, and using pepcid for a month effected the results? I know doing light for me was always the best bang for any buck I could ever do for my health. I have not done any gut protocols and now maintaining a good weight and blood sugar levels despite a high fat and carb diet. But LIGHT! It's so huge people always downplay it.

Also would like to see estimates for caloric intake between the two different diets and how that can also effect weight and insulin needs. Mutaflor seems to have helped you a lot as far as sleep. You are brave for trying out neem! I couldn't even try. That's an exotic one. One gardeners use like a pesticide.
This was the previous diet

upload_2020-3-21_13-3-22.png

upload_2020-3-21_13-3-58.png

I was always craving cookies and things on this diet...so there was a lot more grazing on other foods
 

Tarmander

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,509
Incredible write up man, and thank you so much for sharing. I will come back tomorrow and check this out thoroughly.

You said :"•Neem(https://amzn.to/2Ucghp3) : Lost weight quicker. Nuclear bomb for blood sugars. "

This is the first I have ever heard about Neem for lowering sugars?!?!
yeah man...one of the most powerful things I have used that lowers sugars that much...high dose chromium and gymnema are similar

Not all people react that negatively to Neem. If you look at reviews for different Neem products, some people really like it, so I would not automatically nix it. Could be my liver just can't handle it or something
 

sugarisgreat

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
72
Thank you for posting this. Do you think one could use doxy as the antibiotic instead of minocycline (all day chemist takes so long)?

Also-am I right in understanding you ate approx. 2800 calories + any cookies or sugar you added?
 

Tarmander

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,509
Thank you for posting this. Do you think one could use doxy as the antibiotic instead of minocycline (all day chemist takes so long)?

Also-am I right in understanding you ate approx. 2800 calories + any cookies or sugar you added?
The cookies and sugar I added were more in the 2100 calorie diet. Probably did not go over 3k calories too often

The 2800 calorie diet satisfies me pretty well and I don't snack as often

Doxy will definitely work, although unlike Mino it cannot penetrate the bbb. Might be a little worse on your teeth too
 

sugarisgreat

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
72
Thank you for taking the time to post your protocol and answering my questions.
I believe you are the member who gave the information about Mutaflor (which I use now and works well, but I think I still have metabolic syndrome because if I up my calories much past 1300-I will gain weight).
 

Tarmander

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,509
Thank you for taking the time to post your protocol and answering my questions.
I believe you are the member who gave the information about Mutaflor (which I use now and works well, but I think I still have metabolic syndrome because if I up my calories much past 1300-I will gain weight).
my pleasure

Perhaps experimenting with some of these herbs and other probiotics you can start upping those calories.
 

Ponylover

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
7
Thanks for sharing. What are your thoughts on the low va diet now? Why do you include broccoli in your diet?
 

Hans

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
3,240
I wanted to share this amazing gut protocol that I have been on for the last few months (results below)

I am in a unique position as a type 1 diabetic in that my pancreas produces little to no insulin on its own. This gives me an insight into what supplements and herbs do to insulin needs in both the short term and long term

If I notice a supplement lowers the amount of insulin I need, then theoretically it could lower the amount of insulin a normal person would produce. Perhaps even lowering any insulin resistance, and increasing metabolism as well

Everyone is different and results will be different

The protocol comes from Ken Lassesen and was originally developed for CFS. I think it can help anyone experiencing weight gain and metabolism slow down which is very common on a RP diet.

Read the full article here: Change Agents: Ken Lassesen on Prescription and Herbal Antibiotics to Alter the Gut Flora in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - Health Rising

The protocol works by taking an herb/supplement/probiotic for a week and then shifting to a new one.
This shifts the gut microbiome each week in a healthier direction. Think muscle confusion. By shifting constantly, you never give your muscles the chance to plateau out.

By shifting the supplement each week, the unhealthy bacteria do not get a chance to gain resistance to a substance

Here is the protocol summarized, but the article is worth reading, as well as the comments:

-200 mg/day of minocycline (as a neuroprotector — for those can persuade MDs to write an ongoing prescription) – on going

Week 1: Haritaki: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 2: Prescript-Assist: Work up to 2 capsules per day then stop
Week 3: Tulsi: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 4: Align or a 100% Bifidobacterium probiotic (preferably with mainly Bifidobacterium Infantis)
Week 5: Neem: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 6: Mutaflor or other E.Coli Probioitcs (work up to 2x recommended dosage)
Week 7: Lactobacillus Reuteri (work up to 2x recommended dosage)
Week 8: Take a break — ideally review your notes to find what had the greatest effect and use that for 2 weeks, working your way down the list for effectiveness
Week 9: Turmeric (breaks down a form of coagulation that seems to occur with CFS) – up to 10 capsules per day. If you have piracetam, also take that.

Second Pass
Repeat the above, with the following additions. I excluded these in the first pass because they can, by themselves, produce massive herx.

Week 1: NAC and EDTA – these are biofilm breakers, and you should repeat every 3 weeks of this cycle in addition to whatever else you are doing. Biofilms are “domed cities of bacteria” – the antibiotics kill the outer level and the dead bacteria bodies protect the inhabitants.
Week 2: Bromelain, Nattokinease, Serrapetase, Lumbrokinease – these are antibiotic potentators. They in general dissolve fibrin deposits allowing antibiotics to penetrate deeper (up to 10x greater concentration in tissue). Bacteria will often trigger fibrin so they have their own little world shielded off by the fibrin. Repeat every four weeks in addition to whatever else you are doing.
Week 3: Boswellia, Myrth – these are anti-inflamnatories. Inflammation keeps antibiotics away from the bacteria (just like fibrin and biofilms) — you want to reduce the inflammation. Repeat every two weeks in addition to whatever else you are doing.

Over time items:
If the above does not work well, i.e. zero herx and zero improvement — the following should be tried:

Week A: Olive Leaf Extract
Week B: Worm Wood
Week C: Monolaurin

I made some changes to the protocol. I did not take Minocycline throughout. I did 3 different antibiotics for a week, spaced a month apart. (alldaychemist.com)

Erythromycin 250mg x2/day for 1 week
Minocycline 100mg x2/day for 1 week
Azithromycin 500mg x1/day for 4 days (1000mg on the first day)

I also did both passes at the same time.

Results:

•In December I was taking 30 units of Tresiba (long acting insulin) per day. As of today I am taking 18 units of Tresiba. Last time I took that little insulin I was a teenager with a teenage metabolism.

•I lost 7-8 pounds. I expect to slowly drop weight as time goes on as the low amount of insulin would suggest it. Losing around 2 pounds per month it seems. The subjective feel of weight loss has changed. Before I would lose a few pounds and my body wanted to put it right back on. It was a battle. That is the opposite now. My body wants to shed weight and I have to work at keeping it.

•During this trial, I had to consume copious amounts of sugar to keep my blood sugar elevated as I brought insulin levels down. Usually consuming 64 oz of apple juice a day in addition to my regular diet (see below). Any problems with pure sugar seem to be gone.

•Massive increase in energy. Walking 1.5 hours per day with no exercise intolerance. I used to have insomnia whenever I would exercise. That is gone

•brain power increased on average, although some of the substances made that worse.

Here are my notes for each substance:

•Erythromycin:
Gave great energy and did not interfere with sleep. Caused loose stool. Lowered blood sugar massively, almost as much as the Neem. Great muscle tone. Improved posture even.

•Minocycline: Also gave great energy but insomnia too. I will never take Mino before going to bed if I want to sleep even a little. Made my body feel hollow, kind of strung out. Better and tighter skin, and better muscle tone. Boswellia improved symptoms

•Azithromycin: Caused insomnia and gave energy like Mino, but not the hollow feeling. Made scalp itchy and hair fall out a bit. While it was not as bad as Mino, Boswellia did not improve the symptoms so in some ways it was worse.

•Haritake(https://amzn.to/33CXINM): Nausea at first. Very hungry. Intense mental effects that went away after a couple days. Very odd feelings, like it was summer when I was a kid. Body felt heavy, immobile, fell asleep quickly. Rash popped up on my hand (yeast?). Lowered blood sugar

•Prescript assist(https://amzn.to/3alu0zz): I found an old bottle of this at a healthfood store. Not sure if the new formula will give these same effects. Felt tired, dizzy, kind of spacey and loopy. Very deep sleep…like sinking into the ocean

•Tulsi(https://amzn.to/2QBqaKw): Increased muscles big time. All my exercises were much easier. Felt militant, disciplined, emotionless, calm, focused. Didn’t improve sleep but didn’t make it worse. Lowered blood sugar big time. May have caused a hemorrhoid after 5 days of taking max dosage. Possible fungal problem as pinky toe had athlete’s food which went away after cessation.

•Bifido(https://amzn.to/2xigmyw): I took Jarrow Bifido for this. Did not like at first. Caused anxiety and emotionality. But after the first couple days, had the best brain boost I have ever had. Mind felt flow like, absolutely on fire. Memorization great. On the verge of being too strong for the mind, almost uncomfortable but not quite. Blood sugars better. Body seemed to look a little more feminine oddly. I had just come off tulsi, which masculinized me, and the bifido seem to make me more curvy and feminine. Weird I know but that was the sense I got. Didn’t cause gyno or anything. The bifido probiotics are all very different. I tried Align before this back in November and it did not do these things. So depending on which bifido you get, you may get very different results.

•Neem(https://amzn.to/2Ucghp3) : Lost weight quicker. Nuclear bomb for blood sugars. I was constantly chugging apple juice and eating fruit snacks to keep my blood sugar up. Started waking up at 5am and unable to get back to sleep. Was good at first. Puffed up muscles, cleared my skin. As time went on, I got less and less sleep. Couldn’t fall asleep, couldn’t stay asleep. Had some nights I slept 2 hours. Started to feel strung out, tired, lack of sleep drunk. Brain felt like it had too much MSG. After stopping Neem, the effects stayed. I am never ******* taking this ***t again. It has been weeks since stopping and I am still struggling with this a bit. Avoid for me.

•Mutaflor(Mutaflor): Usually improves ability to sleep in (like a teenager!). First couple days gives gas and loose stool. Lowers blood sugars so better to take in the morning. Gives a serotonin feeling to my brain if I take a lot of it.

•Lactobacillus Reuteri (https://amzn.to/3alLrj6) : Did not feel anything. I noticed the one I bought was super low dose, and shipped without an ice pack (heat sensitive). May try again with a different brand.

•Turmeric(https://amzn.to/3dlCzMo) : Didn’t notice much

•Boswellia (https://amzn.to/2xigyOg) : I ended up using this for most of the protocol. It lowered the symptoms of insomnia for the antibiotics and a bit for Neem. Really grew to like Boswellia.

•Systemic Enzymes(https://amzn.to/2J3SsZU and https://amzn.to/394vM6w) : I tried Natto, Serra, and Lumbrokinase. Natto and Serra really did not do much but oh my god I love Lumbrokinase. Gave that empty flat stomach feeling you get when you fast, but I was eating. Cleared my mind. I take 6 pills per day, 2 before each meal. I know I was supposed to rotate but I loved it so much I just stayed on it.

•NAC and EDTA: These seemed to riskiest part of the protocol and I stayed away. NAC also contraindicated from one of my microbiome tests.

Other notes from protocol:

•Any substance that did me good, felt like crap the first day or two. Usually emotional, anxiety, sleep problems. The one substance that seriously did me wrong was Neem. It felt good the first few days, and slowly became a nightmare. I have noticed this pattern with other substances I take. If it feels good right away, usually not a good sign…at least in this microbiome world.

•After the Neem, I did not do anything for a week or two and the insulin results stuck. I didnt need more insulin. That sometimes happens if you take something hormonal. Meaning I would need less insulin while on the hormone (better metabolism?) then after going off would need more insulin again (nope)

•did not try the wormwood, olive leaf, or monolaurin. I have done all three before and they have various effects.

•Yeast seemed to be a problem in two instances. The hand rash and athletes foot. When I do another pass. I may add in a week of oregano oil and caprilic acid.

Confounding Factors:

These factors played a role in all this, but not sure to what extent

•My regular diet in December was meat, potatoes/rice, and a little refried beans each meal

My diet shifted in January to

breakfast: Rice and green beans
Lunch: meat and green beans
Dinner: Rice and green beans/broccoli/cauliflower

So three meals of meat a day down to one. That is a confounding factor that may muddy the results of the protocol itself.

•I have been nebulizing 100mg of glutathione everyday for 1 year +

•I started nicotine patches in November

•In February I started using a heat lamp daily

•I went off thyroid in late Jan/early Feb

•I took Pepcid for a month in Jan

•Stopped taking daily betaine HCL in December

In conclusion:

While this has been very rocky at times, especially with insomnia, it is a massive success.

When I first started the Peat life, I was crashing from too much endurance exercise and job burnout. I was scarfing down ice cream and orange juice like mad.

My insulin needs sky rocketed (50 units of long term insulin a day!) and I gained 50 pounds. That was 5-6 years ago. I have tried a myriad of ways to get my metabolism rolling and lose weight without dieting to no success.

Finally, I am on the path to losing weight, eating as much sugar as I want, and being able to exercise again.

Focusing on shifting the microbiome seems to give permanent results. Ray Peat is right about keeping gut bacteria down...but it's not just an important aspect...it may be the most crucial part of his writings

By tinkering with this protocol, I can assure sleep, energy, and less insulin needs.

In addition, by not taking any substance for longer than a couple weeks, I don't develop tolerance or get bad side effects.

Other than the antibiotics, EDTA, and NAC, this protocol is very low risk. Any mineral/vitamin imbalances you may get from long term use of a substance is not a factor.

I hope you enjoyed this post. I put a lot of work and note taking into this. (full disclosure, if you get value from this post, links above are affiliate).

I will do a podcast on this in a few weeks if you are a better listener then reader, like me. Thanks for reading and big props to Ken for originally creating this
Great post, thanks for sharing.
 

Tarmander

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,509
Thanks for sharing. What are your thoughts on the low va diet now? Why do you include broccoli in your diet?
I am still doing low A most of the time, but have lightened up my restrictions. I do broccoli once a week maybe and some green beans as well. restless leg at night is my tell if I am getting too much VA.
 

Bart1

Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
347
@Tarmander Awesome post, thank you so much for this information. I was also reading your other post about the stool test you have done. Do you think to get a good stool test one need to stop supplements for a while ? Do they interfere ?
 

Tarmander

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,509
@Tarmander Awesome post, thank you so much for this information. I was also reading your other post about the stool test you have done. Do you think to get a good stool test one need to stop supplements for a while ? Do they interfere ?
Your microbiome is constantly in flux, so supplements definitely will alter your test. Really depends on what is working for you and what you plan to take long term. Each stool test is a jumping off point where you get some recommendations, implement them for a month or two, and then test again where the recommendations will change.

The best way to do it is to continually do microbiome tests over a period of time to get a proper picture of what is going on, and how things are affecting it. This means record keeping of the supplements you take.

After you get your first test done with thyrve, they offer you bulk testing kits where you can buy 3 for around 80$ each ( using the code THEGUTCLUB20). Seems that is the best priced option at the moment.
 

Bart1

Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
347
Your microbiome is constantly in flux, so supplements definitely will alter your test. Really depends on what is working for you and what you plan to take long term. Each stool test is a jumping off point where you get some recommendations, implement them for a month or two, and then test again where the recommendations will change.

The best way to do it is to continually do microbiome tests over a period of time to get a proper picture of what is going on, and how things are affecting it. This means record keeping of the supplements you take.

After you get your first test done with thyrve, they offer you bulk testing kits where you can buy 3 for around 80$ each ( using the code THEGUTCLUB20). Seems that is the best priced option at the moment.
Thanks! I'm going to try it.

One other question, I could not find it on his site in the demo part. After you upload the data from the stool test to his site, you'll get recommendations. When I click on them, I can't seem to get a specific dosage. Is it just experimentation to see how much you need to relieve some symptoms? How do you approach the recommendations. Do you try them each in isolation or do a combination of a couple together ?

thanks again for this great information!
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
8,421
I’ve sort of done this. I did white chocolate in high amounts, and got gut problems.

I was very badly constipated.

I took Mutaflor several months. Resolved the constipation largely.

Then I was taking azithromycin, and doxycycline, and then levoquin.

Now my gut health seems good.

I think taking an antibiotic, then Mutaflor, perhaps something else, etc., may be a sound strategy.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
P Bacteriophages gave me leaky gut... Digestion 36
sevenzy Nebulizing peroxide for gut health and treating lab virus Digestion 2
TypicalJock How am I supposed to heal gut? Ask For Help or Advice 9
Mauritio Sterile gut leads to lower anxiety, serotonin , and TPH-levels + some bacteria don't increase serotonin Articles & Scientific Studies 4
A Article - Melanoma patients respond to immunotherapy after changes to gut microbiome Articles & Scientific Studies 0
B Borderline Hypothyroid, Histamine Intolerance? Leaky Gut? Hydrogen Sulfide SIBO?? Need Help Digestion, Gut Flora 31
R Not just the gut microbiome, also the gut mycobiome! 0.1% of microbes in gut are fungi! Scientific Studies 0
R Antidepressant-Like Effects of Cistanche Extract on Chronic Unpredictable Stress Rats Through Restoration of Gut Microbiota Homeostasis Scientific Studies 1
R Ginger dose dependantly increases MAO-A, SERT and lowers Tryptophan hydroxylase 1 & 2 in gut and brainstem Spices 14
Hans Is aspirin really harmful to the gut (bleeding risk)? Articles & Scientific Studies 27
C Gut/sleep/hormones/skin chaos despite months on RP suggestions- what am I missing? Female Issues 37
GorillaHead The gut is full of DHT! Whats the connection to hair? Digestion 24
TheBeard Selectively targeting the gut with antibiotics Digestion 23
Hans Cocoa powder for gut health Scientific Studies 38
Hans Salicylic acid might be good for the gut health and function Scientific Studies 19
Lokzo Cordyceps Reduces Leaky Gut - PUBMED Scientific Studies 12
B What could be the cause of anxious feeling in the gut? Digestion 16
Sam321 Megasporebiotic vs Florassist to repair gut after Penecillin overuse Ask For Help or Advice 0
Brandin advice on my stupid plan to fix my gut. Ask For Help or Advice 44
Twohandsondeck A gut repair equation - Amino acids > polyphenols > fiber Digestion, Gut Flora 22
Hgreen56 Anti-Peat Study reveals how sugars wipe out important bacteria in gut Debate - Anti-Peat 16
Lokzo Glycine Reduces NAFLD by modulating fatty acid oxidation, glutathione synthesis, and the gut microbiome - 2020 Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 21
DANIEL Anti-Peat If There's Bacteria in Human Breastmilk, Why Do Haidut and Peat Push the Sterile Gut Nonsense? Debate - Anti-Peat 71
C Does Flowers Of Sulphur Only Benefit The Gut? Ask For Help or Advice 14
Mauritio Autism Study Suggests Connection Between Repetitive Behaviors And Gut Problems Scientific Studies 9
Ras Glycine Ameliorates NAFLD By Modulating FAO, Glutathione Synthesis, And The Gut Microbiome Amino Acids 0
Mito Specific Bacterium In The Gut Linked To Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) Articles & Scientific Studies 0
G Lying On My Back Causes Irritation In The Gut? Digestion 1
H Link Between Alzheimer's Disease And Gut Microbiota Is Confirmed Alzheimer's 1
Twohandsondeck Psoriasis Solved: Raw Starch Gut Rehab (pics) Testimonials 168
D Nausea, Gut Cramping, Hot Flashes/then Chills Ask For Help or Advice 9
E β-glucan Attenuates Cognitive Impairment Via The Gut-brain Axis In Diet-induced Obese Mice [10- 2020 Scientific Studies 0
Happycat Starches Have Messed Up My Gut Digestion 5
Hans The Gut-Hair Loss Connection: Fix The Gut To Stop Hair Loss Articles & Scientific Studies 17
Hans Gut-Thyroid Connection: How To Fix Your Thyroid Through Your Gut Articles & Scientific Studies 54
haidut Parkinson Disease (PD) May Begin In The Gut Scientific Studies 0
C What To Do When Your Gut Bacteria Love Protein Digestion 20
Hans How To Modulate The Gut Apart From The Diet Articles & Scientific Studies 0
fever257 Please Help: Endotoxin Overload & Post-parasite Gut Disaster Digestion, Gut Flora 24
Hans The One Gut Bacterium You Have To Boost (and Here’s How) Articles & Scientific Studies 45
TheBeard Ox Bile As A Gut Desinfectant? Digestion 97
N Lower Levels Of Endotoxins And Better Gut Permeability In Centenarians VS Young People Articles & Scientific Studies 0
J Can Fiber Be Fully/Largely Digested By Gut Bacteria? Digestion 3
RealNeat Gut Bacteria Eat Colon Lining When Starved For Fiber Health 4
J Colostrum Capsules For Gut Problems Digestion 4
J Tests To Determine If You Have SIBO And Other Gut Issues? Digestion 5
haidut Stress (cortisol) Can Cause ANY Autoimmune Condition By Disrupting Gut Barrier Scientific Studies 0
johnwester130 Presenting A New Theory For Baldness - Gut Bacteria Hair & Nails 37
J Does Your Gut Get Used To Milk? Working Through Milk Issues 20
Hans Cardamom Could Be Great For The Gut Scientific Studies 34

Similar threads

Top