High Dose Progesterone Increasing My Insulin Resistance?

[freyasam]

I had an ovarian cyst years ago. The doctor gave me a shot of progesterone and the cyst ruptured/went away in a few days. He said if the shot didn't work I'd have to have surgery. But it worked.

The fat around your waist sounds like estrogen dominance.

Although I read this thread through, I don't know your history regarding thyroid supplementation. I think thyroid is key. I've been through a difficult time because I was on Armour thyroid and they changed their formula so it doesn't work. Now I take NP Thyroid by Acella which does work. There is a discussion on the different brands of thyroid here: Options for Thyroid Treatment - Stop The Thyroid Madness

Peat has talked about needing to do progesterone 2 weeks on then 2 weeks off with your cycle, otherwise your liver will just almost instantly remove it. The 2 weeks off somehow resets your liver so it doesn't remove the progesterone so quickly. This was discussed on an Herb Doctors show, maybe this one: http://www.westernbotanicalmedicine.com/audio/Hormones, HRT, Estrogen and Metabolism.mp3 unless it's this one: http://www.westernbotanicalmedicine.com/audio/2018 Female Hormones Progesterone Q&A Jan 2018.mp3

I use a mix of bio-identical progesterone and vitamin E that I get the compounding pharmacy to make for me. It is a compounded prescription. It's raised my progesterone level on my blood work to a good range. Progest-E didn't work for me; I needed a higher dose.

Thanks for the info. I listened to both interviews, and neither one addressed the issue of when to dose progesterone all through the month or not. Do you have an idea of any other interviews that might mention this?

 

[wintagal]

@jitsmonkey thanks again

Unfortunately, I have done multiple trials of Progest E, Health Natura progesterone, and Ona's progesterone. The latter two have no effect. Progest-e always creates these symptoms for me.

I just saw this thread from 2015. I was worried back then that Progest-e was contributing to my weight gain and making me feel worse. And I was taking 400 mg of it back then!
Determining "estrogen dominance?" Maybe PE is making me worse!

I have written Peat a few times over the years. He always tells me to take thyroid. My body does not tolerate any type of thyroid whatsoever, no matter how many times and how many ways or how small of a crumb I take when I try it. Horrible, horrible anxiety response that increases the longer I take it.

Most of Peat's ideas just don't work for me. But nothing else does either. I guess I just go through cycles where I have exhausted every other option and try to make his stuff work for me again. Then I ran run into this brick wall again.

@ frevasam:
Regarding your intolerance of thyroid - when I first was prescribed thyroid my health fell completely apart - frozen shoulder, fatigue, low immunity and frequent flu and colds, inability to tolerate any stress, and very fast weight gain. Then, when the other shoulder started to freeze, I stopped believing doctors and physical therapists. Now, after 10 years and extensive research both online and with thyroid meds and supplements, I think the problem was low cortisol. I could not tolerate any thyroid meds until I got supplemental cortisol. Even so, I continue to have problems converting T4 into rT3. I just spent 2 weeks in December in bed after the flu, and began to think I had CFS due to the crushing fatigue. Very scary - how hard your situation must be.
I also have had horrible anxiety responses to T3 - it was unbearable. I can tolerate small doses now, however.
In any event, you could try some cortef (bioidentical) or prednisone (must be converted by liver) and see if it raises your body temps and allows you to take some thyroid. If so, perhaps further testing is in order. A short one-week trial of a daily dose below 10 mg of prednisone is not dangerous; long term use is and must be monitored by a doctor.
I wish you the very best.

 

[freyasam]

@ frevasam:
Regarding your intolerance of thyroid - when I first was prescribed thyroid my health fell completely apart - frozen shoulder, fatigue, low immunity and frequent flu and colds, inability to tolerate any stress, and very fast weight gain. Then, when the other shoulder started to freeze, I stopped believing doctors and physical therapists. Now, after 10 years and extensive research both online and with thyroid meds and supplements, I think the problem was low cortisol. I could not tolerate any thyroid meds until I got supplemental cortisol. Even so, I continue to have problems converting T4 into rT3. I just spent 2 weeks in December in bed after the flu, and began to think I had CFS due to the crushing fatigue. Very scary - how hard your situation must be.
I also have had horrible anxiety responses to T3 - it was unbearable. I can tolerate small doses now, however.
In any event, you could try some cortef (bioidentical) or prednisone (must be converted by liver) and see if it raises your body temps and allows you to take some thyroid. If so, perhaps further testing is in order. A short one-week trial of a daily dose below 10 mg of prednisone is not dangerous; long term use is and must be monitored by a doctor.
I wish you the very best.

Thank you.

 

[ddjd]

I have a question about progesterone seemingly increasing my insulin resistance. But first, some background.

Recently I did an MRI which found large ovarian cysts. The largest was 7.6 cm, and it may need surgical removal. I have an ultrasound in three weeks to see if the cysts have changed in size. I'm late 30s and still menstruating (although my "periods" are super light and so spaced out I can go months without one).

For the past two weeks, I have increased my progesterone dose to see if I could shrink the cysts. I'm taking a total of 300 to 400 mg of oral progesterone a day, which is a high dose. 200 mg of that is prescribed progesterone (yes, it's really progesterone and not progestin); the other 100 to 200 mg is Progest-e.

Before this new regimen, I was taking only 200 mg of progesterone, and not super consistently. Clearly that wasn't enough to prevent the cysts from developing.

The past few days, my waist measurement has gone up an inch, but my weight has stayed the same. I am already overweight and carry most of that fat in my belly. Also, I've had an increase in Acanthosis nigricans (underarm discoloration). Both of these symptoms suggest an increase in insulin resistance.

(In other words, the 100 to 200 mg progest-e is what is new. Apparently the progest-e is making me gain fat on my stomach and acanthosis nigricans.)

Ray Peat says that progesterone will eliminate estrogen, increase sensitivity to insulin, and shrink ovarian cysts. But a look at Google scholar will bring up lots of studies claiming that progesterone DECREASES insulin sensitivity.

I know people here say that progesterone can increase estrogen in the beginning, but at such a high dose of 300 to 400 mg a day, I would think that it wouldn't have this effect.

I have been following his ideas for over four years now. Diet is on point. Plenty of protein, plenty of carbs. I've tinkered with diet a lot, there's not much more I can do to improve this area. My vitamin D levels are good, I get anti-inflammatory protein. I take aspirin, vitamin K, vitamin E. I eat liver, get sun and red light. I am on top of all things Peaty.

Exercise is not possible for me at this time. I have severe CFS, and it's a struggle just to cook for myself.

Has anyone else had an increase in stomach fat or insulin resistance from taking progesterone? Any ideas? Thank you.

Edit to add:

Just to sum up --

Progest-e is responsible for the inch of fat gained on my stomach, the underarm discoloration indicating insulin problems, and the increased facial flushing. I know because it's the only change I've made.

Progest-e has caused these issues in the past. Even at doses of up to 400 mg / day. I stopped the PE, problems went away. Other brands of progesterone have no effect.

Prometrium is not responsible for these issues, because I didn't have them on prometrium only. But yes, I will stop it to see what happens.

I have 3 weeks before my ultrasound to try to shrink ovarian cysts and avoid surgery.

ive had the exact same experience but taking smaller doses of progesterone from health natura. i have no doubt that the core reason is insulin resistance
this is a thread i set up last year because i noticed a lot of peaty supplements seem to have this effect of higher cortisol and estrogenic symptomns, but my opinion now is its all caused by hyperinsulinemia now. check out podcasts/books from jason fung, its quite interesting.
now. Anyone Else Getting Increased Estrogen From T3/ASPIRIN/CYPRO/PROGESTERONE


https://peterattiamd.com/jasonfung/

 

[Progesterone]

ive had the exact same experience but taking smaller doses of progesterone from health natura. i have no doubt that the core reason is insulin resistance
this is a thread i set up last year because i noticed a lot of peaty supplements seem to have this effect of higher cortisol and estrogenic symptomns, but my opinion now is its all caused by hyperinsulinemia now. check out podcasts/books from jason fung, its quite interesting.
now. Anyone Else Getting Increased Estrogen From T3/ASPIRIN/CYPRO/PROGESTERONE


https://peterattiamd.com/jasonfung/

I get the facial flushing from Progesterone too.... yikes.

@freyasam do you find the progesterone is positive or negative for scalp hair?

 

[lampofred]

My guess is that it's not increasing insulin resistance but unmasking insulin resistance that was already there by turning off fat oxidation and switching your body over to oxidizing sugar.

 

[Progesterone]

@jitsmonkey thanks again

Unfortunately, I have done multiple trials of Progest E, Health Natura progesterone, and Ona's progesterone. The latter two have no effect. Progest-e always creates these symptoms for me.

I just saw this thread from 2015. I was worried back then that Progest-e was contributing to my weight gain and making me feel worse. And I was taking 400 mg of it back then!
Determining "estrogen dominance?" Maybe PE is making me worse!

I have written Peat a few times over the years. He always tells me to take thyroid. My body does not tolerate any type of thyroid whatsoever, no matter how many times and how many ways or how small of a crumb I take when I try it. Horrible, horrible anxiety response that increases the longer I take it.

Most of Peat's ideas just don't work for me. But nothing else does either. I guess I just go through cycles where I have exhausted every other option and try to make his stuff work for me again. Then I ran run into this brick wall again.

WAIT.. so, Ona's did not do the facial flushing for you??? Correct?

BTW, what were your thoughts on Ona's progesterone? I am using currently.

The oil with a lot of vit e, and the spray on with no vit e, just coconut oil.

I actually swallow 100mg of the coconut oil one, in veggie capsule, and I apply drops of the vit e prog on my hairline.

 

[freyasam]

Ona's did nothing for me, good or bad.

I really don't like progest-e personally, upsets my stomach. But I recommend taking it if you can. I haven't found any progesterone I really like.

I've been able to tolerate more thyroid lately, knock on wood, and that has decreased facial flushing. Unfortunately the thyroid hasn't so far helped with overweight or insulin resistance, though. I've been at 2 grains NDT for 3 months.

 

[Progesterone]

Ona's did nothing for me, good or bad.

I really don't like progest-e personally, upsets my stomach. But I recommend taking it if you can. I haven't found any progesterone I really like.

I've been able to tolerate more thyroid lately, knock on wood, and that has decreased facial flushing. Unfortunately the thyroid hasn't so far helped with overweight or insulin resistance, though. I've been at 2 grains NDT for 3 months.

Which version of Ona's did you try?

Their prog oil makes me superrrr sleepy..

 

[HUF]

Ona's did nothing for me, good or bad.

I really don't like progest-e personally, upsets my stomach. But I recommend taking it if you can. I haven't found any progesterone I really like.

I've been able to tolerate more thyroid lately, knock on wood, and that has decreased facial flushing. Unfortunately the thyroid hasn't so far helped with overweight or insulin resistance, though. I've been at 2 grains NDT for 3 months.

Hi @freyasam I had problems with insulin resistance coming from the usual low carb, IF, keto, paleo diets etc. For a time there I had vitamin B1 daily to help shuttle sugar into the cells and ease the transition from fat oxidation to glucose oxidation. If you search for vitamin B1 haidut has some info on it here on the forums. You have probably tried this before though as I haven't read all your posts. I'm not a scientist but I based the fact that I'd improved my insulin sensitivity as after I did B1 for a while I stopped getting that insulin surge feeling I used to get when eating sugar initially, no it is calming. Also my wife had an ovary scan and had cysts on her ovaries probably not as big bit she just went on thyroid for a number of years and ate peat style and the cysts are gone now she also doesn't have lumpy breasts etc. We ran in to trouble over the years using too many supplements but now just stick to diet and thyroid and it's alot better.

Upping protein for satiety is good if your not getting enough also.

I hope you find something that helps

 

[Peatness]

I think it's possible to over do progesterone.

High Progesterone Symptoms in Women (The complete list)

Dizziness, weight gain, water retention... These are just some high progesterone symptoms. If you think you are experiencing issues with progesterone you need to make sure you understand what causes high progesterone, and also how

www.restartmed.com

8 High Progesterone Symptoms in Women

If you’re experiencing one or more of these high progesterone symptoms, it may be time to speak to your medical provider — learn more here

tctmed.com

 

[June]

Both these symptoms also suggests high cortisol and estrogen. Belly fat is cortisol fat and estrogen dominance.

What steps are you taking to improve liver detoxification pathways?

If you have a high % fat you will be producing loads of estrogen. How was estrogen tested? Which part of your cycle? If low in the blood, you can still have high in the cell.

Are you doing the raw carrot to help with efficient excretion of hormones? Remember, they can be deconjugated and make their way back to the liver again.

Acanthosis Nigricans | International Journal of Clinical & Medical Images



Are you eating sufficient calories and good quality proteins like lamb, beef and oysters.

Usually, overweight individuals are frightened to eat sufficient calories. Females especially need to maintain a cycle which requires an investment in providing the body with energy by eating regularly meals with sufficient calories.

You say you are eating plenty of carbs. What sort of carbs are you eating and how much?

If you are in your late 30s, you may be trying to juggling a demanding career, family obligations - its a ***t life for females with little time for self care. The toll on our health is enormous.

There is no magic pill or hormone that can wipe out this kind of stress. Our fertility suffers and we lose sight of the person we always dreamed of becoming. We no longer recognise ourselves.

From someone who has been there, seize control of your life. You need to stop and reassess what is not right in your life and start freeing up time for self care.

If you live a crazy stressful lifestyle, where meals are all over the place, bad sleep habits, wrong type of exercise with insufficient calories, then cortisol is going to be sky high. Unless you burn yourself out. If you have CFS, then you probably in the "give up" state. The body slowing metabolism in an attempt to increase nutrient reserves.

This is the most likely reason why you are intolerant to thyroid hormone at this point in time. However, thyroid will help to clear cortisol. You need to furnish the body with nourishing foods to support all that happening in your body and life.

Do you have labs on thyroid hormones, including RT3? If you are hypothyroid, then you will require more magnesium and calcium is require to increase metabolism and to support your cycle. People always underestimate how much food the body needs.

I remember being intolerant to progesterone and thyroid. Pg made me go crazy and pregnenolone made me feel invincible but gave me a fat face.

When you are estrogen dominant and high cortisol - it is the most scariest and an absolute roller coaster ride.

The fact you are going months without a period points to insufficient energy and perhaps you are not eating to meet your needs or your lifestyle is rapidly depleting you of valuable nutrients.

You say you are on point. How do you know you are meeting your requirements for minerals and nutrients. What about malabsorption issues?

How did progesterone make you go crazy? Curious how much were you taking.

 

[TNT]

If you have a high % fat you will be producing loads of estrogen. How was estrogen tested? Which part of your cycle? If low in the blood, you can still have high in the cell.

@Ella , how can we measure estrogen in the cells?